Date   

Re: Model: SRLX 6310

brianleppert@att.net
 

From Carroll Schmitt collection

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: Model: SRLX 6310

 

I notice it’s derailed.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2021 at 1:14 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Model: SRLX 6310

 

Model: SRLX 6310

I photographed this N scale model of a Swift refrigerator car on the recent Pacific Southwest Region/NMRA Convention layout tour in Orange County, CA.

The car is decorated in an obvious World War II patriotic paint scheme.

My question is, is this an authentic paint scheme or just whimsical? Perhaps adapted from a prototype paint scheme applied to a different car?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Model: SRLX 6310

Bruce Smith
 

Bob,


The paint scheme is prototypical and was just offered in the latest run of the Rapido General America 37’  reefer. Rapido offered two numbers, 6307, and 6310.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, September 13, 2021 at 1:15 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Model: SRLX 6310

 

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Model: SRLX 6310

I photographed this N scale model of a Swift refrigerator car on the recent Pacific Southwest Region/NMRA Convention layout tour in Orange County, CA.

The car is decorated in an obvious World War II patriotic paint scheme.

My question is, is this an authentic paint scheme or just whimsical? Perhaps adapted from a prototype paint scheme applied to a different car?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Model: SRLX 6310

Bob Chaparro
 

Model: SRLX 6310

I photographed this N scale model of a Swift refrigerator car on the recent Pacific Southwest Region/NMRA Convention layout tour in Orange County, CA.

The car is decorated in an obvious World War II patriotic paint scheme.

My question is, is this an authentic paint scheme or just whimsical? Perhaps adapted from a prototype paint scheme applied to a different car?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Fertilizer by any other name would smell as sweet (was Manure shipped by rail)

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Sep 13, 2021, at 05:11, Robert G P <bobgp5109@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello group,
[in re: rail shipment of "steersch", as a family friend called it]

I'm more familiar with the shipment of sugar beet beet pulp to feedlot, whereat the combined aromas of the two organic waste products would mingle in strange and wondrous ways. The operations which I witnessed as a child were short-haul, from a local sugar mill to nearby feedlots, and no more recently than the early 1950s.

[Woodland, CA, Spreckels, where Dad was a foreman, to no farther than North Sacramento]
--
Artie the Hinged Jaw
Retired AFU Game Warden


Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Manure shipped by rail

Alex Huff
 

Since 1926 (I looked it up) the city of Milwaukee has sold dried sewage sludge under the brand name Milorganite. Once a year, a golf course north of Grand Rapids, MI would receive a 40' boxcar of bagged Milorganite.  It was touted as a source of slow release nitrogen.  The car was spotted on a team track in Rockford, MI.  There was no odor.  The name is derived from Milwaukee Organic Nitrogen.   


Re: Manure shipped by rail

Andy Laurent
 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 05:11 AM, Robert G P wrote:
Hello group, 
 
I model the midwest and wanted some extra uses for my gons and hoppers so It was my conjecture that "bulk" manure loads might be an accurate bill for them? 
 
-Bob
Bob, I have evidence of 4 carloads of bulk manure being shipped in gondolas from Union Stock Yards in Chicago, IL to an orchard company in Sturgeon Bay, WI.  The shipment was made in one block (4 cars moving together) and was delivered to a team track in downtown Sturgeon Bay (in early summer).  The cars were unloaded by hand into trucks.  The shipment was NOT repeated!

Andy L.
Madison, WI


Re: Manure shipped by rail

Douglas Harding
 

Gons were used for shipping manure, not aware of hoppers being used in this service. It was also bagged, which could be shipped on a flatcar or in a boxcar. In the Midwest most often it was coming from large stockyards and packing plants. Usually shipped to rural areas where it was sold to farmers for applying to their fields for fertilizer, esp in the days before commercial fertilizer. It was also bagged and shipped for gardens. Attached are a few photos and documents related to shipping manure by rail. Team tracks or a remote siding could be used for unloading. Workers with shovels and pitchforks were the norm. Clamshell buckets on a crane were used at large operations. Loading of gons was similar to coal, wagons and carts dumping from an elevated ramp. Or the clamshell bucket and crane.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert G P
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 7:11 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Manure shipped by rail

 

Hello group, 

 

I model the midwest and wanted some extra uses for my gons and hoppers so It was my conjecture that "bulk" manure loads might be an accurate bill for them? 

 

Lets say the manure is traveling to a feed/seed shop (like heater coal would to a dealer) to be sold in smaller portions to folks with gardens or to larger farming operations. I suppose in the latter case a farmer may have his own hopper(s) full and spotted on a team track for unloading. 

 

To all those with the knowledge - is any of this realistic? Have you heard of anything like this? Sounds like a good way to add in some extra operations and maybe even have fun making sure the cars aren't too close to the caboose!

 

-Bob


Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Manure shipped by rail

Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

I don't think that would be realistic. First, manure needs to be composted before it can be used in gardens. It is too "hot" and full of hay seeds. That's fine to spread on the fields, but a disaster to spread on a garden. Second, that's a lot of manure! Third, a local operation would get manure locally. The dairy farm up the street or the local livery stable (if such still existed in your time frame). One of the only operations that I know of that actively shipped manure was from the horse farms and race tracks of the middle Atlantic region to the mushroom farms in Kennet Square PA. That was (and remains) a high volume business, with large composting operations, and many mushroom houses concentrated locally. 

The gondolas used for manure were pretty much embargoed from other uses and thus the PRR used old composite GR and GRA class cars. When the manure/hay mix spontaneously combusted, as it was want to do, especially in the summer months, local fire departments would be called to a grade crossing to put out the burning car, but they quickly started refusing to come to these calls, resulting ultimately in the embargoing of the load on the railroad.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Robert G P <bobgp5109@...>
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 7:11 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Manure shipped by rail
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Hello group, 

I model the midwest and wanted some extra uses for my gons and hoppers so It was my conjecture that "bulk" manure loads might be an accurate bill for them? 

Lets say the manure is traveling to a feed/seed shop (like heater coal would to a dealer) to be sold in smaller portions to folks with gardens or to larger farming operations. I suppose in the latter case a farmer may have his own hopper(s) full and spotted on a team track for unloading. 

To all those with the knowledge - is any of this realistic? Have you heard of anything like this? Sounds like a good way to add in some extra operations and maybe even have fun making sure the cars aren't too close to the caboose!

-Bob


Manure shipped by rail

Robert G P
 

Hello group, 

I model the midwest and wanted some extra uses for my gons and hoppers so It was my conjecture that "bulk" manure loads might be an accurate bill for them? 

Lets say the manure is traveling to a feed/seed shop (like heater coal would to a dealer) to be sold in smaller portions to folks with gardens or to larger farming operations. I suppose in the latter case a farmer may have his own hopper(s) full and spotted on a team track for unloading. 

To all those with the knowledge - is any of this realistic? Have you heard of anything like this? Sounds like a good way to add in some extra operations and maybe even have fun making sure the cars aren't too close to the caboose!

-Bob


Re: Prototype Discoveries

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

Rather, these were state laws, passed by state legislatures and signed into law by state governors and thus they truly OUTLAWED these types of cabins (no "quotes" needed), making their use against the law. As in go to jail or pay really big fines if you don't fix the problem. 

Like many states, California outlawed bobbers early in the 20th century, and SP quickly complied. In the early 1960s, for another example, the state Public Utilities Commission (descendant of the former Railroad Commission) imposed a rule that cabooses had to have retention toilet facilities (and outlawed many minor features common on older cabooses). SP had a lot of older wood cabooses that they were not about to spend the money to equip with toilets, so they largely disappeared quickly — except, again, for one of those exceptions for local train use.

Tony Thompson



Prototype Discoveries

Bruce Smith
 

And I might add that these laws, in some states, exempted some uses of bobber style cabooses, allowing their continued use for locals, and yard jobs. As a consequence, the PRR had class ND bobbers on the roster into the 1960s!

-Bruce


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2021 5:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Prototype Discoveries
 
Paul,

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my post earlier today, but the outlawing of bobber cabin cars has nothing to do with interchange. Indeed it was not regulated by the authorities that typically regulated interchange, the AAR/ARA.

Rather, these were state laws, passed by state legislatures and signed into law by state governors and thus they truly OUTLAWED these types of cabins (no "quotes" needed), making their use against the law. As in go to jail or pay really big fines if you don't fix the problem. 

The genesis of these laws appears to be lobbying by the brotherhoods for safer working conditions. Regulating interstate commerce is obviously a tricky legal situation, but states took the position, and it was affirmed in the courts, that they had the right to regulate working conditions within their boundaries. The challenge for the railroads was to then have cabin car designs that met all state laws where the affected railroad operated. For the PRR, this was the genesis of their first all-steel cabin, the N5 as well as a massive rebuilding program that converted bobbers into wood cabin car classes N6A and N6B (with steel underframes, trucks, and sufficient length to be legal).

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Paul Catapano <pc66ot@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2021 10:20 AM
To: Steam Era Freight Cars <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Prototype Discoveries
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Where four wheeled Bobbers “outlawed”, outlawed from interchange, or was there a series of different laws and regulations beginning and ending at political boundaries?


Paul Catapano
Winchester, VA.






Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Prototype Discoveries

Bruce Smith
 

Paul,

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my post earlier today, but the outlawing of bobber cabin cars has nothing to do with interchange. Indeed it was not regulated by the authorities that typically regulated interchange, the AAR/ARA.

Rather, these were state laws, passed by state legislatures and signed into law by state governors and thus they truly OUTLAWED these types of cabins (no "quotes" needed), making their use against the law. As in go to jail or pay really big fines if you don't fix the problem. 

The genesis of these laws appears to be lobbying by the brotherhoods for safer working conditions. Regulating interstate commerce is obviously a tricky legal situation, but states took the position, and it was affirmed in the courts, that they had the right to regulate working conditions within their boundaries. The challenge for the railroads was to then have cabin car designs that met all state laws where the affected railroad operated. For the PRR, this was the genesis of their first all-steel cabin, the N5 as well as a massive rebuilding program that converted bobbers into wood cabin car classes N6A and N6B (with steel underframes, trucks, and sufficient length to be legal).

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Paul Catapano <pc66ot@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2021 10:20 AM
To: Steam Era Freight Cars <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Prototype Discoveries
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Where four wheeled Bobbers “outlawed”, outlawed from interchange, or was there a series of different laws and regulations beginning and ending at political boundaries?


Paul Catapano
Winchester, VA.






Re: McKR/Union mill gon

mopacfirst
 

Thanks.  Never thought to look at F&C website.  And the Kinkaid collection is slowly starting to show up in my brain as another place on the web that I should probably check first.

You're right about the kit.  

Ron Merrick


Re: Prototype discoveries

Chuck Soule
 

The Northern Pacific built 200 4-wheel cabooses between 1905 and 1907.  They had a 12-ft wheelbase, were 19 feet over the end sills (body length) and 24 feet 2 inches over the coupler pockets.  There is a VERY brief write-up  and an equipment diagram in the NPRHA Mainstreeter V6 No4, Fall of 1987.  It states that they were "banned by legislation soon after they were built" with no specific reference provided for the legislation at issue.  They were all rebuilt into slightly longer  8-wheel cabooses in about 1910.  They were in service for such a short time that virtually no photos of them are known to exist.

Chuck Soule


Re: Prototype Discoveries

Charlie Duckworth
 

Paul
When I was researching my Missouri-Illinois RR book I found that the MR&BT’s bobber cabooses were ‘grandfathered’ under the Missouri RR Commission laws.  Meaning the four wheeled cabooses were outlawed (ie., no future construction or purchases) but those already in service could continue to be used.   As they were retired many were reused by the mining companies served by the railroad as guard shacks.  You asked about interchange and as a ‘general rule’ cabooses weren’t interchanged during the steam era. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: McKR/Union mill gon

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Let me add that there are a couple of nice prototype pictures among the Jim Kinkaid collection at IRM Pullman Library

 

Railroad-U-Z - Pullman-Library (smugmug.com)

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2021 11:15 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] McKR/Union mill gon

 

I built one of these F&C kits. Build notes and photos were posted to my blog in 2013. 

 

F&C promoted this kit as an intro for first time builders. I had built several resin kits by this time and found the instructions lacking even for an experienced modeler. 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


On Sep 12, 2021, at 10:12 AM, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:

I'm building an F&C mill gon, specifically the one with McKeesport Connecting decals, although the kit instructions note that Union and other US Steel roads had identical cars.

The brake gear arrangement seems unusual, in that the reservoir and triple valve are near the A end of the car, and the brake cylinder itself is closer to the A end than the B end, which means that the brake rod from the handbrake to the cylinder is unusually long.  Do I get this right?  The brake levers seem to be in the first bay on the A end side from the car's center, based on the drawing and the molded angle brackets on the side of the centersill.  I think I can just attach the outer ends of the brake levers to the centersill exterior.  The kit's instruction sheet photos don't show much underbody, but the retainer release rod is visible in a couple of photos which I think confirms the location of the triple valve.  This layout is unusual enough that I at first thought the prototype underframe drawing (which has been touched up slightly) was the view from above, but now I realize it's an underneath view, looking up.

These are 70 ton cars, but I'm not seeing any particular HO 70 ton truck jump out at me as the closest.

Comments?

Ron Merrick
having an on-line steel fabricator to receive long products


Re: McKR/Union mill gon

Steve and Barb Hile
 

There is a model underbody view on their webpage at

 

8140.html (fandckits.com)

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2021 10:12 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] McKR/Union mill gon

 

I'm building an F&C mill gon, specifically the one with McKeesport Connecting decals, although the kit instructions note that Union and other US Steel roads had identical cars.

The brake gear arrangement seems unusual, in that the reservoir and triple valve are near the A end of the car, and the brake cylinder itself is closer to the A end than the B end, which means that the brake rod from the handbrake to the cylinder is unusually long.  Do I get this right?  The brake levers seem to be in the first bay on the A end side from the car's center, based on the drawing and the molded angle brackets on the side of the centersill.  I think I can just attach the outer ends of the brake levers to the centersill exterior.  The kit's instruction sheet photos don't show much underbody, but the retainer release rod is visible in a couple of photos which I think confirms the location of the triple valve.  This layout is unusual enough that I at first thought the prototype underframe drawing (which has been touched up slightly) was the view from above, but now I realize it's an underneath view, looking up.

These are 70 ton cars, but I'm not seeing any particular HO 70 ton truck jump out at me as the closest.

Comments?

Ron Merrick
having an on-line steel fabricator to receive long products


Re: McKR/Union mill gon

Eric Hansmann
 

I built one of these F&C kits. Build notes and photos were posted to my blog in 2013. 

F&C promoted this kit as an intro for first time builders. I had built several resin kits by this time and found the instructions lacking even for an experienced modeler. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Sep 12, 2021, at 10:12 AM, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:

I'm building an F&C mill gon, specifically the one with McKeesport Connecting decals, although the kit instructions note that Union and other US Steel roads had identical cars.

The brake gear arrangement seems unusual, in that the reservoir and triple valve are near the A end of the car, and the brake cylinder itself is closer to the A end than the B end, which means that the brake rod from the handbrake to the cylinder is unusually long.  Do I get this right?  The brake levers seem to be in the first bay on the A end side from the car's center, based on the drawing and the molded angle brackets on the side of the centersill.  I think I can just attach the outer ends of the brake levers to the centersill exterior.  The kit's instruction sheet photos don't show much underbody, but the retainer release rod is visible in a couple of photos which I think confirms the location of the triple valve.  This layout is unusual enough that I at first thought the prototype underframe drawing (which has been touched up slightly) was the view from above, but now I realize it's an underneath view, looking up.

These are 70 ton cars, but I'm not seeing any particular HO 70 ton truck jump out at me as the closest.

Comments?

Ron Merrick
having an on-line steel fabricator to receive long products


Prototype Discoveries

Paul Catapano
 

Where four wheeled Bobbers “outlawed”, outlawed from interchange, or was there a series of different laws and regulations beginning and ending at political boundaries?


Paul Catapano
Winchester, VA.

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