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Re: Model: SRLX 6310
brianleppert@att.net
From Carroll Schmitt collection
Brian Leppert Carson City, NV
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Re: Model: SRLX 6310
I notice it’s derailed.
Thanks!
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Model: SRLX 6310 I photographed this N scale model of a Swift refrigerator car on the recent Pacific Southwest Region/NMRA Convention layout tour in Orange County, CA. The car is decorated in an obvious World War II patriotic paint scheme. My question is, is this an authentic paint scheme or just whimsical? Perhaps adapted from a prototype paint scheme applied to a different car? Thanks. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Model: SRLX 6310
Bob,
Regards, Bruce Smith Auburn, AL
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Model: SRLX 6310 I photographed this N scale model of a Swift refrigerator car on the recent Pacific Southwest Region/NMRA Convention layout tour in Orange County, CA. The car is decorated in an obvious World War II patriotic paint scheme. My question is, is this an authentic paint scheme or just whimsical? Perhaps adapted from a prototype paint scheme applied to a different car? Thanks. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA
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Model: SRLX 6310
Model: SRLX 6310 I photographed this N scale model of a Swift refrigerator car on the recent Pacific Southwest Region/NMRA Convention layout tour in Orange County, CA. The car is decorated in an obvious World War II patriotic paint scheme. My question is, is this an authentic paint scheme or just whimsical? Perhaps adapted from a prototype paint scheme applied to a different car? Thanks. Bob Chaparro Hemet, CA 
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Fertilizer by any other name would smell as sweet (was Manure shipped by rail)
On Sep 13, 2021, at 05:11, Robert G P <bobgp5109@gmail.com> wrote:
[in re: rail shipment of "steersch", as a family friend called it] I'm more familiar with the shipment of sugar beet beet pulp to feedlot, whereat the combined aromas of the two organic waste products would mingle in strange and wondrous ways. The operations which I witnessed as a child were short-haul, from a local sugar mill to nearby feedlots, and no more recently than the early 1950s. [Woodland, CA, Spreckels, where Dad was a foreman, to no farther than North Sacramento] -- Artie the Hinged Jaw Retired AFU Game Warden
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Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Manure shipped by rail
Alex Huff
Since 1926 (I looked it up) the city of Milwaukee has sold dried sewage sludge under the brand name Milorganite. Once a year, a golf course north of Grand Rapids, MI would receive a 40' boxcar of bagged Milorganite. It was touted as a source of slow release nitrogen. The car was spotted on a team track in Rockford, MI. There was no odor. The name is derived from Milwaukee Organic Nitrogen.
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Re: Manure shipped by rail
Andy Laurent
On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 05:11 AM, Robert G P wrote:
Bob, I have evidence of 4 carloads of bulk manure being shipped in gondolas from Union Stock Yards in Chicago, IL to an orchard company in Sturgeon Bay, WI. The shipment was made in one block (4 cars moving together) and was delivered to a team track in downtown Sturgeon Bay (in early summer). The cars were unloaded by hand into trucks. The shipment was NOT repeated! Andy L. Madison, WI
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Re: Manure shipped by rail
Gons were used for shipping manure, not aware of hoppers being used in this service. It was also bagged, which could be shipped on a flatcar or in a boxcar. In the Midwest most often it was coming from large stockyards and packing plants. Usually shipped to rural areas where it was sold to farmers for applying to their fields for fertilizer, esp in the days before commercial fertilizer. It was also bagged and shipped for gardens. Attached are a few photos and documents related to shipping manure by rail. Team tracks or a remote siding could be used for unloading. Workers with shovels and pitchforks were the norm. Clamshell buckets on a crane were used at large operations. Loading of gons was similar to coal, wagons and carts dumping from an elevated ramp. Or the clamshell bucket and crane.
Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert G P
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 7:11 AM To: RealSTMFC@groups.io Subject: [RealSTMFC] Manure shipped by rail
Hello group,
I model the midwest and wanted some extra uses for my gons and hoppers so It was my conjecture that "bulk" manure loads might be an accurate bill for them?
Lets say the manure is traveling to a feed/seed shop (like heater coal would to a dealer) to be sold in smaller portions to folks with gardens or to larger farming operations. I suppose in the latter case a farmer may have his own hopper(s) full and spotted on a team track for unloading.
To all those with the knowledge - is any of this realistic? Have you heard of anything like this? Sounds like a good way to add in some extra operations and maybe even have fun making sure the cars aren't too close to the caboose!
-Bob
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Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Manure shipped by rail
Bob,
I don't think that would be realistic. First, manure needs to be composted before it can be used in gardens. It is too "hot" and full of hay seeds. That's fine to spread on the fields, but a disaster to spread on a garden. Second, that's a lot of manure! Third,
a local operation would get manure locally. The dairy farm up the street or the local livery stable (if such still existed in your time frame). One of the only operations that I know of that actively shipped manure was from the horse farms and race tracks
of the middle Atlantic region to the mushroom farms in Kennet Square PA. That was (and remains) a high volume business, with large composting operations, and many mushroom houses concentrated locally.
The gondolas used for manure were pretty much embargoed from other uses and thus the PRR used old composite GR and GRA class cars. When the manure/hay mix spontaneously combusted, as it was want to do, especially in the summer months, local fire departments
would be called to a grade crossing to put out the burning car, but they quickly started refusing to come to these calls, resulting ultimately in the embargoing of the load on the railroad.
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Robert G P <bobgp5109@...>
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 7:11 AM To: RealSTMFC@groups.io <RealSTMFC@groups.io> Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Manure shipped by rail
Hello group,
I model the midwest and wanted some extra uses for my gons and hoppers so It was my conjecture that "bulk" manure loads might be an accurate bill for them?
Lets say the manure is traveling to a feed/seed shop (like heater coal would to a dealer) to be sold in smaller portions to folks with gardens or to larger farming operations. I suppose in the latter case a farmer may have his own hopper(s) full and spotted
on a team track for unloading.
To all those with the knowledge - is any of this realistic? Have you heard of anything like this? Sounds like a good way to add in some extra operations and maybe even have fun making sure the cars aren't too close to the caboose!
-Bob
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Manure shipped by rail
Robert G P
Hello group, I model the midwest and wanted some extra uses for my gons and hoppers so It was my conjecture that "bulk" manure loads might be an accurate bill for them? Lets say the manure is traveling to a feed/seed shop (like heater coal would to a dealer) to be sold in smaller portions to folks with gardens or to larger farming operations. I suppose in the latter case a farmer may have his own hopper(s) full and spotted on a team track for unloading. To all those with the knowledge - is any of this realistic? Have you heard of anything like this? Sounds like a good way to add in some extra operations and maybe even have fun making sure the cars aren't too close to the caboose! -Bob
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Re: Prototype Discoveries
Tony Thompson
Bruce Smith wrote:
Like many states, California outlawed bobbers early in the 20th century, and SP quickly complied. In the early 1960s, for another example, the state Public Utilities Commission (descendant of the former Railroad Commission) imposed a rule that cabooses had to have retention toilet facilities (and outlawed many minor features common on older cabooses). SP had a lot of older wood cabooses that they were not about to spend the money to equip with toilets, so they largely disappeared quickly — except, again, for one of those exceptions for local train use.
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Prototype Discoveries
And I might add that these laws, in some states, exempted some uses of bobber style cabooses, allowing their continued use for locals, and yard jobs. As a consequence, the PRR had class ND bobbers on the roster into the 1960s!
-Bruce
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bruce Smith <smithbf@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2021 5:04 PM To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> Subject: Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Prototype Discoveries
Paul,
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my post earlier today, but the outlawing of bobber cabin cars has nothing to do with interchange. Indeed it was not regulated by the authorities that typically regulated interchange, the AAR/ARA.
Rather, these were state laws, passed by state legislatures and signed into law by state governors and thus they truly OUTLAWED these types of cabins (no "quotes" needed), making their use against the law. As in go to jail or pay really big fines if
you don't fix the problem.
The genesis of these laws appears to be lobbying by the brotherhoods for safer working conditions. Regulating interstate commerce is obviously a tricky legal situation, but states took the position, and it was affirmed in the courts, that they had the right
to regulate working conditions within their boundaries. The challenge for the railroads was to then have cabin car designs that met all state laws where the affected railroad operated. For the PRR, this was the genesis of their first all-steel cabin, the N5
as well as a massive rebuilding program that converted bobbers into wood cabin car classes N6A and N6B (with steel underframes, trucks, and sufficient length to be legal).
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Paul Catapano <pc66ot@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2021 10:20 AM To: Steam Era Freight Cars <RealSTMFC@groups.io> Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Prototype Discoveries CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Where four wheeled Bobbers “outlawed”, outlawed from interchange, or was there a series of different laws and regulations beginning and ending at political boundaries? Paul Catapano Winchester, VA.
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Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Prototype Discoveries
Paul,
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my post earlier today, but the outlawing of bobber cabin cars has nothing to do with interchange. Indeed it was not regulated by the authorities that typically regulated interchange, the AAR/ARA.
Rather, these were state laws, passed by state legislatures and signed into law by state governors and thus they truly OUTLAWED these types of cabins (no "quotes" needed), making their use against the law. As in go to jail or pay really big fines if
you don't fix the problem.
The genesis of these laws appears to be lobbying by the brotherhoods for safer working conditions. Regulating interstate commerce is obviously a tricky legal situation, but states took the position, and it was affirmed in the courts, that they had the right
to regulate working conditions within their boundaries. The challenge for the railroads was to then have cabin car designs that met all state laws where the affected railroad operated. For the PRR, this was the genesis of their first all-steel cabin, the N5
as well as a massive rebuilding program that converted bobbers into wood cabin car classes N6A and N6B (with steel underframes, trucks, and sufficient length to be legal).
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Paul Catapano <pc66ot@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2021 10:20 AM To: Steam Era Freight Cars <RealSTMFC@groups.io> Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Prototype Discoveries CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Where four wheeled Bobbers “outlawed”, outlawed from interchange, or was there a series of different laws and regulations beginning and ending at political boundaries? Paul Catapano Winchester, VA.
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Re: McKR/Union mill gon
mopacfirst
Thanks. Never thought to look at F&C website. And the Kinkaid collection is slowly starting to show up in my brain as another place on the web that I should probably check first.
You're right about the kit. Ron Merrick
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Re: Prototype discoveries
Chuck Soule
The Northern Pacific built 200 4-wheel cabooses between 1905 and 1907. They had a 12-ft wheelbase, were 19 feet over the end sills (body length) and 24 feet 2 inches over the coupler pockets. There is a VERY brief write-up and an equipment diagram in the NPRHA Mainstreeter V6 No4, Fall of 1987. It states that they were "banned by legislation soon after they were built" with no specific reference provided for the legislation at issue. They were all rebuilt into slightly longer 8-wheel cabooses in about 1910. They were in service for such a short time that virtually no photos of them are known to exist.
Chuck Soule
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Re: Prototype Discoveries
Paul
When I was researching my Missouri-Illinois RR book I found that the MR&BT’s bobber cabooses were ‘grandfathered’ under the Missouri RR Commission laws. Meaning the four wheeled cabooses were outlawed (ie., no future construction or purchases) but those already in service could continue to be used. As they were retired many were reused by the mining companies served by the railroad as guard shacks. You asked about interchange and as a ‘general rule’ cabooses weren’t interchanged during the steam era. -- Charlie Duckworth Omaha, Ne.
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Re: McKR/Union mill gon
Let me add that there are a couple of nice prototype pictures among the Jim Kinkaid collection at IRM Pullman Library
Railroad-U-Z - Pullman-Library (smugmug.com)
Steve Hile
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2021 11:15 AM To: main@realstmfc.groups.io Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] McKR/Union mill gon
I built one of these F&C kits. Build notes and photos were posted to my blog in 2013.
F&C promoted this kit as an intro for first time builders. I had built several resin kits by this time and found the instructions lacking even for an experienced modeler.
Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN
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Re: McKR/Union mill gon
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of mopacfirst
I'm building an F&C mill gon, specifically the one with McKeesport Connecting decals, although the kit instructions note that Union and other US Steel roads had identical cars.
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Re: McKR/Union mill gon
Eric Hansmann
I built one of these F&C kits. Build notes and photos were posted to my blog in 2013.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
F&C promoted this kit as an intro for first time builders. I had built several resin kits by this time and found the instructions lacking even for an experienced modeler. Eric Hansmann Murfreesboro, TN
On Sep 12, 2021, at 10:12 AM, mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:
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Prototype Discoveries
Paul Catapano
Where four wheeled Bobbers “outlawed”, outlawed from interchange, or was there a series of different laws and regulations beginning and ending at political boundaries?
Paul Catapano Winchester, VA.
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