Date   

Re: resin model kits - canopy glue

Tony Thompson
 

Ray Hutchison wrote:

The bottle of canopy glue does say to protect from freezing. My layout will be in unheated garage space, and it does get cold in Green Bay. So... if it does get to freezing, does the model simply pop apart? At what temperature? And is Gorilla the best alternative if not canopy glue?
I am sure the notation on the glue bottle refers to the glue in that liquid form. It certainly does not refer to the glue when polymerized and set as an adhesive. I have had some challenging material combinations (etched metal grilles on plastic F-unit locomotives), glued with canopy glue, exposed to freezing temperatures with no problems.

Tony Thompson
tony@signaturepress.com


resin model kits - canopy glue

Ray Hutchison
 

So I was going to start build on a couple of resin kits, thought I would try canopy glue this time, and then someone here (or another list) posted about taking models apart, putting them in the freezer, dropping them, and everything would pop apart.  I could have used that information a year ago, when I ruined a model trying to take an end off (the seller either did not mention or more likely did not know that it was resin kit) but...  now it brings things to a halt.  The bottle of canopy glue does say to protect from freezing.  My layout will be in unheated garage space, and it does get cold in Green Bay.  So... if it does get to freezing, does the model simply pop apart?  At what temperature?  And is Gorilla the best alternative if not canopy glue?

I know that I will not be leaving locomotives in the garage space, but the idea of moving several boxes of cars is a but overwhelming.

Ray Hutchison
Green Bay, WI


Re: Model: SRLX 6310

Dan Miller
 

Thanks very much for this photo, Brian.  Aside from the question of stripe color, it looks like many of the details of this car differ from the Rapido offering.

Dan Miller


Re: Color recommendation for post 1945-1950 painted GN SS single door boxcar

Charlie Duckworth
 

Thanks for the clarification. I have shots of 5194 and 5196.  5194 has an X in front of the number so I assume these are probably company service numbers and not revenue cars. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Manure shipped by rail

Douglas Harding
 

Let me add that sometimes gons of manure were just hauled to a remote yard location, ie in the country somewhere, and unloaded into a wet or swampy area. Of course this was all in the days before landfills and EPA.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding via groups.io
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 8:19 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Manure shipped by rail

 

Gons were used for shipping manure, not aware of hoppers being used in this service. It was also bagged, which could be shipped on a flatcar or in a boxcar. In the Midwest most often it was coming from large stockyards and packing plants. Usually shipped to rural areas where it was sold to farmers for applying to their fields for fertilizer, esp in the days before commercial fertilizer. It was also bagged and shipped for gardens. Attached are a few photos and documents related to shipping manure by rail. Team tracks or a remote siding could be used for unloading. Workers with shovels and pitchforks were the norm. Clamshell buckets on a crane were used at large operations. Loading of gons was similar to coal, wagons and carts dumping from an elevated ramp. Or the clamshell bucket and crane.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert G P
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 7:11 AM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Manure shipped by rail

 

Hello group, 

 

I model the midwest and wanted some extra uses for my gons and hoppers so It was my conjecture that "bulk" manure loads might be an accurate bill for them? 

 

Lets say the manure is traveling to a feed/seed shop (like heater coal would to a dealer) to be sold in smaller portions to folks with gardens or to larger farming operations. I suppose in the latter case a farmer may have his own hopper(s) full and spotted on a team track for unloading. 

 

To all those with the knowledge - is any of this realistic? Have you heard of anything like this? Sounds like a good way to add in some extra operations and maybe even have fun making sure the cars aren't too close to the caboose!

 

-Bob


Re: Manure shipped by rail

Eric Hansmann
 

Before motorized vehicles dominated the streets, cities had to clean up the waste left by horses and teams. An August 1912 photo if the Pennsy's Try Street team yard in Pittsburgh, PA, captures a transfer facility. I had long thought it was used to load gondolas from wagons to transfer the animal waste. Here's the photo. Click on the image to use the enhanced functions to zoom in for a look.

This photo is actually part of the documentation for a very large public works project that removed many cubic feet of earth that had been a hump on several city streets. Hence the image title of Hump District. Dirt was loaded into wagons by steam shovel then transported a few blocks to this transfer platform to load into gondolas below.

But we can easily see a loaded WNY&P GS gondola beside the transfer platform. It seems to be topped off with what looks like manure. Another partially loaded gondola is ahead with a wagon adjacent that my have just been emptied by shovel. Cities of that time had many stables that needed to be cleaned out daily. Moving the bulk material out to surrounding farms was easier using rail.



Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On 09/14/2021 7:53 AM ron christensen via groups.io <rxensen@...> wrote:


I have never heard of a farmer selling or giving away manure, but that might have happened. That was a very useful fertilizer for the farmer.
Usually the manure is a product of large stock yards or race tracks
 In the case of Chicago race tracks a lot of manure was shipped on the old PM to mushroom plants in Michigan.
The manure was shipped in gondolas and weighed in New buffalo Mi. If the car was too heavy some had to be unloaded.
All that went away in the 70s as trucks started hauling the manure
Ron Christensen



Re: Manure shipped by rail

Ray Breyer
 

Before 1925 or so horses were the dominant form of "horsepower" in urban areas. Stables were everywhere to house wagon teams. And everyone who was upper middle class or rich had one or more. A horse can easily produce 100 pounds of "soiled bedding" in a day, which means a LOT of manure to remove from an average-sized city. So besides stockyards (most of which were inside major cities) there was a lot of manure to move around.

Larger cities, or smaller ones with a disproportionately large number of private buggy horses, usually had manure loading ramps to help the process. While manpower was dead cheap before the 1950s, time was still a finite commodity. If you had a lot of poop to move out of town, you had to have a ram to speed up the process.

I've attached a few photos.


Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Tuesday, September 14, 2021, 08:53:36 AM CDT, ron christensen via groups.io <rxensen@...> wrote:


I have never heard of a farmer selling or giving away manure, but that might have happened. That was a very useful fertilizer for the farmer.
Usually the manure is a product of large stock yards or race tracks
 In the case of Chicago race tracks a lot of manure was shipped on the old PM to mushroom plants in Michigan.
The manure was shipped in gondolas and weighed in New buffalo Mi. If the car was too heavy some had to be unloaded.
All that went away in the 70s as trucks started hauling the manure
Ron Christensen


Re: Color recommendation for post 1945-1950 painted GN SS single door boxcar

Staffan Ehnbom
 

Charlie,
The Westerfield GN 50' single wood sheath box car is Pratt truss construction correct for the 42000-42899 series, 42900-42999 with full end doors, and 43000-43049. The 43050-43499 had 3/3/3 dreadnought ends. The 29000-29999 and the 38900-38999 were Howe truss side construction. "5100" seems to be an incorrect number.
Staffan Ehnbom


Re: Manure shipped by rail

ron christensen
 

I have never heard of a farmer selling or giving away manure, but that might have happened. That was a very useful fertilizer for the farmer.
Usually the manure is a product of large stock yards or race tracks
 In the case of Chicago race tracks a lot of manure was shipped on the old PM to mushroom plants in Michigan.
The manure was shipped in gondolas and weighed in New buffalo Mi. If the car was too heavy some had to be unloaded.
All that went away in the 70s as trucks started hauling the manure
Ron Christensen


Kit updates

Eric Hansmann
 

The Resin Car Works minions have been busy. Updates on three kits have posted to the blog.

Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy


Re: Rapido announces HO Scale UTLX 10,000 gallon X-3 tankcar

Andy Laurent
 

Rapido Trains is excited to announce its newest ready-to-run freight car – the Union Tank Car 10,000 gallon X-3 tank car.

Modelers interested in accuracy know that most boxcars are painted red and most tank cars are black. That’s just the way it is – and was. When discussing tank cars from the 1920s through the 1970s, there can be no more important car than the Union Tank Car (UTLX) X-3 design. And yes, they were almost all black!

The X-3 cars were built in various capacities and configurations, including 6,500 gallon, 8,000 gallon and 12,000 gallon tanks. They were also built with single, double and triple domes. However, none of these variants were more numerous than the basic 10,000 gallon, single-dome version. From the 1920s onwards Union Tank Car (UTLX) fielded the largest fleet of tank cars in North America, and the 10,000 gallon X-3 accounted for nearly 13,000 of them!

 

The basic X-3 was used to haul fuel oil, gasoline, vegetable oils – essentially any liquid that did not require special handling features. These cars went EVERYWHERE!

Rapido’s model has been developed with the help of noted UTLX tank car expert Steve Hile. We are offering two distinct versions, the K-brake equipped cars, good before 1953, and the AB-brake equipped cars good from the 1940s onwards. In addition to brake equipment, our models will feature correct handbrake and coupler cut bar arrangements which differed depending on the brake equipment installed. Either Andrews or “Bettendorf” cast steel trucks will be fitted, depending on the era.

Other features of Rapido’s model include:

  • Designed from original blueprints
  • Correct tank bolster pads
  • Correct 54” diameter dome
  • Correct UTLX-style warning placard holders
  • Full underbody detailing with two distinct brake systems offered
  • Correct end platforms
  • Correct coupler cut bars and hand brake mountings
  • Semi-scale couplers and coupler boxes
  • Free-rolling turned metal wheels
  • Accurate paint and lettering
  • Multiple road numbers available per scheme.


Re: Color recommendation for post 1945-1950 painted GN SS single door boxcar

Richard Remiarz
 

Charlie,

 

For mineral red I use Tru-Color TCP-214.  During the 1950’s, until October 1, 1956, the entire car including underbody and trucks would be painted mineral red.  After October 1 the GN began repainting cars with vermillion red.  For vermillion painted cars the trucks and underbody were painted mineral red.

 

Sincerely,

Rich Remiarz

Vadnais Heights, MN

Editor/Coordinator GNRHS Modelers’ Pages

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Charlie Duckworth
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 7:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Color recommendation for post 1945-1950 painted GN SS single door boxcar

 

I’m at the point with my Westerfield 50’ GN SS single door boxcar where I need to paint it. The instructions advise ‘mineral red’ for the time period in which it would have been shopped and painted. Any suggestions from the GN modelers on the list?  How was the roof and underframe coated?   Tim sent me a shot of a car painted in a oxide color but advised I contact the SMEs.   


Also the number series seem confusing (to me at least) some cars in 29000 group, others in 38000, 42000, 43000 and 5100.  Westerfield car has numbering for the 42000 series.  Attached is an image from my collection of one in company service  


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.

 


Re: Model: SRLX 6310

Tim O'Connor
 


I should have said every COLOR photo I have seen shows red on the bottom in State Of Maine paint.
Black and white photos, on the other hand...

Tim O'Connor


On 9/13/2021 10:58 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
I'm going to rock the boat a bit more. First, a photo to illustrate the problem, courtesy of the Protocraft web site:



Which stripe is red, and which is blue? If you said the top stripe is red, color photos of this famous paint scheme would prove you wrong...

Who ever said the red has to be on top?

And that brought me to the realization that, if the photographer chose a BLUE filter to put visual separation between the colors, the red would go very dark, like the bottom stripe in the prototype photo of the Swift car, while the blue stripe would go lighter, and that same filter would cause yellow or imitation gold to go very dark, again as in that prototype photo. I sure hope Rapido has some documentation other than that one photo for their red on top decision, because I think it's wrong...

Dennis Storzek

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Model: SRLX 6310

Tim O'Connor
 


red is on the BOTTOM in every photo I've seen


On 9/13/2021 10:58 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
I'm going to rock the boat a bit more. First, a photo to illustrate the problem, courtesy of the Protocraft web site:



Which stripe is red, and which is blue? If you said the top stripe is red, color photos of this famous paint scheme would prove you wrong...

Who ever said the red has to be on top?

And that brought me to the realization that, if the photographer chose a BLUE filter to put visual separation between the colors, the red would go very dark, like the bottom stripe in the prototype photo of the Swift car, while the blue stripe would go lighter, and that same filter would cause yellow or imitation gold to go very dark, again as in that prototype photo. I sure hope Rapido has some documentation other than that one photo for their red on top decision, because I think it's wrong...

Dennis Storzek

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Model: SRLX 6310

Steve and Barb Hile
 

There is at least one other photo of a Swift reefer in the Buy More War Bonds scheme.  It is in the Hendrickson/Kaminsky Billboard reefer book and shows car 6306 and two other cars.  In this view, the lettering in the top band is lighter than the background color.  I can’t post the entire photo, but here is a snip to show what I am saying.

 

 

There is certainly a difference between the color of the word REFRIGERATOR compared to the dimensional data in the lower band (blue one, probably.)

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2021 3:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Model: SRLX 6310

 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 12:20 PM, Scott wrote:

There has been discussion that the top was reefer yellow not red.  The letters in the photo above are to dark in my opinion to be gold.  But it doesn't make much sense as why they would not have painted the top red.  I have the sunshine kit but haven't finished it.  I cant decide which way to go on it with the paint job.

Wow, what a can of worms. Knowing how some older B&W film rendered colors, my first thought was that the bottom color was red, while the upper color was blue and the lettering yellow. But WWII seems too late for orthochromatic film, and I've seen that film make blue literally disappear, so my next thought was the photographer used a color filter to get better tonal separation between the red and blue since both normally print as mid-tone gray. A red filter would have darkened the blue and lightened the red, but would have turned the yellow  lettering white. All I can surmise is the lettering in the red band was not yellow, OR was painted a different color specifically for this photo.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Model: SRLX 6310

Jack Mullen
 

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 07:58 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
And that brought me to the realization that, if the photographer chose a BLUE filter to put visual separation between the colors, the red would go very dark, like the bottom stripe in the prototype photo of the Swift car, while the blue stripe would go lighter, and that same filter would cause yellow or imitation gold to go very dark, again as in that prototype photo.
Dennis, I had the same thoughts while I was reading your previous message.  Further, the models have the BUY MORE WAR BONDS letting in blue that matches the lower band of color. But to my eye, in the protofoto the lettering matches the upper band.

Jack Mullen


Re: Model: SRLX 6310

Dennis Storzek
 

I'm going to rock the boat a bit more. First, a photo to illustrate the problem, courtesy of the Protocraft web site:



Which stripe is red, and which is blue? If you said the top stripe is red, color photos of this famous paint scheme would prove you wrong...

Who ever said the red has to be on top?

And that brought me to the realization that, if the photographer chose a BLUE filter to put visual separation between the colors, the red would go very dark, like the bottom stripe in the prototype photo of the Swift car, while the blue stripe would go lighter, and that same filter would cause yellow or imitation gold to go very dark, again as in that prototype photo. I sure hope Rapido has some documentation other than that one photo for their red on top decision, because I think it's wrong...

Dennis Storzek


Re: Manure shipped by rail

Craig Wilson
 

I model the midwest and wanted some extra uses for my gons and hoppers so It was my conjecture that "bulk" manure loads might be an accurate bill for them? 
---------------
Here are a couple which were taken from the car ferry manifests archived from the Ann Arbor Railroad:

January 4, 1975 / MILW 51674 (50 foot boxcar)  / Vigoro sheep manure
From:  Organic Compost, Germantown Wisc / To:  Vigoro, Toronto Ont
Via:  MILW - GBW - AA - DTI - CP

January 14, 1975 / CVC 402583 (50 foot boxcar) / manure
From:  Compost Corp, Germantown Wisc / to F. Manley Corp, Etobicoke Ont
Via:  MILW - GBW - AA - DTI - CP

Craig Wilson


Re: Rapido announces HO Scale UTLX 10,000 gallon X-3 tankcar

Joseph
 

According to the website/announcement, yes
Joe binish

On Mon, Sep 13, 2021 at 8:03 PM nyc3001 . <nyc3001@...> wrote:
Will this be the 54" dome variant?

-Phil Lee


Re: Rapido announces HO Scale UTLX 10,000 gallon X-3 tankcar

nyc3001 .
 

Will this be the 54" dome variant?

-Phil Lee

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