Date   

Re: North Western Refrigerator Line color

Bruce Smith
 

Ed, et. al.,

 

Thanks!  That pretty much “seal’s the deal”. I happen to have the hobby paint match for SFRD on my bench, a bottle of Poly Scale Maine Central harvest gold. The Branchline car sides just need grab irons added - I need to add a second set on the left and I’ll use brass instead of the kit’s plastic and they can head to the paint shop.

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Sunday, September 19, 2021 at 3:02 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] North Western Refrigerator Line color

 

 



On Sep 19, 2021, at 2:24 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

 

Nice, but alas, none of these cars represent the scheme I am asking about. The car that I am modeling was built for NWX in 1940 and ultimately transferred to NADX circa 1950 and then leased to Hormel. While the Hormel scheme is great for everyone who modeled the SnT model as intended, circa mid-1950s, it won't work for me, and although both companies start with NORTH, I'm pretty sure NADX orange is not an indicator of the color of the NWX cars as built. And unfortunately, while most NWX cars were initially painted with grey sides, and post WWII a yellow and green scheme was adopted, neither of those scheme is relevant either. The AC&F built NWX 6800 series was a bit of an odd-ball, having solid yellow-orange sides. Now, one might reasonably speculate that the yellow might be the same as that on the yellow and green car, but I am looking for something more factual than speculation 😉

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

Bruce, Tim, and others interested,

As you probably already know, ACF lot 2044 was a quantity of 100 - 40’ RSM wood reefers NWX 6800-6899 built at the Chicago plant ca. 7-40. 

 

The ACF bill of materials denote “Yellow" for the sides; Mineral Red - rectangle under the door, ends, roof; black - bottom of side sills, steel hardware on the sides, underframe, trucks, side stencils; white - end stencils. 

 

A paint sample of the “yellow” sides attached to the back-inside cover of this document, available for review at the Barriger National Railroad Library, is a yellow-orange shade. It's a virtual match to that used by InterMountain on the SFRD steel rebuild reefers originally offered by Long’s Drug Store.

 

The National Museum of Transportation has in their ACF drawing collection a number of applicable lot 2044 drawings to include a general arrangement, brake arrangement, and stencils. 

 

If interested in receiving a list of available drawings, contact me OFF LIST at hawk0621@.... An order would need to be placed with the library archivist Teresa Militello at the NMOT.

 

Regards,

Ed Hawkins

 

 

 

 

 


Re: ACY 175-194 flatcars

Bob Weston
 

Richard I don't have a photo of the AC&Y flats in question but I do have the following information from the defunct  ACY Historical Society. There were a total of 16 cars in the number series 175-194.They were all steel with a wood floor and were 42'1" in length. They were built in 1923, no builder info available and leased by the AC&Y in 1957 from NEL Corporation. They were on the roster until 1966.  Bob Weston


Re: Rapido announces HO Scale UTLX 10,000 gallon X-3 tankcar

Dan Miller
 

Thank you very much, Bill and Dave!

Dan Miller


Re: ACY 175-194 flatcars

Philip Dove
 

The Tichy /Gould kit was for a NC&StL ACF built car from 1923. JohnNehrich in NEB&W Guide to Steam-era freight car modeling, part B says the car "became in effect the ACF standard flat," He makes no mention of the ACY having any of these cars. The Champ decal set HC-646 for this car includes road names for 8 roads but not ACY. Richard Hendrickson wrote an article about the ACF built cars in the June 1993 Rail model Journal.


Re: ACY 175-194 flatcars

Philip Dove
 

The Tichy model is based on a car built by  ACF for NC&StL. I beleive it was typical of flat cars made for a number of roads. ERTL made a rtr version of this car that is identical l have both. I will go and look up my meagre references to see if l can find out more. 


1957 CBC

ed_mines
 

I saw a 1957 Car Builders Cyclopedia for sale on e-bay.

Ed Mines


Re: ACY 175-194 flatcars

James Brewer
 

I believe the Tichy model is based on a NC&StL prototype.

Jim Brewer

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 5:56 PM Richard Townsend via groups.io <richtownsend=netscape.net@groups.io> wrote:
I'm hoping it is (or the Red Caboose flat is) but I have not found anything that confirms it.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: John Sykes III via groups.io <johnsykesiii=yahoo.com@groups.io>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Sep 19, 2021 2:47 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ACY 175-194 flatcars

I could be wrong, but isn't that the Tichy model?

-- John


Re: ACY 175-194 flatcars

Richard Townsend
 

I'm hoping it is (or the Red Caboose flat is) but I have not found anything that confirms it.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: John Sykes III via groups.io <johnsykesiii@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Sun, Sep 19, 2021 2:47 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ACY 175-194 flatcars

I could be wrong, but isn't that the Tichy model?

-- John


Re: ACY 175-194 flatcars

John Sykes III
 

I could be wrong, but isn't that the Tichy model?

-- John


ACY 175-194 flatcars

Richard Townsend
 

I'm looking for photos of the 42' flatcars owned by the AC&Y, numbered 175 to 194. Is there an accurate model of these cars in HO?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] North Western Refrigerator Line color

Tim O'Connor
 


Yup, I had more photos than I knew about... definitely the work of a 'museum'. :-)

Tim O'Connor


On 9/19/2021 3:24 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Tim,

Any idea where and when this photo was taken? The car clearly has a worn NORTH AMERICAN logo, but freshly stenciled NWX 6834 as if it was part of the original series. If I had to guess, I would say that this is a "museum" back paint to NWX of an existing NADX scheme.

Regards,
Bruce


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] North Western Refrigerator Line color

Ed Hawkins
 



On Sep 19, 2021, at 2:24 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Nice, but alas, none of these cars represent the scheme I am asking about. The car that I am modeling was built for NWX in 1940 and ultimately transferred to NADX circa 1950 and then leased to Hormel. While the Hormel scheme is great for everyone who modeled the SnT model as intended, circa mid-1950s, it won't work for me, and although both companies start with NORTH, I'm pretty sure NADX orange is not an indicator of the color of the NWX cars as built. And unfortunately, while most NWX cars were initially painted with grey sides, and post WWII a yellow and green scheme was adopted, neither of those scheme is relevant either. The AC&F built NWX 6800 series was a bit of an odd-ball, having solid yellow-orange sides. Now, one might reasonably speculate that the yellow might be the same as that on the yellow and green car, but I am looking for something more factual than speculation 😉

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

Bruce, Tim, and others interested,
As you probably already know, ACF lot 2044 was a quantity of 100 - 40’ RSM wood reefers NWX 6800-6899 built at the Chicago plant ca. 7-40. 

The ACF bill of materials denote “Yellow" for the sides; Mineral Red - rectangle under the door, ends, roof; black - bottom of side sills, steel hardware on the sides, underframe, trucks, side stencils; white - end stencils. 

A paint sample of the “yellow” sides attached to the back-inside cover of this document, available for review at the Barriger National Railroad Library, is a yellow-orange shade. It's a virtual match to that used by InterMountain on the SFRD steel rebuild reefers originally offered by Long’s Drug Store.

The National Museum of Transportation has in their ACF drawing collection a number of applicable lot 2044 drawings to include a general arrangement, brake arrangement, and stencils. 

If interested in receiving a list of available drawings, contact me OFF LIST at hawk0621@.... An order would need to be placed with the library archivist Teresa Militello at the NMOT.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins






Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] North Western Refrigerator Line color

O Fenton Wells
 

Hope you can match it.
Fenton

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 2:57 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Fenton,

That's great!  That's exactly the scheme I'm looking for. 

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 9:45 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] North Western Refrigerator Line color
 
This is the only NWX photo I have from 1957, Al Chione but it is not the number series you are looking for.  Hope it helps
Fenton

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 10:38 AM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Scott,

For all the other NWX cars, the grey side scheme is perfect for my era (and I have at least one). However, for these specific cars, which are the SnT project car, that scheme is clearly not appropriate, not is the yellow and green scheme.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 2:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] North Western Refrigerator Line color
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
There's a section on NWX cars in Gene Green's Color Guide. According to Gene, the yellow and green paint scheme was introduced in 1953.  There's also a picture of a car in the grey scheme in 1960. 
 
I'm suggesting that, depending on your era, the grey paint scheme may have been more common.  

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 09/19/2021 1:25 AM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:
 
 
On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 04:19 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
These cars were originally built in 1940 for North Western Refrigerator Line, series 6800-6899. As noted in RP Cyc vol. 4, page 66, unlike the previous grey sides for NWX, these cars had "yellow-orange" sides. Might any of you have a suggestion for a paint match?
Bruce,
NWX 6804, one of the cars shown on p.66 is lettered for lease to Oscar Mayer. The other, 6858 is not marked for a lessee, but neither does it have the usual NorthWestern "ball and bar" insignia. The 68xx series were RSM meat reefers and likely all leased to meatpackers.  It's a reasonable conjecture that a lease is the reason for the non-standard color.  
Reefer yellow with a drop of orange seems about right  for 1950s color photos of Oscar Mayer reefers and the various models of them produced over the years. I'd go with that in the absence of direct evidence. 
Hope that's some help.
Jack Mullen



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] North Western Refrigerator Line color

Bruce Smith
 

Tim,

Any idea where and when this photo was taken? The car clearly has a worn NORTH AMERICAN logo, but freshly stenciled NWX 6834 as if it was part of the original series. If I had to guess, I would say that this is a "museum" back paint to NWX of an existing NADX scheme.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 10:07 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] North Western Refrigerator Line color
 

these are the only 'orange-yellow' NWX cars I've seen (incl several Oscar Mayers)

On 9/19/2021 10:36 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:
Doug,

Nice, but alas, none of these cars represent the scheme I am asking about. The car that I am modeling was built for NWX in 1940 and ultimately transferred to NADX circa 1950 and then leased to Hormel. While the Hormel scheme is great for everyone who modeled the SnT model as intended, circa mid-1950s, it won't work for me, and although both companies start with NORTH, I'm pretty sure NADX orange is not an indicator of the color of the NWX cars as built. And unfortunately, while most NWX cars were initially painted with grey sides, and post WWII a yellow and green scheme was adopted, neither of those scheme is relevant either. The AC&F built NWX 6800 series was a bit of an odd-ball, having solid yellow-orange sides. Now, one might reasonably speculate that the yellow might be the same as that on the yellow and green car, but I am looking for something more factual than speculation 😉

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: SRLX 25034 - SILVER PAINT

Bill Keene
 

OK. A dirty silver. Also a good deal of grime. Enjoy.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA




Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] North Western Refrigerator Line color

Bruce Smith
 

Fenton,

That's great!  That's exactly the scheme I'm looking for. 

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 9:45 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] North Western Refrigerator Line color
 
This is the only NWX photo I have from 1957, Al Chione but it is not the number series you are looking for.  Hope it helps
Fenton

On Sun, Sep 19, 2021 at 10:38 AM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Scott,

For all the other NWX cars, the grey side scheme is perfect for my era (and I have at least one). However, for these specific cars, which are the SnT project car, that scheme is clearly not appropriate, not is the yellow and green scheme.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2021 2:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] North Western Refrigerator Line color
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
There's a section on NWX cars in Gene Green's Color Guide. According to Gene, the yellow and green paint scheme was introduced in 1953.  There's also a picture of a car in the grey scheme in 1960. 
 
I'm suggesting that, depending on your era, the grey paint scheme may have been more common.  

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 09/19/2021 1:25 AM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:
 
 
On Sat, Sep 18, 2021 at 04:19 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:
These cars were originally built in 1940 for North Western Refrigerator Line, series 6800-6899. As noted in RP Cyc vol. 4, page 66, unlike the previous grey sides for NWX, these cars had "yellow-orange" sides. Might any of you have a suggestion for a paint match?
Bruce,
NWX 6804, one of the cars shown on p.66 is lettered for lease to Oscar Mayer. The other, 6858 is not marked for a lessee, but neither does it have the usual NorthWestern "ball and bar" insignia. The 68xx series were RSM meat reefers and likely all leased to meatpackers.  It's a reasonable conjecture that a lease is the reason for the non-standard color.  
Reefer yellow with a drop of orange seems about right  for 1950s color photos of Oscar Mayer reefers and the various models of them produced over the years. I'd go with that in the absence of direct evidence. 
Hope that's some help.
Jack Mullen



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: North Western Refrigerator Line color

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

I grew up along one of the C&NW suburban lines in Chicago during the fifties and sixties, and remember seeing the yellow and green reefers, sometimes seeing them  with a suburban train passing on an adjacent track. I can say with certainty that the reefers were painted in the passenger colors, and that the yellow was chrome yellow without a hint of orange.

However, since the cars in question were intended to be leased to meat packers, and had no hint of C&NW involvement, at least as far as the public was concerned, it makes sense that they should be painted like most reefers of the day, with reefer orange sides. As to cars without any marks for the company leasing it, that is not unusual; most leasing companies would do short term leases to allow companies to "fine tune" the size of their fleet, and these short term leases did not include custom lettering the car.

Dennis Storzek


Photo: PFE Reefer

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PFE Reefer

Photo from the Barriger Library:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/barrigerlibrary/51124563445/

The PFE reefer is to the lower left.

Click on the photo twice for maximum enlargement.

Can anyone make out the car number?

Thanks.

Also pictured is B&O M18 boxcar 172513.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Nevada Northern Railway Defect Card (Circa 1913)

Bob Chaparro
 

Nevada Northern Railway Defect Card (Circa 1913)

Document from the Nevada Northern Railway Archives:

https://tinyurl.com/ymkwn4uy

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Decaling Kadee cars.

Jim Betz
 

  ... change step 4 to include "wicking the water" before letting it dry (using the
rectangles of tissue and tweezers).

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