Date   

Re: End View for Rapido NP Boxcar

np328
 

Michael, 
     here are two of the builders photos I submitted to Rapido for the initial evaluation on producing this car many years ago. 
Chain wrap can be plainly seen.                                                                                                                                                  James Dick - Roseville, MN  
   


Re: End View for Rapido NP Boxcar

O Fenton Wells
 

I do the chain wrap.
Fenton

On Sun, Oct 10, 2021 at 2:46 PM Michael Gross <ActorMichaelGross@...> wrote:
In 2018, Ted Culotta documented adding finer details to Rapido's pre-WWII Northern Pacific DS boxcar.  Among Ted's enhancements to the B-End (photo below) was a brake staff pivot support made from an A-Line sill step.  Hoping to take this detail a step further, I would like to add whatever chain or cable attached to the staff above the support.  Can anyone provide a prototype photo of the B-End of NP's 10000-series boxcars, or am I safe in just wrapping a bit of fine chain around the staff without a photo?  Many thanks for any assistance.
--
Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


End View for Rapido NP Boxcar

Michael Gross
 

In 2018, Ted Culotta documented adding finer details to Rapido's pre-WWII Northern Pacific DS boxcar.  Among Ted's enhancements to the B-End (photo below) was a brake staff pivot support made from an A-Line sill step.  Hoping to take this detail a step further, I would like to add whatever chain or cable attached to the staff above the support.  Can anyone provide a prototype photo of the B-End of NP's 10000-series boxcars, or am I safe in just wrapping a bit of fine chain around the staff without a photo?  Many thanks for any assistance.
--
Michael Gross
Pasadena, CA


Photos: Cotton County Poultry & Egg Co. Reefer MGMX 101

Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: Cotton County Poultry & Egg Co. Reefer MGMX 101

Photos courtesy of the New York Central System Historical Society:

https://nycshs.omeka.net/items/show/130304

https://nycshs.omeka.net/items/show/130307

I have no reference for the MGMX reporting mark for the time period of this car.

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railway Bull Shippers Group

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup


Photos: Columbus Packing Company Reefers CBRX 204 & CBRX 147

Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: Columbus Packing Company Reefers CBRX 204 & CBRX 147

Photos courtesy of the New York Central System Historical Society:

https://nycshs.omeka.net/items/show/130294

https://nycshs.omeka.net/items/show/130296

CBRX reporting mark assigned to Capital Brand Refrigerator Express/Columbus Packing Co.

South High Street, Columbus, Ohio.

Railroad: Hocking Valley.

Weekly killing capacities:

Cattle, 250; hogs, 3,000; sheep, 200. Sausage — Fresh and smoked. By-Products — Dried blood, tankage, hog and chicken feed.

Trade Marks — Hams and bacon, "Capital"; lard, "Royal" and "Capital." Also exports.

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railway Bull Shippers Group

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup


Re: more glue questions

Tim O'Connor
 


haha yes they are roughly equivalent. i'm sure there are other brands too.

i tried water based contact cement once and did not like it. gimme the old nasty stuff.

I just looked on Amazon and Barge Cement quarts (the old stuff) is still available - 30
bucks gets you a lifetime supply! 😁

Tim

On 10/10/2021 10:27 AM, Eric Hansmann wrote:
I don’t know, Chuck. I’ve never used Weldwood. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Oct 9, 2021, at 7:21 PM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

So much difference is there between old yellow Barge and Weldwood contact cement? 
Don't they work in a similar way? 
Chuck Peck



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: more glue questions

Eric Hansmann
 

I don’t know, Chuck. I’ve never used Weldwood. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Oct 9, 2021, at 7:21 PM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

So much difference is there between old yellow Barge and Weldwood contact cement? 
Don't they work in a similar way? 
Chuck Peck

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 7:51 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
New Barge is in a blue tube. I’ve bought them at Hobby Lobby. Look in the leather working area. The latest tube came from a local shoe repair shop. 

Old Barge was in a yellow tube. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Oct 9, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

I have forgotten which color is the new Barge cement and which is the old.  
Chuck Peck


Re: more glue questions/Barge cement

Todd Sullivan
 

Thank you, Tim, for adding more insight to this conversation.

Todd Sullivan


Re: more glue questions/Barge cement

Tim O'Connor
 


regardless of carrier (water or other solvent) what makes contact cement work is that the
adhesive remains after the carrier has evaporated. Todd has not had problems because the
cement doesn't attack or absorb into urethane resin... but that does not mean it has set up
permanently or well. But since it's just for temporary use and CA is applied afterwards, it
hasn't lead to any failures. I'm the opposite - I use CA for temporary bonds, and then apply
2-part epoxy or other flexible permanent adhesive (canopy glue, or silicone caulk)

Tim O'Connor
 

On 10/9/2021 5:58 PM, Scott H. Haycock wrote:
Most contact adhesives are solvent-based. I wouldn't use them on plastic models. You can buy water-based contact adhesives in cans, but I've not seen any in tubes, like Barge Cement.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 10/09/2021 3:53 PM Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:
 
 
Hi Tim,

Hmmm.  I appreciate your warning, but I have not had any problems with this.  Perhaps I've been lucky.  I do use quite small amounts of contact cement, usually when gluing roofs to body sides and ends.  Just enough contact cement to hold the roof on and in place until I can get the CA wicked into the seams. 

Todd Sullivan.


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: more glue questions

Gary Ray
 

Yellow is the old.  I bought a quart of it on the internet about 10 years ago for adhering track to CVMW tie strips.  Had tried the “new” and it did not work for that purpose when I added MEK.  I think shoe repair shops can still get the old formula if there are any in your area.  Another disappearing industry.

Gary Ray

Weatherford, TX

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Ralph W. Brown
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 6:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] more glue questions

 

Hi Eric,

 

What is the difference between the old and the new Barge cement?

 

Thanks,

 

 

Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com

 

From: Eric Hansmann

Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 7:51 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] more glue questions

 

New Barge is in a blue tube. I’ve bought them at Hobby Lobby. Look in the leather working area. The latest tube came from a local shoe repair shop. 

 

Old Barge was in a yellow tube.

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


On Oct 9, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

I have forgotten which color is the new Barge cement and which is the old. 

Chuck Peck


Re: more glue questions

Charles Peck
 

So much difference is there between old yellow Barge and Weldwood contact cement? 
Don't they work in a similar way? 
Chuck Peck

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 7:51 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:
New Barge is in a blue tube. I’ve bought them at Hobby Lobby. Look in the leather working area. The latest tube came from a local shoe repair shop. 

Old Barge was in a yellow tube. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Oct 9, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

I have forgotten which color is the new Barge cement and which is the old.  
Chuck Peck


Re: more glue questions

Eric Hansmann
 

The yellow tubes of Barge had chemicals that are not friendly with some states. Toluene, maybe?


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Oct 9, 2021, at 6:56 PM, Ralph W. Brown <rbrown51@...> wrote:

Hi Eric,
 
What is the difference between the old and the new Barge cement?
 
Thanks,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 
From: Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 7:51 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] more glue questions
 
New Barge is in a blue tube. I’ve bought them at Hobby Lobby. Look in the leather working area. The latest tube came from a local shoe repair shop. 
 
Old Barge was in a yellow tube.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Oct 9, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

I have forgotten which color is the new Barge cement and which is the old. 
Chuck Peck


Re: more glue questions

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Eric,
 
What is the difference between the old and the new Barge cement?
 
Thanks,
 
 
Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com
 

From: Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, October 9, 2021 7:51 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] more glue questions
 
New Barge is in a blue tube. I’ve bought them at Hobby Lobby. Look in the leather working area. The latest tube came from a local shoe repair shop. 
 
Old Barge was in a yellow tube.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Oct 9, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

I have forgotten which color is the new Barge cement and which is the old. 
Chuck Peck


Re: more glue questions

Eric Hansmann
 

New Barge is in a blue tube. I’ve bought them at Hobby Lobby. Look in the leather working area. The latest tube came from a local shoe repair shop. 

Old Barge was in a yellow tube. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Oct 9, 2021, at 6:36 PM, Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:

I have forgotten which color is the new Barge cement and which is the old.  
Chuck Peck
_._,_._,_


Re: more glue questions

Charles Peck
 

I have forgotten which color is the new Barge cement and which is the old.  
Chuck Peck

On Sat, Oct 9, 2021 at 6:35 PM Steve SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:
I have use Barge cement for years. When I was using CV tie strips and switch kits I used it to glue down the rail. Put it on the rail and let it dry, then place it on the tie and hit it with MEK and it is glued tight.  I have also used it to glue weights in cars (let the gas escape before sealing it up). Many other uses. It tends to dry some in a closed can, so I add some MEK to the can from time to time and it keeps on working. I must have had the can for 15 years. Barge was designed to glue shoe soles on, and I have used it to repair sneekers that have come apart.
________________
Steve Sandifer


On Saturday, October 9, 2021, 11:03:55 AM CDT, Nolan Hinshaw <nualain48@...> wrote:


On Oct 8, 2021, at 16:08, ed_mines via groups.io <ed_mines=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> I always thought Barge cement was a "new & improved" form of Walthers goo.
> Does it form filaments like goo does?

As far as I know, barge cement predated Walthers, even Uncle Bill himself.
--
Artie the Hinged Jaw
Retired AFU Game Warden







Re: more glue questions/Barge cement

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

I have had, and seen, numerous examples similar to your observation. The “Goo” definitely attacks many plastics. Oddly, even after the “Goo” has dried, the adjoining plastic remains damaged ... soft, rubbery, weak and often warped. Worse, the damage seems to keep spreading, and soaking deeper into the plastic. I’ve worked on items over 40 years old that were utterly destroyed … the “Goo” just keeps on eating into the plastic. The residual “Goo” being much harder than the damaged plastic around it. this cannot be just solvent penetration, but some form of chemical reaction.

Anyway, do NOT use “Goo” on plastic items. It’s fine on metal and wood, but NOT plastic!

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Oct 9, 2021, at 5:24 PM, np328 <jcdworkingonthenp@...> wrote:

    Tim's comments on post 187715 in the second sentence are well founded.  I recall in experiences from an earlier club layout, a member who assembled out of Design Preservation Miniatures modular parts, a skyscraper  perhaps 10 stories high. He assembled it with Goo and for a few weeks it stood upright and square. Then after a while it developed a slight lean. Another member put his hands around it and set it straight again, only for the structure to lean again next week now in a different direction. 
     Strange thing was, there was no joint failure. The structure held together, even when one member jokingly gave it a lateral twist!   
Where the DPM panels were joined, the plastic became quite malleable in that if you would press a screwdriver point or even a fingernail into the plastic, it did not take much pressure to leave a lasting impression. I am not a chemist and can't say if it attacks other plastics (or resin) in a like manner however of the DPM material, it seemed to absorb the volatiles quite easily. I don't think the Goo ever completely set.                                                                                                                                           James Dick - Roseville, MN 


more glue questions/Barge cement

Andy Carlson
 

In an unconfined situation, the solvented joints used with our modeling glues will dissipate into the open air. Problems arrive when the solvents are trapped and have nowhere to out gas, so they get absorbed into the the surrounding plastic. This is where a lot of damage can occur if not resolved correctly. The contact cements, which are tacking off before contact joining the two halves, are out gassing through this "tacking' procedure, thus allowing less trapped behind solvents. This I believe why contact cements work as well as they do for joining plastics together, having less solvent at the time of joining. In actuality, most solvent welded plastic joints need much less solvent then we often apply (If some is good, more is better). I remember having fits getting 0.005" styrene pieces to laminate to a larger styrene surface. The edges scalloped like crazy, and surface waves replaced the formerly planar flat fields. I cured this problem by performaning a similar flashing-off as what is recommended for contact cement; the degassed joining areas looked like there wasn't any further remaining solvent, but the thin styrene sheet bonded quite well with no distortions with what little solvent remaining being quite adequate.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Saturday, October 9, 2021, 02:58:34 PM PDT, Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...> wrote:


Most contact adhesives are solvent-based. I wouldn't use them on plastic models. You can buy water-based contact adhesives in cans, but I've not seen any in tubes, like Barge Cement.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 10/09/2021 3:53 PM Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:
 
 
Hi Tim,

Hmmm.  I appreciate your warning, but I have not had any problems with this.  Perhaps I've been lucky.  I do use quite small amounts of contact cement, usually when gluing roofs to body sides and ends.  Just enough contact cement to hold the roof on and in place until I can get the CA wicked into the seams. 

Todd Sullivan.



_._,_._,_


Re: more glue questions

Steve SANDIFER
 

I have use Barge cement for years. When I was using CV tie strips and switch kits I used it to glue down the rail. Put it on the rail and let it dry, then place it on the tie and hit it with MEK and it is glued tight.  I have also used it to glue weights in cars (let the gas escape before sealing it up). Many other uses. It tends to dry some in a closed can, so I add some MEK to the can from time to time and it keeps on working. I must have had the can for 15 years. Barge was designed to glue shoe soles on, and I have used it to repair sneekers that have come apart.
________________
Steve Sandifer


On Saturday, October 9, 2021, 11:03:55 AM CDT, Nolan Hinshaw <nualain48@...> wrote:


On Oct 8, 2021, at 16:08, ed_mines via groups.io <ed_mines=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
>
> I always thought Barge cement was a "new & improved" form of Walthers goo.
> Does it form filaments like goo does?

As far as I know, barge cement predated Walthers, even Uncle Bill himself.
--
Artie the Hinged Jaw
Retired AFU Game Warden







Re: more glue questions/Barge cement

Scott H. Haycock
 

Most contact adhesives are solvent-based. I wouldn't use them on plastic models. You can buy water-based contact adhesives in cans, but I've not seen any in tubes, like Barge Cement.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 10/09/2021 3:53 PM Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:
 
 
Hi Tim,

Hmmm.  I appreciate your warning, but I have not had any problems with this.  Perhaps I've been lucky.  I do use quite small amounts of contact cement, usually when gluing roofs to body sides and ends.  Just enough contact cement to hold the roof on and in place until I can get the CA wicked into the seams. 

Todd Sullivan.


Re: more glue questions/Barge cement

Todd Sullivan
 

Hi Tim,

Hmmm.  I appreciate your warning, but I have not had any problems with this.  Perhaps I've been lucky.  I do use quite small amounts of contact cement, usually when gluing roofs to body sides and ends.  Just enough contact cement to hold the roof on and in place until I can get the CA wicked into the seams. 

Todd Sullivan.

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