Date   

Re: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements

Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

To add to some of the other comments.
  1. Your era is pretty broad, so it is tough to narrow down specifics. In part beccause your era includes the Korean conflict, but also includes years outside that.
  2. Both railroad and and military owned flat cars were used. In 1953, the military received a number of six axle heavy duty Magor built flats that were used in interchange service. These were typically reserved for heavier loads such as medium and heavy tanks, adn then main battle tanks. These cars have been offered by Roco.
  3. The boxcars were not common in interchange, but some were stenciled to allow it. 
  4. Movements are of many types. New equipment from manufacturers, old equipment being sent for reconditioning, old equipment being sent to National Guard units, equipment going to or from manuevers, and equipment being moved to overseas deployment sites, to name a few.
Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Robert G P <bobgp5109@...>
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 2:40 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io <RealSTMFC@groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Hello all, 

I would like to model very accurately a few cars -probably loaded flats- carrying military equipment appropriate to my era. I have seen a lot of US Army boxcars or whatever and such but have never witnessed these in manifest freights. 

Basically what my question is, what did military (non complete train and non troop) movements in this era look like? The flats would've been road owned surely? How likely is it that a DOD or U.S Army/Navy/AF lettered car of any type would be loaded and sent out with about 4 or 5 flats with crates and vehicles? 

And yes I know the cheap US Army lettered stuff is practically as un-prototypical as it gets, F.Y.I... And that most prototypical US Army stuff was meant for movements on their own property like the Transportation Corps.

Thank you much,
Bob



Re: what type of car is this?

Ted Schnepf
 

Hello,

I Just checked my Milw car diagram book from 1958, that I have reprinted and offer for sale.  These are "Chip Cars",  Wood chips numbered 2730000 to 273260. The first part of the group was rebuilt in Tacoma in 1952 and more cars were rebuilt in 1956.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353


On Saturday, October 16, 2021, 05:26:52 PM CDT, Daniel A. Mitchell <danmitch@...> wrote:


Most likely they are wood-chip cars, often called “Hog Fuel” cars. Usually they are rebuilt boxcars. The only thing unusual about them is the roof with hatches ... usually these are just left open-topped. They probably have no bottom-dump hatches, they dump out of low-mounted side doors (plainly seen in these photos).

“Hog Fuel” consists of coarse wood waste … mostly much larger chunks than sawdust. The name comes from the big wood-chipper that most sawmills used to break up the left-over slash unfit for lumber … the chipper was called a “Hog”. The “Hog Fuel” could also contain small blocks … cut-offs from timbers cut to standard lengths. A common use for such material was fuel for the MANY "donkey” engines used in the lumber woods, as well as small boilers on most any steam engines (NOT necessarily steam locomotives).

Dan Mitchell
========== 

On Oct 16, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
Anyone have any thoughts on these cars? As in , what type of car is this?
 
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: what type of car is this?

Rich C
 

I mentioned to Claus earlier that they could be in "hide" service. That would make sense with hatches on the roof and sides. I also agree that if they were hogfuel types the roof would have been removed. Now the cars only seem to have a number and no visible reporting marks could be, as someone else mentioned, online service only. It is definitely on the Milwaukee Road or on a line adjacent to the Milwaukee. Might be interesting research


Rich Christie


Re: QUESTION ON FRISCO BOX CART BRAKES

Allan Smith
 

NMRA Magazine January 2011 has an article about the rebuilding of these cars. The plan diagram shows AB brakes on these cars


Al Smith
Sonora CA

On Saturday, October 16, 2021, 02:12:24 PM PDT, Clark Propst via groups.io <cepropst@...> wrote:


I'm about finished building that old kit. PIA! According to the instruction history and the RP Cyc on rebuilt DS cars all were equipped with AB brakes and Ajax hand brakes when rebuilt.
Clark Propst


Re: Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements

Jeffrey Gray <bigsix@...>
 

Gentlemen,  I am in agreement on the 155 Howitzer (tires and the barrel snoot under the canvas). My father, WW2, 8” Howitzers, his outfit used M4 tractors. He told me some outfits had “big” trucks, which he referred to as “Brockway’s”. 10 ton?  Also, on the gun on the flatcar notice both the large timber runners under the gun carriage and also the wood wheel chocks. Also, the timbers on outside of M5 tracks. Hi, Hi, Hee!

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 6:41 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements

 

155mm guns are possible … they do look too heavy for the 75mm guns. As for tractors, they used most anything that would pull them. That depended on the country to be crossed. The original tractor for the 155mm guns were 7.5-ton Mack NO 6X6 trucks. .The ubiquitous 2.5-ton CCKW 6X6s were too light for the heavier guns (except on decent roads). The M4 and M5 “high-speed” tracked tractors were a better solution with far better cross-country performance. The M4s seemed to be used mostly for the 155mm guns, 8” howitzers, and 120mm AA guns. The smaller M5 tractors were mostly used for 105mm and 90mm AA guns. The larger M6 tractors were for the 120mm AA and 240mm guns. All this was HIGHLY variable. You used what you had, or tried to. Such tractors also pulled ammo and utility trailers of every description. Also present were all manner of de-turreted older tanks used as tractors.

 

Dan Mitchell

==========



On Oct 16, 2021, at 6:17 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:

 

I’d be more inclined towards 155mm guns. 105/75mm would not likely have artillery tractors. 

 

 

 

Thanks!

Brian Ehni

<image001.png>

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Daniel A. Mitchell" <danmitch@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 5:13 PM
To: "main@realstmfc.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements

 

The first photo is of M5 artillery tractors with towed field-pieces (probably 105mm, possibly 75mm).

 

The second photo shows a GMC CCKW “deuce-and-a-half” 6X6 and a Dodge weapons-carrier on the same flat.

 

Dan Mitchell

==========




On Oct 16, 2021, at 5:43 PM, james murrie via groups.io <bi291@...> wrote:

 

This one appears to be a 6x6 on an EJ&E flat.
https://digital.lib.ecu.edu/4303

Jim Murrie 

 

<image001.png>

 

 


Re: Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

155mm guns are possible … they do look too heavy for the 75mm guns. As for tractors, they used most anything that would pull them. That depended on the country to be crossed. The original tractor for the 155mm guns were 7.5-ton Mack NO 6X6 trucks. .The ubiquitous 2.5-ton CCKW 6X6s were too light for the heavier guns (except on decent roads). The M4 and M5 “high-speed” tracked tractors were a better solution with far better cross-country performance. The M4s seemed to be used mostly for the 155mm guns, 8” howitzers, and 120mm AA guns. The smaller M5 tractors were mostly used for 105mm and 90mm AA guns. The larger M6 tractors were for the 120mm AA and 240mm guns. All this was HIGHLY variable. You used what you had, or tried to. Such tractors also pulled ammo and utility trailers of every description. Also present were all manner of de-turreted older tanks used as tractors.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Oct 16, 2021, at 6:17 PM, BRIAN PAUL EHNI <bpehni@...> wrote:

I’d be more inclined towards 155mm guns. 105/75mm would not likely have artillery tractors. 
 
 
 
Thanks!
Brian Ehni
<image001.png>
 
From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Daniel A. Mitchell" <danmitch@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 5:13 PM
To: "main@realstmfc.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements
 
The first photo is of M5 artillery tractors with towed field-pieces (probably 105mm, possibly 75mm).
 
The second photo shows a GMC CCKW “deuce-and-a-half” 6X6 and a Dodge weapons-carrier on the same flat.
 
Dan Mitchell
==========


On Oct 16, 2021, at 5:43 PM, james murrie via groups.io <bi291@...> wrote:
 
This one appears to be a 6x6 on an EJ&E flat.
https://digital.lib.ecu.edu/4303

Jim Murrie 
 

<image001.png>


Re: what type of car is this?

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

Most likely they are wood-chip cars, often called “Hog Fuel” cars. Usually they are rebuilt boxcars. The only thing unusual about them is the roof with hatches ... usually these are just left open-topped. They probably have no bottom-dump hatches, they dump out of low-mounted side doors (plainly seen in these photos).

“Hog Fuel” consists of coarse wood waste … mostly much larger chunks than sawdust. The name comes from the big wood-chipper that most sawmills used to break up the left-over slash unfit for lumber … the chipper was called a “Hog”. The “Hog Fuel” could also contain small blocks … cut-offs from timbers cut to standard lengths. A common use for such material was fuel for the MANY "donkey” engines used in the lumber woods, as well as small boilers on most any steam engines (NOT necessarily steam locomotives).

Dan Mitchell
========== 

On Oct 16, 2021, at 2:17 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
Anyone have any thoughts on these cars? As in , what type of car is this?
 
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements

 

I’d be more inclined towards 155mm guns. 105/75mm would not likely have artillery tractors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M114_155_mm_howitzer

 

 

 

Thanks!

Brian Ehni

signature_1472804094

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Daniel A. Mitchell" <danmitch@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Saturday, October 16, 2021 at 5:13 PM
To: "main@realstmfc.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements

 

The first photo is of M5 artillery tractors with towed field-pieces (probably 105mm, possibly 75mm).

 

The second photo shows a GMC CCKW “deuce-and-a-half” 6X6 and a Dodge weapons-carrier on the same flat.

 

Dan Mitchell

==========



On Oct 16, 2021, at 5:43 PM, james murrie via groups.io <bi291@...> wrote:

 

This one appears to be a 6x6 on an EJ&E flat.
https://digital.lib.ecu.edu/4303

Jim Murrie

 


Re: Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements

Bill Parks
 

If you are interested in accurately modelling how military vehicles were secured to flat cars, the technical manuals (TM) from WW2 for most vehicles can be found on-line.  The manuals all were numbered "TM-9_###", with the ### being a number specific to a vehicle.  As an example, TM-9-801 was for the deuce and a half.

The manual contain everything you want to know about operating and maintaining the vehicles, and the last section is about how to transport them via rail, and include photos, drawing for proper blocking and tie downs.


--
Bill Parks
Cumming, GA
Modelling the Seaboard Airline in Central Florida


Re: Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

The first photo is of M5 artillery tractors with towed field-pieces (probably 105mm, possibly 75mm).

The second photo shows a GMC CCKW “deuce-and-a-half” 6X6 and a Dodge weapons-carrier on the same flat.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On Oct 16, 2021, at 5:43 PM, james murrie via groups.io <bi291@...> wrote:

This one appears to be a 6x6 on an EJ&E flat.
https://digital.lib.ecu.edu/4303

Jim Murrie


Re: what type of car is this?

David Soderblom
 

If concrete, then there’d be gray all over the sides.

Sent from my tricorder


Re: Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements

james murrie
 

This one appears to be a 6x6 on an EJ&E flat.
https://digital.lib.ecu.edu/4303

Jim Murrie


Re: Pacific Coast ds trussrod boxcars

Eric Hansmann
 

Outside hung brake beams on all of these cars. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Oct 16, 2021, at 4:01 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
Pacific Coast ds trussrod boxcars
 
PC 4080 & 4088
 
 
PC 4088
 
 
PC 4088 & 4080
 
 
PC 4528
 
 

Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund


Re: NP 21666 ds trusrod box circa 1930 Seattle WA with Pacific Coast loco 10

Eric Hansmann
 

Nice paper door seal on the NP boxcar!


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Oct 16, 2021, at 3:53 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi List Members,
 
NP 21666 ds trusrod box circa 1930 Seattle WA with Pacific Coast loco 10
 


Re: QUESTION ON FRISCO BOX CART BRAKES

Clark Propst
 

I'm about finished building that old kit. PIA! According to the instruction history and the RP Cyc on rebuilt DS cars all were equipped with AB brakes and Ajax hand brakes when rebuilt.
Clark Propst


Re: Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements

Steve SANDIFER
 

This one is in the same collection. I can’t read the reporting marks, but the closeup will show the blocking and the use of wire to hold the vehicles on the flat.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of james murrie via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2021 3:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements

 

Bob;
Do you mean something like this ?
https://digital.lib.ecu.edu/4301

Jim Murrie


Pacific Coast ds trussrod boxcars

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 


Columbia & Puget Sounds 163 ds trusrod box circa 1910 Renton WA

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Columbia & Puget Sounds 163 ds trusrod box circa 1910 Renton WA
 


NP 21666 ds trusrod box circa 1930 Seattle WA with Pacific Coast loco 10

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 

Hi List Members,
 
NP 21666 ds trusrod box circa 1930 Seattle WA with Pacific Coast loco 10
 


Re: Late 40's to mid 50's military rail movements

james murrie
 

Bob;
Do you mean something like this ?
https://digital.lib.ecu.edu/4301

Jim Murrie

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