Date   

Re: Question: When Did Scrap Metal Bailers Come Into General Use?

Matt Smith
 

Scrap bailers were around for the war effort. Morris Tick Scrap 1942, served by the IT and later Peoria & Eastern.

http://idaillinois.org/digital/collection/p16614coll62/id/30668/rec/30

http://idaillinois.org/digital/collection/p16614coll62/id/26737/rec/190

http://idaillinois.org/digital/collection/p16614coll62/id/30412/rec/180


--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL


Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] F&C Lehigh Valley ‘wrong way’ boxcar question

passcars
 

Centerline of body bolsters are probably 5'-0" from end sill instead of the more common 5'-6".

Steve Peery


Re: Question: When Did Scrap Metal Bailers Come Into General Use?

Mike Clements
 

There is a Jim Shaughnessey photo in the Carstens Lehigh & New England softcover of a LV gon carrying a load of cube shaped scrap bales out of Maybrook, NY. It is unfortunately undated, but would be pre-1961 since that is when L&NE gave up the ghost. I would guess late 1950s based on the weathering on the LNE FAs. The reweigh date looks like 1954 or 1956 but is really hard to read.
--
Mike Clements
Wakefield, MA
nyc65.wordpress.com


Re: Cranberry Boxcar

Mike Clements
 

I believe that is an ex-Sandy River & Rangely Lakes 2' gauge boxcar that was at Edaville in Carver, MA which was built around Ellis D Atwood's cranberry bog which was a member of the Ocean Spray co-op. 

Mike Clements
Wakefield, MA
nyc65.wordpress.com


Re: Cranberry Boxcar

Jeff Helm
 

Bob, thanks for sharing, cool car.  Do you know where it is located?  Ocean Spray has a manufacturing plant in Markham, near Aberdeen, on the Washington state coast.  I presume they once shipped by rail, although they are not directly rail served.  It would appear to be a recent static marketing display, no reporting marks on the car.
--
Cheers

Jeff Helm
The Olympic Peninsula Branch
https://olympicpeninsulabranch.blogspot.com/


Re: Question: When Did Scrap Metal Bailers Come Into General Use?

Will Jamison
 
Edited

Found this on line.

Will Jamison

Logemann Brothers Company was founded in 1882 in Milwaukee Wisconsin as a manufacturer of heavy machinery by Adolph and Rudolph Logemann. During these formative years Logemann manufactured, label cutting presses, leather presses, shaft straighteners, tumbling mills, hide stamping machines, and other equipment for a variety of industries.
In 1904 Logemann invented the first toggle type baling press complete with a wooden box. This same year Logemann applied for patents for the first hydraulic type paper baler. A hydraulic triplex pump was added in 1909 and one year later the first hydraulic scrap metal balers known as our Models 10P and larger 11P were manufactured. Finally, the first triple compression scrap metal baler was built in 1935 to handle growing demand for large volume manufacturing scrap processing systems.
Since 1905 Logemann has continued to produce cutting edge baling presses for numerous standard and custom applications including waste paper, metal, cotton and other fibers.
Find out why many of the worlds largest corporations have been relying on Logemann’s quality construction equipment for decades.


Re: Question: When Did Scrap Metal Bailers Come Into General Use?

Bruce Hendrick
 

Years ago a fellow visited the Corona Model Railroad Society who stated that our scape metal bails at our Riverside junk yard were not appropriate to our 1949 target timeframe. I believe he had been in the scrap metal business for years. (The bails remain because up until this thread it was our dirty little secret.)

Bruce Hendrick
CMRS


Re: Question: When Did Scrap Metal Bailers Come Into General Use?

Bob Chaparro
 

I'm not asking about shredders.
I am asking about bailers. They are different. Take a look at the model photo. These are bales, not shredded scrap.
Perhaps you remember the car crusher scene from Goldfinger.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Cranberry Boxcar

Bob Chaparro
 

Cranberry Boxcar

I was doing a little research on the Great Cranberry Scare of 1959 and I came across this boxcar painted in a promotional scheme.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Texas and New Orleans B50-15 boxcar

Paul Doggett
 

Hi Bob 

Thank you.

Paul Doggett.


On 21 Nov 2021, at 18:26, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Note that the car number is stenciled on the underframe.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Texas and New Orleans B50-15 boxcar

Bob Chaparro
 

Note that the car number is stenciled on the underframe.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Question: When Did Scrap Metal Bailers Come Into General Use?

Scott H. Haycock
 

Back in circa 1970-71, I worked for a salvage yard that had a car shredder. It looked very similar to an online photo of Newell's early design. While he received his patent in 1969, but applied for it in 1965. That fits with my memory, as the machine they had was several years old.

While I worked there, we had a few interesting times with that machine. 

They had a guy who inspected incoming cars for fuel tanks. No fuel tanks in the shredder was a serious safety rule, though one would occasionally get through.  There was a large overhead bin that collected dirt, upholstery, plastic, etc. through a vacuum/cyclone system. This bin emptied into a dump truck. Once there was an explosion in the mill that lifted that steel bin, support structure and all, about 4-5 feet in the air, and dumped it on its side. The mill operator told me that their was probably less than a gallon of fuel in that car.  

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 11/21/2021 8:35 AM Ray Hutchison <rayhutchison2@...> wrote:


Probably 1969:

This machine, designed by Alton S. Newell, efficiently reduced automobile bodies into scrap metal for recycling. A body was fed into the shredder at a controlled rate, and rotating hammers, driven by a 500-hp motor, shredded it into small pieces that were easily shipped. The process took about 10 minutes a car and used less energy than other shredding and crushing machines. A one-time junkyard manager, Newell learned how to scrap cars by hand (10 hours a car). By the late 1950s, he was operating scrap processing plants across the southeast United States. Remembering metal-can shredders and grain crushers for silo storage, he began to design the automobile shredder. The quality of the resulting material allowed him to market it to steel mills for reuse. The system that he developed by 1965 avoided pollution caused by previous methods that burned nonmetallic parts to remove them from processing. It allowed the system to reject unshreadable scrap, had a smaller affordable motor, and discharged scrap in a way that eliminated the need for large, expensive foundations. His patent was granted in 1969. The second Newell shredder, called a 36104 top-discharge shredder, is the landmark now on display at the company's plant in San Antonio .

(American Society of Mechanical Engineers)

Bio

Alton Newell was born to an 
Oklahoma family of migrant workers in 1913. During his childhood his family moved to California where Newell was forced to cease his schooling in the 10th grade in order to help support his family. After working a variety of jobs, Newell found himself in the position of managing a scrap yard. Tasked with scrapping cars by hand, which required one man ten hours of work to complete, Newell sought to find a more efficient method. In 1938, Newell moved to Texas and bought a small scrap yard and constructed a portable metal baler to assist in processing scrap metal.  Having expanded his scrap business to incorporate a number of plants across the Southwest, Newell recognized the need for tin for use in copper mining. Taking inspiration from a grain crusher he had seen as a child in Kansas, he designed a shredding machine to process tin cans.

This machine provided the basis for the design of a larger shredder capable of processing ferrous material such as that found in automobiles. What is now known as the Newell Shredder originated from this machine, a 500 HP (370 KW) top-discharge shredder incorporating a limited feed device that controlled the rate at which materials entered the machine. This design also included a "reject door" that allowed the machine to reject unshreddable materials, greatly reducing downtime. This machine was significantly smaller and more efficient than previous designs which had used motors as large as 6,000 HP (4,440 KW). Due to the novel features which Newell incorporated, he applied for a patent in 1965. He was granted patent number 3,482,788 in 1969.

(wikipedia)


Re: Question: When Did Scrap Metal Bailers Come Into General Use?

Ray Hutchison
 

Probably 1969:

This machine, designed by Alton S. Newell, efficiently reduced automobile bodies into scrap metal for recycling. A body was fed into the shredder at a controlled rate, and rotating hammers, driven by a 500-hp motor, shredded it into small pieces that were easily shipped. The process took about 10 minutes a car and used less energy than other shredding and crushing machines. A one-time junkyard manager, Newell learned how to scrap cars by hand (10 hours a car). By the late 1950s, he was operating scrap processing plants across the southeast United States. Remembering metal-can shredders and grain crushers for silo storage, he began to design the automobile shredder. The quality of the resulting material allowed him to market it to steel mills for reuse. The system that he developed by 1965 avoided pollution caused by previous methods that burned nonmetallic parts to remove them from processing. It allowed the system to reject unshreadable scrap, had a smaller affordable motor, and discharged scrap in a way that eliminated the need for large, expensive foundations. His patent was granted in 1969. The second Newell shredder, called a 36104 top-discharge shredder, is the landmark now on display at the company's plant in San Antonio .

(American Society of Mechanical Engineers)

Bio

Alton Newell was born to an 
Oklahoma family of migrant workers in 1913. During his childhood his family moved to California where Newell was forced to cease his schooling in the 10th grade in order to help support his family. After working a variety of jobs, Newell found himself in the position of managing a scrap yard. Tasked with scrapping cars by hand, which required one man ten hours of work to complete, Newell sought to find a more efficient method. In 1938, Newell moved to Texas and bought a small scrap yard and constructed a portable metal baler to assist in processing scrap metal.  Having expanded his scrap business to incorporate a number of plants across the Southwest, Newell recognized the need for tin for use in copper mining. Taking inspiration from a grain crusher he had seen as a child in Kansas, he designed a shredding machine to process tin cans.

This machine provided the basis for the design of a larger shredder capable of processing ferrous material such as that found in automobiles. What is now known as the Newell Shredder originated from this machine, a 500 HP (370 KW) top-discharge shredder incorporating a limited feed device that controlled the rate at which materials entered the machine. This design also included a "reject door" that allowed the machine to reject unshreddable materials, greatly reducing downtime. This machine was significantly smaller and more efficient than previous designs which had used motors as large as 6,000 HP (4,440 KW). Due to the novel features which Newell incorporated, he applied for a patent in 1965. He was granted patent number 3,482,788 in 1969.

(wikipedia)


Re: Texas and New Orleans B50-15 boxcar

Paul Doggett
 

Keith 

Thank you very for all your trouble they a very useful photos.
Paul Doggett.


On 21 Nov 2021, at 03:33, Keith Retterer <rettererk56@...> wrote:

More attachments for you, Paul.  Here is a T&NO B-50-13 builder's photo. I attach this because of the door hardware that you mentioned was on the right side of the door.  Sure enough, here it is.  The data on the reverse indicates this has Allen Door Fixtures.  You can see the differences here between the two boxcars with Camel fixtures and Allen fixtures.
Keith R.

Attachments:


Question: When Did Scrap Metal Bailers Come Into General Use?

Bob Chaparro
 

Question: When Did Scrap Metal Bailers Come Into General Use?

At some point in the past having a load of scrap metal bales in a gondola would be unsuitable for the time period, so when did these bailers come into general use?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Texas and New Orleans B50-15 boxcar

Keith Retterer
 

More attachments for you, Paul.  Here is a T&NO B-50-13 builder's photo. I attach this because of the door hardware that you mentioned was on the right side of the door.  Sure enough, here it is.  The data on the reverse indicates this has Allen Door Fixtures.  You can see the differences here between the two boxcars with Camel fixtures and Allen fixtures.
Keith R.


Re: Texas and New Orleans B50-15 boxcar

Keith Retterer
 

Also,  I have attached a scan of the data typed on the back side of the photos.  I hope you can do something with this.
Keith R.


Re: Texas and New Orleans B50-15 boxcar

Paul Doggett
 

Hi Keith 

Thank you for the photos the T&NO cars had a different door latch which was on the right of the door instead of the left. .

Many thanks 
Paul Doggett.    England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 21 Nov 2021, at 02:38, Keith Retterer <rettererk56@...> wrote:

Hey Paul,  I have attached 3 images of the SSCC builder's photos of SP 15229, showing an SP class B-50-15 boxcar, built in 1925. It is sub lettered "Central Pacific".  Could this be the same boxcar as the T&NO you are modeling?  Would these be any help to you?
Keith R.

Attachments:


Re: Texas and New Orleans B50-15 boxcar

Keith Retterer
 

Hey Paul,  I have attached 3 images of the SSCC builder's photos of SP 15229, showing an SP class B-50-15 boxcar, built in 1925. It is sub lettered "Central Pacific".  Could this be the same boxcar as the T&NO you are modeling?  Would these be any help to you?
Keith R.


Re: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] F&C Lehigh Valley ‘wrong way’ boxcar question

Tony Thompson
 

Sorry, meant to write “Brian.”    Tony


On Nov 20, 2021, at 2:58 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

 Roan is absolutely right. Your hafta do it.

Sent from my 
 
Coating them is SOP for F&C decals. Not matter how old. 

Brian J. Carlson 

5041 - 5060 of 193481