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Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Tim O'Connor
 


Nicely built models, but both are slightly incorrect just because they use the
post-1953 PS-1 body of Intermountain. These CGW cars were built in 1951.

Tim O'Connor


On 11/29/2021 9:03 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

Here is a photo of the two models Mike had done.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 10:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee CGW box car oops?

 

The original CGW car was maroon. Many of their special service cars were maroon. I say many because the LCL and hide cars were black. Now the shade of maroon is up for almost constant debate  ;  )) Kadee has trouble with colored cars. I'll leave it at that. Years back Mike Porter commissioned Intermountain to do three maroon CGW PS 1s including this one of a kind. IM got the color right. After much prodding by Mike. 
Clark Propst

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Tim O'Connor
 

Clark

That's the darkest maroon I've seen yet. That photo is two years after the car was painted in
1959. Here's another car, CGW 5119, next to more conventionally painted cars (which I would
characterize as 'maroon-ish'). This photo is dated 1965, 6 years after the car was painted.

Kadee has made many mistakes - to be expected, when you do hundreds of cars. Even Tangent has
been known to release mistaken paint colors.

Tim O'Connor

On 11/28/2021 11:23 PM, Clark Propst via groups.io wrote:
The original CGW car was maroon. Many of their special service cars were maroon. I say many because the LCL and hide cars were black. Now the shade of maroon is up for almost constant debate ;  )) Kadee has trouble with colored cars. I'll leave it at that. Years back Mike Porter commissioned Intermountain to do three maroon CGW PS 1s including this one of a kind. IM got the color right. After much prodding by Mike.
Clark Propst
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*
Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Douglas Harding
 

CGW boxcar color varied, just like their diesels. CGW modelers are constantly trying to pinpoint what is CGW maroon?

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Shumaker
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 8:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee CGW box car oops?

 

Are you referring to the color shift?  That slide looks off to me, everything else is too dark as well. I’ve seen other pics of these special cars which appear lighter.  In the eye of the beholder, I guess.
Brian Shumaker

Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Douglas Harding
 

Here is a photo of the two models Mike had done.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 10:23 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee CGW box car oops?

 

The original CGW car was maroon. Many of their special service cars were maroon. I say many because the LCL and hide cars were black. Now the shade of maroon is up for almost constant debate  ;  )) Kadee has trouble with colored cars. I'll leave it at that. Years back Mike Porter commissioned Intermountain to do three maroon CGW PS 1s including this one of a kind. IM got the color right. After much prodding by Mike. 
Clark Propst

Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Brian Shumaker
 

Yup, Clark. Sadly, I sold my set off years back.

Brian
Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Owen Thorne - owen at udel.edu
 

Big thank you to all replied with IC auto car info and ideas.

Huge thanks to Jeff White who's photos and hard-fought diagram shares give me much of what I need to plan some kitbashes.
 
Couple of thoughts:
  1. MDC/Roundhouse models have radial (Murphy?) roofs but as the IC diagrams show Hutchins Dry Lading peaked roofs, the Walthers seems a better starting point.
  2. Walthers' 3-3-3 "outie" early Dreadnought ends seem like a match for 40250-40499 and for 40200-40249 with a Dreadnought end-door.
  3. Sides are correct Howe-truss but the panel to left of doors requires some thinkin' (or lookin' the other way) as original 10' opening was widened by IC to 12' maybe when new steel doors were installed? (see note alluding to A5574 door widening on diagram) There are always compromises in modeling HO freight cars, especially bashes or upgrades of old tooling.
  4. Either MDC or Walthers would require prototype modelers to remove molded-on details, install Ajax power AB brake systems, safety appliances and most likely repaint and restencil. Crafting side sill extensions, gussets, end sills and detail upgrades are all pro forma. As Walthers has correct end rib and roof configurations, that wins it for me. 
  5. The earlier 40000-40089, 40100-40149 have 5-5-7 (top to bottom) Murphy "outie" ends. 40150-40199 have 5-5-7 B-end and Murphy A-end-doors. All these ends would need to be cut out and new ones scrounged using either model. The challenges with the side panel left of door also remain as some had 12' openings, others 10' (4'+6',) wood doors upgraded during WWII with steel sheets over lower fifth of each door and these need to be scratched or scrounged.1
  6. Still others had the left door removed or nailed shut. Some were renumbered 34990-34999 and assigned to hide loading and Jeff's IC diagram show Universal brake and a "stemwinder" with horizontal hand wheel. This was likely pre-war as power brakes and steel door panels were not applied. Maybe more were converted postwar - see Jeff's shot of 34861 which does not show in my 1955 ORER and does have the steel door sheets and power brake applied. Waste not, want not.
If anyone knows of additional info, photos, or drawings of these classes, please share. I just ordered new decal sets from Tichy as my old Walthers and Champ IC sets may not make it even with a coating. Over 400 of these interesting cars were still around in 1955, listed as XM, auto loader duties having been ceded to newer, taller steel cars. While a minority in an IC fleet of nearly 20,000 boxcars, there is no reason they wouldn't travel widely so I plan to build a couple and if it works out I will share. I am old enough to remember when these MDC and Walthers 50' autocar kits were new releases!

Thank you, all,

Owen Thorne  - owen at udel dot edu
Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Clark Propst
 

The original CGW car was maroon. Many of their special service cars were maroon. I say many because the LCL and hide cars were black. Now the shade of maroon is up for almost constant debate  ;  )) Kadee has trouble with colored cars. I'll leave it at that. Years back Mike Porter commissioned Intermountain to do three maroon CGW PS 1s including this one of a kind. IM got the color right. After much prodding by Mike. 
Clark Propst
Re: PRR F-41 Underbody

George Eichelberger
 

Which GSC car is this? There are multiple drawings for several in the SRHA archives.

Ike
Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Andy Jackson
 

Who says this one image shows Thee correct CGW paint scheme? Pretty surr Kadee does a lot of good research on freight car paint colors before making their cars.
Andy Jackson
Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Brian Shumaker
 

Are you referring to the color shift?  That slide looks off to me, everything else is too dark as well. I’ve seen other pics of these special cars which appear lighter.  In the eye of the beholder, I guess.
Brian Shumaker
Re: PRR F-41 Underbody

Todd Sullivan
 

Tim & others,

Your reply causes me to wonder if the Walthers kit had brake rigging or at least components on their model.  Alas, I can't check as I sold my last one years ago (later than 1952, which is my modeling date).

Todd Sullivan
Looking for Sunshine Instruction Sheet

bn2204
 

G'Day Everyone,

A friend of mine recently purchased Sunshine Kit 30.10,  which is the B&O P-11 Flatcar. The kit was without instructions, and I was wondering if anyone has a copy of the instructions they would be willing to scan, and forward to me?

Thanks and Best Regards,

Darrall Swift  - LaGrange,  Ohio 
Modeling the BN/MILW in North Central Montana, Great Falls to Shelby,  Circa: August-September 1979
Re: PRR F-41 Underbody

Tim O'Connor
 


I suspect it's the same as every other General Steel Castings flat car of that era.

On 11/27/2021 5:45 PM, Lester Breuer wrote:
My friend is looking for photo or drawing of a PRR F-41 flat car underside. He has a Tichy Train Group PRR F-41 Flat Car Kit . The kit had no detail needed for underside.  He would like to add the AB brake Rigging under the car. The Kit was made for the Pittsburgh Limited 1996 Mid central region 50th anniversary convention. He has been unable to find any information for the underside on this PRR flat car.
Thank You for your time and effort to help.
Lester Breuer


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: Question: When Did Scrap Metal Bailers Come Into General Use?

Tim O'Connor
 

This car also appears to have baled steel cubes, but not automobile-sized bales.

On 11/22/2021 8:53 AM, Matt Smith wrote:
Scrap bailers were around for the war effort. Morris Tick Scrap 1942, served by the IT and later Peoria & Eastern.

http://idaillinois.org/digital/collection/p16614coll62/id/30668/rec/30

http://idaillinois.org/digital/collection/p16614coll62/id/26737/rec/190

http://idaillinois.org/digital/collection/p16614coll62/id/30412/rec/180


--
Matt Smith
Bloomington, IL
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*
Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

And how!

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Nov 28, 2021, at 4:24 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Looks like Kadee really missed the boat on this model (images attached)
--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Kadee CGW box car oops?

Tim O'Connor
 


Looks like Kadee really missed the boat on this model (images attached)
--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Ken Adams
 

Thanks Jeff,

As a steam era box car addict, I don't know if I will ever build one of these cars or modify an old MDC Roundhouse kit but I have saved the documentation as it is almost everything I could want. An underfloor drawing is all that would be needed to scratch or bash a model with fairly good accuracy.
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io
Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks, Jeff.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeffrey White
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 1:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Ok that worked. Here are the rest of them:

Jeff White

Alma IL

On 11/28/2021 1:40 PM, Jeffrey White wrote:

Damn they compressed again. I printed the sheet from the .pdf and scanned it, saved as a .jpg  I have no idea why it's compressing them. I've never had that problem before.

Let's try this:

On 11/28/2021 12:55 PM, Jeffrey White wrote:

Sorry, they weren't compressed before  hit send.  Try these:

Jeff Whte

Alma IL

On 11/27/2021 3:39 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

The car diagrams are compressed horizontally. Please send them uncompressed.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeffrey White
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2021 2:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Owen,

Here are the diagram sheets for all of the IC 50 foot SS double door cars including door and a half cars from the 1954 diagram book.

 

And some photos:

I have used the old Roundhouse car for my IC 50ft Single Sheathed cars.  I hope this information helps.

Jeff White

Alma IL

On 11/26/2021 9:00 PM, Owen Thorne wrote:

Hello group,
Beyond a brief mention within this 12 y.o. discussion of using the HO Walthers 50' single sheathed automobile boxcar kit to represent an IC prototype series, I have found little further info searching our archive, or in other groups.io discussion groups. I may have missed something.

  1. How could one bash an IC double-door boxcar using the Walthers kit?
  2. Has anyone a source for a photo or photos of a prototype car?
  3. How about an IC company diagram?

Thank you,
Owen Thorne

Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Jeffrey White
 

Ok that worked. Here are the rest of them:

Jeff White

Alma IL

On 11/28/2021 1:40 PM, Jeffrey White wrote:

Damn they compressed again. I printed the sheet from the .pdf and scanned it, saved as a .jpg  I have no idea why it's compressing them. I've never had that problem before.

Let's try this:

On 11/28/2021 12:55 PM, Jeffrey White wrote:

Sorry, they weren't compressed before  hit send.  Try these:

Jeff Whte

Alma IL

On 11/27/2021 3:39 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

The car diagrams are compressed horizontally. Please send them uncompressed.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeffrey White
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2021 2:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Owen,

Here are the diagram sheets for all of the IC 50 foot SS double door cars including door and a half cars from the 1954 diagram book.

 

And some photos:

I have used the old Roundhouse car for my IC 50ft Single Sheathed cars.  I hope this information helps.

Jeff White

Alma IL

On 11/26/2021 9:00 PM, Owen Thorne wrote:

Hello group,
Beyond a brief mention within this 12 y.o. discussion of using the HO Walthers 50' single sheathed automobile boxcar kit to represent an IC prototype series, I have found little further info searching our archive, or in other groups.io discussion groups. I may have missed something.

  1. How could one bash an IC double-door boxcar using the Walthers kit?
  2. Has anyone a source for a photo or photos of a prototype car?
  3. How about an IC company diagram?

Thank you,
Owen Thorne

Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Jeffrey White
 

Damn they compressed again. I printed the sheet from the .pdf and scanned it, saved as a .jpg  I have no idea why it's compressing them. I've never had that problem before.

Let's try this:

On 11/28/2021 12:55 PM, Jeffrey White wrote:

Sorry, they weren't compressed before  hit send.  Try these:

Jeff Whte

Alma IL

On 11/27/2021 3:39 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

The car diagrams are compressed horizontally. Please send them uncompressed.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeffrey White
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2021 2:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Owen,

Here are the diagram sheets for all of the IC 50 foot SS double door cars including door and a half cars from the 1954 diagram book.

 

And some photos:

I have used the old Roundhouse car for my IC 50ft Single Sheathed cars.  I hope this information helps.

Jeff White

Alma IL

On 11/26/2021 9:00 PM, Owen Thorne wrote:

Hello group,
Beyond a brief mention within this 12 y.o. discussion of using the HO Walthers 50' single sheathed automobile boxcar kit to represent an IC prototype series, I have found little further info searching our archive, or in other groups.io discussion groups. I may have missed something.

  1. How could one bash an IC double-door boxcar using the Walthers kit?
  2. Has anyone a source for a photo or photos of a prototype car?
  3. How about an IC company diagram?

Thank you,
Owen Thorne

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