Date   

Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Todd Sullivan
 

Hide cars were any boxcars that were unfit for most kinds of loading - grain, finished lumber, merchandise, etc.  They tended to have rough interiors (worn out, interior sheathing splintered, with holes).  Once a car was loaded wiht green hides, you  NEVER loaded it with anything else.  Oh, and they smelled terrible!

Todd Sullivan


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Nelson Moyer
 

Most of the hide cars I’ve seen modeled were 40 ft. steel boxcars. Was that pretty standard, or were SS boxcars also used?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Owen, hides can indeed be heavy. Sometime in the 50s packing plants switched from salting dry hides to soaking hides in a brine solution and shipping them wet. Wet hides are indeed much heavier than dry hides.

 

As to interchange. Hides came from slaughter houses, ie packing plants. Most of which were located in the Mid-West, ie Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, St Paul, Sioux City, etc. And you will find that many tanneries were located out east, New England, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Tennessee, etc. A IC hide car would most likely be in captive service. It could be loaded with hides online in Chicago, Dubuque, Waterloo, Fort Dodge, Omaha, Sioux City and other locations. But the raw hides would be headed east, interchanged most likely at Chicago to any of many eastern roads.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Douglas Harding
 

Owen, hides can indeed be heavy. Sometime in the 50s packing plants switched from salting dry hides to soaking hides in a brine solution and shipping them wet. Wet hides are indeed much heavier than dry hides.

 

As to interchange. Hides came from slaughter houses, ie packing plants. Most of which were located in the Mid-West, ie Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, St Paul, Sioux City, etc. And you will find that many tanneries were located out east, New England, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Tennessee, etc. A IC hide car would most likely be in captive service. It could be loaded with hides online in Chicago, Dubuque, Waterloo, Fort Dodge, Omaha, Sioux City and other locations. But the raw hides would be headed east, interchanged most likely at Chicago to any of many eastern roads.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Owen Thorne
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 3:34 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Thank you, Jeff,

I can almost smell that hide car through my screen! 

Interesting that car IC 34861 in your photo does not match the diagram you sent for the earlier group of 50' s/s IC hide cars, 34990-99, embedded in the diagram for 40000-40089, which indicates "no metal panel," that the left door "closed" but not indicated, noted or shown as having been removed, and a "stemwinder" Universal brake wheel retained at that late date (1954?) As this new photo is of a power-brake equipped, wooden but steel reinforced door car in a new number series for me, I looked it up in ORER 1959 and found 34890-99 the closest series (ten cars) but not a match. So this conversion may have been either after our STMFC period or "off the books."

The CU FT 4303 of the hide car listings matches that of the three IC non-end-door equipped 50' composite autocar groups. Curious is the increase in CAPY from 75000 to 100000 lbs. Is this likely just a truck/bearing upgrade? The earlier discussed 34990-99 matching your diagram also showed this CAPY increase when they appeared in the 1955 ORER. Were hides so heavy?

In the 1959 ORER there is also a group of 74 (up from 68 in 1955) 40' 40t composite 6' door, small boxcars in 34900-34989 series so, IC guys, are all the 34xxx-series cars in the late-steam era hide cars?

Finally, how likely would IC hide cars be interchanged to deliver to a leather works in, say, Wilmington, DE, or Philadelphia, PA?

Thank you,
Owen Thorne 
owen at udel dot edu


Re: Photos of NC&StL 70100-70199 and SP&S 32005-32054 41' Flatcar Ends

Todd Sullivan
 

Ken -

Nice work on the SP&S flat.  I have two of these models built, and want to letter them SP&S as well.  I thought through the decal options you discussed without buying any, and decided that perhaps the  best approach is to use Microscale's 1/8" size from their No. 90001 Railroad Roman Letters and Numbers - White set.  I think the prototype lettering size for the initials and number on these flat cars was 10", so 1/8" in HO should be close.  Once I do the decalling -perhaps next week - I will post photos and comments.  Many thanks, however, for your leading edge research, as it has confirmed some suspicions I had about lettering sizes from boxcar decal sets.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Photos of NC&StL 70100-70199 and SP&S 32005-32054 41' Flatcar Ends

Ken Adams
 

After a lot of frustration with the decal situation for this car, I finally broke down and ordered the Champ set through eBay if only because it has most of the dimensional lettering I really need.  Apparently there was no SP&S reporting marks and number set on the decal.  Also it I understand the Champ set lacks reweigh dates. I have used a K4 SP&S boxcar set for now but this results in an oversize "SP&S". The car number was however the correct size.  The boxcar set lacks number to make up accurate Load Limit and Light Weight numbers and reweigh/repack dates and locations. I tried using lettering pieced together from my fairly extensive SP collection that includes T&NO and a few other older lines with an ampersand in the RR abbreviation but nothing matched the size needed for the flat car sill.  I would love a recommendation for a smaller SP&S RR reporting abbreviation.

Note I have modified the car for an AB airbrake upgrade to fit my modeling period.  I am only a semi-prototype modeler as I do not try to replicate all of the piping. I have a narrow Owl Mountain lumber load on hand to add some additional weight to the car. 
--
Ken Adams
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Owen Thorne - owen at udel.edu
 

Thank you, Jeff,

I can almost smell that hide car through my screen! 

Interesting that car IC 34861 in your photo does not match the diagram you sent for the earlier group of 50' s/s IC hide cars, 34990-99, embedded in the diagram for 40000-40089, which indicates "no metal panel," that the left door "closed" but not indicated, noted or shown as having been removed, and a "stemwinder" Universal brake wheel retained at that late date (1954?) As this new photo is of a power-brake equipped, wooden but steel reinforced door car in a new number series for me, I looked it up in ORER 1959 and found 34890-99 the closest series (ten cars) but not a match. So this conversion may have been either after our STMFC period or "off the books."

The CU FT 4303 of the hide car listings matches that of the three IC non-end-door equipped 50' composite autocar groups. Curious is the increase in CAPY from 75000 to 100000 lbs. Is this likely just a truck/bearing upgrade? The earlier discussed 34990-99 matching your diagram also showed this CAPY increase when they appeared in the 1955 ORER. Were hides so heavy?

In the 1959 ORER there is also a group of 74 (up from 68 in 1955) 40' 40t composite 6' door, small boxcars in 34900-34989 series so, IC guys, are all the 34xxx-series cars in the late-steam era hide cars?

Finally, how likely would IC hide cars be interchanged to deliver to a leather works in, say, Wilmington, DE, or Philadelphia, PA?

Thank you,
Owen Thorne 
owen at udel dot edu


Re: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] PRR F-41 Underbody

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Guys;

 

Keep in mind, neither the Walthers nor Tichy models are accurate on deck details for a F41 (no dash).  See attached.  There are visible longitudinal members visible in the deck that are not present on the standard “Commonwealth” flat as produced by GSC.

 

The deck mods are not terrible (I have done both), but require some thought and effort.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lester Breuer
Sent: Saturday, November 27, 2021 5:46 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] PRR F-41 Underbody

 

My friend is looking for photo or drawing of a PRR F-41 flat car underside. He has a Tichy Train Group PRR F-41 Flat Car Kit . The kit had no detail needed for underside.  He would like to add the AB brake Rigging under the car. The Kit was made for the Pittsburgh Limited 1996 Mid central region 50th anniversary convention. He has been unable to find any information for the underside on this PRR flat car.

Thank You for your time and effort to help.
Lester Breuer


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Owen Thorne - owen at udel.edu
 

Hi Tim,
Thank you for adding these photos and your thoughts to the discussion. You are correct that the earlier discussion did revolve around the MDC (Roundhouse) cars as their features are better starting points to represent some other railroads' 50' s/s autocars (MP, T&P, WP, especially.)

The IC cars were different in several ways. If my understandings and research is correct, the two cars in your pictures match the earlier three of the five groups of IC 50' s/s autocars, and these did sport the 5-5-7 (top to bottom) corrugated ends (Murphy?) paired wood doors, and Hutchins roofs. See the diagrams Jeff Adams shared. While the Walthers 5800 series kit has the correct roof to model any of these earlier three IC groups, and the correct doors for at least two sub-groups (the others being 10') the ends would need to be scrounged or scratched. One of the three earlier groups also sported a Murphy end door.

But the fourth and fifth of the five groups of IC cars featured the same peaked Hutchins roof, the 11-panel, z-bar, Howe truss sides, and 3-3-3 early Dreadnought "outie" ends matching the Walthers kits, thus making them my preference for modeling these last two groups. One group of 50 IC cars also featured a Dreadnought end door like the Walthers kits, so that is another plus.

Some Frisco cars and one series of NP cars are close to Walthers with the 12' door opening, 11-panel z-bar Howe sides, and 3-3-3 "outie" Dreadnought ends matching but require builder fitting circular (NP) or radial (Frisco) roofs. Maybe next...

Were one to use any of the various 2100 series MDC (Roundhouse Athearn) kits to model any IC 50' s/s autocar, one would first need to replace the MDC radial roof, and the MDC 3-3-3 "innie" ends (a sort of 2.5-3-3 end, but pretty accurate.) These indented early Dreadnought (recessed, reverse, inverse?) were commonplace and used on several other 1920-30's 50' s/s autocars according to Richard Hendrickson's articles and photos published in RMJ in the 1990's and cited above (MP family, T&P, WP) but with radial roofs, also a feature of the MDC kits. There have been several excellent articles written detailing conversions of MDC kits to MP family, including T&P, and WP models. I do not recall anyone dealing with the MDC Roundhouse 50' s/s kits that featured a single wide door. Anyone else recall?

Thank you,
Owen Thorne


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Jeffrey White
 

Owen,

Here is a photo of a hide car.

Jeff White

Alma IL



On 11/28/2021 11:24 PM, Owen Thorne wrote:
Big thank you to all replied with IC auto car info and ideas.

Huge thanks to Jeff White who's photos and hard-fought diagram shares give me much of what I need to plan some kitbashes.
 
Couple of thoughts:
  1. MDC/Roundhouse models have radial (Murphy?) roofs but as the IC diagrams show Hutchins Dry Lading peaked roofs, the Walthers seems a better starting point.
  2. Walthers' 3-3-3 "outie" early Dreadnought ends seem like a match for 40250-40499 and for 40200-40249 with a Dreadnought end-door.
  3. Sides are correct Howe-truss but the panel to left of doors requires some thinkin' (or lookin' the other way) as original 10' opening was widened by IC to 12' maybe when new steel doors were installed? (see note alluding to A5574 door widening on diagram) There are always compromises in modeling HO freight cars, especially bashes or upgrades of old tooling.
  4. Either MDC or Walthers would require prototype modelers to remove molded-on details, install Ajax power AB brake systems, safety appliances and most likely repaint and restencil. Crafting side sill extensions, gussets, end sills and detail upgrades are all pro forma. As Walthers has correct end rib and roof configurations, that wins it for me. 
  5. The earlier 40000-40089, 40100-40149 have 5-5-7 (top to bottom) Murphy "outie" ends. 40150-40199 have 5-5-7 B-end and Murphy A-end-doors. All these ends would need to be cut out and new ones scrounged using either model. The challenges with the side panel left of door also remain as some had 12' openings, others 10' (4'+6',) wood doors upgraded during WWII with steel sheets over lower fifth of each door and these need to be scratched or scrounged.1
  6. Still others had the left door removed or nailed shut. Some were renumbered 34990-34999 and assigned to hide loading and Jeff's IC diagram show Universal brake and a "stemwinder" with horizontal hand wheel. This was likely pre-war as power brakes and steel door panels were not applied. Maybe more were converted postwar - see Jeff's shot of 34861 which does not show in my 1955 ORER and does have the steel door sheets and power brake applied. Waste not, want not.
If anyone knows of additional info, photos, or drawings of these classes, please share. I just ordered new decal sets from Tichy as my old Walthers and Champ IC sets may not make it even with a coating. Over 400 of these interesting cars were still around in 1955, listed as XM, auto loader duties having been ceded to newer, taller steel cars. While a minority in an IC fleet of nearly 20,000 boxcars, there is no reason they wouldn't travel widely so I plan to build a couple and if it works out I will share. I am old enough to remember when these MDC and Walthers 50' autocar kits were new releases!

Thank you, all,

Owen Thorne  - owen at udel dot edu


Re: MILW Gondola Painting

Tim O'Connor
 

Larry

You may be right, although I'm not sure how to walk on a vertical surface. 😂

On 11/29/2021 1:12 PM, lrkdbn via groups.io wrote:
Based on looking at many pictures of NYC composite gondolas, I would say the general practice on NYC was to leave the inside unpainted. My personal thought is that painted wood would be slippery in wet weather.
Larry King
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: MILW Gondola Painting

lrkdbn
 

On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 07:53 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Here are model and prototype views of weathered plywood interiors.

Tim O'Connor

On 11/22/2021 2:54 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

I’m painting the RCW MILW composite gondola, and I’d like to know if the wood parts (sides and floor) were painted on the inside of the car body. I’m guessing it was, but the paint didn’t last very long, so in service appearance would be weathered wood with little paint.

 

Same question for the RCW NYC steel gondola with wood floor. Was the wood floor painted?

 

Nelson Moyer



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts
Based on looking at many pictures of NYC composite gondolas, I would say the general practice on NYC was to leave the inside unpainted. My personal thought is that painted wood would be slippery in wet weather.
Larry King


Re: PLE 46145 gon with scrap tin load 1942

Tim O'Connor
 


Wow, that is outstanding! I will never toss another aluminum foil top! 😁

Tim O'Connor

On 11/26/2021 7:41 PM, leakinmywaders via groups.io wrote:
HO scale can load for a PTSX (Proleride Transportation Systems) recycled steel quad hopper. Aluminum foil tops from canned drinks, mainly Sanpellegrino,  and a few other miscellaneous foil sources sliced with scissors into 2-3" strips, rolled between the thumb and fingers, and mass trimmed to roughly 1/16-inch lengths with scissors.  A good mindless modeling activity while watching TV.   Glued with dilute white glue to a black foam core base, dulled with dustings of dark gray and red oxide chalk, affixed with Dullcote.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Michigan & Kanawha Coal Gone being unloaded

Tim O'Connor
 

So that's how the NYC got into West Virginia? Interesting. 😁

On 11/27/2021 8:36 AM, Doug Chapman via groups.io wrote:

Ralston Steel Car Company of Columbus built 1,000 of these cars for the Kanawha & Michigan, between July and September 1912. Numbered 7500-8499, these cars were later relettered (NYC) and renumbered (342500-343499) when the New York Central leased the K&M in 1922.

Doug Chapman
Montclair, VA
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Tim O'Connor
 


I think discussions revolved around using the MDC (Roundhouse) 50 foot single sheathed box cars
to model the IC and other cars. But I could be mistaken. The Walthers cars have 3-3-3 dreadnaught
ends and Roundhouse cars have the earlier Murphy (?) ends.

Tim O'Connor


On 11/26/2021 10:00 PM, Owen Thorne wrote:
Hello group,
Beyond a brief mention within this 12 y.o. discussion of using the HO Walthers 50' single sheathed automobile boxcar kit to represent an IC prototype series, I have found little further info searching our archive, or in other groups.io discussion groups. I may have missed something.
  1. How could one bash an IC double-door boxcar using the Walthers kit?
  2. Has anyone a source for a photo or photos of a prototype car?
  3. How about an IC company diagram?
Thank you,
Owen Thorne


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Michigan & Kanawha Coal Gone being unloaded

 

Thanks Doug. Ralston as the builder makes sense given they were an online industry of the T&OC (a close relation to the K&M). 

This photo is the most modern lettering I’ve seen for the K&M, which caught my eye. 

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio

Sent from my mobile

On Nov 27, 2021, at 8:36 AM, Doug Chapman via groups.io <toc1885@...> wrote:


Ralston Steel Car Company of Columbus built 1,000 of these cars for the Kanawha & Michigan, between July and September 1912. Numbered 7500-8499, these cars were later relettered (NYC) and renumbered (342500-343499) when the New York Central leased the K&M in 1922.

Doug Chapman
Montclair, VA


Re: Steam Fittings for Tank Car Heads

Tim O'Connor
 


Hear hear! It would be sweet if someone would make these! Maybe beg Jason at Owl Mountain
to do them, since he already offers the dome elbows for tank cars. 😁

Tim O'Connor

On 11/24/2021 12:56 AM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

Please excuse the cross posts.  Thanks.

 

I wonder if anyone has seen, or is aware of, commercially available castings for the steam heat connections that show up on the heads of some tank cars.  I need several pair for a project.

 

Any guidance appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Steve Hile

Attachments:

_._


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: MILW Gondola Painting

Tim O'Connor
 


Here are model and prototype views of weathered plywood interiors.

Tim O'Connor

On 11/22/2021 2:54 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

I’m painting the RCW MILW composite gondola, and I’d like to know if the wood parts (sides and floor) were painted on the inside of the car body. I’m guessing it was, but the paint didn’t last very long, so in service appearance would be weathered wood with little paint.

 

Same question for the RCW NYC steel gondola with wood floor. Was the wood floor painted?

 

Nelson Moyer



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Tim O'Connor
 


Most "all in one" printers come with excellent software that can take any set of
image files and save them as a PDF. I saw Canon scanner/printer/copiers of this
kind at Walmart last week for $29 !! The software that comes with them is much
more valuable than the hardware.

Tim O'Connor



On 11/28/2021 2:40 PM, Jeffrey White wrote:

Damn they compressed again. I printed the sheet from the .pdf and scanned it, saved as a .jpg  I have no idea why it's compressing them. I've never had that problem before.

Let's try this:

Attachments:




--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: PRR F-41 Underbody

Tim O'Connor
 

Here is Overland's version of the GSC brake rigging. You can also turn over Exactrail
or Tangent models and follow those as examples.

Tim O'Connor

On 11/28/2021 7:30 PM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io wrote:
Tim & others,

Your reply causes me to wonder if the Walthers kit had brake rigging or at least components on their model.  Alas, I can't check as I sold my last one years ago (later than 1952, which is my modeling date).

Todd Sullivan
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Tim O'Connor
 


There is no ambiguity about those colors, in my opinion. Weathering and fading has that
effect on all cars that begin with an 'oxide red' basis weather darker or lighter to begin with.

Tim O'Connor



On 11/29/2021 9:11 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

CGW boxcar color varied, just like their diesels. CGW modelers are constantly trying to pinpoint what is CGW maroon?

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Shumaker
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2021 8:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee CGW box car oops?

 

Are you referring to the color shift?  That slide looks off to me, everything else is too dark as well. I’ve seen other pics of these special cars which appear lighter.  In the eye of the beholder, I guess.
Brian Shumaker

Attachments:

_._,_.


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

6101 - 6120 of 194669