Date   

Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Tim O'Connor
 


and at least one 40' car 😁

On 11/29/2021 8:54 PM, Steve SANDIFER wrote:

Santa Fe had some SS 50’ hide cars.

 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Most of the hide cars I’ve seen modeled were 40 ft. steel boxcars. Was that pretty standard, or were SS boxcars also used?

 

Nelson Moyer



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Tim O'Connor
 


That could definitely be the color, Dennis.

It is indeed extremely dark -- The Kadee version is just wrong.

Tim

On 11/29/2021 8:01 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
One og the Great Western maroons was very, very dark, and likely weathered even darker. Here is caboose 601 recently repainted at IRM, the color matched to the original samples taken from protected places, like the edges of windows and doors. Note the roof is black.

Dennis Storzek

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Tim O'Connor
 

On 11/29/2021 7:54 PM, Clark Propst via groups.io wrote:
The CGW assigned some 52000 series 50' DD steel box cars to hide service. I don't think these were painted Maroon  ;  )) I do believe the minimal stenciling was yellow/gold These cars are similar to the Soo cars RCW did. Doors were centered with 5/5 Pullman ends 10'6" IH

Clark

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee CGW box car oops?

earlyrail
 

From the Oct 1958 ORER they are listed under note B as "equipped with Compartmentizers"
Total of 15 cars listed, not in any numerical order (rando in series)

Howard Garner


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Steve SANDIFER
 

 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 7:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Santa Fe had some SS 50’ hide cars.

 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Most of the hide cars I’ve seen modeled were 40 ft. steel boxcars. Was that pretty standard, or were SS boxcars also used?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Owen, hides can indeed be heavy. Sometime in the 50s packing plants switched from salting dry hides to soaking hides in a brine solution and shipping them wet. Wet hides are indeed much heavier than dry hides.

 

As to interchange. Hides came from slaughter houses, ie packing plants. Most of which were located in the Mid-West, ie Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, St Paul, Sioux City, etc. And you will find that many tanneries were located out east, New England, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Tennessee, etc. A IC hide car would most likely be in captive service. It could be loaded with hides online in Chicago, Dubuque, Waterloo, Fort Dodge, Omaha, Sioux City and other locations. But the raw hides would be headed east, interchanged most likely at Chicago to any of many eastern roads.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

earlyrail
 

Tim,
We have different copies of the same photo.
Mine is definitely a maroon and not the dark color you posted.
I'll scan mine and post tomorrow

Howard Garner


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Steve SANDIFER
 

Santa Fe had some SS 50’ hide cars.

 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Most of the hide cars I’ve seen modeled were 40 ft. steel boxcars. Was that pretty standard, or were SS boxcars also used?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Owen, hides can indeed be heavy. Sometime in the 50s packing plants switched from salting dry hides to soaking hides in a brine solution and shipping them wet. Wet hides are indeed much heavier than dry hides.

 

As to interchange. Hides came from slaughter houses, ie packing plants. Most of which were located in the Mid-West, ie Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, St Paul, Sioux City, etc. And you will find that many tanneries were located out east, New England, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Tennessee, etc. A IC hide car would most likely be in captive service. It could be loaded with hides online in Chicago, Dubuque, Waterloo, Fort Dodge, Omaha, Sioux City and other locations. But the raw hides would be headed east, interchanged most likely at Chicago to any of many eastern roads.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Jeffrey White
 

Owen,

According to the 1960 IC Equipment list the IC had 34  50 foot SS cars numbered 34866 - 34899 and  5 cars in 34990 - 34999 There were also 51 40 foot Single Sheathed cars numbered between 34900 - 34989 as of 1 January 1960.

 

There were still 253 50 foot single sheath boxcars in service on 1 January 1960. 47 of these cars were in wood chip service and 55 in merchandise service.

Jeff White

Alma IL


On 11/29/2021 3:34 PM, Owen Thorne wrote:   
Thank you, Jeff,

I can almost smell that hide car through my screen! 

Interesting that car IC 34861 in your photo does not match the diagram you sent for the earlier group of 50' s/s IC hide cars, 34990-99, embedded in the diagram for 40000-40089, which indicates "no metal panel," that the left door "closed" but not indicated, noted or shown as having been removed, and a "stemwinder" Universal brake wheel retained at that late date (1954?) As this new photo is of a power-brake equipped, wooden but steel reinforced door car in a new number series for me, I looked it up in ORER 1959 and found 34890-99 the closest series (ten cars) but not a match. So this conversion may have been either after our STMFC period or "off the books."

The CU FT 4303 of the hide car listings matches that of the three IC non-end-door equipped 50' composite autocar groups. Curious is the increase in CAPY from 75000 to 100000 lbs. Is this likely just a truck/bearing upgrade? The earlier discussed 34990-99 matching your diagram also showed this CAPY increase when they appeared in the 1955 ORER. Were hides so heavy?

In the 1959 ORER there is also a group of 74 (up from 68 in 1955) 40' 40t composite 6' door, small boxcars in 34900-34989 series so, IC guys, are all the 34xxx-series cars in the late-steam era hide cars?

Finally, how likely would IC hide cars be interchanged to deliver to a leather works in, say, Wilmington, DE, or Philadelphia, PA?

Thank you,
Owen Thorne 
owen at udel dot edu


Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

One og the Great Western maroons was very, very dark, and likely weathered even darker. Here is caboose 601 recently repainted at IRM, the color matched to the original samples taken from protected places, like the edges of windows and doors. Note the roof is black.



Dennis Storzek


Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Clark Propst
 

The CGW assigned some 52000 series 50' DD steel box cars to hide service. I don't think these were painted Maroon  ;  )) I do believe the minimal stenciling was yellow/gold These cars are similar to the Soo cars RCW did. Doors were centered with 5/5 Pullman ends 10'6" IH

Clark


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee CGW box car oops?

Brian Termunde
 

Thank you all!


Take Care,
 
Brian R. Termunde
Murray, Utah


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee CGW box car oops?

mel perry
 

there was a series of 4 different codes
used at the same time, i found the
translations in google, years ago, and
no, i didn't copy them, i assume that
they are still there, nothing gets erased
from google
🙂
mel perry


Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Charles Peck
 

I do not know much about CGW but I do know that some boxcars have worn more than one color
over their lifetime.  Both colors could be correct in different years.
Chuck Peck

On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 7:39 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

The picture I posted -IS- the Dyersville image. You can clearly see a
Rock Island
box car red car coupled to it. No way was the 5464 car red or maroon --
and in
fact, the photo shows a red-maroon patch above the lube stencil.

Tim O'Connor

On 11/29/2021 7:30 PM, earlyrail wrote:
>
> Compartmentalzer and Quick Loader.
>
> I check my copy of the original posted image
> Mine is from a C&NW Historical Society duplicate of a W A Vaugh original.
> Shows a maroon body, much lighter the the post image
> Taken Dyersville, IA 7/61
>
> Howard Garner
>



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*






Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

Tim O'Connor
 

The picture I posted -IS- the Dyersville image. You can clearly see a Rock Island
box car red car coupled to it. No way was the 5464 car red or maroon --
and in
fact, the photo shows a red-maroon patch above the lube stencil.

Tim O'Connor

On 11/29/2021 7:30 PM, earlyrail wrote:

Compartmentalzer and Quick Loader.

I check my copy of the original posted image
Mine is from a C&NW Historical Society duplicate of a W A Vaugh original.
Shows a maroon body, much lighter the the post image
Taken Dyersville, IA 7/61

Howard Garner
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Kadee CGW box car oops?

earlyrail
 

Compartmentalzer and Quick Loader.

I check my copy of the original posted image
Mine is from a C&NW Historical Society duplicate of a W A Vaugh original.
Shows a maroon body, much lighter the the post image
Taken Dyersville, IA 7/61

Howard Garner


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Tim O'Connor
 


The NP and ATSF both had single sheathed hide cars.

On 11/29/2021 5:28 PM, Nelson Moyer wrote:

Most of the hide cars I’ve seen modeled were 40 ft. steel boxcars. Was that pretty standard, or were SS boxcars also used?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Owen, hides can indeed be heavy. Sometime in the 50s packing plants switched from salting dry hides to soaking hides in a brine solution and shipping them wet. Wet hides are indeed much heavier than dry hides.

 

As to interchange. Hides came from slaughter houses, ie packing plants. Most of which were located in the Mid-West, ie Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, St Paul, Sioux City, etc. And you will find that many tanneries were located out east, New England, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Tennessee, etc. A IC hide car would most likely be in captive service. It could be loaded with hides online in Chicago, Dubuque, Waterloo, Fort Dodge, Omaha, Sioux City and other locations. But the raw hides would be headed east, interchanged most likely at Chicago to any of many eastern roads.

 

Doug Harding



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee CGW box car oops?

Tim O'Connor
 


Could "C" stand for Car Pac, another type of special loading equipment?


On 11/29/2021 5:42 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Brian;

 

In my experience, they refer to “Cushioned” and “Quick Loader”

 

May be wrong…..

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Termunde via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 5:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Kadee CGW box car oops?

 

What do those letters mean? The "C" and "QL" etc.? TIA!

Take Care,

 

Brian R. Termunde

Murray, Utah



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Nelson Moyer
 

Thanks for the photos, Doug. I guess I can consign one of my XM-21s or XM-23s to hide service, since they were both built in the teens, and there were still  90 in revenue service in 1953.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:59 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Nelson yes SS cars were used for hide service. Here are a few photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Nelson Moyer
 

The smell was what prompted my question. Intuitively, steel cars would stink less when the doors were closed than wood cars, since liner would soak up the slop, but it wouldn’t penetrate the steel, whereas SS cars would never dry out, and the smell would be worse outside the car, even with the doors closed. Of course, I doubt that the railroads cared much about shielding the public (or their employees for that matter) from odors.

 

I’d use an old steel boxcar as a hide car, but the CB&Q didn’t have any old steel boxcars in 1953. The built the first steel boxcar in 1940.

 

Seem to me that cars with damaged liners wouldn’t be good for hides, as they could damage the payload during loading and unloading.

 

I can relate somewhat to terrible smells. I had an EPA research grant to study pathogen removal in wastewater treatment lagoons at hog confinement facilities. I visited a couple of facilities to collect samples, and the odor was so strong that it escaped iced coolers holding the samples in the trunk of my car, and I had to drive two hours back to the lab with all the car windows rolled down just to be able to breath. The car reeked for about a week after that. I stored the samples in coolers in the cold room at the lab, and they were only opened for processing in a biological safety cabinet, not because they were that dangerous, but to contain and vent the odor. Fortunately, my research assistant did most of that work.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Todd Sullivan via groups.io
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Hide cars were any boxcars that were unfit for most kinds of loading - grain, finished lumber, merchandise, etc.  They tended to have rough interiors (worn out, interior sheathing splintered, with holes).  Once a car was loaded wiht green hides, you  NEVER loaded it with anything else.  Oh, and they smelled terrible!

Todd Sullivan


Re: Single-sheathed box cars

Douglas Harding
 

Nelson yes SS cars were used for hide service. Here are a few photos.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:28 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Most of the hide cars I’ve seen modeled were 40 ft. steel boxcars. Was that pretty standard, or were SS boxcars also used?

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2021 4:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Single-sheathed box cars

 

Owen, hides can indeed be heavy. Sometime in the 50s packing plants switched from salting dry hides to soaking hides in a brine solution and shipping them wet. Wet hides are indeed much heavier than dry hides.

 

As to interchange. Hides came from slaughter houses, ie packing plants. Most of which were located in the Mid-West, ie Chicago, Omaha, Kansas City, St Paul, Sioux City, etc. And you will find that many tanneries were located out east, New England, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Tennessee, etc. A IC hide car would most likely be in captive service. It could be loaded with hides online in Chicago, Dubuque, Waterloo, Fort Dodge, Omaha, Sioux City and other locations. But the raw hides would be headed east, interchanged most likely at Chicago to any of many eastern roads.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

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