Re: Rapido X31a

WILLIAM PARDIE

Mike

What paInt did you use on this car or is this the color of the undecorated car?

Bill Pardie

Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Mike Clements via groups.io" <mbclements@...>
Date: 1/2/22 12:08 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido X31a

I’ve got 5 decal projects going right now, and this is at the bottom of the stack. I’ll post photos of the final result, I think the weathering will help make it pop, but this is what I’ve got right now. I had to hold it at angle to see it.
--
Mike Clements
Wakefield, MA
nyc65.wordpress.com

Re: Barber Asphalt tank car

Steve and Barb Hile

Thanks for the correction.  I took the first value I saw.  I also now see a value of 7.91 pounds per gallon, which nets 11,125 gallons.

The 10000 gallon value makes sense when viewing the tank car in the photo.

Thanks,

Steve Hile

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jack Mullen
Sent: Monday, January 3, 2022 12:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Barber Asphalt tank car

On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 03:44 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

Using Google conversions, 88000 pounds of asphalt would be about 607 cubic feet which converts to about 4540 gallons.  So, a fairly small tank car.

Whoa there! It looks like Google is using a density for asphalt pavement, which would be around 145 lb/cf. What you want is the density of liquid asphalt, which isn't much greater than that of water.  A specific gravity of 1.04 would be about 65 lb/cf or 8.7 lb/gal.  88,000 lbs is a good match to a fully loaded 10,000 gal tank.

Jack Mullen

Re: Barber Asphalt tank car

Jack Mullen

On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 03:44 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

Using Google conversions, 88000 pounds of asphalt would be about 607 cubic feet which converts to about 4540 gallons.  So, a fairly small tank car.

Whoa there! It looks like Google is using a density for asphalt pavement, which would be around 145 lb/cf. What you want is the density of liquid asphalt, which isn't much greater than that of water.  A specific gravity of 1.04 would be about 65 lb/cf or 8.7 lb/gal.  88,000 lbs is a good match to a fully loaded 10,000 gal tank.

Jack Mullen

Re: Barber Asphalt tank car

Steve and Barb Hile

Especially for the narrow gauge trucks!!

Steve Hile

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Scott H. Haycock
Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2022 10:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Barber Asphalt tank car

I think the load weight limit was met, more or less, but not the car's capacity. I would think that with a heavier product like asphalt, this was common.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantment

On 01/02/2022 8:57 PM Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

That’s a much larger tank car, either 8000 or 10000 gallons, but maybe not full.

Steve Hile

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Larry Smith
Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2022 9:41 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Barber Asphalt tank car

Eric

Larry Smith

Tha

On Sunday, January 2, 2022, 04:44:14 PM CST, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Larry,

Can you share the reporting marks and car number? The capacity sounds odd but the reporting marks and car number may be used to cross check in an ORER.

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

On Jan 2, 2022, at 3:55 PM, Larry Smith <wooddale@...> wrote:

In 1933, the East Broad Top received its first standard gauge car in interchange at the Timber Transfer where they exchanged standard trucks for narrow gauge trucks.  In a recent article in the FEBT magazine, it ws said that the car carried 88000 lbs of road tar for delivery to Orbasonia.  What size of tank car could carry 44 tons of road tar?

Larry Smith.

Re: Barber Asphalt tank car

Scott H. Haycock

I think the load weight limit was met, more or less, but not the car's capacity. I would think that with a heavier product like asphalt, this was common.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 01/02/2022 8:57 PM Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

That’s a much larger tank car, either 8000 or 10000 gallons, but maybe not full.

Steve Hile

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Larry Smith
Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2022 9:41 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Barber Asphalt tank car

Eric

Larry Smith

Tha

On Sunday, January 2, 2022, 04:44:14 PM CST, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Larry,

Can you share the reporting marks and car number? The capacity sounds odd but the reporting marks and car number may be used to cross check in an ORER.

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

On Jan 2, 2022, at 3:55 PM, Larry Smith <wooddale@...> wrote:

In 1933, the East Broad Top received its first standard gauge car in interchange at the Timber Transfer where they exchanged standard trucks for narrow gauge trucks.  In a recent article in the FEBT magazine, it ws said that the car carried 88000 lbs of road tar for delivery to Orbasonia.  What size of tank car could carry 44 tons of road tar?

Larry Smith.

What is the prototype? Is there a model?

Matt Martin

All,

In my attempt to model prototypically accurate freight cars of the Apache Railway, I am seeking this group’s expertise.

I would like to know what kind of tank car this is:
From what I can gather it is an 8,000 Gallon (I know it’s marked 8,100 gallons) GATX Type 30 tank car.

I believe Resin Car Works had an HO-Scale model of this or a similar car:
Can anybody confirm if I am accurate on the prototype and model? Or am I way off?

Thank you.

Matt Martin
Western NE

Re: Barber Asphalt tank car

Steve and Barb Hile

That’s a much larger tank car, either 8000 or 10000 gallons, but maybe not full.

Steve Hile

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Larry Smith
Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2022 9:41 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io; main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Barber Asphalt tank car

Eric

Larry Smith

Tha

On Sunday, January 2, 2022, 04:44:14 PM CST, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Larry,

Can you share the reporting marks and car number? The capacity sounds odd but the reporting marks and car number may be used to cross check in an ORER.

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

On Jan 2, 2022, at 3:55 PM, Larry Smith <wooddale@...> wrote:

In 1933, the East Broad Top received its first standard gauge car in interchange at the Timber Transfer where they exchanged standard trucks for narrow gauge trucks.  In a recent article in the FEBT magazine, it ws said that the car carried 88000 lbs of road tar for delivery to Orbasonia.  What size of tank car could carry 44 tons of road tar?

Larry Smith.

Re: Barber Asphalt tank car

Larry Smith

Eric

Larry Smith

On Sunday, January 2, 2022, 04:44:14 PM CST, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Larry,

Can you share the reporting marks and car number? The capacity sounds odd but the reporting marks and car number may be used to cross check in an ORER.

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jan 2, 2022, at 3:55 PM, Larry Smith <wooddale@...> wrote:

In 1933, the East Broad Top received its first standard gauge car in interchange at the Timber Transfer where they exchanged standard trucks for narrow gauge trucks.  In a recent article in the FEBT magazine, it ws said that the car carried 88000 lbs of road tar for delivery to Orbasonia.  What size of tank car could carry 44 tons of road tar?

Larry Smith.

Who makes these HO scale ladders?

Andy Carlson

Yes, these are a set of 8-rung ladders made by the late Terry Wegmann who also did a 7-rung set. Usually the black ones were cast in Styrene and the light colored ones were just whatever leftover mix was in the hopper. Many 1000s of these were sold to sunshine models and many others acquired these in large amounts as well. Terry sold both of these ladders to Details West for retail sale.

It is unclear as to what will become of the tooling after Terry's death and there is a good chance these may never be offered again.

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

On Sunday, January 2, 2022, 05:50:45 PM PST, Scott <repairman87@...> wrote:

Anybody know who makes the ladders in the photo?

Think they came out of a Speedwitch kit but not sure.

Thanks,
Scott McDonald

Re: 6 wheel freight trucks

Alex Schneider

Thanks Ben. I was able to find two pairs in a nearby shop’s old stock. They had plastic wheels, so I set about exchanging them. I discovered that the sideframes hook onto the center frame and sufficient force to allow a wheelset to slip out will pull them out. Fortunately, no damage, and Proto 2000 wheels work well.

I have 3 options for lettering this car:

·        For a PRR, NYC, Erie or other common carrier railroad

·        For GE, Westinghouse or other electrical equipment manufacturer

·        For an electric utility, with Consumers Power, Northern Indiana Public Service and American Electric Power being appropriate for the area I model. Or Commonwealth Edison, where I worked for 30 years and which owned similar cars.

Alex Schneider

Who makes these HO scale ladders?

Scott

Anybody know who makes the ladders in the photo?

Think they came out of a Speedwitch kit but not sure.

Thanks,
Scott McDonald

Re: [URL Verdict: Unknown][Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Tarps over gondolas

I should add to my earlier note that outside the gondola car body tarp attachment could have been a safety hazard if came loose and covered any mandatory safety appliances. The possibility of loose tarps would be higher particularly over the much longer distances traveled by North American (Canada, Mexico, USA) railroad shipments. The cost of additional inspections would have to be added to the tariff.  More work for the RR "Bulls". Possible theft and the ease of riding the rails external tarp undetected could be additional reasons.

The prevalence of the boxcar as the preferred protection for most NA shipments made use of open lading unnecessary.  North American railroads were experts at stuffing anything and everything in a "house car" whereas gondolas were mostly purchased and used for specific services and customers for 20th century railroads.  The European style common user "open" wagon did not seem to be needed by NA Railroads.
--
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io

Re: Barber Asphalt tank car

Steve and Barb Hile

Using Google conversions, 88000 pounds of asphalt would be about 607 cubic feet which converts to about 4540 gallons.  So, a fairly small tank car.

Steve Hile

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Larry Smith
Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2022 3:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Barber Asphalt tank car

In 1933, the East Broad Top received its first standard gauge car in interchange at the Timber Transfer where they exchanged standard trucks for narrow gauge trucks.  In a recent article in the FEBT magazine, it ws said that the car carried 88000 lbs of road tar for delivery to Orbasonia.  What size of tank car could carry 44 tons of road tar?

Larry Smith.

Re: HO code 88 wheels

Thank you Dennis

It would not be a problem but for the unreliability of the supplies of HO metal wheelsets from any given manufacturer due to extended supply chains. This supply chain unreliability makes interoperability of wheelsets with the different manufacturers of trucks needed for a specific model.  I expect there is no easy resolution to this issue in the near future just as there is no easy resolution to the larger world's supply chain problems.

Note that the referenced NMRA RP only specifies a max length of 1.035 inches to cover Athearn which was still the major HO manufacturer of freight cars in 1982.

Alan Gibson Workshop in the UK (http://www.alangibsonworkshop.com/) still lists Pin Point Brass Axel Bearings in their last catalog (2018) if the available axels do not fit the freight truck you absolutely have to use.  Keep your calipers handy.
--
Still in splendid Shelter In Place solitude, about half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io

Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido F30's

Jeff, Group;

I decided to spend enough time with mine to know what I was talking about, so here goes:

The cars most accurately (and do they!), represent the final and largest group of F30A built 1934-ish, with the wider B end frame extension outside the bolster, and the stake pocket lips.  They are pretty much spot on for those cars.  Mine are numbered accurately.

They are also pretty accurate for the F30D and F30G, except for the stake pocket lip, which if you are a real stickler, you could shave off.  I can’t believe anyone would even notice, but that’s your solution.  Touch-up paint = Modelflex Dark Tuscan Oxide Red (DTOR), for PRR era.

Remember:  Some F30A were converted to both F30D and F30G, so don’t get caught up in that argument.

The “nail hole” in the stake pocket is not a mistake.  Some F30A had them, some didn’t.  In all my research for the PRR flat car book, and staring at hundreds of photos, I never figured that out.

The lightening holes in the u/f are spot on.

The trucks are good renditions of the “spring-leaf-spring” PRR truck found on these cars.

The deck looks very accurate for the F30 in general.  The drilled depressions for the carriage bolts are especially well done.

The look of the cast frame is very convincing.

Even the hand brake wheel looks correct.  First time for that.

The design/construction choice of metal for pretty much the entire car means they track really well without a load.  Ingenious.

With the number that were built, and the fact they traveled all over, this is a good add for your fleet, even if you model west coast.  The F30A I repeatedly crawled all over measuring and photo documenting over the years was found at the Orange Empire Railway Museum.

If you want to question my enthusiasm for this car, I will admit I have been part of some PRR projects that did not turn out well.  This was an exceptionally good outcome.

Elden Gatwood

PRRT&HS

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeffrey White
Sent: Monday, December 27, 2021 5:40 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido F30's

Eldon,

I received my four about 3 weeks ago.  I had to file a burr off of one of their scale couplers for it to work and one required a trip pin adjustment, other then that they are beautiful cars.  They track well without a load.

Jeff White

Alma IL

On 12/27/2021 2:08 PM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Gang;

Did you get your F30’s yet?

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood

Re: HO code 88 wheels

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>

On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 10:43 AM, Kenneth Montero wrote:
NMRA does have a recommended practice for axles: RP 24.3. Here is a link to that RP: https://www.nmra.org/sites/default/files/standards/sandrp/pdf/rp-24.3.pdf
The NMRA RP-24, like most NMRA recommendations, bears no relationship to the prototype and, while revised in 1982, was already generally ignored by the time I did a survey of available freight trucks in 1993 as I designed Accurail's truck mold. At that time the majority of available "one piece" HO scale freight trucks clustered around 1.010" to 1.015 long; only Athearn was still using the long 1.035" axle on their "blue box" kits. The problem was most manufactures had abandoned the self gauging stepped axles, instead bringing the 3/32" diameter all the way through the wheel, as Athearn did. This limited the depth of the bearing cone in the molded sideframe, since 3/32" is over 8 scale inches and wider than most steam era journal boxes. The easy fix for this is to spread the sideframes out, making the truck overly wide. I initially designed the Accurail trucks to be scale width and use 1.010" long axles, and had endless complaints because the common metal replacement wheelsets of the day all had axles between .002" to .005" longer. I eventually revised the tooling, letting the bearing cone slightly break out of the side of the journal boxes, and the complaints stopped. I am, however, glad to see more manufacturers completely abandon the outdated RP-24 dimension.

Dennis Storzek

Re: Barber Asphalt tank car

Eric Hansmann

Larry,

Can you share the reporting marks and car number? The capacity sounds odd but the reporting marks and car number may be used to cross check in an ORER.

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jan 2, 2022, at 3:55 PM, Larry Smith <wooddale@...> wrote:

In 1933, the East Broad Top received its first standard gauge car in interchange at the Timber Transfer where they exchanged standard trucks for narrow gauge trucks.  In a recent article in the FEBT magazine, it ws said that the car carried 88000 lbs of road tar for delivery to Orbasonia.  What size of tank car could carry 44 tons of road tar?

Larry Smith.

Re: Rapido X31a

Mike Clements

I’ve got 5 decal projects going right now, and this is at the bottom of the stack. I’ll post photos of the final result, I think the weathering will help make it pop, but this is what I’ve got right now. I had to hold it at angle to see it.
--
Mike Clements
Wakefield, MA
nyc65.wordpress.com

Re: [URL Verdict: Unknown][Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Tarps over gondolas

Robert G P

Thanks guys. Very interesting. There were certainly enough boxcars around to load stuff like barrels and sacks or such things that would be best tarped if put in a gondola.

Ken, if not a burden I'd be happy to view the pdf.

Thanks again,
Bob

On Sun, Jan 2, 2022 at 3:32 PM Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Group;

To add:  PRR had a convoluted history with tie-downs and stake pockets, with use of collapsible interior stake pockets (ex:  class GS and G26) popular until the late forties, when many were deleted during rebuilds (like the GSh rebuilt from GS).  After that period, they went through a long period of experimentation, with tie-downs being applied to tops of top chord, side of top chord, and upper side sheet below top chord, and even a combo of last two.  One subclass had them on side of top chord and the endmost on a side stake.

There is lots of correspondence between PRR and folks torching holes with PRR charging them big bucks for repairs.

PRR had lots of folks that tarped gon loads, so this was enough importance that they stencilled many of them with warnings about torching, plus notes as to tie-down locations.

Elden Gatwood

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Adams
Sent: Sunday, January 2, 2022 1:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Unknown][Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Tarps over gondolas

In the steam era (up to 1957-8) which this group confines itself to, it may have been North American practice to build gondolas with tarp tie downs inside. Coal and other mineral loads were left open. Other items needing tarp coverage could be put on a flat car.

If you are interested I will share an NMRA clinic pdf "Freight Car_Modeling: East and Midwest Gondolas" by Charlie Trapper from 2012.  PM me offline.  There is a picture in it of a MTH 52'6" gondola with the tie downs molded on the inside walls. There appears to be no other mention of tarping gondola loads.
--