Date   

Re: Popular vote- was Iron Modeler competition?

Nelson Moyer
 

I agree with Tony, with popular vote, the ‘cute’ factor outweighs any amount of originality and craftsmanship, especially when many of the voters are railfans without a clue about what it takes to scratchbuilt a prizewinning model.

 

Case in point. The Burlington Historical Society holds a model contest at their annual meeting in the fall. Contest rules break models into categories much like NMRA, there is no judging, just a popular vote on each category and best of show. A relatively small percentage of the membership are modelers, and a small fraction of those modelers scratchbuild. I entered a scratchbuilt BA-19 with shaddowline decal artwork I drew in Corel Draw and printed myself. I didn’t even take first in the passenger car category, much less best of show. The models that beat me were commercial RTR models, and the model winning best of show was a factory built and painted brass steam locomotive. After the meet I politely suggested that perhaps it was time to review the contest rules in the interest of rewarding scratchbuilding blood, sweat, and tears. I was summarily ignored. I don’t attend many BRHS meets any more, and when I do, I don’t bother to enter models in the popular vote they call a contest.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 6:29 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Popular vote- was Iron Modeler competition?

 

I'll have to disagree with your assertion of popular vote being an inherently better solution as I've seen this happen on a couple of occasions. The pitfall is you'll find that the larger scale models tend to win the votes regardless of the work actually put into the models that have been entered. I've seen a kitbashed HO caboose that had full underbody detailing, wire grab irons, and completely scratchbuilt fabricated wire end railings that had scored 100-points at an NMRA contest lose a popular vote contest to a stock Aristo-Craft G-scale caboose that only had a decal job applied. Who had the "better" model in that case?

 

My observation from 15 or so years of hanging around contests is that the sure way to win a popular vote is to include figures, such as a couple of guys on a flat car, wrestling with a load. Even a happy young couple on the observation platform will do it. Great scratch building?? Great prototype accuracy?? Naw. The voters are just going for stuff that is fun to look at — or anything humorous.

 

Tony Thompson

 


Re: Was this part ever made?

Tim O'Connor
 

Pierre

Some were made in lost wax brass but they came with brass freight cars and were never
sold as separate parts... I have a brass UP box car that is disassembled (a long ago ultrasonic
cleaner accident), but it didn't have end doors. :-P

Several early F&C resin 'kits' were actually copied directly from brass models. So there is
precedent. :-D

Tim

On 1/13/2022 11:18 AM, Pierre Oliver wrote:

I'm looking for the latches that would have been on end door cars in HO scale
I have some in O from Chooch, but I can't recall if they were ever done in HO
Thanks


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Cocoa Beach 2022

Jim and Barbara van Gaasbeek
 

I do hope to attend CCB sometime, but not this year – COVID plus crazy people on airplanes.

 

I used to commute to our Melbourne facility (not Melbourne Beach) from John Wayne (Sanata Ana, Orange County – it has so many names) via DFW.  Once I was in the rental car, it was about an hour to Melbourne.  I once had to go to CCAFS (or is it CCSFS now) and stayed in CCB – 45 minutes.  Since my commute was 1.5 to 2 hours, each way, each day here, those drives were a lark.  And the tolls just aren’t that bad.

 

How many other RPMs are right next to a major airport?  If not, how long a drive is it to the meet site from the airport.

 

And, frankly, the Space Coast is A LOT MORE pleasant in the winter than the summer.  (Go ahead, ask me how I know.)

 

Jim van Gaasbeek

Irvine, CA

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of np328
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 3:59 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Cocoa Beach 2022

 

      Regarding the dates chosen, and the time being a trench time in the hospitality business, I think Mike B may have posted the reasoning on this list and it agrees with Tim and Tom. The reasons certainly sound familiar in a sense.

      I will agree with the sentiment of coming home to face more winter, however the visit to CCB certainly makes the remainder of it more tolerable.  I recall one year when a well know poster on this list from the Atlanta region (whom I do like) complained that the 60-degree temps at CCB were not much better than back at home. I and Doug Harding stated that the temps were almost a 100-degree difference than back at home for us. (tomatoes - tomahtoes.) 

      Of the ranting about tolls - good heavens. What are the tolls - about the price of a tap beer or two at CCB
I have been to the Naperville Meets yearly since the start and almost the same to CCB. Bought a transponder for the Illinois tolls, and later a SunPass decades ago.
However even having them, I have driven into both meets on roads that have no tolls many times. All it takes is a little planning.
These complaints of toll costs remind me of a joke where a person goes to his doctor and says - Doc, it hurts when I do this. The doctor replies - So stop doing that!         
                     
     I missed it this year, missed seeing the model room and the model cars displayed, missed the presentations, and mostly missed just talking with people.         James Dick - Roseville, MN 
   


Re: Popular vote- was Iron Modeler competition?

 

Which explains why the NMRA for years featured outhouses in many forms. I think they finally realized it turned off serious modelers. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Jan 13, 2022, at 6:29 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


I'll have to disagree with your assertion of popular vote being an inherently better solution as I've seen this happen on a couple of occasions. The pitfall is you'll find that the larger scale models tend to win the votes regardless of the work actually put into the models that have been entered. I've seen a kitbashed HO caboose that had full underbody detailing, wire grab irons, and completely scratchbuilt fabricated wire end railings that had scored 100-points at an NMRA contest lose a popular vote contest to a stock Aristo-Craft G-scale caboose that only had a decal job applied. Who had the "better" model in that case?

My observation from 15 or so years of hanging around contests is that the sure way to win a popular vote is to include figures, such as a couple of guys on a flat car, wrestling with a load. Even a happy young couple on the observation platform will do it. Great scratch building?? Great prototype accuracy?? Naw. The voters are just going for stuff that is fun to look at — or anything humorous.

Tony Thompson




Re: Popular vote- was Iron Modeler competition?

Tony Thompson
 

I'll have to disagree with your assertion of popular vote being an inherently better solution as I've seen this happen on a couple of occasions. The pitfall is you'll find that the larger scale models tend to win the votes regardless of the work actually put into the models that have been entered. I've seen a kitbashed HO caboose that had full underbody detailing, wire grab irons, and completely scratchbuilt fabricated wire end railings that had scored 100-points at an NMRA contest lose a popular vote contest to a stock Aristo-Craft G-scale caboose that only had a decal job applied. Who had the "better" model in that case?

My observation from 15 or so years of hanging around contests is that the sure way to win a popular vote is to include figures, such as a couple of guys on a flat car, wrestling with a load. Even a happy young couple on the observation platform will do it. Great scratch building?? Great prototype accuracy?? Naw. The voters are just going for stuff that is fun to look at — or anything humorous.

Tony Thompson




Re: Cocoa Beach 2022

np328
 

      Regarding the dates chosen, and the time being a trench time in the hospitality business, I think Mike B may have posted the reasoning on this list and it agrees with Tim and Tom. The reasons certainly sound familiar in a sense.

      I will agree with the sentiment of coming home to face more winter, however the visit to CCB certainly makes the remainder of it more tolerable.  I recall one year when a well know poster on this list from the Atlanta region (whom I do like) complained that the 60-degree temps at CCB were not much better than back at home. I and Doug Harding stated that the temps were almost a 100-degree difference than back at home for us. (tomatoes - tomahtoes.) 

      Of the ranting about tolls - good heavens. What are the tolls - about the price of a tap beer or two at CCB
I have been to the Naperville Meets yearly since the start and almost the same to CCB. Bought a transponder for the Illinois tolls, and later a SunPass decades ago.
However even having them, I have driven into both meets on roads that have no tolls many times. All it takes is a little planning.
These complaints of toll costs remind me of a joke where a person goes to his doctor and says - Doc, it hurts when I do this. The doctor replies - So stop doing that!         
                     
     I missed it this year, missed seeing the model room and the model cars displayed, missed the presentations, and mostly missed just talking with people.         James Dick - Roseville, MN 
   


Popular vote- was Iron Modeler competition?

Andy Carlson
 



Charlie,
I'll have to disagree with your assertion of popular vote being an inherently better solution as I've seen this happen on a couple of occasions. The pitfall is you'll find that the larger scale models tend to win the votes regardless of the work actually put into the models that have been entered. I've seen a kitbashed HO caboose that had full underbody detailing, wire grab irons, and completely scratchbuilt fabricated wire end railings that had scored 100-points at an NMRA contest lose a popular vote contest to a stock Aristo-Craft G-scale caboose that only had a decal job applied. Who had the "better" model in that case?

-Jason P

Around 20 years or so ago I attended a one-day meet in Sonora, CA. My friend brought his recently finished, nearly 100% scratch built, Westside Lumber Company narrow gauge Heisler. My friend's build quality was world class and one of his scratch built shays took 1st place steam at a National NMRA convention. This Heisler's work was an equal to his earlier shay. Popular vote Had the guy who brought two PFM geared locos take 1st and 2nd. !st place brass engine had moose antlers made from brass shim stock attached to the headlight, otherwise an as-built PFM shay. My friend wasn't as bothered about the slight it as me, but the lesson for me if someone wants to enter a judged contest, avoid a popular vote. The public's poor ability to judge built models makes any award from such contests meaningless.

It is well known along the NMRA contest circuit that the savvy builders who are out for bagging awards know ways in which prototypes are selected and other tricks, such as scale size, to rack up the points for a win.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Cocoa Beach 2022

Tom Madden
 

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 03:44 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Personally I wish CB was in March or April but I think they chose January because it's the slowest season
so hotel rates are at a low point then.
Yes. Mike said years ago that the window between the New Year's holiday and the MLK weekend was the slowest part of Florida's winter season, with very favorable hotel rates and good room availability. Gail would have preferred the meet be in the Spring too - she didn't like coming home and having to face two or three more months of winter.

Tom Madden
 


Re: Cocoa Beach 2022

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Please keep us posted Scott@

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Scott Kremer <skremer@...>
Date: 1/13/22 12:14 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: "main@realstmfc.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Cocoa Beach 2022

No, you are not.  We are having one of our periodic Zoom meetings tonight and that will be number one on our agenda.  We have had a very good response to the convention.  We had blocked a significant number of rooms but it appears that we need more.  We will work with the hotel to do that.  You may not be aware but if we over block rooms and they are not sold we have to pay for them.  As a consequence we have had to be somewhat careful on this.  The good news is that we have all of the public spaces for the convention so there is little reason for others, not associated with the convention, to stay there.  Give us a couple of days to get with the hotel and increase the block of available rooms.

Scott Kremer

Chairman IndyJunction 2022

On Jan 13, 2022, at 4:05 PM, np328 <jcdworkingonthenp@...> wrote:

And at 3PM CST Thursday, as I look at rooms for the Indy Meet, I get a "some dates are sold out".   Am I the only one?        James Dick - Roseville, MN 


Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

Jason P
 

Charlie,
I'll have to disagree with your assertion of popular vote being an inherently better solution as I've seen this happen on a couple of occasions. The pitfall is you'll find that the larger scale models tend to win the votes regardless of the work actually put into the models that have been entered. I've seen a kitbashed HO caboose that had full underbody detailing, wire grab irons, and completely scratchbuilt fabricated wire end railings that had scored 100-points at an NMRA contest lose a popular vote contest to a stock Aristo-Craft G-scale caboose that only had a decal job applied. Who had the "better" model in that case?

-Jason P

On 01/13/2022 12:52 PM Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:


All-

On a similar vein, I always used to enjoy the snapshots that people would send into Model Railroader magazine for Trackside Photos.

 

Some of the photos were of poor quality (drugstore developed Brownie or later Instamatic shots) but they showed some piece of equipment or portion of a layout that the sender was proud of and wanted to share and there was always something one could learn from the submissions.

 

Now only photos of very high modeling excellence and photographic standard gets published and they are much less interesting. 

 

I wonder how many people gave up on the Hobby because they felt they would never be able to rise to such lofty heights?

The magazine reverted to “Model Railroading is Fun” but I’m not sure judging by “experts” is the best way to encourage excellence in modeling.

 

Popular vote contests or just plain exhibits of work….even projects in progress….are a much better way to grow the enjoyment of the Hobby.  

 

I think the RPM movement would not be where it is today if a panel of judges would mete out ribbons based on some scoring system.

 

Charlie Vlk

 

PS- Is the advent of 3D CAD and Rapid Prototype printing another sign of the demise of craftsmanship in the Hobby of Model Railroading?   Should we all revert to bronze sand castings and salvaging material from cigar boxes, tin cans and shirt cardboards to be worthy?   

 

I think the State of Modeling is higher than it ever has been. The state of Understanding and Research of the Prototype arguably is higher than it was when a person could go out and measure and photograph the real thing.  We have materials available that allow more accurate representation of the prototype.

 

I got out of HO and into N Scale in 1967 when I realized that I would have to scratch build every car for the CB&Q and it was before styrene sheet and shapes, resin casting (beyond tree stumps!), road specific production models were available.  Now HO has RTR production models of CB&Q equipment and many resin kits for most freight cars and many passenger cars, N Scale has fewer kits but with 3D CAD I will have to start modeling the Q again because rapid prototyping can produce anything I want…including steam locomotives and road specific diesels, freight and passenger cars.

 

People poo-poo RTR cars but I want to spend my time on CB&Q prototypes.  I am not going to spend time on building ordinary cars to put in a freight train from the PRR, ATSF, SAL, etc. unless a particular car is not available and it catches my fancy.  RTR allows me to have a train to run and I can trade $$$ for time to spend on projects that I want…including building a layout.

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of naptownprr
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 11:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?


Elden,

 

Try this address:

 

 

Jim Hunter


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 7:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?


Jim;


Agree.  It was past time the PRRT&HS contests went away.  More photos from our modelers are always great!


Flip me a personal email address.  Your messages are being quarantined.


Thanks!


Elden Gatwood


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of naptownprr
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?


Hooray! I see things vey similarly, Bruce.  I enjoy looking at other people's models, but I'm glad to get away from contests.

 

Jim Hunter

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 4:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?


This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.

 


Bruce, I agree. This photo I've included is a shot of a Ready-To-Run Athearn diesel, unmodified except for the
weathering applied by Gary Christensen. Gary builds incredible dioramas with realistically weathered RTR models.
And he photographs them as well. Younger modelers - not raised on kits - who can do this are all over the world
and can be seen at major train shows like Springfield MA every January (well, except for 2021, and maybe 2022).

So yeah, the modeling art is alive and well. :-)

Tim O'Connor


On 1/8/2022 1:02 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

Ron,

 

Seriously? A couple of points. First, with respect to contests. If that's your thing, fine, but it's never been mine. While I certainly appreciate feedback on my models, I have never built them to please anyone except myself, and certainly not some "judge" using arbitrary guidelines, who probably knows less about that specific prototype than I do (not because I'm so amazing, but because I did the research on the model). I stay as far away as possible from "contests" of any sort for that reason... contests often have very little to do with modeling skill and especially prototype modeling. Typically, when contests go away, the number of models displayed GOES UP. I may be kidding myself, but I think I do OK as a modeler without the need for anybody else to pass judgement.

 

Second, with respect to modeling and RTR, you must live in a vacuum. We are surrounded by amazingly skilled modelers, perhaps more so than at any other time in the history of model railroading. Model building is alive and well. Just look at this list and other lists associated with folks who are here. I'm typing this from Cocoa Beach where the ballroom is full of models. a few may have been RTR (there are a few brass models and some RTR plastic) but none are "out of the box". Every one of those models has been worked on in some way. I have no fear that kitbashers and scratch builders will disappear.

 

In addition, I think you need to be careful being judgmental about what is "modeling".  Beautifully weathering an out of the box RTR Rapido car is also modeling and IMHO should be celebrated as such.

 

No. The sky is not falling,

Sincerely,

Bruce Smith

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts



Re: Cocoa Beach 2022

Tim O'Connor
 


I always assumed it was because there are many such events on the west coast (I knew of some
spectacular one day Free-Mo meets) and so it's mainly aimed at local modelers and vendors or
perhaps folks from nearby states. California has a LOT of fine modelers and fine model railroads,
so call it a land of plenty. :-)

Chicago and St Louis are centrally located and are relatively short trips for most Americans and Canadians.
And Cocoa Beach is just a very nice place to be in January compared to everywhere north of there. :-)
Personally I wish CB was in March or April but I think they chose January because it's the slowest season
so hotel rates are at a low point then.


On 1/13/2022 11:30 AM, Eric Hansmann wrote:

Andy,

 

Your note brings up a question that has been on my mind for several years.

 

Where is the West Coast equivalent of the Chicago and Cocoa Beach RPM events? I’ve noticed one day events but that’s been it.

 

I know Martin had an annual California event. Joe D’Elia has hosted the one day Western Prototype Modelers meet. There’s the annual Bay Area Prototype Meet, and a one day Bridgeport, Oregon meet. But none of these are similar to the two-day (or more) events such as Prototype Rails, RPM Chicagoland, RPM-Valley Forge, RPM-East, New England/Northeast RPM, Mid-Atlantic RPM, or several others on the RPM calendar.
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/rpm-event-calendar/

 

Why has the West Coast mainly held one day RPM events?

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Cocoa Beach 2022

Scott Kremer
 

No, you are not.  We are having one of our periodic Zoom meetings tonight and that will be number one on our agenda.  We have had a very good response to the convention.  We had blocked a significant number of rooms but it appears that we need more.  We will work with the hotel to do that.  You may not be aware but if we over block rooms and they are not sold we have to pay for them.  As a consequence we have had to be somewhat careful on this.  The good news is that we have all of the public spaces for the convention so there is little reason for others, not associated with the convention, to stay there.  Give us a couple of days to get with the hotel and increase the block of available rooms.

Scott Kremer

Chairman IndyJunction 2022

On Jan 13, 2022, at 4:05 PM, np328 <jcdworkingonthenp@...> wrote:

And at 3PM CST Thursday, as I look at rooms for the Indy Meet, I get a "some dates are sold out".   Am I the only one?        James Dick - Roseville, MN 


Re: Cocoa Beach 2022

Dick Harley
 


Eric asked: "Why has the West Coast mainly held one day RPM events?"

Could it be that folks don't want to pay West Coast hotel rates?

Maybe we West Coasters just have shorter attention spans.

Maybe there are too many people out here already, and we don't want to encourage any more.


Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA


Re: Cocoa Beach 2022

np328
 

And at 3PM CST Thursday, as I look at rooms for the Indy Meet, I get a "some dates are sold out".   Am I the only one?        James Dick - Roseville, MN 


Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Cocoa Beach 2022

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Guys;

 

Having been a person deeply involved in WPM events in past, there was not sufficient interest in financially successfully supporting a multi-day event, either from participants, nor venues.

 

Different audience, vendors, venues, period.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 12:49 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Cocoa Beach 2022

 

Andy,

 

I understand that is what you and other West Coasters to, but it doesn't answer the question.

 

Why has the West Coast mainly held one day RPM events?

 

 

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

On 01/13/2022 9:59 AM Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

 

 

 

Eric, for the Naperville type of meets we out west get on board a plane and head out to the rest of the nation. One-days are, as you suspected, our only available meets.

-Andy

 

 


Re: Cocoa Beach 2022

Tom Madden
 

On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 11:21 AM, Jim Betz wrote:
Hello Friends,

  I get it that Cocoa Beach is "the most important event of the year" for freight car
modelling.  I agree with that - 100%.

  Having said that I have to ask - when did this list's purpose get changed to include
the topic of "how to get to Cocoa Beach"?
Mike Brock and Jeff Aley are the co-owners of this list, and also the two most visible organizers behind the Cocoa Beach meets. I would think most anything CB related is fodder for the RealSTMFC list - although some years ago Mike did clamp down on a subscriber who insisted on posting Florida severe weather alerts here...

Tom Madden


Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

On a similar vein, I always used to enjoy the snapshots that people would send into Model Railroader magazine for Trackside Photos.

 

Some of the photos were of poor quality (drugstore developed Brownie or later Instamatic shots) but they showed some piece of equipment or portion of a layout that the sender was proud of and wanted to share and there was always something one could learn from the submissions.

 

Now only photos of very high modeling excellence and photographic standard gets published and they are much less interesting. 

 

I wonder how many people gave up on the Hobby because they felt they would never be able to rise to such lofty heights?

The magazine reverted to “Model Railroading is Fun” but I’m not sure judging by “experts” is the best way to encourage excellence in modeling.

 

Popular vote contests or just plain exhibits of work….even projects in progress….are a much better way to grow the enjoyment of the Hobby.  

 

I think the RPM movement would not be where it is today if a panel of judges would mete out ribbons based on some scoring system.

 

Charlie Vlk

 

PS- Is the advent of 3D CAD and Rapid Prototype printing another sign of the demise of craftsmanship in the Hobby of Model Railroading?   Should we all revert to bronze sand castings and salvaging material from cigar boxes, tin cans and shirt cardboards to be worthy?   

 

I think the State of Modeling is higher than it ever has been. The state of Understanding and Research of the Prototype arguably is higher than it was when a person could go out and measure and photograph the real thing.  We have materials available that allow more accurate representation of the prototype.

 

I got out of HO and into N Scale in 1967 when I realized that I would have to scratch build every car for the CB&Q and it was before styrene sheet and shapes, resin casting (beyond tree stumps!), road specific production models were available.  Now HO has RTR production models of CB&Q equipment and many resin kits for most freight cars and many passenger cars, N Scale has fewer kits but with 3D CAD I will have to start modeling the Q again because rapid prototyping can produce anything I want…including steam locomotives and road specific diesels, freight and passenger cars.

 

People poo-poo RTR cars but I want to spend my time on CB&Q prototypes.  I am not going to spend time on building ordinary cars to put in a freight train from the PRR, ATSF, SAL, etc. unless a particular car is not available and it catches my fancy.  RTR allows me to have a train to run and I can trade $$$ for time to spend on projects that I want…including building a layout.

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of naptownprr
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 11:59 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

 

Elden,

 

Try this address:

 

 

Jim Hunter


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 7:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

 

Jim;

 

Agree.  It was past time the PRRT&HS contests went away.  More photos from our modelers are always great!

 

Flip me a personal email address.  Your messages are being quarantined.

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of naptownprr
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

 

Hooray! I see things vey similarly, Bruce.  I enjoy looking at other people's models, but I'm glad to get away from contests.

 

Jim Hunter

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 4:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

 

This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.

 


Bruce, I agree. This photo I've included is a shot of a Ready-To-Run Athearn diesel, unmodified except for the
weathering applied by Gary Christensen. Gary builds incredible dioramas with realistically weathered RTR models.
And he photographs them as well. Younger modelers - not raised on kits - who can do this are all over the world
and can be seen at major train shows like Springfield MA every January (well, except for 2021, and maybe 2022).

So yeah, the modeling art is alive and well. :-)

Tim O'Connor


On 1/8/2022 1:02 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

Ron,

 

Seriously? A couple of points. First, with respect to contests. If that's your thing, fine, but it's never been mine. While I certainly appreciate feedback on my models, I have never built them to please anyone except myself, and certainly not some "judge" using arbitrary guidelines, who probably knows less about that specific prototype than I do (not because I'm so amazing, but because I did the research on the model). I stay as far away as possible from "contests" of any sort for that reason... contests often have very little to do with modeling skill and especially prototype modeling. Typically, when contests go away, the number of models displayed GOES UP. I may be kidding myself, but I think I do OK as a modeler without the need for anybody else to pass judgement.

 

Second, with respect to modeling and RTR, you must live in a vacuum. We are surrounded by amazingly skilled modelers, perhaps more so than at any other time in the history of model railroading. Model building is alive and well. Just look at this list and other lists associated with folks who are here. I'm typing this from Cocoa Beach where the ballroom is full of models. a few may have been RTR (there are a few brass models and some RTR plastic) but none are "out of the box". Every one of those models has been worked on in some way. I have no fear that kitbashers and scratch builders will disappear.

 

In addition, I think you need to be careful being judgmental about what is "modeling".  Beautifully weathering an out of the box RTR Rapido car is also modeling and IMHO should be celebrated as such.

 

No. The sky is not falling,

Sincerely,

Bruce Smith

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Cocoa Beach 2022

Jim Betz
 

Hello Friends,

  I get it that Cocoa Beach is "the most important event of the year" for freight car
modelling.  I agree with that - 100%.

  Having said that I have to ask - when did this list's purpose get changed to include
the topic of "how to get to Cocoa Beach"?
                                                                                                         - Jim


Re: Was this part ever made?

 

Pierre , Not that I am aware of. It would be a very welcome detail in HO.

Rich Christie

On Thursday, January 13, 2022, 10:18:34 AM CST, Pierre Oliver <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:


I'm looking for the latches that would have been on end door cars in HO
scale
I have some in O from Chooch, but I can't recall if they were ever done
in HO
Thanks

--
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com







Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

naptownprr
 

Elden,

Try this address:

jhthistle2013@...

Jim Hunter

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 7:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?
 

Jim;

 

Agree.  It was past time the PRRT&HS contests went away.  More photos from our modelers are always great!

 

Flip me a personal email address.  Your messages are being quarantined.

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of naptownprr
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

 

Hooray! I see things vey similarly, Bruce.  I enjoy looking at other people's models, but I'm glad to get away from contests.

 

Jim Hunter

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 4:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] Iron Modeler competition?

 

This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.

 


Bruce, I agree. This photo I've included is a shot of a Ready-To-Run Athearn diesel, unmodified except for the
weathering applied by Gary Christensen. Gary builds incredible dioramas with realistically weathered RTR models.
And he photographs them as well. Younger modelers - not raised on kits - who can do this are all over the world
and can be seen at major train shows like Springfield MA every January (well, except for 2021, and maybe 2022).

So yeah, the modeling art is alive and well. :-)

Tim O'Connor


On 1/8/2022 1:02 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

Ron,

 

Seriously? A couple of points. First, with respect to contests. If that's your thing, fine, but it's never been mine. While I certainly appreciate feedback on my models, I have never built them to please anyone except myself, and certainly not some "judge" using arbitrary guidelines, who probably knows less about that specific prototype than I do (not because I'm so amazing, but because I did the research on the model). I stay as far away as possible from "contests" of any sort for that reason... contests often have very little to do with modeling skill and especially prototype modeling. Typically, when contests go away, the number of models displayed GOES UP. I may be kidding myself, but I think I do OK as a modeler without the need for anybody else to pass judgement.

 

Second, with respect to modeling and RTR, you must live in a vacuum. We are surrounded by amazingly skilled modelers, perhaps more so than at any other time in the history of model railroading. Model building is alive and well. Just look at this list and other lists associated with folks who are here. I'm typing this from Cocoa Beach where the ballroom is full of models. a few may have been RTR (there are a few brass models and some RTR plastic) but none are "out of the box". Every one of those models has been worked on in some way. I have no fear that kitbashers and scratch builders will disappear.

 

In addition, I think you need to be careful being judgmental about what is "modeling".  Beautifully weathering an out of the box RTR Rapido car is also modeling and IMHO should be celebrated as such.

 

No. The sky is not falling,

Sincerely,

Bruce Smith

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

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