Date   

Re: SEEKING PHOTOS

Tony Thompson
 

Ken Montero wrote:

 Interestingly enough, the Marketing East/Taurus Products/Trout Creek Engineering kit for the Rock Island reefer was also sold as a PFE R-30-13 - with notes from Nelson McCormick and Prototype Modeler.

I know, I have one of the PFE versions and have built it. It is certainly close the the PFE design if not exact. Since GATC was building PFE cars in the 1920s, it’s very possible that the Rock Island cars were copies. PFE routinely allowed use of their drawings that way.

Tony Thompson




Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Fabulous, Claus!

 

I wish I could see the flatcar!  There were not many well cars in the national fleet, and have always fascinated me.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 11:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

 

Hi Robert and List Members,

 

To save some time for those who are interested, the image of the Multiscale Digital website "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" can be seen at the link below...

 

 

Enjoy!

 

Claus Schlund

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Robert Ellis

Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 10:43 AM

Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

 

The round holes are used with Allthread, or with steel rod threaded at the end. You drop the end of the rod through the hole,  use a piece of steel plate with a hole in it like a big washer, then tighten two nuts and a flat washer on the threaded rod.  If you go on Multiscale Digital's website and look at the "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" you'll see it done in practice. Guy doesn't look too happy about that great big gash in his brand new pulley. 

 

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022, 17:06 Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

They do.  On at least some of these, the cylindrical ones do not.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 4:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

 

Jeff,

I believe that the larger square openings go all the way through the carbody. They are stake pockets and can be used as tie down points.

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jeffrey White <jrwhite@...>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, February 21, 2022 at 3:15 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

 

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go all the way through.  Tie down points is what came immediately to mind when I saw the photo.

Jeff White Alma IL

 

On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Jeff;

 

I am not sure your question was answered, and I never looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC cast flat often referred to as a “Commonwealth” flat.

 

Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year built.

 

There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the flat.  The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake pockets.  Some cars had four at each end; these have two.

 

The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I was told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances of cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting.  There are obviously numerous circular depressions in the surface of the casting inboard of the draft gear and bolster.

 

The flats I crawled over had depressions that did NOT go the entire depth of the casting.  I could not figure out a way they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these cars.  They collected a lot of dirt.

 

Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles.  See attached.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeffrey White
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2022 5:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

 

I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel Castings.

I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the deck. 

Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.

Jeff White Alma IL


Re: Ps-0 boxcars

Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
 

Philip: Definitely not RPCyc. I checked.  RMJ  had a brief mention of the TPW cars -- secondhand from C&O, I think -- in one of their first articles about PS-1s,  so 1990 or 91.  They had a follow up in the late 90s, but it was nowhere near as comprehensive as the one we're remembering. It wasn't in Ted Culotta's Essential Freight Cars, so almost certainly Mainline Modeler.  Unfortunately, mine are in storage. I hope someone knows for sure.  Thanks, Bob. 


On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 12:55 Philip Dove <philipdove22@...> wrote:
I  remember reading the same, which means it was probably in an early RPCyc, or Mainline modeller in the 1990s.

On Wed, 23 Feb 2022, 16:36 Robert Ellis, <bobjel67@...> wrote:
Several years ago, I read a very long, comprehensive article about the PS-0, which included several engineering drawings and numerous test reports.  Unfortunately, I can't remember where I saw it. What I THINK I remember is, in 1936, Pullman built one experimental car of all-welded construction and gave it to the UP for testing.  The idea was to prove the efficacy of fusion welding, and to save weight by using thinner panels of high carbon steel. It suffered major structural damage, and was returned to Pullman and dismantled. 
      In 1938, Pullman built (I think) 1000 cars with 10' ih to much the same design, but using thicker panels. These cars had welded underframes, 5 panel 9 rib ends, 18 panel sides, 7 panel welded 6' doors, and 20(?) panel radial roofs.  They were sold to 3 roads: B&LE, CGW, and (I think) UP.  In 1940, Pullman built 1500 more cars with 10'6" ih and 10 rib ends for WLE, NKP, and PM. 
     The War Production Board considered the design experimental, and forbade its further production.  In 1941, Pullman built several lots of riveted 1937 AAR boxcars with Pullman proprietary ends and roofs, for the B&O, NKP, TC, and WLE. These were entirely different cars. 
      That's from memory, and I welcome correction.  Bob Ellis. 

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022, 07:02 Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Anthony Wenzel Enterprises = AWE

Oriental was sold to Challenger (Albert Ichelson)

AWE imported not-quite-exact copies of a number of Shoreham Shops brass passenger cars
from Samhongsa. This was around the time that Samhongsa was successfully sued by Lionel
and maybe MTH for using their designs to produce models for other importers, which ended
up bankrupting Samhongsa. Shoreham Shops morphed into Rail Classics (change of owners
or something else?) but I don't know if it was related to this mess.

The only AWE freight car I know about is the 1930's welded Pullman Standard box car.

Tim O'Connor


On 2/21/2022 9:00 PM, gary laakso wrote:

AW were the initials of the founder of Oriental Limited, a brass importer, and with that business reduced, he added an E for Enterprise and brought in a few brass pieces and a the GN wood ore and coal resin kit.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 5:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Ps-0 boxcars

 

Who's AWE?

I couldn't find this listing, but then I'm not looking to bid anyway.  I built one of the F&C cars years ago, and may have used the decals that came in the box.  Spent some time filing the sill tabs and a few other things at an angle on the back side so that the thickness wasn't so obvious.

Ron Merrick


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Ps-0 boxcars

Philip Dove
 

I  remember reading the same, which means it was probably in an early RPCyc, or Mainline modeller in the 1990s.


On Wed, 23 Feb 2022, 16:36 Robert Ellis, <bobjel67@...> wrote:
Several years ago, I read a very long, comprehensive article about the PS-0, which included several engineering drawings and numerous test reports.  Unfortunately, I can't remember where I saw it. What I THINK I remember is, in 1936, Pullman built one experimental car of all-welded construction and gave it to the UP for testing.  The idea was to prove the efficacy of fusion welding, and to save weight by using thinner panels of high carbon steel. It suffered major structural damage, and was returned to Pullman and dismantled. 
      In 1938, Pullman built (I think) 1000 cars with 10' ih to much the same design, but using thicker panels. These cars had welded underframes, 5 panel 9 rib ends, 18 panel sides, 7 panel welded 6' doors, and 20(?) panel radial roofs.  They were sold to 3 roads: B&LE, CGW, and (I think) UP.  In 1940, Pullman built 1500 more cars with 10'6" ih and 10 rib ends for WLE, NKP, and PM. 
     The War Production Board considered the design experimental, and forbade its further production.  In 1941, Pullman built several lots of riveted 1937 AAR boxcars with Pullman proprietary ends and roofs, for the B&O, NKP, TC, and WLE. These were entirely different cars. 
      That's from memory, and I welcome correction.  Bob Ellis. 

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022, 07:02 Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Anthony Wenzel Enterprises = AWE

Oriental was sold to Challenger (Albert Ichelson)

AWE imported not-quite-exact copies of a number of Shoreham Shops brass passenger cars
from Samhongsa. This was around the time that Samhongsa was successfully sued by Lionel
and maybe MTH for using their designs to produce models for other importers, which ended
up bankrupting Samhongsa. Shoreham Shops morphed into Rail Classics (change of owners
or something else?) but I don't know if it was related to this mess.

The only AWE freight car I know about is the 1930's welded Pullman Standard box car.

Tim O'Connor


On 2/21/2022 9:00 PM, gary laakso wrote:

AW were the initials of the founder of Oriental Limited, a brass importer, and with that business reduced, he added an E for Enterprise and brought in a few brass pieces and a the GN wood ore and coal resin kit.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 5:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Ps-0 boxcars

 

Who's AWE?

I couldn't find this listing, but then I'm not looking to bid anyway.  I built one of the F&C cars years ago, and may have used the decals that came in the box.  Spent some time filing the sill tabs and a few other things at an angle on the back side so that the thickness wasn't so obvious.

Ron Merrick


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
 

Thanks, Claus. I don't know how to do stuff like that, I'm afraid.  Btw, I should have specified the round holes in the end sills and the outboard edge of the bolster.  Obviously the circular depressions in the bolster itself and the draft gear couldn't be tiedowns. I wasn't aware they were for stress relief.  Thanks, Elden. Bob Ellis. 


On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 11:40 Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi Robert and List Members,
 
To save some time for those who are interested, the image of the Multiscale Digital website "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" can be seen at the link below...
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

The round holes are used with Allthread, or with steel rod threaded at the end. You drop the end of the rod through the hole,  use a piece of steel plate with a hole in it like a big washer, then tighten two nuts and a flat washer on the threaded rod.  If you go on Multiscale Digital's website and look at the "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" you'll see it done in practice. Guy doesn't look too happy about that great big gash in his brand new pulley. 

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022, 17:06 Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

They do.  On at least some of these, the cylindrical ones do not.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 4:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

 

Jeff,

I believe that the larger square openings go all the way through the carbody. They are stake pockets and can be used as tie down points.

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jeffrey White <jrwhite@...>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, February 21, 2022 at 3:15 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

 

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go all the way through.  Tie down points is what came immediately to mind when I saw the photo.

Jeff White Alma IL

 

On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Jeff;

 

I am not sure your question was answered, and I never looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC cast flat often referred to as a “Commonwealth” flat.

 

Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year built.

 

There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the flat.  The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake pockets.  Some cars had four at each end; these have two.

 

The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I was told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances of cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting.  There are obviously numerous circular depressions in the surface of the casting inboard of the draft gear and bolster.

 

The flats I crawled over had depressions that did NOT go the entire depth of the casting.  I could not figure out a way they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these cars.  They collected a lot of dirt.

 

Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles.  See attached.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeffrey White
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2022 5:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

 

I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel Castings.

I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the deck. 

Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.

Jeff White Alma IL


Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)
 


Hi Robert and List Members,
 
To save some time for those who are interested, the image of the Multiscale Digital website "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" can be seen at the link below...
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2022 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

The round holes are used with Allthread, or with steel rod threaded at the end. You drop the end of the rod through the hole,  use a piece of steel plate with a hole in it like a big washer, then tighten two nuts and a flat washer on the threaded rod.  If you go on Multiscale Digital's website and look at the "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" you'll see it done in practice. Guy doesn't look too happy about that great big gash in his brand new pulley. 

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022, 17:06 Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

They do.  On at least some of these, the cylindrical ones do not.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 4:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

 

Jeff,

I believe that the larger square openings go all the way through the carbody. They are stake pockets and can be used as tie down points.

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jeffrey White <jrwhite@...>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, February 21, 2022 at 3:15 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

 

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go all the way through.  Tie down points is what came immediately to mind when I saw the photo.

Jeff White Alma IL

 

On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Jeff;

 

I am not sure your question was answered, and I never looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC cast flat often referred to as a “Commonwealth” flat.

 

Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year built.

 

There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the flat.  The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake pockets.  Some cars had four at each end; these have two.

 

The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I was told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances of cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting.  There are obviously numerous circular depressions in the surface of the casting inboard of the draft gear and bolster.

 

The flats I crawled over had depressions that did NOT go the entire depth of the casting.  I could not figure out a way they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these cars.  They collected a lot of dirt.

 

Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles.  See attached.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeffrey White
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2022 5:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

 

I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel Castings.

I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the deck. 

Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.

Jeff White Alma IL


Re: Ps-0 boxcars

Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
 

Several years ago, I read a very long, comprehensive article about the PS-0, which included several engineering drawings and numerous test reports.  Unfortunately, I can't remember where I saw it. What I THINK I remember is, in 1936, Pullman built one experimental car of all-welded construction and gave it to the UP for testing.  The idea was to prove the efficacy of fusion welding, and to save weight by using thinner panels of high carbon steel. It suffered major structural damage, and was returned to Pullman and dismantled. 
      In 1938, Pullman built (I think) 1000 cars with 10' ih to much the same design, but using thicker panels. These cars had welded underframes, 5 panel 9 rib ends, 18 panel sides, 7 panel welded 6' doors, and 20(?) panel radial roofs.  They were sold to 3 roads: B&LE, CGW, and (I think) UP.  In 1940, Pullman built 1500 more cars with 10'6" ih and 10 rib ends for WLE, NKP, and PM. 
     The War Production Board considered the design experimental, and forbade its further production.  In 1941, Pullman built several lots of riveted 1937 AAR boxcars with Pullman proprietary ends and roofs, for the B&O, NKP, TC, and WLE. These were entirely different cars. 
      That's from memory, and I welcome correction.  Bob Ellis. 

On Tue, Feb 22, 2022, 07:02 Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Anthony Wenzel Enterprises = AWE

Oriental was sold to Challenger (Albert Ichelson)

AWE imported not-quite-exact copies of a number of Shoreham Shops brass passenger cars
from Samhongsa. This was around the time that Samhongsa was successfully sued by Lionel
and maybe MTH for using their designs to produce models for other importers, which ended
up bankrupting Samhongsa. Shoreham Shops morphed into Rail Classics (change of owners
or something else?) but I don't know if it was related to this mess.

The only AWE freight car I know about is the 1930's welded Pullman Standard box car.

Tim O'Connor


On 2/21/2022 9:00 PM, gary laakso wrote:

AW were the initials of the founder of Oriental Limited, a brass importer, and with that business reduced, he added an E for Enterprise and brought in a few brass pieces and a the GN wood ore and coal resin kit.

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 5:25 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Ps-0 boxcars

 

Who's AWE?

I couldn't find this listing, but then I'm not looking to bid anyway.  I built one of the F&C cars years ago, and may have used the decals that came in the box.  Spent some time filing the sill tabs and a few other things at an angle on the back side so that the thickness wasn't so obvious.

Ron Merrick


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

Robert Ellis <bobjel67@...>
 

The round holes are used with Allthread, or with steel rod threaded at the end. You drop the end of the rod through the hole,  use a piece of steel plate with a hole in it like a big washer, then tighten two nuts and a flat washer on the threaded rod.  If you go on Multiscale Digital's website and look at the "Massive Bethlehem Steel geared pulley" you'll see it done in practice. Guy doesn't look too happy about that great big gash in his brand new pulley. 


On Mon, Feb 21, 2022, 17:06 Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

They do.  On at least some of these, the cylindrical ones do not.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bruce Smith
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 4:26 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

 

Jeff,

I believe that the larger square openings go all the way through the carbody. They are stake pockets and can be used as tie down points.

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jeffrey White <jrwhite@...>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, February 21, 2022 at 3:15 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

 

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Thanks Eldon, I didn't know the holes didn't go all the way through.  Tie down points is what came immediately to mind when I saw the photo.

Jeff White Alma IL

 

On 2/21/2022 9:09 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Jeff;

 

I am not sure your question was answered, and I never looked at the IC flat specifically, but can speak to another GSC cast flat often referred to as a “Commonwealth” flat.

 

Keep in mind that castings varied by owner and year built.

 

There were two kinds of “holes” in the deck of the flat.  The obvious ones were the square holes cast in as stake pockets.  Some cars had four at each end; these have two.

 

The other, more numerous “holes”, were, from what I was told, “stress-relieving” depressions cast in to minimize chances of cracking in the slowest-cooling portion of the casting.  There are obviously numerous circular depressions in the surface of the casting inboard of the draft gear and bolster.

 

The flats I crawled over had depressions that did NOT go the entire depth of the casting.  I could not figure out a way they were used to secure loads, but I do not know these cars.  They collected a lot of dirt.

 

Some GSC cast flats did have tie-downs welded to the side sill at the rim, in the form of steel circles.  See attached.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeffrey White
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2022 5:58 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [URL Verdict: Neutral][Non-DoD Source] [RealSTMFC] Tie down holes in GSC flat cars?

 

I cam across this photo of IC flats being assembled at the IC's Centralia car shops from frames bought from General Steel Castings.

I've never seen these holes in the steel at each end of the deck. 

Maybe I've just missed them in other photos.

Jeff White Alma IL


Re: History of CCB and Naperville/Lisle/Chicagoland RPM Events

Tim O'Connor
 


I had kept all of my clinic schedules from all of the RPM's I've attended (many!) but
a couple of years ago I decided to recycle a ton of old papers... I just guessed that among
us there would be more than one hoarder like myself... :-D

We're just dust in the wind, after all... ;-)

On 2/23/2022 6:50 AM, golden1014 via groups.io wrote:

Hi Gentlemen,

Does anyone know if there is a history published anywhere of the Cocoa Beach and Naperville/Lisle/Chicagoland RPM Events?  

I'm looking into this for selfish reasons.  I'd like to know when I attended these events, and at which events I presented clinics.  I'm hoping there's a history out there that has all the agendas going back to around 2003 or so.

Thanks Much!
John Golden

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


History of CCB and Naperville/Lisle/Chicagoland RPM Events

golden1014
 

Hi Gentlemen,

Does anyone know if there is a history published anywhere of the Cocoa Beach and Naperville/Lisle/Chicagoland RPM Events?  

I'm looking into this for selfish reasons.  I'd like to know when I attended these events, and at which events I presented clinics.  I'm hoping there's a history out there that has all the agendas going back to around 2003 or so.

Thanks Much!
John Golden


Re: SEEKING PHOTOS

Kenneth Montero
 

Tony,

Interestingly enough, the Marketing East/Taurus Products/Trout Creek Engineering kit for the Rock Island reefer was also sold as a PFE R-30-13 - with notes from Nelson McCormick and Prototype Modeler.

Ken Montero

On 02/22/2022 6:45 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


Steve Hile wrote;

Plus the RI sold their reefers to GATC in 1932, leasing back those it needed but now with GARX reporting marks.


Don’t forget that Rock Island approached PFE about 1950, asking if they could get the same deal the WP had (buy the reefers, let PFE run them, receive payments for use). I wrote about that, and made a “what if” model, as described here:


But PFE turned them down.

Tony Thompson



Re: SEEKING PHOTOS

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

For the real old timers who never threw anything away drawings of this car and a photo were featured in one of the early TRAIN. SHED CYCLOPEDIA series..  I feel fortunate that I have about eight issues of this and regularly refer to them.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Kenneth Montero <va661midlo@...>
Date: 2/22/22 4:31 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTOS

Some of the photos of the Rock Island paint scheme with a drawing of the car also appear in a Mainline Modeler article about this refrigerator car. (Mainline Modeler, April 1999, starting at page 43)

That article, and a discussion of the Marketing East/Taurus Products/Trout Creek Engineering kit and defects in the MM drawing are discussed in my prior email in this group's records:
I have the instructions for that kit, if you need them.

The instructions say that the history in the instructions came from George Berisso and Prototype Modeler (without specifying any particular issue of that magazine), It said thast the cars were Rock Island nos. 67750 through 67799 were built by General American Car Company in 1924 with a 40 ton capacity, with a AAR classification of RS.

Ken Montero
On 02/22/2022 1:47 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


On 2/22/2022 1:39 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:
Bill, with a number like that, it would more likely be a hopper car.  Such
as they were, the RI reefers were numbered in 6xxxx series.

Let me know if I can help.

Regards,
Steve Hile

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 12:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTOS

 I am looking for photos of a Rock Island refer in the 87900 series. Would
greatly appreciate any help.

Bill Pardie

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: SEEKING PHOTOS

Kenneth Montero
 

Some of the photos of the Rock Island paint scheme with a drawing of the car also appear in a Mainline Modeler article about this refrigerator car. (Mainline Modeler, April 1999, starting at page 43)

That article, and a discussion of the Marketing East/Taurus Products/Trout Creek Engineering kit and defects in the MM drawing are discussed in my prior email in this group's records:
I have the instructions for that kit, if you need them.

The instructions say that the history in the instructions came from George Berisso and Prototype Modeler (without specifying any particular issue of that magazine), It said thast the cars were Rock Island nos. 67750 through 67799 were built by General American Car Company in 1924 with a 40 ton capacity, with a AAR classification of RS.

Ken Montero

On 02/22/2022 1:47 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


On 2/22/2022 1:39 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:
Bill, with a number like that, it would more likely be a hopper car.  Such
as they were, the RI reefers were numbered in 6xxxx series.

Let me know if I can help.

Regards,
Steve Hile

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 12:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTOS

 I am looking for photos of a Rock Island refer in the 87900 series. Would
greatly appreciate any help.

Bill Pardie

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: SEEKING PHOTOS

Tony Thompson
 


Tim O'Connor wrote:

Perhaps UP nixed that idea, since the Rock Island could siphon off some
Overland Route revenues. Not a problem with the SP as I can figure. WP on
the other hand, would seem much more of a siphon on the SP.

Yes, UP objected that RI was a competitor of theirs in the Midwest. Both SP and UP objected to the fact that there was no convenient PFE shop facility near RI territory, and that the volume of RI perishable business was paltry; had a similar harvest season to UP, so no benefit from “out of season” cars; and eastward trips from RI territory were shorter, thus generating less PFE revenue.  

Tony Thompson


Re: SEEKING PHOTOS

Tim O'Connor
 


Perhaps UP nixed that idea, since the Rock Island could siphon off some
Overland Route revenues. Not a problem with the SP as I can figure. WP on
the other hand, would seem much more of a siphon on the SP.

On 2/22/2022 6:45 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:

Steve Hile wrote;

Plus the RI sold their reefers to GATC in 1932, leasing back those it needed but now with GARX reporting marks.


Don’t forget that Rock Island approached PFE about 1950, asking if they could get the same deal the WP had (buy the reefers, let PFE run them, receive payments for use). I wrote about that, and made a “what if” model, as described here:


But PFE turned them down.

Tony Thompson


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: SEEKING PHOTOS

Tony Thompson
 

Steve Hile wrote;

Plus the RI sold their reefers to GATC in 1932, leasing back those it needed but now with GARX reporting marks.


Don’t forget that Rock Island approached PFE about 1950, asking if they could get the same deal the WP had (buy the reefers, let PFE run them, receive payments for use). I wrote about that, and made a “what if” model, as described here:


But PFE turned them down.

Tony Thompson



Re: SEEKING PHOTOS

 

Larger size.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 4:23 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTOS

 


:-)


On 2/22/2022 3:53 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

Plus the RI sold their reefers to GATC in 1932, leasing back those it needed but now with GARX reporting marks.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 12:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTOS

 

On 2/22/2022 1:39 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

Bill, with a number like that, it would more likely be a hopper car.  Such
as they were, the RI reefers were numbered in 6xxxx series.
 
Let me know if I can help.
 
Regards,
Steve Hile
 
-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 12:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTOS
 
 I am looking for photos of a Rock Island refer in the 87900 series. Would
greatly appreciate any help.
 
Bill Pardie

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: SEEKING PHOTOS

 

 

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 at 12:47 PM
To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTOS

 

On 2/22/2022 1:39 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

Bill, with a number like that, it would more likely be a hopper car.  Such
as they were, the RI reefers were numbered in 6xxxx series.
 
Let me know if I can help.
 
Regards,
Steve Hile
 
-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 12:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTOS
 
 I am looking for photos of a Rock Island refer in the 87900 series. Would
greatly appreciate any help.
 
Bill Pardie


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: SEEKING PHOTOS

Tim O'Connor
 


:-)

On 2/22/2022 3:53 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

Plus the RI sold their reefers to GATC in 1932, leasing back those it needed but now with GARX reporting marks.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 12:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTOS

 

On 2/22/2022 1:39 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

Bill, with a number like that, it would more likely be a hopper car.  Such
as they were, the RI reefers were numbered in 6xxxx series.
 
Let me know if I can help.
 
Regards,
Steve Hile
 
-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 12:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTOS
 
 I am looking for photos of a Rock Island refer in the 87900 series. Would
greatly appreciate any help.
 
Bill Pardie


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: SEEKING PHOTOS

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Well, it looks like I can still do the car with the Rock Island herald and GARX reporting marks.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...>
Date: 2/22/22 12:04 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTOS

Ouch!  Thanks Steve.  Glad to know that before I built the car.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...>
Date: 2/22/22 10:53 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTOS

Plus the RI sold their reefers to GATC in 1932, leasing back those it needed but now with GARX reporting marks.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 12:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTOS

 

On 2/22/2022 1:39 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

Bill, with a number like that, it would more likely be a hopper car.  Such
as they were, the RI reefers were numbered in 6xxxx series.
 
Let me know if I can help.
 
Regards,
Steve Hile
 
-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of WILLIAM PARDIE
Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2022 12:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] SEEKING PHOTOS
 
 I am looking for photos of a Rock Island refer in the 87900 series. Would
greatly appreciate any help.
 
Bill Pardie


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

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