Date   

Re: Reefer Madness…WFEX queen post question

Charlie Duckworth
 

Jack and Dennis
Thanks for the input; now to manufacture eight queen posts.  

Due to the angle of the post and the tension from the fishing line I’ve flatten some brass wire to start filing into a post. I’ll use plastic shapes to add the details.  
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Reefer Madness…WFEX queen post question

Jack Mullen
 

I did more or less as Dennis described, except starting with wheel diameter to establish scale, and estimating the adjustment to project about 2' forward to the plane of the side. Then vertical measurements gave 8" for the needle beam, which is plausible,  and about 15" bottom of needle beam to centerline of truss rod. 
As a check on reasonableness, that scale gives 12" door sill to bottom of side sill, 7" reporting marks, and 10" WESTERN FRUIT EXPRESS. Sill to top of rail seems to be about 40", again guesstimating projection of the TOR to the side plane. All these derived dimensions are of course somewhat approximate, but plausible values.  YMMV.


Jack Mullen


Related question: Vallejo equivalent to Polly Scale Light Freight Car Red

Peter Hall
 

Has anyone found an equivalent in Vallejo colors to the old Poly Scale Light Freight Car Red?

Thanks
Pete


Re: Accupaint "Improved Formula" Light Tuscan Oxide Red

Richard McQuade
 

Thanks for this, Doug.


Re: Reefer Madness…WFEX queen post question

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 05:29 PM, Charlie Duckworth wrote:
Heres two images from Bill Welch’s article on the angled queen posts.  Appreciate your thoughts on the length  

Charlie 
Well, since these cars have full wood underframes, you have to go back in time to find any useful dimensions. Looking through the 1909 Car Builder's Dictionary:
https://archive.org/details/carbuildersdic00mast
I find that it was common for such underframes to have the bottom of the sills 39" - 40" above the rail, and having the truss rod drop 24" below the sill was not uncommon, which would put it 15" - 16" above the rail, which would put it in line or slightly below the center of the wheels, which does appear to be the case from the upper photo you posted. The lower photo appears to be almost perpendicular to the horizontal plane of the bottom portion of the rods. Try this, print it out big, and measure, in line with the siding grooves, from the sill to the rail. Divide that number by 40, and use the result for the value of one inch, and use that to determine the depth of the rods below the sill, also the depth of the channel section needle beams. that will be as close as you can come, lacking a drawing of the underframe.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Reefer Madness…WFEX queen post question

Charlie Duckworth
 

Dennis
Heres two images from Bill Welch’s article on the angled queen posts.  Appreciate your thoughts on the length  

Charlie 



--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Accupaint "Improved Formula" Light Tuscan Oxide Red

Douglas Harding
 

Light Tuscan Oxide Red was a color in the Accuflex line, which is now Badger's ModelFlex line. The color is still available.
 
Doug Harding
Youtube: Douglas Harding Iowa Central Railroad


Re: Reefer Madness…WFEX queen post question

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 01:46 PM, Charlie Duckworth wrote:
That’s somewhat what I did and came up with 18” as well.   Grandt Line parts is now part of San Juan Details and they show a 3”, 5” and 10” queen post set. I have several of the 10” so I’ll cut these up to make an 18”.  I’ll make one and place it on the car at the angle and see if it looks like the prototype. 
 
18" sounds way long for a freight car. Are you including the height of the needle beam (typically 8" to 10") in that figure? Can you post a pix of the prototype?

Dennis Storzek
 


Re: Photo: Poultry Car NHX 6000

Douglas Harding
 

There were several different designs for poultry cars, built by different companies, for different companies. The NHX 6000 is one of the last such cars built, using an ACF design. Through the years there were changes made, from the first in 1884, known as the Jenkins/Streetor poultry car. The car was quickly redesigned to address design flaws with the original car. New patents for the changes were issued to Jenkins in 1885, 1888, and again in 1891. Eventually Jenkins formed the Live Poultry Car Company, utilizing his improved design.

The American Live Poultry Company began operations in 1909 using a patent from Burgett - a very closed car with tight slats and louvers, thought to protect the birds from the harsh northern climates. The company and the car design failed to catch on, and dissolved by 1911.

In 1909, LEMAC Carrier Company tried to get in the game with 150 live poultry cars. (1910 O.R.E.R.). By 1917, they had quickly built a fleet of 400 cars. However, LEMAC was sued for patent infringement by the Live Poultry Transportation Company. Even with advertisements stating they had their own “new” patented design for cars, LEMAC vanishes from the records somewhere in the early 20s.

In 1924 the Live Poultry Transit Company faced its first real competition with the launch of the Palace Poultry Car Company (P.P.K.X). in 1926, the powerful North American Car Corporation took over operations.

Ambroid and Northeast Scale Models produced the “Livesay” Poultry Car and the “Speedy” poultry/reefer combo car as wood kits. Both kits can be found on eBay, but neither is prototypical. Overland imported a brass model in the 80s of a PPKX car (different design), but it also has flaws.

Details like ladders, truck spacing, roof top ventilation systems all varied as designs changed and evolved. 

Doug Harding
Youtube: Douglas Harding Iowa Central Railroad


Here’s another great reference on FGEX.

Charlie Duckworth
 


Re: Accupaint "Improved Formula" Light Tuscan Oxide Red

Richard McQuade
 

Thanks, Bill!


Here’s another PP on FGEX

Charlie Duckworth
 

--
Charlie Duckworth
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Reefer Madness…WFEX queen post question

Charlie Duckworth
 

Ed
That’s the reference  I’m using to build my car.  (Plus the Speedwitch book).  

I’ve got the underframe finished, removed the cast on ladders and hand grabs and described those areas. and now working on the queen posts.  Wife is out of town so lots of unsupervised time. 

Charlie 

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 4:48 PM Ed Walters <edward.m.walters@...> wrote:
Perhaps also worth taking a look at the instructions for the Resin Car Works mini-kit, which is, I think, a very similar project to the one you're undertaking? http://resincarworks.com/extras/extras_minikit2-01_FGEX_trussrod.htm


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Reefer Madness…WFEX queen post question

Ed Walters
 

Perhaps also worth taking a look at the instructions for the Resin Car Works mini-kit, which is, I think, a very similar project to the one you're undertaking? http://resincarworks.com/extras/extras_minikit2-01_FGEX_trussrod.htm


Re: Reefer Madness…WFEX queen post question

Charlie Duckworth
 

Scott
That’s somewhat what I did and came up with 18” as well.   Grandt Line parts is now part of San Juan Details and they show a 3”, 5” and 10” queen post set. I have several of the 10” so I’ll cut these up to make an 18”.  I’ll make one and place it on the car at the angle and see if it looks like the prototype. 

Charlie 

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 2:54 PM Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...> wrote:
Hi Charlie,

If you compare the queenposts to something of known dimension; in this case the wheels, they look more like 16''-18'' to me.

If you can print out a flat-scan of that photo, a straight edge and a pencil can be used to define the top of the wheels. The bottom of the wheels are defined by the rail.

Measure that distance with a set of calipers adjacent to one of the queenposts and write that down. Now measure the queenpost itself and write that down.

Since we are looking for a dimension shorter than the known number (33''), divide the smaller number by the the larger to get the percentage of the unknown dimension. Now multiply that number by 33 to get the length you are looking for.
This should get you within an inch or so.

This is one of those exercises that takes less time to do than to explain! Try it and you'll see the logic of the math, making it a useful thing to know when working from photos, or plans of unknown scale.  


Also, I seem to remember Grandt line making queenposts is several lengths. Didn't another company buy their line of parts?
 

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent




--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Reefer Madness…WFEX queen post question

Scott H. Haycock
 

Hi Charlie,

If you compare the queenposts to something of known dimension; in this case the wheels, they look more like 16''-18'' to me.

If you can print out a flat-scan of that photo, a straight edge and a pencil can be used to define the top of the wheels. The bottom of the wheels are defined by the rail.

Measure that distance with a set of calipers adjacent to one of the queenposts and write that down. Now measure the queenpost itself and write that down.

Since we are looking for a dimension shorter than the known number (33''), divide the smaller number by the the larger to get the percentage of the unknown dimension. Now multiply that number by 33 to get the length you are looking for.
This should get you within an inch or so.

This is one of those exercises that takes less time to do than to explain! Try it and you'll see the logic of the math, making it a useful thing to know when working from photos, or plans of unknown scale.  


Also, I seem to remember Grandt line making queenposts is several lengths. Didn't another company buy their line of parts?
 

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent




Re: Photo: Poultry Car NHX 6000

Steve SANDIFER
 

Have you noticed that virtually all of the in service photos we have of poultry cars have them as a darker color, which I propose is a box car red/brown. They certainly are not the white or yellow seen in many models. I wish we had some written documentation concerning the color of poultry cars.  

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Nelson
Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2022 12:45 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Poultry Car NHX 6000

 

I’m sure this picture haws been posted before but it’s got such nice “weathering” it’s worth digging up again.

http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-05-04-17/X1731.jpg

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2022 9:00 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Poultry Car NHX 6000

 

On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 12:58 PM, Eric Hansmann wrote:

In another recent poultry car conversation, Dennis Storzek asked, “Whare are the ladders?” It was in reference to an Ambroid model that was shared. I see on the NHX car Bob sent that there are four ladders on the car side.

I also questioned the inboard placement of the trucks, but I've now found a prototype photo with such placement:
https://www.vintagebentonville.com/bentonville-branch-of-the-frisco-railroad.html
However, the rest of the car doesn't match the Ambroid model. Lots of variation in this tiny fleet.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Reefer Madness…WFEX queen post question

O Fenton Wells
 

As Clark says, we don't need no stinking measurements ;>)


On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 3:15 PM Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:
Fenton
I’ve got this issue and also found two presentations on the web that Bill gave.  My rough measurements using the door hinge spacing on photos and the Accurail reefer is I’m coming up with the queen posts being 18” tall.  I’ll make up one from the Tichy ones I have and see how it looks compared to the photos. 

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 1:30 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
Charlie, good Bill Welch article on these cars in Prototype Railroad Modeling Vol 2. However no mention of the actual queen post lengths
Fenton 


On May 1, 2022, at 11:28 AM, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:

2B28FFA4-A6AE-4C38-B645-B5451D9CC1C8.jpegMy iPhone isn’t cooperating this week.  I’m wanting to know if the Tichy 10” queen posts will work for this car. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Reefer Madness…WFEX queen post question

Charlie Duckworth
 

Fenton
I’ve got this issue and also found two presentations on the web that Bill gave.  My rough measurements using the door hinge spacing on photos and the Accurail reefer is I’m coming up with the queen posts being 18” tall.  I’ll make up one from the Tichy ones I have and see how it looks compared to the photos. 

On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 1:30 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
Charlie, good Bill Welch article on these cars in Prototype Railroad Modeling Vol 2. However no mention of the actual queen post lengths
Fenton 


On May 1, 2022, at 11:28 AM, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:

2B28FFA4-A6AE-4C38-B645-B5451D9CC1C8.jpegMy iPhone isn’t cooperating this week.  I’m wanting to know if the Tichy 10” queen posts will work for this car. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Reefer Madness…WFEX queen post question

O Fenton Wells
 

Charlie, good Bill Welch article on these cars in Prototype Railroad Modeling Vol 2. However no mention of the actual queen post lengths
Fenton 


On May 1, 2022, at 11:28 AM, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:

2B28FFA4-A6AE-4C38-B645-B5451D9CC1C8.jpegMy iPhone isn’t cooperating this week.  I’m wanting to know if the Tichy 10” queen posts will work for this car. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.

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