Date   

Re: Westerfield NYC 1916 Modernized boxcar off the workbench

Ted Larson
 

I know of people using battery screwdrivers for low rpm drilling.  




--
Ted Larson
Trainweb.org/MHRR   ---   GN in 1965   ---   NASG.org 


Re: Bill Welch document

Alexander Schneider Jr
 

I'm not an Adobe Acrobat expert, but I believe you can significantly reduce file size by options concerning backward compatibility. I believe that the program is up to version 22 or thereabouts. If you set the option to be compatible to version 9 or later the file size will be much smaller than if you default to version 1. Since a version 22 reader is a free download, someone who just wants to read your documents doesn't need backward compatibility. 


B&O m-15k & M-15n

David
 

Aside from the changes to the side sills and replacement trucks, M-15NA and NB received 8' doors. The M-15NB rebuilds were from double-door M-15L cars, so those have 12-panel sides/roofs. M-15P received 50-ton trucks. RPC #9 is a good reference.

David Thompson


Re: Bill Welch document

Chris Barkan
 

I agree with Brian.  I did not see an answer to the question of maximum file size that could be posted in the Files section.  Do we know what that is?
--
Chris Barkan
Champaign, IL


Re: B&O m-15k & M-15n

Chris Barkan
 

Following is a brief synopsis of the B&O's M-15 rebuilding programs.

The M-15K/L/M subclasses were rebuilt 1936, 1937, and 1939, using steel underframes from M-15 double-sheathed boxcars by replacing the wooden body with steel, wagontop bodies.
     M-15K, 1,240 cars rebuilt 1936-37 as single door wagontop cars 370000-371249 with an inside height of 10’0”.
     M-15L, 50 cars rebuilt 1937. Double door version of wagontop M-15 rebuild. 379000-370049 with inside height 10’0”. 
     M-15M, 180 cars rebuilt 1939.  These were extended height, double door wagontops in series 294000-294179 with an inside height of 10’4” and equipped with Evans auto loaders.
 
All of the M-15K and M-15L wagontop rebuilds had their fishbelly underframes replaced in the mid-1950s and were reclassified as M-15N, M-15NA, M-15NB, M-15P dependent on the combination of door width, capacity and which class they were rebuilt from.
     M-15N  400 cars (from M-15K) received new UFs in 1955 and renumbered 374000-374399, 40 ton capacity, 6 foot doors.
     M-15NA  376 cars (from M-15K) received new UFs in 1956 and renumbered 374500-374875, 40 ton capacity, 8 foot doors.
     M-15NB  47 cars (from M-15L) received new UFs in 1956 and renumbered 374900-374946, 40 ton capacity, 8 foot doors.
     M-15P  400 cars (from M-15K) received new UFs in 1955 and renumbered 375000-375399, 50 ton capacity, 6 foot doors.
     M-15PD  309 cars (from M-15NA) received higher capacity trucks (50 ton) and renumbered 376000-376351.
     M-15PE  42 cars (from M-15NB) received higher capacity trucks (50 ton) and renumbered 377000-377046.

As I used to say when giving presentations on this topic, these cars resembled George Washington's axe.  First the B&O retained the underframe and replaced the carbody, and later they retained the carbody and replaced the underframe.

After the 2nd rebuilding, they superficially resembled the M-63, which were the wagon-top boxcars built new, but those all had Duryea underframes while none of the M-15 classes ever did.

Although we have the very nice ExactRail M-53s, we do not have good plastic models of any of the M-15 classes. 
--
Chris Barkan
Champaign, IL


Re: Wanted: Chooch sugar beet loads - HO scale

Hudson Leighton
 

Use the anise seeds or whatever to make a master and then cast inedible loads.

This type of casting is about the easiest type of resin/plaster casting and is good way to
get your feet wet in casting.

-Hudson


Re: Wanted: Chooch sugar beet loads - HO scale

Jerry Michels
 

This may be off base, but what about mixing in a little red pepper in the anise seeds? Not enough to make a visual difference but enough to give rodents a hot mouth. Although the anise seeds look to be a good color for sugar beets, if you intend to paint them, some noasty hot sauce could be mixed with it. Jerry Michels


Re: Refrigerator Cars - Salt Water Drippings

Corey Fischer
 

Same deal with the West Shore in upstate NY. Significantly more corrosion to bridges on the eastbound track. 

On May 7, 2022, at 10:12 PM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:

According to my friend Chuck Yungkurth, the steel bridges on the ERIE eastbound track across the Southern Tier of New York had significant corrosion from the ice drippings from eastbound reefer loads.  So much so, that it affected the way trains were routed in the 1970s-1990s, IIRC.

I think that may answer your question.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Refrigerator Cars - Salt Water Drippings

Douglas Harding
 

Corrosion from salt melt was a significant problem for railroads. This was because all reefers could have salt added to the ice for lower temps. That was the purpose of ice. Meat required a lot of salt as shippers wished to ship meat at temps in the mid 30s. Many produce and dairy products were shipped with temps in the 40s, but some required temps in the 30s, and frozen times required temps in the 20s or lower, increasing the required salt amounts.

Meat reefers different from other reefers in one important area, the ice bunkers were sealed from the load area. And there was no fan to circulate the cold air. This prevented the meat from getting contaminated from water and salt melt. Meat never came in direct contact with ice, as in blowing in ice to top the load.

Many meat reefers and some other reefers had brine tanks (but not all) meaning the ice bunkers were sealed so no salt melt dripped out or entered the reefer interior. The bunker drains had plugs, which were only opened at proper facilities equipped to handle the salt melt. Often when opened the drains were plugged with ice and salt requiring the carmen to beat open the drains when the plug was removed.

Traditional ice bunker reefers had open drains that dripped water (and salt) on the ROW, the undercarriage, etc.as the ice melted. These bunkers also had screened openings into the reefer interior, allowing better air flow but also allowed water to enter the car interior. This is one reason reefer floors had ribs or slats, to allow ice melt water to flow and drain. It also allowed ice blown in on top of produce to melt, drip to the floor and drain via the bunker drains.


Doug Harding
Youtube: Douglas Harding Iowa Central Railroad


Re: Wanted: Chooch sugar beet loads - HO scale

Mark Vinski
 

Small grains of river sand look like that.

Mark Vinski


Re: Bill Welch document

 

Since I only have a few of these, I’d like to see all made available. 

Bill continues to be missed….

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On May 7, 2022, at 8:23 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



Dropbox is a good idea. I think you don't need an account if I create a special link
to share with everyone here, which lets them into the file set in my dropbox.

I've attached a list of Bill Welch files (I'm sure there are more) - You can see some
of them are quite large!

I'll get a round tuit... :-D

Tim O'Connor




On 5/7/2022 1:07 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io wrote:
Have the Admins set a size limit for uploaded files?  I see that the largest one so far is 16 MB.

I don't have Bill's article on plastic cars, but would note that his Feb 2008 piece on the FGEX consortium, which is 81 pages, is only a 11.9 MB file.

PDFs usually aren't that big.  I just took my largest, most photo-intensive PowerPoint clinic with a file size of 121 MB, and converted it to a PDF that is only 15.6 MB.  Many (most) email apps allow attachments up to 25 MB.

YMMV of course.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts bill welch handouts.png


Re: Refrigerator Cars - Salt Water Drippings

Todd Sullivan
 

According to my friend Chuck Yungkurth, the steel bridges on the ERIE eastbound track across the Southern Tier of New York had significant corrosion from the ice drippings from eastbound reefer loads.  So much so, that it affected the way trains were routed in the 1970s-1990s, IIRC.

I think that may answer your question.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Bill Welch document

Tim O'Connor
 


Dropbox is a good idea. I think you don't need an account if I create a special link
to share with everyone here, which lets them into the file set in my dropbox.

I've attached a list of Bill Welch files (I'm sure there are more) - You can see some
of them are quite large!

I'll get a round tuit... :-D

Tim O'Connor




On 5/7/2022 1:07 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io wrote:
Have the Admins set a size limit for uploaded files?  I see that the largest one so far is 16 MB.

I don't have Bill's article on plastic cars, but would note that his Feb 2008 piece on the FGEX consortium, which is 81 pages, is only a 11.9 MB file.

PDFs usually aren't that big.  I just took my largest, most photo-intensive PowerPoint clinic with a file size of 121 MB, and converted it to a PDF that is only 15.6 MB.  Many (most) email apps allow attachments up to 25 MB.

YMMV of course.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Refrigerator Cars - Salt Water Drippings

Bob Chaparro
 

Refrigerator Cars - Salt Water Drippings

This text is from the 1925 Car Builders' Cyclopedia Of American Practice.

Note that from 1923 onward, brine in ice tanks was not to be allowed to drip on to the track. This was to prevent corrosion damage to track, bridges and electrical circuits. Brine was to be drained at icing stations.

What is not clear is whether this also applied to ice bunkers, as opposed to ice tanks. Does anyone know the answer to this?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

++++

When salt is used with ice in a bunker, the method of disposing of the salt water drippings requires special attention. If brine falls on the truck parts, rails, etc., the resulting damage is great and heavy maintenance cost results. The subject is of such importance that the American Railway Association as early as 1898 adopted the following: Recommended Practice adopted, 1898; revised, 1910

1. All salt-water drippings should be retained in the ice tanks and drained off only at icing stations.

2. The total capacity of drain openings should not exceed the capacity of traps, and the capacity of both drains! and traps should be sufficient to release all drippings within the time limit of icing the train.

3. The mechanism adopted for handling drain valves; should be simple and positive, and so designed as to insure closing the valves before hatch plugs can be returned to their places.

4. Salt drippings should be conducted from ice tanks through the drain valves above described and thence to the outside of cars through regular traps and drain pipes.

The A. R. A. interchange rules also specify that after January 1, 1923, cars carrying products which require for their refrigeration the use of ice and salt, and which are equipped with brine tanks, shall not be accepted in interchange unless provided with a suitable device for retaining the brine while enroute between the icing stations.


Re: B&O m-15k & M-15n

Brian Carlson
 

True. I’m aware of that, but by my 56 era the m-15k were rebuilt again to the M-15n in 55 and 56. Based on the orer there were very few K’s left.

Brian J. Carlson

On May 7, 2022, at 5:34 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

The M-15k was the subject of a Chicagoland mini-kit, so there's quite a bit of information including drawings among those files. I know nothing about the M-15n.

Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Carlson via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2022 4:14 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O m-15k & M-15n

What was the difference between the two B&O wagon top rebuilds? Based on a review of freight car diagrams, it appears the underframe was rebuilt to a straight center sill using Z sections versus the fishbelly center sill of the earlier rebuild.

Were there any other changes? Specifically to the superstructure.

Brian J. Carlson


--
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY






--
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: B&O m-15k & M-15n

brianleppert@att.net
 

B&O #374065, class M-15n is on display at the Illinois Railway Museum,  Photos are on their website.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: B&O m-15k & M-15n

Nelson Moyer
 

The M-15k was the subject of a Chicagoland mini-kit, so there's quite a bit of information including drawings among those files. I know nothing about the M-15n.

Nelson Moyer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Carlson via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2022 4:14 PM
To: RealSTMFC@groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] B&O m-15k & M-15n

What was the difference between the two B&O wagon top rebuilds? Based on a review of freight car diagrams, it appears the underframe was rebuilt to a straight center sill using Z sections versus the fishbelly center sill of the earlier rebuild.

Were there any other changes? Specifically to the superstructure.

Brian J. Carlson


--
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


B&O m-15k & M-15n

Brian Carlson
 

What was the difference between the two B&O wagon top rebuilds? Based on a review of freight car diagrams, it appears the underframe was rebuilt to a straight center sill using Z sections versus the fishbelly center sill of the earlier rebuild.

Were there any other changes? Specifically to the superstructure.

Brian J. Carlson


--
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Westerfield NYC 1916 Modernized boxcar off the workbench

anthony wagner
 

Another two cents worth. Normally I use a single speed Dreml tool with a Dreml speed control to slow it down for drilling grab iron holes etc. In plastic or resin a very low speed is mandatory, even with #79 or #80 drills. I'm on my third Dreml since I've been using them since the 1970s. The single speed ones have plain bearings which eventually cause problems when they get too worn. I also use a Gyros 97-01818 swivel head pin vice for certain applications. I have had mine for literally decades. They are currently available from Amazon for $9.98. They allow very fine finger control for drilling by hand. A steady hand while drilling is essential. Otherwise, the bits will break.  Tony Wagner

On Saturday, May 7, 2022, 02:52:26 PM CDT, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:


I missed the Scotch reference. Affordable single malt is an oxymoron. I’m partial to Lagavulin 16 year old single malt, but only around holidays.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ken Adams
Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2022 1:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Westerfield NYC 1916 Modernized boxcar off the workbench

 

Thanks for all the comments about my grab iron hole drilling. My tools  and drilling setup are shown below.

My only explanation is that I might have gotten a bad batch of Gyros #78 drill bits.  I have never had such bad results as this before. I have been drilling grab iron holes since the 1980's. 
They last 4 were drilled with a #76 bit which did not break after 10/12 twists.  Note that I am using a Mascot twist drill with non rotating wood handle. Boelube (from Boeing development) was used on every new bit and when cleared. The holes and bits were cleared of plastic regularly as I drilled.  I have not had problems with Gyros bits before and found them to last often beyond one project.  I am now done with the 72 holes. The grab irons have been inserted and secured with Plasti-Zap Medium CA from behind. I will probably let primer and paint coats fill the gaps in the grab iron holes. 

 The next challenge is cutting the bolt heads off 72 Grandt Line 3/4 nut to glue above the grab irons.  Unfortunately my pipette glue applicator is clogged. Soaking in IPA now.

And I usually drink Irish whiskey not Scotch (unless I happen on an excellent single malt at an affordable price.)

My plan for the future is only build kits of more modern cars that have ladders not grab irons for reaching the car roof. 


--
Ken Adams
Omicron BA2.2xx may come and go but I still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Re: Wanted: Chooch sugar beet loads - HO scale

Peter Hall
 

Interesting!  They do look like they could be HO scale beets (this photo is enlarged.  How do they prepare the seeds - microwave?  How do they seal the seeds against insects or rodents?



Thanks
Pete

On May 7, 2022, at 2:52 PM, Bernd Schroeder <schroed2.bears@...> wrote:

hi all,

for beet modelling in HO, some of the Eurppem groups use red clover seeds.

Bernd

Adelsdorf, Germany



-- 
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android Mobiltelefon mit GMX Mail gesendet.
Am 07.05.22, 19:09 schrieb "Richard Townsend via groups.io" <richtownsend@...>:
The main problem with anise seeds, other than their attractiveness to pests, is that they are way oversized for HO. I’ve been looking for something else for a long time but haven’t come up with anything yet. If I do come up with something I intend to make some loads and then cast them to eliminate the pest problem. 


On May 7, 2022, at 9:55 AM, Peter Hall <petehall6369@...> wrote: 

Anise seeds are very aromatic.  I’ve had a jar of them “off-gassing” for years, and I can still smell them.  I believe they would have to be sealed some way - perhaps with liquid floor wax or several coats of Dullcoat.  I haven’t tried any method yet.

Thanks
Pete

On May 7, 2022, at 7:38 AM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

A friend used Anise seeds for a beet train, and after a few months the cars were infested with bugs. If you use Anise seeds, you better treat them to discourage bugs. Perhaps run them through an alcohol dehydration series, or treat them with something repellent or toxic to bugs.
 
Nelson Moyer
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz 
Sent: Saturday, May 7, 2022 5:49 AM 
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io 
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Wanted: Chooch sugar beet loads - HO scale
 
Pete, 
  I know one SP modeler who swears by Anise seeds for sugar beet loads ... Jim in the PNW



3161 - 3180 of 195612