Date   

Re: UP Pre 1944 Boxcar red & GN 1937 cars

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

HI Eric and List Members,


I think Eric brings a legitimate point to the discussion. But I feel that in the greater overview of color and how we perceive it, in the end it will be a matter of personal taste and preference rather than a matter of objective certainty or measurable correctness.


All this being said, the yellow-ochre-tan stain on the side of the UP boxcar is still there and fully visible - I love it!


Claus Schlund


On 11-May-22 09:57, Eric Hansmann wrote:

I love the Jack Delano color images at the Library of Congress site. They have inspired my weathering efforts on many freight cars.

But, when we look deeper into these images I think we need to make adjustments. The original photo exposure takes into account the sky and background. IMHO, this makes the freight cars underexposed.This is especially true of the broader yard scenes in the Delano images.

I just edited the original TIF file to focus on the freight cars nearest the UP box car. After cropping, I adjusted the exposure and levels to produce the attached image.

The more exposed version brings out the color for additional comparison. Note the Michigan Central box car at the far right seems to be a closer match with the UP car color. There weren't any color adjustments to the original file, only exposure and levels were adjusted.

Is it proper to fool around with these images? I think we need to do this when we are reviewing and discussing a small portion of the larger image. YMMV.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On 05/10/2022 10:49 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:


I’ve been a bit sick so whiling away down time, and wandered back into the Library of Congress Delano photos again. This time, I was a bit intrigued by a note on the Utah Rails sight that a photo showing Union Pacific freight car paint prior to 1944 might look like.  The answer (I think) is documented in a photo discussed on this list many times previously:https://www.loc.gov/item/2017878164/ which shows UP 471087 at the Illinois Central South Water St yard in Chicago, apparently taken April 1943.   With the large Tiff file, one can zoom in and see cars very well.  So for 1943 UP freight car colour, here’s some evidence:


What i think is useful here is the comparison with the GNR red, the IC brown, the very dark Rock Island brown, and the NYC/Michigan Central oxide brown colour.  Very cool.  I imagine there is a pan pastel shade for that yellow colour weathering on the far side panels?   

But I was also really taken by the GN car built 6 years earlier.  The painted roof seem caps, bare galvenized roof contrasting with rust blooming through the paint on the top end panel, dust collected on each rib on the car ends, the black paint on the ends faded to a grimy gray-brown, the wood sheathing worn and streaked and the reporting marks and See America logo faded and worn.    I wonder how many Resin Car Works models of this car show this much weathering . . . 


Mine is on the to do pile, and i think this will be my inspiration.

Rob



Re: UP Pre 1944 Boxcar red & GN 1937 cars

Eric Hansmann
 

I love the Jack Delano color images at the Library of Congress site. They have inspired my weathering efforts on many freight cars.

But, when we look deeper into these images I think we need to make adjustments. The original photo exposure takes into account the sky and background. IMHO, this makes the freight cars underexposed.This is especially true of the broader yard scenes in the Delano images.

I just edited the original TIF file to focus on the freight cars nearest the UP box car. After cropping, I adjusted the exposure and levels to produce the attached image.

The more exposed version brings out the color for additional comparison. Note the Michigan Central box car at the far right seems to be a closer match with the UP car color. There weren't any color adjustments to the original file, only exposure and levels were adjusted.

Is it proper to fool around with these images? I think we need to do this when we are reviewing and discussing a small portion of the larger image. YMMV.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On 05/10/2022 10:49 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:


I’ve been a bit sick so whiling away down time, and wandered back into the Library of Congress Delano photos again. This time, I was a bit intrigued by a note on the Utah Rails sight that a photo showing Union Pacific freight car paint prior to 1944 might look like.  The answer (I think) is documented in a photo discussed on this list many times previously:https://www.loc.gov/item/2017878164/ which shows UP 471087 at the Illinois Central South Water St yard in Chicago, apparently taken April 1943.   With the large Tiff file, one can zoom in and see cars very well.  So for 1943 UP freight car colour, here’s some evidence:


What i think is useful here is the comparison with the GNR red, the IC brown, the very dark Rock Island brown, and the NYC/Michigan Central oxide brown colour.  Very cool.  I imagine there is a pan pastel shade for that yellow colour weathering on the far side panels?   

But I was also really taken by the GN car built 6 years earlier.  The painted roof seem caps, bare galvenized roof contrasting with rust blooming through the paint on the top end panel, dust collected on each rib on the car ends, the black paint on the ends faded to a grimy gray-brown, the wood sheathing worn and streaked and the reporting marks and See America logo faded and worn.    I wonder how many Resin Car Works models of this car show this much weathering . . . 


Mine is on the to do pile, and i think this will be my inspiration.

Rob



Re: Railroad salvage: Mather Hygrade reefer

Paul Doggett
 


Charlie 

More great work they look really good.

Paul Doggett.     England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 

On 11 May 2022, at 02:09, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:



Growing up in Kansas City I remember my folks hitting the local railroad salvage store to see what had survived the latest derailment.  Here’s my own railroad salvage; a Red Caboose Mather reefer that’s taken 10-12 years of ops sessions abuse.  It was missing the vertical brake staff, several of the steps were missing (one survived) but it was the only Mather reefer on the layout and the leasee name was accurate.  Looking at Ted’s refrigerator car book I added Andrews trucks and airbrushed the carbody with a thinned down coat of Dullcote with a few drops of black and brown added.  After the Dullcote dried I scraped off a few boards to show those being replaced and darkened a couple others for grain variations.  Ted’s book showed a Mather car with some of the paint peaking off the side of the panels so I tried to replicate that with a light gray. 


77749B5F-03A7-4C76-A4EF-DD781AEC0E0B.jpeg3DA0DAD9-22EB-469D-865F-E7EF063D38F2.jpegA5D8B79E-88CB-491F-84A7-28537287E3AE.jpegC0ED08A0-4F02-41F9-AEA8-73AD21ADFAD4.jpeg
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Railroad salvage: Mather Hygrade reefer

Robert kirkham
 

that’s working equipment!

Looks like a fun project.

Rob

On May 10, 2022, at 6:09 PM, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:

Growing up in Kansas City I remember my folks hitting the local railroad salvage store to see what had survived the latest derailment.  Here’s my own railroad salvage; a Red Caboose Mather reefer that’s taken 10-12 years of ops sessions abuse.  It was missing the vertical brake staff, several of the steps were missing (one survived) but it was the only Mather reefer on the layout and the leasee name was accurate.  Looking at Ted’s refrigerator car book I added Andrews trucks and airbrushed the carbody with a thinned down coat of Dullcote with a few drops of black and brown added.  After the Dullcote dried I scraped off a few boards to show those being replaced and darkened a couple others for grain variations.  Ted’s book showed a Mather car with some of the paint peaking off the side of the panels so I tried to replicate that with a light gray. 


<77749B5F-03A7-4C76-A4EF-DD781AEC0E0B.jpeg><3DA0DAD9-22EB-469D-865F-E7EF063D38F2.jpeg><A5D8B79E-88CB-491F-84A7-28537287E3AE.jpeg><C0ED08A0-4F02-41F9-AEA8-73AD21ADFAD4.jpeg>
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.



UP Pre 1944 Boxcar red & GN 1937 cars

Robert kirkham
 

I’ve been a bit sick so whiling away down time, and wandered back into the Library of Congress Delano photos again. This time, I was a bit intrigued by a note on the Utah Rails sight that a photo showing Union Pacific freight car paint prior to 1944 might look like.  The answer (I think) is documented in a photo discussed on this list many times previously:https://www.loc.gov/item/2017878164/ which shows UP 471087 at the Illinois Central South Water St yard in Chicago, apparently taken April 1943.   With the large Tiff file, one can zoom in and see cars very well.  So for 1943 UP freight car colour, here’s some evidence:

What i think is useful here is the comparison with the GNR red, the IC brown, the very dark Rock Island brown, and the NYC/Michigan Central oxide brown colour.  Very cool.  I imagine there is a pan pastel shade for that yellow colour weathering on the far side panels?   

But I was also really taken by the GN car built 6 years earlier.  The painted roof seem caps, bare galvenized roof contrasting with rust blooming through the paint on the top end panel, dust collected on each rib on the car ends, the black paint on the ends faded to a grimy gray-brown, the wood sheathing worn and streaked and the reporting marks and See America logo faded and worn.    I wonder how many Resin Car Works models of this car show this much weathering . . . 

Mine is on the to do pile, and i think this will be my inspiration.

Rob


Re: Railroad salvage: Mather Hygrade reefer

 

Beauty, Charlie. You are turning into a PROPST machine, the way you are knocking them out.

Rich Christie

On Tuesday, May 10, 2022, 08:09:43 PM CDT, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:


Growing up in Kansas City I remember my folks hitting the local railroad salvage store to see what had survived the latest derailment.  Here’s my own railroad salvage; a Red Caboose Mather reefer that’s taken 10-12 years of ops sessions abuse.  It was missing the vertical brake staff, several of the steps were missing (one survived) but it was the only Mather reefer on the layout and the leasee name was accurate.  Looking at Ted’s refrigerator car book I added Andrews trucks and airbrushed the carbody with a thinned down coat of Dullcote with a few drops of black and brown added.  After the Dullcote dried I scraped off a few boards to show those being replaced and darkened a couple others for grain variations.  Ted’s book showed a Mather car with some of the paint peaking off the side of the panels so I tried to replicate that with a light gray. 



--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Railroad salvage: Mather Hygrade reefer

Nelson Moyer
 

Charlie, you consistently set the bar over the top when it comes to board weathering. The roof is also a really nice touch.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charlie Duckworth
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2022 8:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Railroad salvage: Mather Hygrade reefer

 

Growing up in Kansas City I remember my folks hitting the local railroad salvage store to see what had survived the latest derailment.  Here’s my own railroad salvage; a Red Caboose Mather reefer that’s taken 10-12 years of ops sessions abuse.  It was missing the vertical brake staff, several of the steps were missing (one survived) but it was the only Mather reefer on the layout and the leasee name was accurate.  Looking at Ted’s refrigerator car book I added Andrews trucks and airbrushed the carbody with a thinned down coat of Dullcote with a few drops of black and brown added.  After the Dullcote dried I scraped off a few boards to show those being replaced and darkened a couple others for grain variations.  Ted’s book showed a Mather car with some of the paint peaking off the side of the panels so I tried to replicate that with a light gray. 



--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Railroad salvage: Mather Hygrade reefer

Charlie Duckworth
 

Growing up in Kansas City I remember my folks hitting the local railroad salvage store to see what had survived the latest derailment.  Here’s my own railroad salvage; a Red Caboose Mather reefer that’s taken 10-12 years of ops sessions abuse.  It was missing the vertical brake staff, several of the steps were missing (one survived) but it was the only Mather reefer on the layout and the leasee name was accurate.  Looking at Ted’s refrigerator car book I added Andrews trucks and airbrushed the carbody with a thinned down coat of Dullcote with a few drops of black and brown added.  After the Dullcote dried I scraped off a few boards to show those being replaced and darkened a couple others for grain variations.  Ted’s book showed a Mather car with some of the paint peaking off the side of the panels so I tried to replicate that with a light gray. 



--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: 8000 gal. ICC 103-D-W tank car question

vapeurchapelon
 

Many thanks to all repliers! Tim, of course I am aware of the very nice OMI 4000gal car - they called it "Nice & Timy", and I would own one since a long time when it wasn't a 1960s car.
 
Steve, unfortunately this is what I feared. Replacing running boards and platform wouldn't be impossible, but definitely no joy...
 
Thanks again to all.
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 10. Mai 2022 um 20:16 Uhr
Von: "Steve and Barb Hile" <shile@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] 8000 gal. ICC 103-D-W tank car question

It seems like the dome platform and running boards are supposed to represent an open grid with the raised rectangles, like Apex or Blaw Knox, not a solid piece.  Steel running boards and platforms need a way for water to drain and not puddle.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2022 9:52 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] 8000 gal. ICC 103-D-W tank car question

 

Hello friends,

as some of you know I love brass models even though todays plastic and resin models are superior in detail. It's kind of nostalgic gush.
I found a very rare model:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275306405690?hash=item40198a5f3a:g:A3MAAOSwLVNielG0

Aside of its incompleteness of some detail and crudeness of some other detail - is it otherwise a proportionally accurate representation of the prototype?
I easily could add train line, brake hoses, coupler lift bars, piping between valve, reservoir and cylinder, and I would replace the steps. No problem.
But should the running boards and platform be perforated? THAT would be too much and the reason to let the model go.

Many thanks

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1954

 


Re: 8000 gal. ICC 103-D-W tank car question

Steve and Barb Hile
 

It seems like the dome platform and running boards are supposed to represent an open grid with the raised rectangles, like Apex or Blaw Knox, not a solid piece.  Steel running boards and platforms need a way for water to drain and not puddle.

 

My 2 cents.

 

Steve Hile

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of vapeurchapelon
Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2022 9:52 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] 8000 gal. ICC 103-D-W tank car question

 

Hello friends,

as some of you know I love brass models even though todays plastic and resin models are superior in detail. It's kind of nostalgic gush.
I found a very rare model:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275306405690?hash=item40198a5f3a:g:A3MAAOSwLVNielG0

Aside of its incompleteness of some detail and crudeness of some other detail - is it otherwise a proportionally accurate representation of the prototype?
I easily could add train line, brake hoses, coupler lift bars, piping between valve, reservoir and cylinder, and I would replace the steps. No problem.
But should the running boards and platform be perforated? THAT would be too much and the reason to let the model go.

Many thanks

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1954


Re: Grain Transportation In the Northwest

Chuck Soule
 

After the merger and construction of the large concrete grain elevators at the location of the original Tacoma Wharf, Half Moon Yard acted as a major location for grain cars.  I don't know how much it was used for grain in NP days.  It probably was used to stage grain cars to the Sperry Mill and its predecessors, and maybe also cars for the Tacoma Smelter and sawmills along Ruston Way.  I know in the late 60s it had a lot of white-lined cars waiting to make their last trip up the hill to the South Tacoma Shops.  I also seem to recall from my very brief tenure as a clerk in the Tacoma Yard that most of the traffic in 1969 was being switched and staged out of the Head of Bay yard, and Half Moon Yard was mostly used for storage of empties.

Regarding Portland, the Portland Board of Trades acted as an exchange for wheat trading in the general pre-Depression era.  I don't know about its subsequent history, nor do I know any specifics about grain car staging in the general Portland area.

Chuck Soule


Re: 8000 gal. ICC 103-D-W tank car question

Tim O'Connor
 


Here's another 4,000 gallon car, built by GATC.


On 5/10/2022 11:40 AM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io wrote:

Hi Johannes,

I looked at the box label which says it is a "ICC 103 D W" tank car.  It looks more like an ICC 103BW, which would likely be a rubber-lined uninsulated car used for shipping acids and other corrosives.  The 8000 gallon capacity and double domes make it an especially appealing model.  It looks pretty accurate, although I don't have any photos of a suitable prototype.  It looks to be a GAT design, but other experts may chime in on that.

Todd Sullivan

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: 8000 gal. ICC 103-D-W tank car question

Tim O'Connor
 

Johannes

In most respects the model resembles an "upsized" version of a 4,000 gallon prototype that was imported
in brass by Overland Models (OMI #3123) in the late 1980's.

Two dome cars over 6,000 gallons in size are incredibly rare. Here's a photo of GATX 25945 of unknown
construction date. It has 8,028 gallons capacity.

Tim O'Connor


On 5/10/2022 10:51 AM, vapeurchapelon wrote:

Hello friends,

as some of you know I love brass models even though todays plastic and resin models are superior in detail. It's kind of nostalgic gush.
I found a very rare model:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275306405690?hash=item40198a5f3a:g:A3MAAOSwLVNielG0

Aside of its incompleteness of some detail and crudeness of some other detail - is it otherwise a proportionally accurate representation of the prototype?
I easily could add train line, brake hoses, coupler lift bars, piping between valve, reservoir and cylinder, and I would replace the steps. No problem.
But should the running boards and platform be perforated? THAT would be too much and the reason to let the model go.

Many thanks

Johannes

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: 8000 gal. ICC 103-D-W tank car question

Todd Sullivan
 

Hi Johannes,

I looked at the box label which says it is a "ICC 103 D W" tank car.  It looks more like an ICC 103BW, which would likely be a rubber-lined uninsulated car used for shipping acids and other corrosives.  The 8000 gallon capacity and double domes make it an especially appealing model.  It looks pretty accurate, although I don't have any photos of a suitable prototype.  It looks to be a GAT design, but other experts may chime in on that.

Todd Sullivan


8000 gal. ICC 103-D-W tank car question

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello friends,

as some of you know I love brass models even though todays plastic and resin models are superior in detail. It's kind of nostalgic gush.
I found a very rare model:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275306405690?hash=item40198a5f3a:g:A3MAAOSwLVNielG0

Aside of its incompleteness of some detail and crudeness of some other detail - is it otherwise a proportionally accurate representation of the prototype?
I easily could add train line, brake hoses, coupler lift bars, piping between valve, reservoir and cylinder, and I would replace the steps. No problem.
But should the running boards and platform be perforated? THAT would be too much and the reason to let the model go.

Many thanks

Johannes
Modeling the early post-war years up to about 1954


Hopper mini-kits

Eric Hansmann
 

Resin Car Works has new Mini-Kits to upgrade HO scale hopper models for Frisco, NC&StL, and NYC prototypes. Details are in the latest RCW blog post. 
http://blog.resincarworks.com/new-hopper-mini-kits/

Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


Re: Question (off topic))

Danny Inmon
 

modelintermodal@groups.io


Grain Transportation In the Northwest

Bob Chaparro
 

Grain Transportation In the Northwest

Courtesy of Chris Frissell, here is a 1964 USDA document for those of you with an interest in grain transportation by rail and other means.

The coverage reaches back well before 1964.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA 


Re: Westerfield NYC 1916 Modernized boxcar off the workbench

Curt Fortenberry
 


I've bought these drills off of ebay.  They say used but I've never had a dull one, and the thick shank eliminates which holder I use.  I always have my wax block nearby to lubricate.  I've only ever broken one in resin kits, never had one break using it on plastic.  All hand held chucks.

Curt Fortenberry

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165010445835


Re: Question (off topic))

Hudson Leighton
 

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