Date   

Livestock car?

Robert kirkham
 

No reporting marks evident, but an interesting car.  https://www.loc.gov/item/2017878181/   Compared to the nearer cars a 45’ or 50’ car?

Yes, another Delano photo.   


Rob


Re: Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

Tim O'Connor
 


Thanks for that! I knew I bought that Westerfield GN kit all those years ago for a good reason, as
I was modeling up to 1960 then. But now in 1973 I expect they're gone - at the 50 year limit if for
no other reason.



On 5/14/2022 5:06 PM, Robert Heninger wrote:
Tim,

There's a Dick Kuelbs photo of GN 25947 on the MKT in Dallas, TX in 1961 on page 17 of Great Northern Equipment Color Pictorial, Book One - Box Cars and Stock Cars, by Scott R. Thompson. Granted, this is a USRA clone built 1923, but it is in revenue service, and is not labeled for hide service.

There's a J.W. Mathews photo of GN 25063 (a clone) at Wenatchee, WA in March of 1961, from Richard Hendrickson's collection published on page 138 of the Second Edition of Lines East, by Patrick C. Dorin. It is in revenue service, not labeled for hide service.

I have a photo in my collection of  GN 24667, which is one of the USRA cars, with a 4-62 reweigh date, taken 1962 in Baltimore, MD, by Joe Collias. This car too is in revenue service, and is not stenciled for hide service.

I do have a Joe Collias photo of GN 25183, one of the clones, taken in 1963 in Watertown, SD, labeled for hide service. 

The cars are all in the postwar overall mineral red scheme, with the "Great Northern Railway" herald.

One caveat: GN did replace the grab iron "ladders" on the cars with actual ladders in a post-WWII reconditioning of the cars, but they kept their wood running boards and Murphy XLA roofs.

The GN did use these two series as stock for 1950s rebuilding programs that resulted in stock cars, and many were converted to MOW bunk cars, etc. in the 1950s, but my July 1960 ORER lists 264 of the USRA cars and 367 of the USRA clones in revenue service.

These are the latest surviving revenue service wood sheathed USRA cars I am aware of.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND 

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Aerial Photo: U.S. Navy Brooklyn Yard (1937)

Clarence Zink
 

Not April 1st???  Since getting retired, time has just s l o o o o o w  w   w   e  d way down.

Ha!


Re: Delano photos and filters?

Clarence Zink
 

It is obvious it is two different photos overlaid.  The yard tracks on the left do not align with the tracks on the right.  A common "end of roll" snafu.  Two pictures overlaid because he either threaded on new film a little bit long, and the frame didn't advance properly, or the film ran short on the very last frame, and again, two shots were overlaid. 

It used to happen a lot if you tried to "stretch" a 20 frame roll of 35mm film (slide or print) to more than 21 photos.  (Or a 36 frame film to 38 or more frames.)  You had to be very careful how the film was originally threaded on the takeup roller of the camera.

And, it could also be a sloppy bit of digitizing.

CRZ


Re: Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

Robert Heninger
 

Tim,

There's a Dick Kuelbs photo of GN 25947 on the MKT in Dallas, TX in 1961 on page 17 of Great Northern Equipment Color Pictorial, Book One - Box Cars and Stock Cars, by Scott R. Thompson. Granted, this is a USRA clone built 1923, but it is in revenue service, and is not labeled for hide service.

There's a J.W. Mathews photo of GN 25063 (a clone) at Wenatchee, WA in March of 1961, from Richard Hendrickson's collection published on page 138 of the Second Edition of Lines East, by Patrick C. Dorin. It is in revenue service, not labeled for hide service.

I have a photo in my collection of  GN 24667, which is one of the USRA cars, with a 4-62 reweigh date, taken 1962 in Baltimore, MD, by Joe Collias. This car too is in revenue service, and is not stenciled for hide service.

I do have a Joe Collias photo of GN 25183, one of the clones, taken in 1963 in Watertown, SD, labeled for hide service. 

The cars are all in the postwar overall mineral red scheme, with the "Great Northern Railway" herald.

One caveat: GN did replace the grab iron "ladders" on the cars with actual ladders in a post-WWII reconditioning of the cars, but they kept their wood running boards and Murphy XLA roofs.

The GN did use these two series as stock for 1950s rebuilding programs that resulted in stock cars, and many were converted to MOW bunk cars, etc. in the 1950s, but my July 1960 ORER lists 264 of the USRA cars and 367 of the USRA clones in revenue service.

These are the latest surviving revenue service wood sheathed USRA cars I am aware of.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND 


Re: Repack interval

Guy Wilber
 

Greg asked:

"Was there a regulated interval for repacking plain journals in the early 1950s?  If not, what was a typical interval, please?  I am hoping to be able to use repack dates to get realistic estimates of the dates of some tank car photos."

1953 Rule 66, (a) Journal boxes on empty cars, not repacked within 15 months, as indicated by the stenciling on the car, regardless of the responsibility of the handling company for the change of wheels or other repairs, must be repacked.  After the expiration of fourteen months, if empty or loaded car is is on repair track for other work, journal boxes must be repacked regardless of whether or not car requires other repairs.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada
_._,_._,_


Re: Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

Tim O'Connor
 

Bob

Do you know of published photos of them in the 1960's? I've seen lots of photos of the 1930's AAR
double sheathed cars well into the 1970's, but not the 1920's cars.

On 5/14/2022 2:06 PM, Robert Heninger wrote:
Tim,

None of the GN’s USRA or clone DS cars were ever rebuilt as steel cars, and remained in revenue service into the 1960s. I have photos of them in MOW service in the BN era, Murphy XLA roof intact.

Regards,
Bob Heninger


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

Robert Heninger
 

Tim,

None of the GN’s USRA or clone DS cars were ever rebuilt as steel cars, and remained in revenue service into the 1960s. I have photos of them in MOW service in the BN era, Murphy XLA roof intact.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND


Re: Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

Eric Lombard
 

Good Morning, Jim

Insights about long-lived USRA wood boxcars in an original hardware appearance would be welcome.

Attached is an excel export from my box car database that contains data on 8838 series of box cars (and counting). 35 series were found that might be a beginning seed related to your appeal for information.

This result must be viewed with missing data in mind. Resources available may or may not have contained information on the application of new roofs, doors, and hand brake wheels and brake steps. Some of the 35 series may include information of this sort but each needs to be reviewed in detail which I have not done. In addition, several series. not included here, where ORER counts have not yet been determined past the '50s may produce additional cars for the '60s. This can become a happy small project for me if the possibility of additional series are valuable to you. Let me know off line. The database can also produce for each series the bibliography used as well as citations for published photographs

Double click on any cell to see all data in the cell. Export from the database to excel sometimes introduces errors in formatting and data. A review of this export indicates formatting errors are common in the "Service" field. These errors do not prohibit understanding but require a bit of contemplation at times. A workaround is to copy a service field and paste it into a text file. 

Hope this is useful to you.

Eric Lombard
Homewood, IL


On Thu, May 12, 2022 at 10:58 PM Jim Mischke <jmischke@...> wrote:


Regarding the past Rapido USRA double sheath boxcar and upcoming USRA single sheath boxcar release ..... and I am having trouble finding any road names for such boxcars that lasted up to and past 1960 in their original hardware appearance in general interchange.   AB brakes replaced K-brakes of course.   Plenty were rebuilt with aftermarket sides, not yet Rapido offerings.

Some ORER entries within and past this group's 1920-60 base timeline show several hardy CNJ USRA single-sheath boxcars still around, yet they may have been in lead-zinc service between the two Palmerton, NJ. smelters, a very short on-line move.

Some TH&B double-sheath boxcars were still around in yellow paint, yet they may have been operating on-line LCL service.

B&O's M-24 USRA single sheath boxcars were converted en masse to company service about 1953 or so.  They lasted a long time yet were not in revenue service anymore.   The last M-24a/b boxcars equippped with hoppers for cement loading lost their jobs about 1958.

Insights about long-lived USRA wood boxcars in an original hardware appearance would be welcome.











Re: Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

Gavin
 

If I recall correctly, the Canadian Pacific clones survived in original form until the 80s in OCS service, being used for grain prior to that. But as that's mainly online service in Canada, I don't think that would help you all that much.


Re: Repack interval

Dave Parker
 

The question of repack (not reweigh) interval has been addressed here on at least two occasions -- see threads beginning with #67797 and #106475.  These include weigh-ins from both Bob Karig and Guy Wilber.  The short answer is that that, starting in 1929, the interval seemingly went from 12 to 15 to 14 to 18 months.

I must disagree, however, that there was no prescribed interval prior to 1929.  This is from the 1920 MCB Code of Rules, rule 66:


A bit later, the rule states that if the car is on an RIP track, and it has been >9 months since the last repack, that a repack should be done at that time.

Last, the 12-month interval seems to have had its roots in an MCB Recommended Practice (a different beast than the CoRs), but I have never bothered to track down when that came into existence.

Hope this helps.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Repack interval

Nelson Moyer
 

Tony’s Modeling the SP blog has entries on reweigh requirements for different car classes and eras.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2022 9:55 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Repack interval

 


Jack, reweighing is not the same thing as lubrication of the bearings. Mandatory reweigh intervals were measured in years
but the bearings required much more frequent maintenance. I don't know if this was an AAR thing, or whether the ICC or
other government agency required it. Guy Wilber would know! :-)

Tim O'Connor


On 5/14/2022 10:47 AM, Jack Burgess wrote:

Correct...

 

I have the attached list of dates, etc. taped just about my workbench. Note that I model 1939 so some of them might not be correct for much later modeling dates.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2022 5:15 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Repack interval

 

From what I recall in discussions here, this was an annual interval unless it was needed beforehand. The repack stencil for date and location would be reapplied after the work was completed. 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


On May 13, 2022, at 5:50 PM, greg kennelly <greg_kennelly@...> wrote:

Was there a regulated interval for repacking plain journals in the early 1950s?  If not, what was a typical interval, please?  I am hoping to be able to use repack dates to get realistic estimates of the dates of some tank car photos.
Thanks,
Greg Kennelly

Attachments:

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Repack interval

Tim O'Connor
 


Jack, reweighing is not the same thing as lubrication of the bearings. Mandatory reweigh intervals were measured in years
but the bearings required much more frequent maintenance. I don't know if this was an AAR thing, or whether the ICC or
other government agency required it. Guy Wilber would know! :-)

Tim O'Connor


On 5/14/2022 10:47 AM, Jack Burgess wrote:

Correct...

 

I have the attached list of dates, etc. taped just about my workbench. Note that I model 1939 so some of them might not be correct for much later modeling dates.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2022 5:15 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Repack interval

 

From what I recall in discussions here, this was an annual interval unless it was needed beforehand. The repack stencil for date and location would be reapplied after the work was completed. 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


On May 13, 2022, at 5:50 PM, greg kennelly <greg_kennelly@...> wrote:

Was there a regulated interval for repacking plain journals in the early 1950s?  If not, what was a typical interval, please?  I am hoping to be able to use repack dates to get realistic estimates of the dates of some tank car photos.
Thanks,
Greg Kennelly

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

Tim O'Connor
 


I love the stencil on this one in 1972 - It's an X26F rebuild of course, but it's age hasn't changed. :-)


On 5/14/2022 10:13 AM, Brian Carlson via groups.io wrote:
Based on ORER data 3 Pennsy X26 made 1963 in revenue series. However, I’d take that with a grain of salt. They probably weren’t actually in service, just stored not yet white-lined. 

Face it, unmodified USRA cars in the 60’s are unlikely. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2022, at 10:04 AM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



I don't know of any USRA double sheathed cars that survived un-rebuilt in the 1960's. There
were still a few all-steel rebuilds but that's a whole other subject.

The only single sheathed USRA cars I know survived more or less intact into the 1960's were
the D&H cement cars which received hatches and hopper bottoms. (Tichy kit)

Tim O'Connor

On 5/14/2022 3:37 AM, Jim Mischke wrote:

Eric,

I find that the RPCycs cut off at 1960.   By publisher and author expressed intent.    Like a certain freight car group.

There is no information about freight car lives beyond 1960 in images or narrative.  Not even a hint.

If a researcher seeks 1960's information on old freight cars, one must build on an RPCyc article with additoinal research.

Certainly Rapido used all available resources in their product research.   I would surmise that we might see more USRA-derived boxcars from Rapido.   As prolific as they are, they do not mind some tooling commonalities.    I have no inside information on this.

Jim


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Repack interval

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Correct...

 

I have the attached list of dates, etc. taped just about my workbench. Note that I model 1939 so some of them might not be correct for much later modeling dates.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Saturday, May 14, 2022 5:15 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Repack interval

 

From what I recall in discussions here, this was an annual interval unless it was needed beforehand. The repack stencil for date and location would be reapplied after the work was completed. 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


On May 13, 2022, at 5:50 PM, greg kennelly <greg_kennelly@...> wrote:

Was there a regulated interval for repacking plain journals in the early 1950s?  If not, what was a typical interval, please?  I am hoping to be able to use repack dates to get realistic estimates of the dates of some tank car photos.
Thanks,
Greg Kennelly


Re: Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

Brian Carlson
 

Based on ORER data 3 Pennsy X26 made 1963 in revenue series. However, I’d take that with a grain of salt. They probably weren’t actually in service, just stored not yet white-lined. 

Face it, unmodified USRA cars in the 60’s are unlikely. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 14, 2022, at 10:04 AM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:



I don't know of any USRA double sheathed cars that survived un-rebuilt in the 1960's. There
were still a few all-steel rebuilds but that's a whole other subject.

The only single sheathed USRA cars I know survived more or less intact into the 1960's were
the D&H cement cars which received hatches and hopper bottoms. (Tichy kit)

Tim O'Connor

On 5/14/2022 3:37 AM, Jim Mischke wrote:

Eric,

I find that the RPCycs cut off at 1960.   By publisher and author expressed intent.    Like a certain freight car group.

There is no information about freight car lives beyond 1960 in images or narrative.  Not even a hint.

If a researcher seeks 1960's information on old freight cars, one must build on an RPCyc article with additoinal research.

Certainly Rapido used all available resources in their product research.   I would surmise that we might see more USRA-derived boxcars from Rapido.   As prolific as they are, they do not mind some tooling commonalities.    I have no inside information on this.

Jim

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

--
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Repack interval

Tim O'Connor
 


And in general the work was done wherever the car happened to be at the time :-)

Case in point - this New Haven box car lubed by the Great Northern.

Tim O'Connor

On 5/14/2022 8:14 AM, Eric Hansmann wrote:
From what I recall in discussions here, this was an annual interval unless it was needed beforehand. The repack stencil for date and location would be reapplied after the work was completed. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On May 13, 2022, at 5:50 PM, greg kennelly <greg_kennelly@...> wrote:

Was there a regulated interval for repacking plain journals in the early 1950s?  If not, what was a typical interval, please?  I am hoping to be able to use repack dates to get realistic estimates of the dates of some tank car photos.
Thanks,
Greg Kennelly



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

Tim O'Connor
 


I don't know of any USRA double sheathed cars that survived un-rebuilt in the 1960's. There
were still a few all-steel rebuilds but that's a whole other subject.

The only single sheathed USRA cars I know survived more or less intact into the 1960's were
the D&H cement cars which received hatches and hopper bottoms. (Tichy kit)

Tim O'Connor

On 5/14/2022 3:37 AM, Jim Mischke wrote:

Eric,

I find that the RPCycs cut off at 1960.   By publisher and author expressed intent.    Like a certain freight car group.

There is no information about freight car lives beyond 1960 in images or narrative.  Not even a hint.

If a researcher seeks 1960's information on old freight cars, one must build on an RPCyc article with additoinal research.

Certainly Rapido used all available resources in their product research.   I would surmise that we might see more USRA-derived boxcars from Rapido.   As prolific as they are, they do not mind some tooling commonalities.    I have no inside information on this.

Jim

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: St Louis Refrigerator Car Co

Douglas Harding
 

Charlie years ago I used the 36' MDC reefer and I think Clover House dry transfers https://cloverhouse.com/Cart/product_info.php?products_id=10176 
Not a hi detailed model, but an op session good enough.

Doug Harding
Youtube: Douglas Harding Iowa Central Railroad


On Sat, May 14, 2022 at 6:23 AM Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:

Thanks for all the replies and images.  Lester Brewer upgraded a pre painted Accurail reefer that was done for a NMRA convention as one of his blogs.  Am thinking that’s a logical choice for a decal set.  SLRX also had bunkerless 36’ (or 34’?) reefers.  Is there a close model that could be converted to one of these cars as well?   

--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: GN 66203 - flatcar underframe

Douglas Harding
 

I believe Clover House offers twisted wire or cable.  Cloverhouse.com   There have been several other companies as well, look at ads in the Narrow Gauge Gazette

Check Hobby Lobby for bead stringing wire, it is very fine. Or check the sewing department for heavier thread, carpet thread for example.

Or find some 32-gauge stranded wire and strip the insulation. IE left overs from decoder installs would work.

Doug Harding
Youtube: Douglas Harding Iowa Central Railroad


On Sat, May 14, 2022 at 12:27 AM WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:
Is there a source for the twist ties in HO,  I seem.to remember a supplier who had this item in their line along with a treasure trove of similar detail items. Regretfully the name escapes me.

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...>
Date: 4/29/22 12:21 PM (GMT-10:00)
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] GN 66203 - flatcar underframe

Twisted wire was a common tie down. It did not have to be saved or returned, factories had lots of it around, and no special tools were needed.

Doug Harding
Youtube: Douglas Harding Iowa Central Railroad


On Fri, Apr 29, 2022 at 4:48 PM Ted Larson via groups.io <mhrreast=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
And notice how they are tied down. 




--
Ted Larson
Trainweb.org/MHRR   ---   GN in 1965   ---   NASG.org 

3061 - 3080 of 195620