Date   

Re: Roof ribs

Kenneth Montero
 

Walthers once made cast-metal ribs for boxcars:.

No. 946-3001 were sheet metal pressed to create a rib.

No. 946-933 was a white metal casting (with running board saddles cast into the rib).

By today's standards, both lack detail, but may be a guide for scratchbuilding generic roof ribs from strips of styrene plastic. They may show up on Ebay or at a train shew, as they have long been out of production.

I am not aware of anyone currently manufacturing roof ribs separate from a roof casting.

Ken Montero

ByOn 05/16/2022 8:13 AM Walter Cox via groups.io <waltgcox@...> wrote:


I am working on a six covered hopper car build and will require ribs for all 6 roofs. Is there a source for decent ribs or am I looking at scratch building them. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. The cars involved are the CNR semi clones of the AFC NYC cars. (Yeah, the old E & B Valley kits but they are the only game in town  and I have already scaled down the side ribs.)
Walt

In a message dated 5/16/2022 2:19:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, repairman87@... writes:

I have the General Arrangement drawings from AC&F of this car so it was definitely but by them.

I ordered one of these kits off of Ebay.  I will compare it to the drawings.  I looked at the photos of the Ebay kit and noticed the drawings indicate a miner lever hand brake not an Ajax.  Also the roof should have ribs where the seams meet.  Both of these should be easy fixes.  The underframe isn't even close to the General Arrangement drawings.  It has different cross members and the brake rigging is different.  The GA drawings call for leverage cams and other oddities for the time period.  Again certainly over comeable 

All that said I am excited to get the model.  It will build into a unique model.  Plus it's always a good day when new resin kits come out.

Scott McDonald 


Photo: Car Ferry At Brooke Avenue Yard

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Car Ferry At Brooke Avenue Yard

Photo and information from the U.S. Military Railroad blog:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cjArUMBygZA/WOZOBjHJ-XI/AAAAAAAAKRY/jZ_-zlQZH90dO9x21_cWbvAGeLfpEquOgCLcB/s1600/CarFloat.jpg

The location was the Southgate Terminal Corporation at the former C&O Railroad Brooke Avenue Yard in Norfolk, Virginia. The terminal was an isolated switching district that was only served by rail via a car float from Newport News. The C&O yard was surrounded by interesting warehouses, factories, a brewery, a concrete freight depot, and a large molasses tank. In the steam era there was a small coal dock to service the 0-6-0 locomotive that worked it. The car ferry was a 370 long monster that could hold 28 40-ft cars.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: PFE 9245x R-30-5 in April 1943 - still in late 1920s paint?

Robert kirkham
 

Hi Al,

I’m pretty sure that green is not a colour-shifted version of chocolate brown.  There is a sea of brown around the car, so i think the film was in the ballpark and the car was actually green.   My understanding of Brunswick green is that it is a bit of yellow added to black, and i would contrast that with the colour used on this reefer, which is brighter/lighter.   Of note, it is a very fresh coat of paint, or recently varnished or waxed - you can see the reflection of the cyilindrical white tank car on the shiny surface of the paint on the reefer (in the vicinity of the 67 in the car number).

Rob   



On May 16, 2022, at 9:15 AM, al_brown03 <abrown@...> wrote:

On the subject of color shifts in old photos: understanding that the Mars car is actually chocolate brown, my first reaction was "Brunswick green".

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

Bruce Smith
 

Bill,


First, we’re really talking about cars with composite (steel and wood) or wood superstructures. While wood sheathing is applied to the interior of steel cars, they are not referred to as “double sheathed”, even if they really are. The sheathing consists of boards that are used to create the walls, floor, and sometimes roof, of the car.  On a single sheathed car, there is typically a single layer of boards that form both the inside lining and the outside “sheathing” of the car. These were typically attached to the inside of the metal superstructure (bracing) of the car, generating the modeling term “outside braced boxcar”.  On a double sheathed car, sheathing was attached to both the inside (liner) and outside (car body sheathing) of the car superstructure bracing. This provided greater protection from the weather for delicate loads that needed to be kept dry. In addition, it might be insulated, providing some level of temperature control.


Thus, on a practical level, single sheathed cars can be recognized by the visible exterior bracing, while double sheathed cars typically have a wood sided exterior with the bracing hidden behind the sheathing.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "wrlyders via groups.io" <blyders@...>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, May 16, 2022 at 11:53 AM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

 

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

This thread seems to have morphed into a “which single and double sheathed box cars cars made it thru the Transition era into the 60s”.

 

I have done some searches on sheathed box cars and know they were built in the 1910s thru WWII and lasted into the 50s.

 

I have a Northeastern Models single sheathed box car to build.

 

But I have a more basic question: What is a single sheathed box car vs. a double sheathed box car”? What is the sheathing?

 

Thanks, Bill

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ted Larson via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2022 7:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

 

As a kid I watched many GN trains go through town full of old SS and DS cars.  For online grain service they could have been at work past their interchange life? 




--
Ted Larson
Trainweb.org/MHRR   ---   GN in 1965   ---   NASG.org 


Re: Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

wrlyders
 

This thread seems to have morphed into a “which single and double sheathed box cars cars made it thru the Transition era into the 60s”.

 

I have done some searches on sheathed box cars and know they were built in the 1910s thru WWII and lasted into the 50s.

 

I have a Northeastern Models single sheathed box car to build.

 

But I have a more basic question: What is a single sheathed box car vs. a double sheathed box car”? What is the sheathing?

 

Thanks, Bill

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ted Larson via groups.io
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2022 7:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

 

As a kid I watched many GN trains go through town full of old SS and DS cars.  For online grain service they could have been at work past their interchange life? 



--
Ted Larson
Trainweb.org/MHRR   ---   GN in 1965   ---   NASG.org 


Re: PFE 9245x R-30-5 in April 1943 - still in late 1920s paint?

al_brown03
 

On the subject of color shifts in old photos: understanding that the Mars car is actually chocolate brown, my first reaction was "Brunswick green".

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: F&C AC&F Mathieson Dry Ice Car

Ed Hawkins
 



On May 15, 2022, at 10:26 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Given the SHPX markings on the early kit, is it reasonable to think the that car was built by AC&F?

Bruce,
Following is a list of ACF dry ice cars built with sides in which the upper part are sloped. Build dates range from 1935 to 1946. Several prior orders built from 1932 to 1935 had straight sides. In the list the 4-digit ACF lot no. is followed by the reporting marks, car no. series, quantity built, and build date. As the roster denotes, there were relatively few cars of this type built by ACF with all 38 built at the Chicago plant.

1409 - LCIX 1006-1010, 5, 5-35
1487 - MALX 5016-5017, 2, 5-36
1643 - MAWX 5018-5019, 2, 5-37
1681 - MAWX 5020, 1, 1937 (month unknown)
1801 - MAWX 5021-5023, 3, 4-38
2206 - MAWX 5024-5027, 4, 5-41
2427 - MAWX 5028-5032, 6, 4-42
2828 - SHPX 1500-1514, 15, 3-46 (leased to Mathieson) 

Painting specs for all cars: aluminum superstructure; black underframe, grabs, hand brake, brake rigging, and trucks. Stencils for the LCIX cars were green & vermillion. Stencils were black for MALX, MAWX, SHPX. Incidentally, these cars were not all of the same exact design. ACF drawings denote the same general arrg’t drawing applied to lots 1487, 1643, and 1681. A difference g/a drawing applied to lots 2206, 2427, and 2828. Lots 1409 and 1801 both had a g/a drawing unique to each lot number. In addition are 4 g/a drawings for dry ice cars with straight sides for MALX and LCIX. Four brake arrg’t drawings cover one lot with straight sides and three that apply to all 8 lots with sloped sides. 

The National Museum of Transportation has these g/a and b/a drawings plus numerous detail parts these cars. 

Contact me OFF-LIST if interested in obtaining a PDF of the available drawings. While I can provide the drawing list, the NMOT processes the orders.

Regards,
Ed Hawkins









Re: PFE 9245x R-30-5 in April 1943 - still in late 1920s paint?

ed_mines
 

I've seen many B&W photos of long strings of PFE reefers on the Erie.
Some cars are light colored; some are dark.
Erie had at least one tunnel which would get very smokey with a steam locomotive. The dark colored car are probably covered with soot and grime.)
Many colorants blanch (lighten in color) in sunlight. Old Westerfield boxes are a good example.
PFE inspected every car being returned and washed some cars. I think the cleaning solution may have encouraged the color shift.
Car servicing including washing and repainting was probably limited during WWII.
Tony's excellent book has pictures of steam era PFE cars in color and they were orange.
I've seen early '50s era color pictures of PFE reefers where the car side is yellow/gold and the reweigh data is on an orange, repainted background. 



Re: Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

 

Perhaps it’s time to change the subject line?

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Allen Cain <Allencaintn@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Monday, May 16, 2022 at 8:24 AM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

 

What industries would have been receiving dry ice reefers in the mid 1950s?

 

--

Allen Cain

Modeling The Southern RR in 1955 in HO Scale


--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


Re: F&C AC&F Mathieson Dry Ice Car was Dry Ice Corp reefer, DICX ?? 218? in May 1943

Allen Cain
 

The box states that it would fit up to 1960 but I cannot find it in the 1955 October ORER under the SHPX reporting marks included with the decals.

If this is correct are their decals available in HO which are correct for this car in 1955?

--
Allen Cain
Modeling The Southern RR in 1955 in HO Scale

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


Re: Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

Allen Cain
 

What industries would have been receiving dry ice reefers in the mid 1950s?

--
Allen Cain
Modeling The Southern RR in 1955 in HO Scale

--
Allen Cain
Modeling the Southern in 1955 in HO Scale


Re: St Louis Refrigerator Car Co

Joe Pauley
 

Heres a few more


Roof ribs

Walter Cox <WaltGCox@...>
 

I am working on a six covered hopper car build and will require ribs for all 6 roofs. Is there a source for decent ribs or am I looking at scratch building them. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. The cars involved are the CNR semi clones of the AFC NYC cars. (Yeah, the old E & B Valley kits but they are the only game in town  and I have already scaled down the side ribs.)
Walt

In a message dated 5/16/2022 2:19:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, repairman87@... writes:
 
I have the General Arrangement drawings from AC&F of this car so it was definitely but by them.

I ordered one of these kits off of Ebay.  I will compare it to the drawings.  I looked at the photos of the Ebay kit and noticed the drawings indicate a miner lever hand brake not an Ajax.  Also the roof should have ribs where the seams meet.  Both of these should be easy fixes.  The underframe isn't even close to the General Arrangement drawings.  It has different cross members and the brake rigging is different.  The GA drawings call for leverage cams and other oddities for the time period.  Again certainly over comeable 

All that said I am excited to get the model.  It will build into a unique model.  Plus it's always a good day when new resin kits come out.

Scott McDonald 


Re: Rapido USRA double sheath and single sheath boxcar question

Ted Larson
 

As a kid I watched many GN trains go through town full of old SS and DS cars.  For online grain service they could have been at work past their interchange life? 




--
Ted Larson
Trainweb.org/MHRR   ---   GN in 1965   ---   NASG.org 


Re: F&C AC&F Mathieson Dry Ice Car was Dry Ice Corp reefer, DICX ?? 218? in May 1943

Scott
 

I have the General Arrangement drawings from AC&F of this car so it was definitely but by them.

I ordered one of these kits off of Ebay.  I will compare it to the drawings.  I looked at the photos of the Ebay kit and noticed the drawings indicate a miner lever hand brake not an Ajax.  Also the roof should have ribs where the seams meet.  Both of these should be easy fixes.  The underframe isn't even close to the General Arrangement drawings.  It has different cross members and the brake rigging is different.  The GA drawings call for leverage cams and other oddities for the time period.  Again certainly over comeable 

All that said I am excited to get the model.  It will build into a unique model.  Plus it's always a good day when new resin kits come out.

Scott McDonald 


F&C AC&F Mathieson Dry Ice Car was Dry Ice Corp reefer, DICX ?? 218? in May 1943

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

I purchased one of the new F&C Mathieson dry ice cars at the PRRT&HS Annual meeting this week and since it does not include very much prototype data, I was curious to learn more about these cars!

For example, the box indicates 1938 as the earliest date, but the decals seem to show 1942 as a build date for one car, and 1946 for another. 

Given the SHPX markings on the early kit, is it reasonable to think the that car was built by AC&F?

Regards,
Bruce Smith


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of bounce+13731+192676+676026+2098347@groups.io <bounce+13731+192676+676026+2098347@groups.io>
Sent: Sunday, May 15, 2022 8:37 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Dry Ice Corp reefer, DICX ?? 218? in May 1943
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.


Re: PFE 9245x R-30-5 in April 1943 - still in late 1920s paint?

Jack Mullen
 

The Mars billboard reefers painted chocolate brown are fairly well known, since foobie versions have been applied to a number of inappropriate models. The post-ban plain lettered cars are less well known.  From b/w photos which showed a dark body color, I'd assumed the TMX cars remained in brown. This photo however seems to be dark green.  Anybody know more?

Jack Mullen


Re: St Louis Refrigerator Car Co

pennsylvania1954
 

Boxcar end on the left will help date the photo.
--
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: AAR Rules

Guy Wilber
 

Dennis wrote:

"However, I felt that his explanation of how the standard charges for repairs worked, a topic that, to my knowledge, has never been discussed here, was worth the exposure and discussion. Indeed, just today someone seemed confused how a car could be repacked on a foreign line, and the answer is simple... it's due (which is why the date of the last RPKD is stenciled on the car) do it and bill the car owner."

One of the essential fundamentals of the Interchange Rules was that foreign cars were to be treated in the same manner as home cars.  All billing costs, both labor and parts, are listed within the Interchange Rules....any time you (or anyone) has a question regarding that aspect I will do my best to answer.  The procedural part is easy and I agree that Mr. Dawson did a nice summary of the process.  

"As to side agreements to handle non-compliant cars, someplace I ran into a reference That one of the major Canadian roads agreed to handle non-compliant cars for the Pacific Great Eastern to the Vancouver docks, but not beyond the Vancouver switching district. I imagine the PGE was a signatory to the AAR Interchange agreement, but also had lots of non-compliant cars; this would allow more of their meager roster to service their traffic. The problem is, since I don't remember where I saw it, I can't say for sure if it was pre-1960."

You unknowingly answered your own question.  As long as non compliant cars remained within a switching district to be loaded or unloaded it was permitted.  NO use in interchange.  There may very well have been exceptions, but those were VERY minimal.  Pacific Great Eastern was a subscriber to the Interchange Rules.  


Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada

 
 
 

 


Re: AAR Rules

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Sun, May 15, 2022 at 03:53 PM, Guy Wilber wrote:
Mr. Dawson stated; "It also does not prevent individual railroads from operating non-compliant cars by agreement among themselves." 
 
Dennis, you recently made this same claim:  "The AAR regulations only governed interchange, and were based on an agreement between all the member railroads. As such, each road could use whatever "banned" equipment on its own lines, and even make side agreements to accept "banned" equipment from other roads."
I respect Mr. Dawson's contributions, he is well informed.  I do believe it is important to distinguish the differences within the periods of interest.  
Guy,
I agree completely, and since Mr. Dawson's entire career happened after our period of interest, he does not speak to the situation before his time. However, I felt that his explanation of how the standard charges for repairs worked, a topic that, to my knowledge, has never been discussed here, was worth the exposure and discussion. Indeed, just today someone seemed confused how a car could be repacked on a foreign line, and the answer is simple... it's due (which is why the date of the last RPKD is stenciled on the car) do it and bill the car owner.

As to side agreements to handle non-compliant cars, someplace I ran into a reference That one of the major Canadian roads agreed to handle non-compliant cars for the Pacific Great Eastern to the Vancouver docks, but not beyond the Vancouver switching district. I imagine the PGE was a signatory to the AAR Interchange agreement, but also had lots of non-compliant cars; this would allow more of their meager roster to service their traffic. The problem is, since I don't remember where I saw it, I can't say for sure if it was pre-1960.

Dennis Storzek 
 
 
 

 

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