Hi All,

I figured I would shake the list up with something that is completely ON
STMFC topic. Wow, what a novel concept I!! (:->)

In 100 words or less, what is your single favorite Steam Era Freight Car,
and WHY? Principal contributors Ted Culotta and Ben Hom are required to
respond.

This outta be interesting. I stir the pot, and see what happens.....

Thanks
Bill



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and WHY? Principal contributors Ted Culotta and Ben Hom are required to
respond.

UPRR had covered hoppers in the 1940's

But UP #1-500 were 1958 cubic feet, 70 tons nominal capacity
cars which suggest they were intended to carry much denser
commodities than grain.

Grain hoppers generally were rated at around 3000 cubic foot
capacity for 70 tons nominal capacities. The UP had none of
these listed in the April 1949 ORER. I am aware of no such
animal existing on other roads in 1949, but my survey is rather
brief.

It's my understanding that the 70-ton cars were used primarily for
cement or sand loading. The GATX Airslide cars came along in the
late 1950's, as I recall, and I'm not sure that they were used for
grain so much as processed flour and the like. The "grain hopper"
didn't come into its own until the PS-2's of the 1960's, AFAIK.

The point of my original question was to gain an understanding of
how boxcars in grain service were loaded in the 1950's. We know
grain was bagged and loaded into cars, we know that cars with grain
doors were loaded by chute. But did wooden grain elevators load both
ways? And did concrete elevators load by chute only, or did some have
the capability to fill "by the bag" and load a boxcar the old fashioned
way? It's not an idle question; such information would be helpful in
modeling an elevator located in the southwest of the 1950's. I haven't
been able to locate any photos of grain elevators in the region/period
I'm modeling to help in resolving this issue.

Shawn Beckert




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You mean I was supposed to get paid for all that research I did for

guys? Where were you when I needed you, Schuyler?

Shawn Beckert asked:

"When did concrete grain elevators begin to replace the old wooden
elevators?"

Concrete grain elevators were being built at large terminals at least as

back as the first decade of the 20th century. I don't know when they would
have begun appearing at smaller stations, but the technology to build them
is very old. (The Romans used reinforced concrete.)

"Did the two co-exist for any length of time?"

Clearly yes - there are still wooden elevators out there.

"I'm thinking concrete elevators would have shown up about when covered
hoppers began being used to haul grain, but that's just speculation on my
part."

No, long before that. It was only in the 1960s that covered hoppers began
being used for grain in a big way.

"In the 1950's would one tend to see more wooden elevators in the

than the concrete variety?"

I can't answer that definitively, but concrete elevators aren't unusual in
1950s photos taken along the Santa Fe.

So long,

Andy





Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
262-796-8776, ext. 461
Fax 262-796-1142
asperandeo@...

----------
From: Beckert, Shawn
Reply To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 12:50 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Grainloading Facilities in the 1950's

List,

A slightly off-topic question (but only slightly)
aimed at the "granger" modelers on the list:

When did concrete grain elevators begin to replace
the old wooden elevators? Did the two co-exist for
any length of time? I'm thinking concrete elevators
would have shown up about when covered hoppers began
being used to haul grain, but that's just speculation
on my part.In the 1950's would one tend to see more
wooden elevators in the southwest than the concrete
variety? Thanks for the input.

Shawn Beckert


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When did concrete grain elevators begin to replace
the old wooden elevators? Did the two co-exist for
any length of time? I'm thinking concrete elevators
would have shown up about when covered hoppers began
being used to haul grain, but that's just speculation
on my part.In the 1950's would one tend to see more
wooden elevators in the southwest than the concrete
variety? Thanks for the input.

Shawn Beckert

Shawn,

Concrete elevators date back to about 1915 when they became the standard for
building new elevators. Generally the wood ones weren't torn down, however,
so concrete and wood types coexisted for decades. In fact, there are still
quite a few wood elevators left. I see them all the time in small towns in
Kansas still today.

Wood elevators were typically 65-75 feet tall, while concrete elevators were
85-115 feet tall. (The very large elevator complexes with dozens of bins
were up to 130' tall.) So as the need for capacity increased (higher crop
yields plus trucks allowed grain to be hauled farther to larger elevators)
there was a change to concrete because they had outgrown the practical
limits of wood elevator bins. A book I read (Grain Elevators by Lisa
Mahar-Keplinger IIRC) also stated that the factors favoring the changeover
were concrete ones were cheaper, easier to build, and fireproof, and lower
maintenance.

Most of the surviving wood elevators were sided after construction with
asbestos or metal, principally to reduce fires. The book stated that wood
elevators without steel or asbestos siding burned on the average every four
years!!

I would guess that there were actually fewer wood elevators in the southwest
for two reasons. First, crop farming developed later in the southwest than
in other parts of the country, so more of their elevators would have been
built before 1915. Also, wood was more scarce (and therefore more
expensive) in most parts of the southwest US in the late 1800s and early
1900s.

I have more info, but since this is a freight car list, contact me directly
if you're interested.

Jack Boren

ljack70117@... wrote:

UPRR had covered hoppers in the 1940s.

But UP #1-500 were 1,958 cubic feet, 70 tons nominal capacity cars which
suggest that they were intended to carry much denser commodities than
grain.

Grain Hoppers generally were rated at around 3,000 foot cubic capacity
for 70 tons nominal capacities. The UP had none of these listed in the
April 1949 ORER. I am aware of no such animal existing on other roads in
1949, but my survey is rather brief.

Tim Gilbert