Date   

H34s Aren't

John Sykes III
 
Edited

I saw an ad that just came out for Bowser  "H34" covered hopper cars.  First, I noticed that PRR was not one of the road names offered, which makes sense since the PRR H34s (300) and the later H34a/b/cs (300/400/400) all had round hatches (to the best of my knowledge) and the Bowser kit is shown with square hatches.  These models are closer to a generic PS2 hopper, however, some of the build dates shown are inconsistent and at least one of the Bowser models had a clear ACF builder's stencil on it.  Check your prototype before buying.  I'm wondering if these are actually ACF prototypes mislabeled in the ad as H34s?  The Kadee covered hoppers are dead-on for the PRR H34/H34a cars and are stenciled as such.


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Tony Thompson
 

Older brass steam can barely pull itself, much less a train.  I think they were built for show rather than running.  

There are examples of this but plenty of older (pre-1970) brass that pulls wonderfully.

Tony Thompson


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

It's not just age, it's builder. There is plenty of older brass that runs like a Swiss watch. 

Or is otherwise a good runner. I have a Max Gray brass engine that, though not wonderfully detailed, will pull the paint off the walls. I wouldn’t dream of “repowering” it.

Tony Thompson





Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Tim O'Connor
 


Facebook groups are not useful as reference material... They are fun for social sharing but
everything ages very quickly and scrolls away... little Twitter, TikTok, et al. There is a lot of
content, but it's a real "time suck" as a manager of mine used to say.

Tim O'Connor


On 5/21/2022 5:31 AM, Paul Doggett via groups.io wrote:
Bruce 

There is Brass model paint and repair on Facebook.

Paul Doggett


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Adding patches and light weights to finished models

Tim O'Connor
 


In 1963 the standard 2x4-wheel trucks 169000 GRL (LDLMT+LTWT) was increased to 177000.

Yes, the GRL categories are based on journal size.


On 5/21/2022 9:44 AM, Edward wrote:
Just a note here.
\When a car is reweighed and re-stenciled, both the LDLMT and LTWT are done, along with the weigh station's code and date. 
Those two measurements are interrelated and based on the carrying capacity of the journals in the trucks.

For example, a 100,000 LB capacity 40' car has a combined LD LMT and LT WT of 169,000 LBS minus the LT WT to get the stenciled LD LMT amount.
So, when adding LD LMT and LT WT together, you get the maximum rating for the journals.

There is a chart that tells the maximum lading is for various sized journal bearings.
A larger journal size for a 100,000 LB capacity could be 177,000 LBS.

On re-stenciling, the patch would contain the numbers for LD LMT and LT WT with the weigh code and date is a fresher patch and is sometimes done on a non-matching paint field, especially if re-weighed off the home road.
Ed Bommer

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Adding patches and light weights to finished models

Bruce Smith
 

Ed,

Indeed, and as we have oft discussed here, a limited but real number of those reweighs occurred offline and so should have a "foreign" reweigh station code when compared to the owner of the car (about 10%). 

The paint out/re-stencil also varied. It could be the entire block (sometime, but rarely including the CAPY lettering and data), it could be the entire data for LT WT and LD LMT, or it could be just the last 3, or 4 digits of the LT WT and LD LMT (typically, the last 3, since weight to the nearest 100 lbs is what counted but if the LT WT of the car was near 100 or 900 in the last 3 digits, a change down or up, respectively, could generate a change in the 4th from last digit). As a consequence, when a LT WT is in that range, I will occasionally reflect that with a 4 digit block of re-stenciled data.

And of course, I make sure that my LT WT and LD LMT always add up to the correct max weight for the bearings/axles, unless the car is specially labeled to a fixed LD LMT (typically starred).

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Edward <edb8381@...>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2022 8:44 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Adding patches and light weights to finished models
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Just a note here.
\When a car is reweighed and re-stenciled, both the LDLMT and LTWT are done, along with the weigh station's code and date. 
Those two measurements are interrelated and based on the carrying capacity of the journals in the trucks.

For example, a 100,000 LB capacity 40' car has a combined LD LMT and LT WT of 169,000 LBS minus the LT WT to get the stenciled LD LMT amount.
So, when adding LD LMT and LT WT together, you get the maximum rating for the journals.

There is a chart that tells the maximum lading is for various sized journal bearings.
A larger journal size for a 100,000 LB capacity could be 177,000 LBS.

On re-stenciling, the patch would contain the numbers for LD LMT and LT WT with the weigh code and date is a fresher patch and is sometimes done on a non-matching paint field, especially if re-weighed off the home road.
Ed Bommer
 


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Bruce Smith
 

Phil,

I have to second Jerry's question... and add why? And add that your "prototype" situation only applies to straight flat running. Modeling 20-25 steam era freight cars to something like a Mountain for the typical model railroad terrain seems like a nice ratio. While diseasel modelers seemed fascinated by the concept of pulling as much as they can with a single model, I would much rather have my engines that pull steam era freight cars powered such that exceeding a modest load requires the use of helper engines. Twice the fun, as I like to say!

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of nyc3001 . <nyc3001@...>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2022 4:17 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
The only one I'm aware of is the Brass Collectors and Operators group.

Personally, I'd be interested in a group discussing methods to make brass steam locomotives pull prototypical-length freight trains. It would be cool to see a single HO 4-8-2 (for example) pulling 70 or more cars on the level at track speed.

-Phil Lee


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Bruce Smith
 

Jerry, Folks,

It's not just age, it's builder. There is plenty of older brass that runs like a Swiss watch. PRR steam era modeler Bill Neale has a great graphic showing running versus rebuilding needs on which there is a line. Above that line is defined as "Throw against the wall". Alco and Sunset for example, are firmly above the line. Now before any of you jump on me that you have an example of an Alco or Sunset steamer that runs great, I acknowledge that individual examples can defy the rule, but in general, that rule seems to apply just fine. And that rule indicates that those importers are not worth even trying to rebuild. 

Regards,
Bruce 
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2022 8:34 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
If you are not completely hooked on brass, Broadway makes excellent steam locomotives. I understand your interest, but unless you buy more modern brass locomotive production (say post 1985), you will probably need to have the locomotive rebuilt by an expert. Older brass steam can barely pull itself, much less a train.  I think they were built for show rather than running.  I have suffered through many 1970s era brass locomotives, and finally bit the rebuild bullet.  Also, as an aside, modern brass or plastic steam locomotives have much better details.

Jerry Michels


Re: Adding patches and light weights to finished models

Edward
 

Just a note here.
\When a car is reweighed and re-stenciled, both the LDLMT and LTWT are done, along with the weigh station's code and date. 
Those two measurements are interrelated and based on the carrying capacity of the journals in the trucks.

For example, a 100,000 LB capacity 40' car has a combined LD LMT and LT WT of 169,000 LBS minus the LT WT to get the stenciled LD LMT amount.
So, when adding LD LMT and LT WT together, you get the maximum rating for the journals.

There is a chart that tells the maximum lading is for various sized journal bearings.
A larger journal size for a 100,000 LB capacity could be 177,000 LBS.

On re-stenciling, the patch would contain the numbers for LD LMT and LT WT with the weigh code and date is a fresher patch and is sometimes done on a non-matching paint field, especially if re-weighed off the home road.
Ed Bommer
 


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Jerry Michels
 

Phil, do you have a layout that can handle 70+ car trains?  I am a member of the Amarillo Railroad Museum that has a very large layout and a 70+ car train would really look out of place.  We routinely run 20-30 car trains, and they look very nice.

Jerry Michels


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Jerry Michels
 

If you are not completely hooked on brass, Broadway makes excellent steam locomotives. I understand your interest, but unless you buy more modern brass locomotive production (say post 1985), you will probably need to have the locomotive rebuilt by an expert. Older brass steam can barely pull itself, much less a train.  I think they were built for show rather than running.  I have suffered through many 1970s era brass locomotives, and finally bit the rebuild bullet.  Also, as an aside, modern brass or plastic steam locomotives have much better details.

Jerry Michels


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Jim Betz
 

Bruce,

  Try repowerandregear ... they are "all about getting brass steam to run well".
As to pulling well, there isn't a specific group for that (that I'm aware of). 
Repowerandregear does talk about pulling power from time to time ... the
essential wisdom is to add as much weight as you can fit (may but usually
doesn't require changing springs) and, at least as important is to get the
fore and aft balance right.
                                                                         - Jim in the PNW


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Paul Doggett
 

Bruce 

There is Brass model paint and repair on Facebook.

Paul Doggett 


On 21 May 2022, at 09:15, Bruce Griffin <bdg1210@...> wrote:



Friends,

Could someone recommend a Steam Era Brass Locomotive .Io group? I am looking for some insights into modeling HO brass locomotives that pulled steam era freight cars. Thank you for you insights.  
 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

nyc3001 .
 

The only one I'm aware of is the Brass Collectors and Operators group.

Personally, I'd be interested in a group discussing methods to make brass steam locomotives pull prototypical-length freight trains. It would be cool to see a single HO 4-8-2 (for example) pulling 70 or more cars on the level at track speed.

-Phil Lee


Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Bruce Griffin
 

Friends,

Could someone recommend a Steam Era Brass Locomotive .Io group? I am looking for some insights into modeling HO brass locomotives that pulled steam era freight cars. Thank you for you insights.  
 

Bruce D. Griffin
Ashland, MD
https://bomodeling.com/blog/

 


Re: Adding patches and light weights to finished models

Charlie Duckworth
 

Bill
I’m probably using mostly water 60/40.  One question when using Future I assume by the property it leave a gloss coat. 

 I want to put down a decal patch of BCR that’s darker than the existing paint on the model followed by the weight, location and date.  I want to avoid changing the base color of the carbody. 

Charlie 

On Fri, May 20, 2022 at 6:13 PM WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:
OK Gang:

How diluted is diluted white glue?

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...>
Date: 5/20/22 1:09 PM (GMT-10:00)
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Adding patches and light weights to finished models

Many years ago MR had an article on putting down decals with diluted white glue.  I hadn’t tried it at the time but at one of our Missouri Pacific Historical Society annual meets Lee Freeman brought a scratch built O gauge T&P Muley caboose where he’d used the white glue technique.  The decals looked perfect.  


Here’s a CB&Q car I just finished and added Smokebox decals. I used their BCR decal first and then overlaid the weight and location using white glue.  The glue dries flat but I’m open to other suggestions; I’ve got a bottle of Future handy  


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Adding patches and light weights to finished models

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

OK Gang:

How diluted is diluted white glue?

Bill Pardie



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...>
Date: 5/20/22 1:09 PM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Adding patches and light weights to finished models

Many years ago MR had an article on putting down decals with diluted white glue.  I hadn’t tried it at the time but at one of our Missouri Pacific Historical Society annual meets Lee Freeman brought a scratch built O gauge T&P Muley caboose where he’d used the white glue technique.  The decals looked perfect.  


Here’s a CB&Q car I just finished and added Smokebox decals. I used their BCR decal first and then overlaid the weight and location using white glue.  The glue dries flat but I’m open to other suggestions; I’ve got a bottle of Future handy  


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Adding patches and light weights to finished models

Charlie Duckworth
 

Many years ago MR had an article on putting down decals with diluted white glue.  I hadn’t tried it at the time but at one of our Missouri Pacific Historical Society annual meets Lee Freeman brought a scratch built O gauge T&P Muley caboose where he’d used the white glue technique.  The decals looked perfect.  


Here’s a CB&Q car I just finished and added Smokebox decals. I used their BCR decal first and then overlaid the weight and location using white glue.  The glue dries flat but I’m open to other suggestions; I’ve got a bottle of Future handy  


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Adding patches and light weights to finished models

Tim O'Connor
 


Future (clear acrylic liquid) has adhesive and self leveling qualities. And it can be built up in layers
if you're trying to hide the decal edge. After it dries cover with Dullcote or whatever. I keep a 2 oz
bottle and a brush on the work shelf


On 5/20/2022 5:00 PM, Charlie Duckworth wrote:

I’ve pick up a set of decals for light weights, scale and repack locations from Smokebox Graphics recently and want to add them to already finished models.  One method I’ve tried is to put down diluted Elmers white glue and set the decal on it and pick up any residue with a Q-Tip.  

Any other tricks others are using?  
--
Charlie Duckworth


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Adding patches and light weights to finished models

Brian Carlson
 

You glue the decal down? 

When I add decals to otherwise completed models I lay down Microscale gloss using a small brush in the area of the decal. I let that dry them decal like normal. 

Reweigh decals would be weathered differently than the rest of the car. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On May 20, 2022, at 5:01 PM, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:



I’ve pick up a set of decals for light weights, scale and repack locations from Smokebox Graphics recently and want to add them to already finished models.  One method I’ve tried is to put down diluted Elmers white glue and set the decal on it and pick up any residue with a Q-Tip.  

Any other tricks others are using?  
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne


--
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

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