Date   

Re: CB&Q Intermountain 10’ 6” boxcar questions

Nelson Moyer
 

CB&Q XM-32 boxcars with ABCDEF variants were built between 1940 and 1958, so there are many differences among cars in this series. I would refer anyone modeling any of these cars to Burlington Bulletin No. 7 as the best single reference. This is supplemented by three articles in Mainline Modeler written by Jerry Hamsmith (one coauthored with Ed Rethwisch) in the September 1993, June 1994, and March 1996 issues.

 

Variations included trucks, handbrakes, doors, running boards, ladders, etc. Variations occurred between classes and within classes (trucks, handbrakes, and doors), so it’s necessary to know all of the prototype information for the specific car number you wish to model.

 

CB&Q first used steel running boards for the XM-32A class built between 1945 and 1948.

 

Roofs and running boards were painted on the XM-32 series cars, but the paint didn’t last long on the running boards. Steel running boards weren’t painted, but the roofs sere painted. Paint failure on the roof depended on age of the car you’re modeling. Caveat - I model 1953, so my knowledge base ends there.

 

I used the Intermountain shell as the basis for three XM-32A cars, and I have attached my constructions notes with other relevant background material. Ironically, I don’t have a photo of a car in the 33000-33749 series except the photo of 33140 in BB#7 page 7.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charlie Duckworth
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2022 8:29 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CB&Q Intermountain 10’ 6” boxcar questions

 

Nelson
Here’s two images of the 40’ Q boxcars are you saying the top one should be the pattern on the model?  Appreciate the feedback.  How about the roof walk; painted or unpainted?
 Thanks 
Charlie


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Bill McClure
 

There are examples of this but plenty of older (pre-1970) brass that pulls wonderfully.

Yes, indeed, think Akane and PFM/United. As time passed, the market seemed to move towards collectors, and detail became more important than operation. Those big Pittman, or Pittman-style motors put out the torque.

Bill


Re: Adding patches and light weights to finished models

Edward
 

Cars were-re-weighed following repairs, reconditioning, getting replacement trucks or wheels which increases their weight.
Cars lose weight as they are used, so they are re-weighed on a scheduled basis to check on that as well.

Ed Bommer


Re: CB&Q Intermountain 10’ 6” boxcar questions

Paul Doggett
 

Nice work Charlie it looks really good.

Paul Doggett.      England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 21 May 2022, at 21:38, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:

Here’s the $10 kit finished, roof toned down with brown and black dry pigments, a little brown also run down the rivet seams and white oils below the door to denote a few broken flour sacks while in transit.  Did the Q paint the roof walks?
C575C605-52F3-442C-81D4-F4432929FEA5.jpeg1DF83179-27F5-4135-BA2C-AEF81F5C1B26.jpeg
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: CB&Q Intermountain 10’ 6” boxcar questions

nyc3001 .
 

I can't answer the question about the roofwalk, but the Q XM-32s had the rivet pattern on the left. You'll also notice that the bolster ends are shaped differently on the prototype. The RCW kit models this well, I'm thinking of how to reproduce it on my IM CB&Q car.

-Phil


Re: CB&Q Intermountain 10’ 6” boxcar questions

Charlie Duckworth
 

Nelson
Here’s two images of the 40’ Q boxcars are you saying the top one should be the pattern on the model?  Appreciate the feedback.  How about the roof walk; painted or unpainted?
 Thanks 
Charlie


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Adding patches and light weights to finished models

Dave Parker
 

As of 1917, the threshold weight change requiring a restencil was 300 lbs (500 for reefers).

I don't know if this ever changed prior to 1960.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Adding patches and light weights to finished models

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Sat, May 21, 2022 at 06:44 AM, Edward wrote:
Just a note here.
\When a car is reweighed and re-stenciled, both the LDLMT and LTWT are done, along with the weigh station's code and date. 
Those two measurements are interrelated and based on the carrying capacity of the journals in the trucks.
I hope you're not saying that this was always the case, as this seems to imply. If the weight hadn't changed by more than a set amount (which I'll leave to somebody else to look up) the figures weren't changed at all, only the date and station symbol.

Dennis Storzek


Re: CB&Q Intermountain 10’ 6” boxcar questions

Nelson Moyer
 

Nice looking car, but the two rivet heads on the bolster tabs reveal it as a fake. No bowtie. Don’t feel bad, Charlie, I use the Intermountain body as the basis for three CB&Q XM-32A cars, and I didn’t remove and replace the rivets, either. Most don’t know or care.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Charlie Duckworth
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2022 3:39 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CB&Q Intermountain 10’ 6” boxcar questions

 

Here’s the $10 kit finished, roof toned down with brown and black dry pigments, a little brown also run down the rivet seams and white oils below the door to denote a few broken flour sacks while in transit.  Did the Q paint the roof walks?

--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Peter Hall
 

Try the Repower and Regear group.  This is frequently a topic discussed there.

Thanks
Pete

On May 21, 2022, at 4:17 AM, nyc3001 . <nyc3001@...> wrote:

The only one I'm aware of is the Brass Collectors and Operators group.

Personally, I'd be interested in a group discussing methods to make brass steam locomotives pull prototypical-length freight trains. It would be cool to see a single HO 4-8-2 (for example) pulling 70 or more cars on the level at track speed.

-Phil Lee


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

nyc3001 .
 
Edited

Jerry and Bruce,

I want to model the NYC's Water Level Route; on the prototype, long trains were the norm. Even though the maximum train length on the Central was 125 cars during the 1940s, it was not uncommon to see a single L-2 Mohawk pulling 90-100 cars on the mainline; the evidence for this is the freight consists on canadasouthern.com. It's no problem to run diesel-powered trains of this length given that the Central seemed to usually assign A-B-A or A-B-B-A units to a 90+ car train.

The layout that I've planned is basically a giant loop around the basement as I would like to model long sections of straight trackage as commonly seen in rural parts of the Water Level Route west of Albany. So it will likely be possible to run 70+ car trains.

-Phil


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Jerry Michels
 

I agree Phil and cast my net too broadly.  I have had terrible experiences with Hallmark, but being a Missouri Pacific modlere, they were the main importers of MP brass. Ditto for Sunset.  I bought their MP ex-Wabash 210-2 that ran like a scared rabbit on throttle setting 2!  All is well now, I had most rebuilt.  Jerry


Re: CB&Q Intermountain 10’ 6” boxcar questions

Charlie Duckworth
 

Here’s the $10 kit finished, roof toned down with brown and black dry pigments, a little brown also run down the rivet seams and white oils below the door to denote a few broken flour sacks while in transit.  Did the Q paint the roof walks?

--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Jim Betz
 

Bruce,

  The repowerandregear groups.io group exists for the express purpose of
making older brass run like the proverbial swiss watch.  Just about any 
steamer, even the Mantua and Tyco can be made to run well (I'm not 
talking about looks).  Usually it is a matter of replacing the motor with a
modern motor (can) and perhaps also replacing the gear box with one
from NWSL.  Sometimes there are other issues.  Getting the weight
distributed across all the drivers is one of the keys.

  I agree about the Also Models locos, not so much about the Sunsets
other than the very earliest of the Samhongsa work.  There have been
many builders (the guys actually doing the work, not the importers) 
who have built excellent steam locos that we can spend a few hours
on and get them pulling our steam era freight cars ... and sit back and
listen to the compliments.
                                                                - Jim in the PNW
                                                                                   - Jim in the PNW


H34s Aren't

John Sykes III
 
Edited

I saw an ad that just came out for Bowser  "H34" covered hopper cars.  First, I noticed that PRR was not one of the road names offered, which makes sense since the PRR H34s (300) and the later H34a/b/cs (300/400/400) all had round hatches (to the best of my knowledge) and the Bowser kit is shown with square hatches.  These models are closer to a generic PS2 hopper, however, some of the build dates shown are inconsistent and at least one of the Bowser models had a clear ACF builder's stencil on it.  Check your prototype before buying.  I'm wondering if these are actually ACF prototypes mislabeled in the ad as H34s?  The Kadee covered hoppers are dead-on for the PRR H34/H34a cars and are stenciled as such.


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Tony Thompson
 

Older brass steam can barely pull itself, much less a train.  I think they were built for show rather than running.  

There are examples of this but plenty of older (pre-1970) brass that pulls wonderfully.

Tony Thompson


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

It's not just age, it's builder. There is plenty of older brass that runs like a Swiss watch. 

Or is otherwise a good runner. I have a Max Gray brass engine that, though not wonderfully detailed, will pull the paint off the walls. I wouldn’t dream of “repowering” it.

Tony Thompson





Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Tim O'Connor
 


Facebook groups are not useful as reference material... They are fun for social sharing but
everything ages very quickly and scrolls away... little Twitter, TikTok, et al. There is a lot of
content, but it's a real "time suck" as a manager of mine used to say.

Tim O'Connor


On 5/21/2022 5:31 AM, Paul Doggett via groups.io wrote:
Bruce 

There is Brass model paint and repair on Facebook.

Paul Doggett


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Adding patches and light weights to finished models

Tim O'Connor
 


In 1963 the standard 2x4-wheel trucks 169000 GRL (LDLMT+LTWT) was increased to 177000.

Yes, the GRL categories are based on journal size.


On 5/21/2022 9:44 AM, Edward wrote:
Just a note here.
\When a car is reweighed and re-stenciled, both the LDLMT and LTWT are done, along with the weigh station's code and date. 
Those two measurements are interrelated and based on the carrying capacity of the journals in the trucks.

For example, a 100,000 LB capacity 40' car has a combined LD LMT and LT WT of 169,000 LBS minus the LT WT to get the stenciled LD LMT amount.
So, when adding LD LMT and LT WT together, you get the maximum rating for the journals.

There is a chart that tells the maximum lading is for various sized journal bearings.
A larger journal size for a 100,000 LB capacity could be 177,000 LBS.

On re-stenciling, the patch would contain the numbers for LD LMT and LT WT with the weigh code and date is a fresher patch and is sometimes done on a non-matching paint field, especially if re-weighed off the home road.
Ed Bommer

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Adding patches and light weights to finished models

Bruce Smith
 

Ed,

Indeed, and as we have oft discussed here, a limited but real number of those reweighs occurred offline and so should have a "foreign" reweigh station code when compared to the owner of the car (about 10%). 

The paint out/re-stencil also varied. It could be the entire block (sometime, but rarely including the CAPY lettering and data), it could be the entire data for LT WT and LD LMT, or it could be just the last 3, or 4 digits of the LT WT and LD LMT (typically, the last 3, since weight to the nearest 100 lbs is what counted but if the LT WT of the car was near 100 or 900 in the last 3 digits, a change down or up, respectively, could generate a change in the 4th from last digit). As a consequence, when a LT WT is in that range, I will occasionally reflect that with a 4 digit block of re-stenciled data.

And of course, I make sure that my LT WT and LD LMT always add up to the correct max weight for the bearings/axles, unless the car is specially labeled to a fixed LD LMT (typically starred).

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Edward <edb8381@...>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2022 8:44 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Adding patches and light weights to finished models
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
Just a note here.
\When a car is reweighed and re-stenciled, both the LDLMT and LTWT are done, along with the weigh station's code and date. 
Those two measurements are interrelated and based on the carrying capacity of the journals in the trucks.

For example, a 100,000 LB capacity 40' car has a combined LD LMT and LT WT of 169,000 LBS minus the LT WT to get the stenciled LD LMT amount.
So, when adding LD LMT and LT WT together, you get the maximum rating for the journals.

There is a chart that tells the maximum lading is for various sized journal bearings.
A larger journal size for a 100,000 LB capacity could be 177,000 LBS.

On re-stenciling, the patch would contain the numbers for LD LMT and LT WT with the weigh code and date is a fresher patch and is sometimes done on a non-matching paint field, especially if re-weighed off the home road.
Ed Bommer
 

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