Date   

Re: Stiff Shackle

Don Burn
 

I suspect that much of the confusion is because if you check some standard references on electric railroads they indicate that the Claremont Electric placed a higher interest on freight service than most electric railroads in New England. The fact that the locals bought it from a New York firm in the early 20's to keep the passenger service to me indicates it still was regarded as a trolley or interurban but just one that had freight service.

Don Burn

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dennis Storzek via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2022 2:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Stiff Shackle

On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 01:08 PM, Dave Parker wrote:


I think there is some conflation (and confusion) happening here with respect to the Claremont Railway and Lighting Co, the Claremont Branch of the B&M, the Claremont and Concord and, way after our era, the Claremont Concord (no "and"). Scott Whitney wrote the "book:" on this rich history -- see RMC 11/93, 12/93, and 1/94.

And no, the original CR&LC line was not a trolley line. It was purpose-built to move freight in and out of the heavily industrialized town of Claremont and to connect with the B&M. Passenger service was "of secondary importance" (as per Scott).

I beg to differ. This site: http://nashuacitystation.org/history/claremont-railway-and-lighting-company/ shows there was both a street railway and power company in the corporate past, and if trackage was built specifically to serve industries, it was built to take advantage of the tighter curves the trolley line style motive power could navigate, setting them up for endless grief in later years. The fact remains, the "stiff shackle" was not something that a normal 'steam railroad' crew would have to deal with.



Dennis Storzek


Need help with CRR 56xx series boxcars

Jim King
 

The local museum where I volunteer owns 2 ex-Clinchfield 56xx-series boxcars.  One of them, 5625, was part of a local doll house retailer in Biltmore (behind the current McDonalds) and was cut on to be more useful in that complex.  We are creating a poster for this car that includes its history but are lacking confirmation on its origin.

 

If you can provide its builder, series it belonged to, details about if it was originally brown or black, etc., please contact me off list.  A photo of this car appeared in a color CRR book but I don’t know the title.  See attached pic of a car numbered closely to it.

 

Jim King

http://smokymountainmodelworks.com/

 


Re: Stiff Shackle

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 01:08 PM, Dave Parker wrote:
I think there is some conflation (and confusion) happening here with respect to the Claremont Railway and Lighting Co, the Claremont Branch of the B&M, the Claremont and Concord and, way after our era, the Claremont Concord (no "and").  Scott Whitney wrote the "book:" on this rich history -- see RMC 11/93, 12/93, and 1/94.

And no, the original CR&LC line was not a trolley line.  It was purpose-built to move freight in and out of the heavily industrialized town of Claremont and to connect with the B&M.  Passenger service was "of secondary importance" (as per Scott).
I beg to differ. This site: http://nashuacitystation.org/history/claremont-railway-and-lighting-company/ shows there was both a street railway and power company in the corporate past, and if trackage was built specifically to serve industries, it was built to take advantage of the tighter curves the trolley line style motive power could navigate, setting them up for endless grief in later years. The fact remains, the "stiff shackle" was not something that a normal 'steam railroad' crew would have to deal with.



Dennis Storzek


WTB: Intermountain Box Car, #41899 10'6" w/8-Rung Ladders and 4/4 Improved Dreadnaught End Box

golden1014
 

Hello Gentlemen,

I'm looking for specific Intermountain box car kit:

  • Intermountain Box Car, #41899 10'6" w/8-Rung Ladders and 4/4 Improved Dreadnaught End Box 

In particular, I'm in need of the 4-4 ID ends for a casting project.  It can be decorated or not, but it must be a kit.  If you have this model and can part with it, please contact me off-list at Golden1014@....

Thank You!

John Golden
Ramstein-Miesenbach, Germany

RPM Blog: https://railroadprototypemodeler.wordpress.com/


Re: Indianapolis RPM Pictures?

bnavigato
 

All,
A quick note about the yellow flowering plants across Illinois and Indiana. It's a weed, called cress leaf grounsel, butterweed, senacio, other local slang names. Take your pick. Canola is a crop, mostly grown in Canada, not so much in the U.S. There are some that have attempted to use this weed to make G-scale trees.

Regards,
Bill Navigato
In Central Illinois
cpsrailroad.com


Re: WFEX long angled queen posts update

O Fenton Wells
 

Looking mighty good Charlie 
Nicely done
Fenton 


On May 24, 2022, at 7:36 AM, Paul Doggett via groups.io <paul.doggett2472@...> wrote:

Charlie 

It’s looking really good 

Paul Doggett 


On 24 May 2022, at 12:28, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:



Added the NSC decals over the last couple of days and end details.  Next to add the end straps hand grabs,  ladders and vertical brake staff.  

D15FD8C9-5057-4348-A056-C7A2546947A7.jpeg


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: WFEX long angled queen posts update

Paul Doggett
 

Charlie 

It’s looking really good 

Paul Doggett 


On 24 May 2022, at 12:28, Charlie Duckworth <omahaduck@...> wrote:



Added the NSC decals over the last couple of days and end details.  Next to add the end straps hand grabs,  ladders and vertical brake staff.  

D15FD8C9-5057-4348-A056-C7A2546947A7.jpeg


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: WFEX long angled queen posts update

Charlie Duckworth
 

Added the NSC decals over the last couple of days and end details.  Next to add the end straps hand grabs,  ladders and vertical brake staff.  


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Paul Doggett
 

Matt 

It’s the concept I much prefer sprung horn blocks. Although I am note sure where i would get replacement springs from these days fortunately I have some in stock from Greenway Products I am not sure if they are still trading.
The wire had given up the ghost the loco was rocking from side to side, when I pulled the wire out it actually snapped on one side. It was 0.016” all I had was 0.015”phosphor bronze but it’s running really well now but I have bought in some 0.018” piano wire just in case I need to do it again I also have a Hallmark ATSF small 2-10-2 and if that gives up I will replace the wire with the piano wire. 

Paul Doggett 

On 24 May 2022, at 04:22, Matt Goodman via groups.io <mgoodman312@...> wrote:

Paul, I was imagining using phosphor-bronze wire for a springy equalizer. What was it that gave you trouble with the bent wire approach; the concept or the material employed?

Thanks.  

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio

Sent from my mobile

On May 23, 2022, at 1:37 PM, Paul Doggett via groups.io <paul.doggett2472@...> wrote:

I have a Westside SP GS 7/8 with the same bent wire idea I have just had to replace it with phosphor bronze wire it’s an awful idea.
Paul Doggett.    England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 23 May 2022, at 18:13, Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...> wrote:

Matt, I agree. Again to Hallmark, they used a bent wire instead of springs. Replacing that actual springs helped a lot. You gotta see a Hallmark MP 2-8-0 with the bent wire to believe the front to back and side to side lean. Jerry Michels 


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

 

Paul, I was imagining using phosphor-bronze wire for a springy equalizer. What was it that gave you trouble with the bent wire approach; the concept or the material employed?

Thanks.  

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio

Sent from my mobile

On May 23, 2022, at 1:37 PM, Paul Doggett via groups.io <paul.doggett2472@...> wrote:

I have a Westside SP GS 7/8 with the same bent wire idea I have just had to replace it with phosphor bronze wire it’s an awful idea.
Paul Doggett.    England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 23 May 2022, at 18:13, Jerry Michels <gjmichels53@...> wrote:

Matt, I agree. Again to Hallmark, they used a bent wire instead of springs. Replacing that actual springs helped a lot. You gotta see a Hallmark MP 2-8-0 with the bent wire to believe the front to back and side to side lean. Jerry Michels 


Santa Fe BX-38

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


Hi Tom:

I don't have any information on the Bx38 but have some experience with the Bx-37.  I have two of the Bx-37 cars.  One is anIntermountain car that features the small herald.  The second is a Sunshine car that I bought completed at a Santa Fe meet.

The Sunshine car had the large herald and this was so noted on the box.  I had a number of photos of the Bx-37 none of which had the large herald. I wanted to validate thus and contacted several Santa Fe experts and posted the question on the STMFC list.  Nobody had heard of this.  

Several years later I was looking for something else and came across a Richard Hendrickson article on war emergency boxcars in Mainline Modeler and lo and behold there was a photo of the car.  No information was given save for pointing out the large herald.  I came to think that this was a "one of" created on a repaint where they did not have 
a small stencil.

Hope all is well.

Take Care:

Bill



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
S


Re: ATSF Bx-39 Question

John Barry
 

Tom,

The 1910 era 4 foot herald was discontinued in 1921 in favor of a 3 foot herald.  These heralds used the thinner extended serif font similar to Bookman Old Style seen throughout the depression and WWII.  In 1958, Santa Fe changed the herald font to a wider, more rounded style similar to Cooper Black.  That new font was also used in the giant circle & cross heralds introduced in 1959.  In addition to the 2' herald on the Bx-39 Steve spotted in the builder's photo, 2' heralds also appeared on the Fe-26, Bx-48, Ga-52, Ga-58 and Ga-65.  Some other repaints also got the 2' herald if the shop didn't have the correct 3 foot stencil, but that was rare.  

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 






On Monday, May 23, 2022, 05:52:27 PM EDT, Tom Lawler <tjlawler@...> wrote:


Hi all,

I am building a couple Sunshine Bx-39’s. I don’t want a Hide Service car. I need them as built. Would I be correct in assuming that 4 ft heralds were on the “as built” car instead of the 2 ft heralds (provided in kit) for Hide Service?

Thanks for the help.

Tom






Re: ATSF Bx-39 Question

Steve SANDIFER
 

Pullman birthday photo shows 2' herald. Always 2' herald.
The hide cars are numbered 40180-40224, the regular cars were 151092-151491.


J. Stephen Sandifer

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Lawler
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2022 4:52 PM
To: Steam Era Freightcars <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] ATSF Bx-39 Question

Hi all,

I am building a couple Sunshine Bx-39’s. I don’t want a Hide Service car. I need them as built. Would I be correct in assuming that 4 ft heralds were on the “as built” car instead of the 2 ft heralds (provided in kit) for Hide Service?

Thanks for the help.

Tom


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Doug Polinder
 

Jerry, ah KAH nay is a Japanese herb; the term means "red root."  Have no idea what that has to do with model trains; nor do I understand what "Tenshodo" 'heavenly prize hall' has to do with them either.  I just remember that I enjoyed visiting the Tenshodo store on the eighth floor of the Tenshodo building in the Ginza in Tokyo many years ago when I lived there.

Doug Polinder
formerly of Tokyo, Japan
now Cibolo TX


ATSF Bx-39 Question

Tom Lawler
 

Hi all,

I am building a couple Sunshine Bx-39’s. I don’t want a Hide Service car. I need them as built. Would I be correct in assuming that 4 ft heralds were on the “as built” car instead of the 2 ft heralds (provided in kit) for Hide Service?

Thanks for the help.

Tom


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

Daniel A. Mitchell
 

I agree completely! Figuratively, an hour spent working on your cars to free up their rolling qualities is worth a week of fiddling with a locomotive trying to get it to pull more. I try, often successfully, to get my cars to roll on a one percent grade. If they won’t roll on a two percent grade they need serious work.

I also agree that the NMRA weight standards are too heavy. For many years I’ve weighted my cars to perhaps 2/3 of the NMRA standard. I’m not real fussy about it. If the trucks are in gauge, roll freely. and are properly adjusted on the car, weight really doesn’t mean a lot. Yes, one should not place really light cars at the front of a train … the prototype shouldn’t either, and have discovered that at their grief.

And curves sharper than 30” radius (HO) will hamper your ability to pull long trains, as will grades steeper than one percent. The prototype has the same problems.

Dan Mitchell
==========

On May 23, 2022, at 2:52 PM, vapeurchapelon <j.markwart@...> wrote:

Phil,
 
the two most effective things to "make trains long(er)" are 1. reducing weight per car and 2. improving their rolling ability.
 
Regarding 1. This of course has directly to do with the used curve radii. I am assuming a person being a member of a group interested to create freight cars as accurate as possible won't use ridiculous radii to run these cars.
Many - including me - think that the NMRA recommendations for car weighting are outdated. Many think it isn't necessary to make cars as heavy as per those recommendations dating back to trucks with awful rolling quality and track systems and laying procedures remembering more to toys than to 'serious modeling'. Much more important than high total weight is an as low as possible center of gravity - which you will automatically get by using all-metal wheels and metal couplers. Within my "non-brass-days" I used to run trains of much more than 100 cars with only one engine - the cars all being plastic kits built without their steel weights. Admittedly on curves no less than 80" - but it worked PERFECTLY! - not one single derailment. I am very sure (and several of my friends already tested it and confirmed to me) that it will work as fine on much tighter curves as long as you have fine and smooth track everywhere. During the coming years(s) I will test it with a 100 car C&O coal train (Atlas, Accurail, etc.).
 
Regarding 2. Todays plastic trucks usually have fantastic free-rolling quality - and I recommend to use those and convert every car to current trucks as long as the accurate type is available. By doing that I also use a spring under the scew head - tight enough to prevent wobbling/ jiggling and soft enough to allow free movement of the truck.
 
The following link does show my current freight train, engine seen is a brass Challenger Imports DM&IR 2-10-4:
 
 
Engine (without tender) weighs about 21-22 ounces.
Fact 1: -all cars are BRASS! I didn't check total weight, but it's really heavy...
Fact 2: -most cars have been converted to Tahoe (and a few other) plastic trucks, but about 10 cars still have their original brass trucks, and 4 or 5 of them are rolling really bad.
So I don't have any doubts that this engine is able to pull maybe 70 brass freight cars when equipped with good trucks and 100+ car plastic trains with current (great) rolling ability.
As another member already pointed out, the earlier Japanese models usually are much more rugged, heavier and long-lasting than later Korean models (but are less detailed in most cases).
 
Regarding your engines: -make sure the mechanism is running well without any bind at any place at your layout. Check this by removing the gear box and shove engine by hand. Make sure it tracks well, has a good gear box and a strong motor of course. Make sure the center of gravity is above center driver, add some weight when there is room. (But don't overdo this - the motor should be strong enough to turn drivers by about half-throttle or even a little less - if it stalls it won't live long...). Pilot and/ or trailing trucks should have A LITTLE spring pressure to hold the truck down on the rails - but very often it's way too much - robbing a lot of pulling power.
 
I hope this is of some use for you. Good luck and happy modeling!
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Samstag, 21. Mai 2022 um 11:17 Uhr
Von: "nyc3001 ." <nyc3001@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.
The only one I'm aware of is the Brass Collectors and Operators group.

Personally, I'd be interested in a group discussing methods to make brass steam locomotives pull prototypical-length freight trains. It would be cool to see a single HO 4-8-2 (for example) pulling 70 or more cars on the level at track speed.

-Phil Lee


Re: Stiff Shackle

Dave Parker
 

I think there is some conflation (and confusion) happening here with respect to the Claremont Railway and Lighting Co, the Claremont Branch of the B&M, the Claremont and Concord and, way after our era, the Claremont Concord (no "and").  Scott Whitney wrote the "book:" on this rich history -- see RMC 11/93, 12/93, and 1/94.

And no, the original CR&LC line was not a trolley line.  It was purpose-built to move freight in and out of the heavily industrialized town of Claremont and to connect with the B&M.  Passenger service was "of secondary importance" (as per Scott).
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Indianapolis RPM Pictures?

Eric Hansmann
 

Clark wrote:

 

Best rumor was the resurrection of the ChicagoLand RPM maybe this Oct.? Fingers crossed...

 

 

 

Please stop this rumor. It is false. There isn’t any planning in process for a Chicagoland RPM that I know of. Not from Frank Hodina or Mike Skibbe.

 

Heck, Mike just wrapped up the RPM portion of Indy Junction. It takes more than four or five months to pull together a big event like that.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


Re: Stiff Shackle

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Mon, May 23, 2022 at 10:39 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:

In addition, this was photographed on the Claremont and Concord Railway, a short line spun off from the B&M and well known for its tight radii, steep grades, and street running. Bruce Davison, who is pictured, has a podcast describing his railroad experiences at https://www.bmrrhs.org/highgreen/2021/8/20/high-green-episode-11-bruce-davison-part-1

I believe the C&C was originally a trolley line. A lot of trolley lines, while built for passenger service, tried to get into carload freight during the twenties and thirties as the passenger ridership dropped on account of increased automobile ownership. At that time freight cars were smaller, a 40 foot car was the longest commonly seen. Those lines that lasted after WWII as diesel shortlines had to do all sorts of creative things to handle the longer cars that became common.

By the way, the common name for both these things and the longer ones used to move disabled streetcars is drawbar.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.

vapeurchapelon
 

Jerry,
 
yes, Hallmark unfortunately sold some truly horrible models. Some of them - e. g. IC 4-8-2 or Frisco 2-8-2 - still without alternative up to date.
I don't know the MoPac 2-8-8-2 personally, but nonetheless I would call their last projects - the mid-1990s ATSF 4-8-4s, 2-10-4s and Blue Goose 4-6-4 - their best efforts. Have some of them, they are well-built, well detailed AND well running - true late Samhongsa models.
 
Greetings
 
Johannes
 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 22. Mai 2022 um 23:44 Uhr
Von: "Jerry Michels" <gjmichels53@...>
An: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Betreff: Re: [RealSTMFC] Brass Steam Locomotives that Pull Freight Cars.
My take is that brass manufacturing progressed from excellent runners with less details (good for the era), to poor runners with good detail, to fine runners with excellent detail.  I admit my experience is colored by being a MoPac follower, so I liked the PFM 2201 4-8-4, knew I was going to have to have 99% of Hallmark rebuilt, and absolutely loved the later Overland 2101 4-4 and 1901 2-8-4 production.  Among MoPac modelers the saying was that you ran Hallmark for five feet and the side rods fell off.  Even their best effort, the single 3000 class 2-8-8-2 was nicely detailed but performed poorly.It was interesting to see the cylinder saddle on the rear engine waddling back and forth as a cold solder joint gave way after the proverbial five feet.
 
My best experience was to have the great fortune to purchase a number of super brass locomotives from the late Joe Collias collection. They needed new motors, DCC and sound. They were older brass 1960s 'bases' (I think Akane) super-detailed for the Missouri Pacific.  
 
Question: is the name pronounced a-cane, a-con-e, soft or hard a, or something else?
 
Jerry Michels

4261 - 4280 of 197023