Date   

Photo: N&W Livestock Car 33000 (Undated)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: N&W Livestock Car 33000 (Undated)

Photo from the Virginia Tech University Libraries

https://imagebase.lib.vt.edu/image_viewer.php?q=NS2780

Click on photo to enlarge.

Class SK

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railway Bull Shippers Group

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup


Photo: Rock Island Hide Loading Boxcar 141137 (1956)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Rock Island Hide Loading Boxcar 141137 (1956)

A photo from the Gateway To Oklahoma History website:

https://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc1587593/m1/1/?q=Rock%20Island

Description:

“Photograph of Rock Island Railroad cars on the Rock Island Railroad tracks, East Yard, Bricktown, Oklahoma City, OK.”

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railway Bull Shippers Group

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup


Photo: Choctaw, Oklahoma & Gulf Boxcar (Circa 1900)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Choctaw, Oklahoma & Gulf Boxcar (Circa 1900)

A photo from the Gateway To Oklahoma History website:

https://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc1473900/m1/1/?q=elevator

Zoom in on the photo.

From Wikipedia:

“The Choctaw, Oklahoma and Gulf Railroad (CO&G), known informally as the "Choctaw Route," was an American railroad in the states of Arkansas and Oklahoma. The company, originally known as the Choctaw Coal and Railway Company, completed its main line between West Memphis, Arkansas and western Oklahoma by 1900. In 1901 the CO&G chartered a subsidiary company, the Choctaw, Oklahoma and Texas Railroad, to continue construction west into the Texas panhandle, and by 1902 the railroad had extended as far west as Amarillo.

The CO&G came under the control of the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad (the "Rock Island") in 1902, and was formally merged into the Rock Island on January 1, 1948. The Memphis-Amarillo route remained an important main line for the Rock Island, hosting local and transcontinental freight traffic as well as passenger trains such as the Choctaw Rocket from 1940-1964.”

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Boxcars Near Downtown Oklahoma City (Undated)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Boxcars Near Downtown Oklahoma City (Undated)

A photo from the Gateway To Oklahoma History website:

https://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc1589584/m1/1/?q=railroad

Photo editing software should improve the lighting of this photo.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: PRR X31A Question

Philip Dove
 

If it was a Trust plate why would it have three large bolts in the middle? They may of course not be bolts but some cast relief detail, possibly the logo of a trust company.


Re: PRR X31A Question

Todd Sullivan
 

Gary,

Sounds like a trust plate.  I think that most trust plates were cast metal early-on, and then RRs decided on a cheaper way to record the trust (loan) series for the cars by stenciling the trust information, usually in an upper corner of the car side.

Todd Sullivan


PRR X31A Question

gary laakso
 

The current issue of Classic Trains, Summer 2022, on page 52 has an October 11, 1952 picture of a Western Maryland train with a PRR X31A in the lower center of the picture.    There is a rectangular plate with 4 small bolts at the corners and three large bolts in the center of the plate that is located at the top of the roof curve above the door with the tackboard on it.  The plate maybe 7 inches by 18 inches.   What could the plate be used for?

 

Of course, the photo does not have a car number shown. 

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 


Re: Photo: Team Tracks With A Real Team (1927)

Philip Dove
 

Chuck, don't you mean Switcher? Shunter is a British term. All the better if we have a scarcity of locomotives, it gives us more time to look at the freight cars. 


Re: Photo: Great Northern Tank Car 60234/Alhambra Water

Bob Chaparro
 

Ken Martin commented:

“I did a little searching and on Helena History

http://www.helenahistory.org/south_of_helena.htm

I found the photo below. The caption with it says:

"Mineral water from the springs at Alhambra was shipped in tank cars to Great Falls to be bottled and sold. 

The water, however, was eventually determined to be radioactive(radim-228), and unfit to drink.”

The tank car says "Mineral water” This would make it separate from the California company which advertises "pure spring water”.

Still a nice lettered car.”

The Helen History link shows a full photo of the car.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Watermelons In Livestock Car (Undated)

Dave Nelson
 

Steve, which ICC report had that data?

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2022 1:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Watermelons In Livestock Car (Undated)

 

You could always limit the use of the stock cars for watermelons to the month of May or June, then put them away until the next year.  

A lot of melons came out of Hempstead, TX and Luling, TX. Luling still has an annual celebration known as the “Watermelon Thump.”  http://newsite.watermelonthump.com/  Both of these were on the SP and the SP used stock cars for this purpose.

In researching my stock car book I found documentation about the construction of a siding and stock pen in Peters, TX, just north of Sealy, on the ATSF. The railroad later removed the stock chute when there had been no shipments of cattle for 6 years in order to reduce the taxable value but kept the siding because it was used to ship carloads of watermelons every year.

In 1955 the ICC reported that watermelons were the #4 product shipped in stock cars. But again, a very small number in comparison.

 

Cattle & Horses

261,100

61%

Hogs

102,600

24%

Sheep & Goats

58,400

14%

Watermelons

1,600

 

Brick and Tile

1,400

 

Sorghum grain

800

 

Ceramic sewer pipe

600

 

Tomatoes

300

 

Railroad ties

300

 

Total

427,100

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2022 10:50 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Watermelons In Livestock Car (Undated)

 

 

 

 

 

Jim Dick,

  This is good stuff!

  Having said that ... if a few stock cars were used - wait for it - every year ... was it such a
stretch that it should be called "exceptional"?

  I agree with your conclusions in general.  And note that far too many of us will use what
was an every season exception to justify having a stock car being loaded with watermelons.
  My response to that is "those exceptions are OK ... but only if you have already modeled
the normal" ... and only if they are 'irregular enough on your layout'  It is easy to have too
many irregularities - they are 'neat" but may not end up with a "prototypical feel" and 
instead you risk being "that layout that is mostly the exceptional/irregular".

  ===>  Which, if that's what you are going for, is OK by me.

  I have a specific set of cars I call "the good stuff" which is full of every day/normal cars
that would be seen in my era  They are not only prototypical (meaning "normal") but
also are at least one cut above in terms of the accuracy and detail level.  And they are
all weathered - to different levels and for different parts of the country.  Since my
layout represents the PNW in the post War years ... cars common in Florida are 
much less likely to show up than cars common in the PNW.  This works - for me.

                                                                                         - Jim in the PNW 


Re: Photo: Watermelons In Livestock Car (Undated)

Steve SANDIFER
 

You could always limit the use of the stock cars for watermelons to the month of May or June, then put them away until the next year.  

A lot of melons came out of Hempstead, TX and Luling, TX. Luling still has an annual celebration known as the “Watermelon Thump.”  http://newsite.watermelonthump.com/  Both of these were on the SP and the SP used stock cars for this purpose.

In researching my stock car book I found documentation about the construction of a siding and stock pen in Peters, TX, just north of Sealy, on the ATSF. The railroad later removed the stock chute when there had been no shipments of cattle for 6 years in order to reduce the taxable value but kept the siding because it was used to ship carloads of watermelons every year.

In 1955 the ICC reported that watermelons were the #4 product shipped in stock cars. But again, a very small number in comparison.

 

Cattle & Horses

261,100

61%

Hogs

102,600

24%

Sheep & Goats

58,400

14%

Watermelons

1,600

 

Brick and Tile

1,400

 

Sorghum grain

800

 

Ceramic sewer pipe

600

 

Tomatoes

300

 

Railroad ties

300

 

Total

427,100

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Monday, May 30, 2022 10:50 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Watermelons In Livestock Car (Undated)

 

 

 

 

 

Jim Dick,

  This is good stuff!

  Having said that ... if a few stock cars were used - wait for it - every year ... was it such a
stretch that it should be called "exceptional"?

  I agree with your conclusions in general.  And note that far too many of us will use what
was an every season exception to justify having a stock car being loaded with watermelons.
  My response to that is "those exceptions are OK ... but only if you have already modeled
the normal" ... and only if they are 'irregular enough on your layout'  It is easy to have too
many irregularities - they are 'neat" but may not end up with a "prototypical feel" and 
instead you risk being "that layout that is mostly the exceptional/irregular".

  ===>  Which, if that's what you are going for, is OK by me.

  I have a specific set of cars I call "the good stuff" which is full of every day/normal cars
that would be seen in my era  They are not only prototypical (meaning "normal") but
also are at least one cut above in terms of the accuracy and detail level.  And they are
all weathered - to different levels and for different parts of the country.  Since my
layout represents the PNW in the post War years ... cars common in Florida are 
much less likely to show up than cars common in the PNW.  This works - for me.

                                                                                         - Jim in the PNW 


Re: Photo: Team Tracks With A Real Team (1927)

Chuck Soule
 

Interesting choice of words in their caption.  I think of "marshaling yards" to be more British than North American, but I don't see a shunter is sight :-( 

I agree with Bob - a very interesting assortment of boxcars.  Thanks for sharing it!

Chuck Soule


Re: Photo: Great Northern Tank Car 60234/Alhambra Water

Staffan Ehnbom
 

Yes. GN60234 is a legit GN car number for 40' flats 60000-61605 built 1901-1908.

Staffan Ehnbom


Car ratios: Was Photo: Watermelons In Livestock Car (Undated)

Bruce Smith
 

Jim said:

..."Since my layout represents the PNW in the post War years ... cars common in Florida are much less likely to show up than cars common in the PNW.  This works - for me.

Jim,

We haven't talked about this recently, but your generalization isn't really correct for a number of car types. 

First, of course we're talking about "foreign cars" since home road cars can be anywhere from 25% or 75% or more depending on the road and location. But even there, it might be car type specific. PRR averaged 50% home road, but if you split it by car type it might be more like 25% boxcars, 50% gondolas, and 75% hoppers. 

With respect to foreign hoppers, the nearest neighbor rules seem to apply. With respect to gondolas, that traffic is often regional, so again, your rule of thumb applies.

Your generalization breaks down with respect to boxcars. The two largest boxcar fleets were PRR and NYC. I would expect to see NYC and PRR cars as the most common foreign car on ANY layout representing a continental US main line.

There are obvious exceptions such as branches that served limited industries and assigned pool-service cars. And no, the car service rules do not seem to impact this very much.

Reefers would also be a car type that might not really follow your rule of thumb. For example as Bill Welch often pointed out, "our companies" reefers (WFEX, BREX, FGEX) were used as a pool of cars and went were needed. I would expect, if you were modeling any sort of major PNW harvest season, that FGEX cars would be the most common of "our campnies" reefers.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Running Boarrds

John Sykes III
 

Oops!  One to many "R's" there in the subject.

-- John


Re: Photo: Great Northern Tank Car 60234/Alhambra Water

Todd Sullivan
 

Neat photo & story, Bob.

The tank car kinda looks like a tank strapped to a GN flatcar, with a number change.  Given that the water company operated in Great Falls, MT, it's not too far fetched to believe that the GN might have provided the flatcar to help out an online customer.

Todd Sullivan


Photo: Rock Island Yard (Circa 1908?)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Rock Island Yard (Circa 1908?)

A photo from the Gateway To Oklahoma History website:

https://gateway.okhistory.org/ark:/67531/metadc1587636/m1/1/?q=Rock%20Island

Description:

“Photograph of the Rock Island Railroad tracks, Oklahoma City, OK.”

Some boxcars to examine.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Watermelons In Livestock Car (Undated)

Jim Betz
 

  ... additional thoughts ...

  When we model a scene - as opposed to a car - that scene on our layout tends to be
permanent.  Hence modeling a stock car with some watermelons inside it - that makes
an appearance on your layout ... would seem more 'acceptable' (to the proto police)
than modeling a scene where watermelons are being loaded.  If, on the other hand,
you are modeling a specific location where they shipped watermelons every year 
then if you have an 'action scene' that has some melons being loaded ... whose
going to complain?  Certainly not me - especially if your layout is representing some
part of Texas/where ever in the summer ....
                                                                                          - Jim in the PNW


Re: Photo: Watermelons In Livestock Car (Undated)

Jim Betz
 

Jim Dick,

  This is good stuff!

  Having said that ... if a few stock cars were used - wait for it - every year ... was it such a
stretch that it should be called "exceptional"?

  I agree with your conclusions in general.  And note that far too many of us will use what
was an every season exception to justify having a stock car being loaded with watermelons.
  My response to that is "those exceptions are OK ... but only if you have already modeled
the normal" ... and only if they are 'irregular enough on your layout'.  It is easy to have too
many irregularities - they are 'neat" but may not end up with a "prototypical feel" and 
instead you risk being "that layout that is mostly the exceptional/irregular".

  ===>  Which, if that's what you are going for, is OK by me.

  I have a specific set of cars I call "the good stuff" which is full of every day/normal cars
that would be seen in my era.  They are not only prototypical (meaning "normal") but
also are at least one cut above in terms of the accuracy and detail level.  And they are
all weathered - to different levels and for different parts of the country.  Since my
layout represents the PNW in the post War years ... cars common in Florida are 
much less likely to show up than cars common in the PNW.  This works - for me.

                                                                                         - Jim in the PNW 


Photo: Great Northern Tank Car 60234/Alhambra Water

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Great Northern Tank Car 60234/Alhambra Water

This is a typical “rabbit hole” story. Yesterday I saw a photo of an HO scale layout with an interesting trackside building with a sign that read “Alhambra Natural Mineral Water”. A Google search revealed a photo of the prototype building that once stood in Martinez, CA. And a search of the company’s website revealed Great Northern Tank Car 60234, labeled for the company but with a Great Falls, Montana, location. The company still exists today, serving California and Nevada.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

3961 - 3980 of 196860