Date   

Re: MOW cars, was Accurail MKT 36’ boxcar

Ken Adams
 

Tim, 

The foobie part is that the boxcar basis should have been a 10'6" IH car. I modified some of the dimensions of the area around the door to compensate. The picture you included was the primary source material originally from Jason Hill's blog. The picture is dated after the SP changed the MOW scheme to light grey. 

This whole project for myself and one other modeler I know of doing similar bashes for the scale repair car was last years Bachman scale test car which was very close to the SP prototype.  My fellow modeler made white and black lettering decals for the scale repair and scale test cars.  The SP scale test car was black before 1956. 

There is a new SPH&TS book in the works on SP MOW equipment but it has not yet been published. The previous book on the subject is now out of print and has become a highly priced collectors item. 
--
Ken Adams
Omicron BA2.2 may come and go but I still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Photos: Boxcar Being Lowered At Hoover Dam (Circa 1931-1935)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: Boxcar Being Lowered At Hoover Dam (Circa 1931-1935)

Photos from the University of Nevada, Las Vegas

https://special.library.unlv.edu/ark:/62930/d1bz10

https://special.library.unlv.edu/ark:/62930/d1qj65

Photos can be enlarged.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: MOW cars, was Accurail MKT 36’ boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 


Well, it's only a 2.0 to 3.0 on the 10 point Foobie Scale. It could be worse! :-D

And even fine scale models often have goofy wood grooves. Properly depicting wood sheathing
(horizontal or vertical boards) remains a point of contention. :-\

Tim O'Connor


On 6/11/2022 12:05 PM, Ken Adams wrote:

Accurail is still the source of foobie MW cars:


SPMW was painted FCR prior to 1956.  Don't look too closely as the sides are a somewhat botched attempt to remove the deep weathered grooving. 
--
Ken Adams
Omicron BA2.2 may come and go but I still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: MOW cars, was Accurail MKT 36’ boxcar

Ken Adams
 

Accurail is still the source of foobie MW cars:


SPMW was painted FCR prior to 1956.  Don't look too closely as the sides are a somewhat botched attempt to remove the deep weathered grooving. 
--
Ken Adams
Omicron BA2.2 may come and go but I still live mostly in splendid Shelter In Place solitude
Location: About half way up Walnut Creek
Owner PlasticFreightCarBuilders@groups.io


Re: MOW cars, was Accurail MKT 36’ boxcar

Ted Larson
 

In 60s I recall structures similar to trailer homes mounted on flat cars for MoW workers.  




--
Ted Larson
Trainweb.org/MHRR   ---   GN in 1965   ---   NASG.org 


Re: Photo: Gondolas With Structures For Hoover Dam (Circa 1930-1935)

Ted Larson
 

Used to see MANY utility pole loads set up that same way.  Idlers used to allow shipping poles longer than the flat of gon.  




--
Ted Larson
Trainweb.org/MHRR   ---   GN in 1965   ---   NASG.org 


CABOT (CABX) carbon black hopper decals

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

I have a set of HO Scale "Early" CABOT (CABX 107) carbon black hopper decals that I'm not going to use. I believe that they might have come with an early release Rail Shops model but they may have been aftermarket. There are no other markings on the set which is all white, 2" x 4.75". I tried to scan them but the white decals on light blue paper... yeah... no.

Free to a good home. Just send me (OFF LIST) your snail mail and I'll pop them in the US mail for you. If you can't figure out how to send a private response to an on-list message, my email is smithbf at auburn dot edu.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: MOW cars, was Accurail MKT 36’ boxcar

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

Even into the seventies the prewar steel cars had utility for certain classes of rough freight. I remember in the mid seventies riding the Lake St. "L" and seeing the C&NW team track yard at Rockwell St. (four block long tracks) filled with 40' steel boxcars. This was at the height of the used brick craze, where the "Chicago pink" common brick was shipped all over the country as designer 'rustic' building material, just as fast as they could tear condemned inner city buildings down. At that time the brick was shipped loose, stacked just three or four layers deep all across the car floor, loaded by laborers by hand with brick tongs. Later the businesses marketing the brick dropped off pallets and wrappers at the demolition sites and the day labor that was cleaning the bricks also stacked them.

The best reason to use old wood boxcars for bunk cars is they are easier to heat, think of the difference in volume between the typical caboose and a AAR boxcar, and the wood cars stay cooler during the summer. Also, starting in the late fifties there was a lot of older passenger cars being retired, and those were preferred for camp car conversions

Dennis Storzek


Re: MOW cars, was Accurail MKT 36’ boxcar

Steve SANDIFER
 

It could also be that railroads cut back on the use of sleeping facility type work cars. Unionized workers went to motels and restaurants instead of sleeping on the rails. 

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of mopacfirst
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2022 1:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] MOW cars, was Accurail MKT 36’ boxcar

 

Not sure why, but the 40' steel boxcars didn't seem to be well represented in later MoW builds.  One supposition I have is that more of the 40' steel cars from the forties and fifties tended to be retired because of obsolescence based of cubic capacity by the sixties - seventies, either scrapped or converted to 50' cars.  Many of the box-type MoW cars that existed in the forties - fifties were still around, having been converted from single- or double-sheathed cars, or (in the case of MP) steel-side rebuilds that were obsolete because of their small size.  Beyond the time of this list, much larger and more modern cars started to go to MoW, displacing these older cars.  In other words, the 40' steel cars tended to be just in the wrong time frame for much conversion to MoW.  Of course there are exceptions, like the UP box in Portola that's in full freight car scheme for its era but in silver with black lettering.

Another explanation is that the all-steel cars had more value as scrap than the old steel-underframe cars, so they perhaps were more likely to be cut up than converted to MoW.

Ron Merrick


Re: Photo: Standard Coal Company Box Car Unloader (1914)

Josh
 

The Standard Coal Company was located on the Denver & Rio Grande's Spring Canyon Branch in Standardville Utah. As the name indicates, it was a "standard city," one of the first built to a master plan, one of the most modern and technologically advanced towns in the entire country, incredible considering it was a coal company town. The foundations for the tipple still stand and are impressive.

This is all standard gauge. The Utah lines were standard gauged in 1889-1891. After that, there was not one single foot of narrow gauge track operated by the Rio Grande anywhere in the state, so chances are if you see a picture in this group taken in Utah the question "is this narrow gauge?" is moot.

Others have covered the hows and whys of this style of Ottumwa boxcar loader. A while back commodities shipped in stock cars were discussed. Stock cars also carried coal and there are many photos of stock cars positioned at the tipples of the Carbon County (Utah) coal fields of which this photo is a part of. This loader tipped the car up, a conveyor filled the end of the car to the door, then they placed temporary bulkheads against that load and tipped the car the other way and did the same on the opposite end. Unloading was done with good old fashioned shovels and muscle, since most coal yards that received these boxcars didn't have an unloading machine to reverse the process.

On the subject of winter supplies - coal mines don't shut down when it snows. Perhaps dealers did stock up in the fall, but the mines are still running 24 hours a day, seven days a week. They're not piling that coal at the mine portal, they absolutely must have sufficient cars at all times to handle 100% of their output every single day. This was a struggle for the D&RG to meet those requirements, which is partially why the Utah Railway was organized and constructed a parallel mainline once the mine companies were fed up with the inability of the D&RG to satisfy the demand for timely shipment. Thus, coal was being shipped all year long, especially during Utah's wet winters when slushy snow falls in the desert and freezes overnight, turning any open loads into solid blocks of ice which is still a problem today.

 

Josh Bernhard


Re: Photo: Standard Coal Company Box Car Unloader (1914)

Charles Greene
 

Bob,

Your post generated a fascinating discussion. Good 'ol American ingenuity...when there's a need someone will come up with a solution to fill that need. I found a patent (https://patents.google.com/patent/US1266474A/en) to supplement Doug Harding's post about the Ottumwa company.

Chuck Greene
St. Charles, IL


Re: MOW cars, was Accurail MKT 36’ boxcar

mopacfirst
 

Not sure why, but the 40' steel boxcars didn't seem to be well represented in later MoW builds.  One supposition I have is that more of the 40' steel cars from the forties and fifties tended to be retired because of obsolescence based of cubic capacity by the sixties - seventies, either scrapped or converted to 50' cars.  Many of the box-type MoW cars that existed in the forties - fifties were still around, having been converted from single- or double-sheathed cars, or (in the case of MP) steel-side rebuilds that were obsolete because of their small size.  Beyond the time of this list, much larger and more modern cars started to go to MoW, displacing these older cars.  In other words, the 40' steel cars tended to be just in the wrong time frame for much conversion to MoW.  Of course there are exceptions, like the UP box in Portola that's in full freight car scheme for its era but in silver with black lettering.

Another explanation is that the all-steel cars had more value as scrap than the old steel-underframe cars, so they perhaps were more likely to be cut up than converted to MoW.

Ron Merrick


Photo: OR&N Boxcar 5060 (1902)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: OR&N Boxcar 5060 (1902)

Photo from the University of Oregon Libraries:

https://oregondigital.org/catalog/oregondigital:df711c688

End view. Photo can be enlarged.

From Wikipedia:

“The Oregon Railroad and Navigation Company (OR&N) was a railroad that operated a rail network of 1,143 miles running east from Portland, Oregon, United States, to northeastern Oregon, northeastern Washington, and northern Idaho. It operated from 1896 as a consolidation of several smaller railroads.

OR&N was initially operated as an independent carrier, but Union Pacific purchased a majority stake in the line in 1898. It became a subsidiary of UP titled the Oregon–Washington Railroad and Navigation Company in 1910. In 1936, Union Pacific formally absorbed the system, which became UP's gateway to the Pacific Northwest.”

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Accurail MKT 36’ boxcar

lrkdbn
 

I'd like to draw attention to the ACF design underframe with the exposed channel cross bearers-basically the same as the ART reefer in another recent post on this site. ACF used this design a lot in the 1910-25 period.
Larry King


Re: Photo: ART Reefer 13660 (Undated)

lrkdbn
 

This car was an ART design built about 1912-14. by ACF . The shorter door was common on cars of this vintage-consider PFE R_30-5 or 6 as built. There seems to have been a trend around or just after WW1
towards taller doors on reefers at least in the produce trade. The 1922 CBD p.222 has drawings of this car with the original wood roof, and Westerfield has a kit.
Larry King


Re: Photo: Standard Coal Company Box Car Unloader (1914)

Todd Sullivan
 

Bruce,

Most certainly coal would freeze in the winter if the loaded open-topped coal cars were snowed on or were subjected to other winter precipitation that froze in the loads.

Back in the 1980s and 1990s, I visited the Reading's two largest anthracite breakers, one at Locust Summit, PA and the other at St. Nicholas.  Both  were shut down in the late 1950s or early 1960s, but both were mostly complete when I visited them.  The  St. Nicholas breaker had a complex set of tracks that allowed unprocessed anthracite from mines to be hauled up a creek valley above the breaker and thawing sheds.  In the winter, frozen coal loads could be dropped down from the uppermost yard to the thawing sheds.  The thawing sheds had 6 tracks and probably could hold six to eight 33ft twin hoppers per track.  They were enclosed by doors on each end and steam heated.  After thawing, each car was dropped down to the scale track and weighed (minus the weight of most of the snow and ice), and then dropped down further to the dumping spot.  The anthracite was taken by conveyor to the top of the breaker, which was six stories tall, and then processed through slate-picking to remove slate and rocks, then crushing and washing, and finally graded for size and reloaded into hoppers that had come through the whole process above the breaker.  After loading, the cars were weighed again, then classified into outbound trains.  For years, I thought and planned to build a smallish layout based on the St Nicholas breaker operation, but I never got to the point of building anything.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Photo: Gondolas With Structures For Hoover Dam (Circa 1930-1935)

Jack Mullen
 

As Bruce said, they're idlers. The girders are a bit longer than the cars' I.L.  Note that the gons each have an open drop end facing the adjacent flat. The cars are in groups of three, two gons with open ends facing opposite directions with a flat between, making efficient use of idlers.

Jack Mullen


Re: Photo: Standard Coal Company Box Car Unloader (1914)

Bruce Hendrick
 

Thanks to all for the additional information. I was surprised that coal freezing was an issue. I would have thought a winter’s supply of coal would be in place long before the harsh weather

I certainly know of similar tight-bottom hopper operations but hadn’t heard of these unloaders for boxcars as described by the other Bruce I would imagine the tilting back & forth to get coal to pour out an open door would create great wear & tear on the cars.

Thanks again,

Bruce Hendrick


Re: Photo: Standard Coal Company Box Car Unloader (1914)

Eric Hansmann
 

I wonder how many box car doors came off their track while rocking on these type of unloaders. I often come across photos and damage reports on door issues in the pre-1930 decades. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN


On Jun 9, 2022, at 3:16 PM, Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

During the steam era most roads west of the Mississippi preferred gons over open hoppers for coal. In winter months they used boxcars, esp the northern roads, to prevent rain/snow freezing the coal. Boxcar loaders were used for loading. 
There was a company in Ottumwa Iowa (heart of Iowa coal country) that made boxcar loaders and unloaders. 
IH also made a loader.
Of course labor was cheap in those days, so laborers with shovels were also common.

Photos attached.

Doug Harding
Youtube: Douglas Harding Iowa Central Railroad


Re: T&P 1937 AAR boxcars

Richard Remiarz
 

I have received color photos from a number of list members and was reminded of the color photo of one of these cars in RPCyc Volume 3 (along with paint formulas for T&P).  Thank you.

 

Of course, the more you learn the less you know.  The cars were built with wooden running boards and Youngstown doors with Union Duplex fixtures.  However, all of the photos I received of the cars repainted in the 1950s show replacement 5-panel Superior doors and steel running boards, and 6 of the 7 cars show a reinforcement plate on the lower left side of the door. 

 

Based on these photos it looks like I may need to change running boards and add a Superior door, leaving the Union Duplex fixture mini-kit for another project.

 

This leads to two questions.

 

Did all of the cars have their doors replaced with Superior doors by the mid-50s?

 

What type of steel running boards were used?

 

Thanks again for everyone’s help.

 

Rich Remiarz

Vadnais Heights, MN

 

 

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

From: Rich Remiarz
Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 10:42 AM
To: realstmfc@groups.io
Subject: T&P 1937 AAR boxcars

 

Greetings,

 

I am looking for some help.  I am building a model of a Texas & Pacific 1937 AAR boxcar using a National Scale Car MK102 mini-kit.  I will be lettering the car as it would appear in the mid-50s with the T&P herald.  What shade of red were T&P boxcars in the 1950’s?  Thank you for your help.

 

Sincerely,

Rich Remiarz

Vadnais Heights, MN

 

Sent from Mail for Windows

 

 

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