Date   

Re: New member checking in

Jim Betz
 

Jim Pattison in MossyRock,

  It is easy to take "prototypical accuracy" too far - far enough that others may not
even notice and probably don't care ... one of the costs of ultra high prototypical
accuracy is the time it takes to do the research, build/modify the models, etc.
  If "that's your thing" then by all means Go For It.

  All of the "formulas for freight car mixes" that I've seen have been very good - but also
they usually use a relatively small data sample - even a sample as big as "all of the
trains passing one location in the month of April of '53" are "relatively small".  Same
thing for using the ORER numbers.

  Before anyone gets their panties in a twist - I am -NOT- saying that those formulas
are wrong.  And I'm not saying ignore them and totally do what you want.  I'm saying
that compared to the number of cars "on the SP Coast line in the years between 
_____ and _____ it is a small sample.

  What I'm doing is using those formulas to -adjust- my freight car fleet - but not to
-define- it and most certainly not to build up the consists of the trains I'll run on my
layout.
  The result of my approach is that if you inventoried the cars in my fleet you'd say
"pretty close" - but if you tried to apply those formulas to an individual train you'd
say "well, not so much".

  My layout is a "switching layout" based upon an isolated segment of the country
and in a specific era (PNW, Skagit County, GN, and 1946-1955).  And I have
-chosen- to fudge and run far more steam than the GN did in those years 
(because I love steam more than diesels).
  If an individual train is "believable" then I am happy.  If all of the trains on my
layout are "believable" (one at a time) then I am happy.  If they aren't believable
in the aggregate ... I quite frankly don't care.  ("It's my RR ...").  I'm focusing on
the Op itself and the layout second and the prototypical accuracy a distant 3rd.
YMMV and that's fine with me.

  Perhaps the real wisdom is simply to get away from the bright shiny object
syndrome and make an attempt to be more prototypical.  If that's your thing ... 

                                                                                        - Jim (also in the PNW)


Re: Southern Pacific freight cars

Jim Pattison
 

Charlie,

Thanks for the Add.

Jim Pattison

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Duckworth via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 10:48 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Southern Pacific freight cars

 

Owl Mountain SP flatcars. 

Tichy PFE reefer 

 

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 12:18 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor_at_comcast.net_Worth51@...> wrote:

A sample of HO scale SP box car models off the top of my head B-50-1/-2/-4/-6/-9 Westerfield B-50-12 Westerfield/Tichy/... (USRA single sheathed box car) B-50-13/-14 Sunshine A-50-14 Proto 2000/Walthe


A sample of HO scale SP box car models off the top of my head

   B-50-1/-2/-4/-6/-9 Westerfield
   B-50-12 Westerfield/Tichy/... (USRA single sheathed box car)
   B-50-13/-14 Sunshine
   A-50-14 Proto 2000/Walthers (-12 kit bash)
   B-50-15/-16 Sunshine/Rapido
   B-50-18/-19/-20/-21/-23 IMWX/RedCaboose/Branchline (1937 AAR)
   B-50-22 Proto 2000/Walthers (-30 kit bash)
   B-50-24/-27/-28 Sunshine
   B-50-24/-25/-26/-27/-28/-29/-31/-32 Intermountain kit bashes
   B-50-37 Intermountain/Kadee kit bashes (riveted PS-1)

   A-50-17 Front Range/McKean/Accurail (50 foot double door)

and MANY, MANY others !!

Tim


On 6/23/2022 11:18 AM, Jim Pattison wrote:

HI Tim,

HO

Jim

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New member checking in

 

Jim

your scale ?

On 6/19/2022 5:33 PM, Jim Pattison wrote:

Hi,

I model the SP but am interested in having at least semi realistic models of other road’s cars in my trains which led me here.  I hope that I can pick the collective brains about models that are available of freight cars from before 1957. 

I do have a few books on SP freight cars so might be able to help if someone is looking  for info about them.

 

Jim Pattison

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Photo: Forward Facing Great Northern Rocky (1939)

Doug Paasch
 

The photo is dated 1939, so I would agree with Bob that it's just been rebuilt.

Doug Paasch


On Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 12:10 PM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 10:15 AM, Schleigh Mike wrote:
Also note the stack of perhaps ten 2 x 12 planks in the foreground.  Is this a soon to be assembled grain door?
These *are* grain doors. 20" wide, 7' long. If you zoom in on one of the higher-rez options for this photo you should be able to distinguish two layers of plank in each panel and the darker end grain of the crosspieces on one ply.

Since the photo was taken in the milling district of Minneapolis, it's almost certain that these have been removed from a car recently unloaded and will be collected for shipment to locations originating grain loads.

Jack Mullen


Re: Photo: Forward Facing Great Northern Rocky (1939)

Jack Mullen
 

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 10:15 AM, Schleigh Mike wrote:
Also note the stack of perhaps ten 2 x 12 planks in the foreground.  Is this a soon to be assembled grain door?
These *are* grain doors. 20" wide, 7' long. If you zoom in on one of the higher-rez options for this photo you should be able to distinguish two layers of plank in each panel and the darker end grain of the crosspieces on one ply.

Since the photo was taken in the milling district of Minneapolis, it's almost certain that these have been removed from a car recently unloaded and will be collected for shipment to locations originating grain loads.

Jack Mullen


Southern Pacific freight cars

Charlie Duckworth
 

Owl Mountain SP flatcars. 
Tichy PFE reefer 

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 12:18 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor_at_comcast.net_Worth51@...> wrote:
A sample of HO scale SP box car models off the top of my head B-50-1/-2/-4/-6/-9 Westerfield B-50-12 Westerfield/Tichy/... (USRA single sheathed box car) B-50-13/-14 Sunshine A-50-14 Proto 2000/Walthe

A sample of HO scale SP box car models off the top of my head

   B-50-1/-2/-4/-6/-9 Westerfield
   B-50-12 Westerfield/Tichy/... (USRA single sheathed box car)
   B-50-13/-14 Sunshine
   A-50-14 Proto 2000/Walthers (-12 kit bash)
   B-50-15/-
16 Sunshine/Rapido
   B-50-18/-19/-20/-21/-23 IMWX/RedCaboose/Branchline (1937 AAR)
   B-50-22 Proto 2000/Walthers (-30 kit bash)
   B-50-24/-27/-28 Sunshine

   B-50-24/-25/-26/-27/-28/-29/-31/-32 Intermountain kit bashes
   B-50-37 Intermountain/Kadee kit bashes (riveted PS-1)
   A-50-17 Front Range/McKean/Accurail (50 foot double door)

and MANY, MANY others !!

Tim


On 6/23/2022 11:18 AM, Jim Pattison wrote:

HI Tim,

HO

Jim

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New member checking in

 

Jim

your scale ?

On 6/19/2022 5:33 PM, Jim Pattison wrote:

Hi,

I model the SP but am interested in having at least semi realistic models of other road’s cars in my trains which led me here.  I hope that I can pick the collective brains about models that are available of freight cars from before 1957. 

I do have a few books on SP freight cars so might be able to help if someone is looking  for info about them.

 

Jim Pattison



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: New member checking in

Jim Pattison
 

Tim, Thank you

Jim

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 10:18 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New member checking in

 


A sample of HO scale SP box car models off the top of my head

   B-50-1/-2/-4/-6/-9 Westerfield
   B-50-12 Westerfield/Tichy/... (USRA single sheathed box car)
   B-50-13/-14 Sunshine
   A-50-14 Proto 2000/Walthers (-12 kit bash)
   B-50-15/-16 Sunshine/Rapido
   B-50-18/-19/-20/-21/-23 IMWX/RedCaboose/Branchline (1937 AAR)
   B-50-22 Proto 2000/Walthers (-30 kit bash)
   B-50-24/-27/-28 Sunshine
   B-50-24/-25/-26/-27/-28/-29/-31/-32 Intermountain kit bashes
   B-50-37 Intermountain/Kadee kit bashes (riveted PS-1)

   A-50-17 Front Range/McKean/Accurail (50 foot double door)

and MANY, MANY others !!

Tim


On 6/23/2022 11:18 AM, Jim Pattison wrote:

HI Tim,

HO

Jim

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New member checking in

 

Jim

your scale ?

On 6/19/2022 5:33 PM, Jim Pattison wrote:

Hi,

I model the SP but am interested in having at least semi realistic models of other road’s cars in my trains which led me here.  I hope that I can pick the collective brains about models that are available of freight cars from before 1957. 

I do have a few books on SP freight cars so might be able to help if someone is looking  for info about them.

 

Jim Pattison

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: New member checking in

Tim O'Connor
 


A sample of HO scale SP box car models off the top of my head

   B-50-1/-2/-4/-6/-9 Westerfield
   B-50-12 Westerfield/Tichy/... (USRA single sheathed box car)
   B-50-13/-14 Sunshine
   A-50-14 Proto 2000/Walthers (-12 kit bash)
   B-50-15/-
16 Sunshine/Rapido
   B-50-18/-19/-20/-21/-23 IMWX/RedCaboose/Branchline (1937 AAR)
   B-50-22 Proto 2000/Walthers (-30 kit bash)
   B-50-24/-27/-28 Sunshine

   B-50-24/-25/-26/-27/-28/-29/-31/-32 Intermountain kit bashes
   B-50-37 Intermountain/Kadee kit bashes (riveted PS-1)
   A-50-17 Front Range/McKean/Accurail (50 foot double door)

and MANY, MANY others !!

Tim


On 6/23/2022 11:18 AM, Jim Pattison wrote:

HI Tim,

HO

Jim

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New member checking in

 

Jim

your scale ?

On 6/19/2022 5:33 PM, Jim Pattison wrote:

Hi,

I model the SP but am interested in having at least semi realistic models of other road’s cars in my trains which led me here.  I hope that I can pick the collective brains about models that are available of freight cars from before 1957. 

I do have a few books on SP freight cars so might be able to help if someone is looking  for info about them.

 

Jim Pattison



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photo: Forward Facing Great Northern Rocky (1939)

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Group!

Comments by Dennis S. & Bob H. have brought me to conclude that the car of interest in Bob C's posting is from the GN series 38000-38499 (291 cars in Jan 1943).  Was there perhaps a Sunshine Models rendering of this car?

Also note the stack of perhaps ten 2 x 12 planks in the foreground.  Is this a soon to be assembled grain door?

Regards from Grove City in western Penna.  Mike Schleigh

On Tuesday, June 21, 2022, 11:14:02 PM EDT, Robert Heninger <gn2059@...> wrote:


Dennis,

These cars (500) were built as door and half (10' wide door opening) autocars by ACF in 1923, and in the 1938-1939 timeframe, 300 were rebuilt as 6' door boxcars by GN, with the remaining 200 cars rebuilt as double door cars with a 12' opening. 100 received Youngstown doors, and 100 received wooden doors. So this particular car is no doubt in good shape as it has been recently rebuilt.

Regards,
Bob Heninger
Minot, ND 


Photo: Flour Mills & Freight Cars, Minneapolis, Minnesota (1939)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Flour Mills & Freight Cars, Minneapolis, Minnesota (1939)

Photo from the Library of Congress:

https://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/2017719026/resource/

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: New member checking in

Jim Pattison
 

Hi Phil, I don’t have any of the conductor’s train books, but that work has already been done for the SP Coast Line by Tony Thompson.  The questions I imagine asking are along the line of, is the Bowser model of a Wabash round top box car correct, sort of correct, or totally wrong?

Jim Pattison

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of nyc3001 .
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:36 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New member checking in

 

HI Tim,

HO

Jim

Funny message.

If you have access to conductor's train books, I would recommend analyzing those until you have a large sample of cars. The results can differ somewhat from the various formulas that are often used by modelers. For example, I model the NYC and use data/consists from canadasouthern.com, which means that the railroads that are highly represented in my collection are different from someone who uses certain formulas. This also allows me to adapt cars to my given locale and figure out which oddballs are reasonable to include or should be included.

-Phil Lee


Re: New member checking in

nyc3001 .
 

HI Tim,

HO

Jim

Funny message.

If you have access to conductor's train books, I would recommend analyzing those until you have a large sample of cars. The results can differ somewhat from the various formulas that are often used by modelers. For example, I model the NYC and use data/consists from canadasouthern.com, which means that the railroads that are highly represented in my collection are different from someone who uses certain formulas. This also allows me to adapt cars to my given locale and figure out which oddballs are reasonable to include or should be included.

-Phil Lee


Re: New member checking in

Jim Pattison
 

HI Tim,

HO

Jim

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New member checking in

 

Jim

your scale ?

On 6/19/2022 5:33 PM, Jim Pattison wrote:

Hi,

I model the SP but am interested in having at least semi realistic models of other road’s cars in my trains which led me here.  I hope that I can pick the collective brains about models that are available of freight cars from before 1957. 

I do have a few books on SP freight cars so might be able to help if someone is looking  for info about them.

 

Jim Pattison

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: New member checking in

Tim O'Connor
 

Jim

your scale ?

On 6/19/2022 5:33 PM, Jim Pattison wrote:

Hi,

I model the SP but am interested in having at least semi realistic models of other road’s cars in my trains which led me here.  I hope that I can pick the collective brains about models that are available of freight cars from before 1957. 

I do have a few books on SP freight cars so might be able to help if someone is looking  for info about them.

 

Jim Pattison



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Found on the side of the road

Bruce Smith
 

Chuck,

The rule was one safety valve for up to 6,000 gallons. Any size tank over that had to have two valves.

 

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "bounce+13731+193441+676026+2098347@groups.io" <bounce+13731+193441+676026+2098347@groups.io>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 5:41 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Found on the side of the road

 

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

The only source I've found for that twin L-mount safety vent on the dome in HO is Owl Mountain Models. It's in brass, so is pricey. Single L-mount vents are available, but I also like the twins since they were apparently used on cars exceeding 8,000 gals. capacity.
I asked Don Tichy if he had same in plastic (I think his parts line has good detail in that material). He said "no", but thought it would make an interesting project (maybe encouraging remark?). 

I'd like to grind down the top-mount vents on a few 10,000 gal. cars I have and replace them with this design on the dome side. They'd represent early-production cars that hadn't been upgraded with top-mount vents. 

Chuck Greene
St. Charles, IL


Re: Spring 2022 Keystone Modeler

G.J. Irwin
 

To go around the Facebook page, try this link:

https://www.prrths.org/content.aspx?page_id=86&club_id=171391&item_id=112154

Note that only the last four issues are available now for free download.  All previous issues are available to be purchased on CD.  This is a change from the prior protocol, but I don't know when that change was made.

Cheers,
George Irwin


Re: Photos: SCCX Tank Cars 167 & 169

Jack Mullen
 

The markings also suggest that these are for training rather than actual service. SCCX 169 is marked CAPY XXXXXX LTWT XXXXXX, and the third compartment is marked BUTANE. Both cars have dashed lines delimiting the compartments, and neither car has the normal  stencilled tank data.  I wish I could read the other lettering.
Maybe these are for emergency response training, or perhaps for training loading/unloading personnel, or both.

Jack Mullen


Re: Found on the side of the road

Charles Greene
 

The only source I've found for that twin L-mount safety vent on the dome in HO is Owl Mountain Models. It's in brass, so is pricey. Single L-mount vents are available, but I also like the twins since they were apparently used on cars exceeding 8,000 gals. capacity.
I asked Don Tichy if he had same in plastic (I think his parts line has good detail in that material). He said "no", but thought it would make an interesting project (maybe encouraging remark?). 

I'd like to grind down the top-mount vents on a few 10,000 gal. cars I have and replace them with this design on the dome side. They'd represent early-production cars that hadn't been upgraded with top-mount vents. 

Chuck Greene
St. Charles, IL


Re: Photos: SCCX Tank Cars 167 & 169

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 11:45 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:
I wonder if these were 1st responder training cars? The assortment of hatch types seems a little odd otherwise.
That and the added railings. The railings around the center dome on the car in the first look to be built of temporary scaffold railing parts.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photos: SCCX Tank Cars 167 & 169

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,


I wonder if these were 1st responder training cars? The assortment of hatch types seems a little odd otherwise.

 

Regards,

Bruce

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "Bob Chaparro via groups.io" <chiefbobbb@...>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 1:37 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] [RealSTMFC] Photos: SCCX Tank Cars 167 & 169

 

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

Photos: SCCX Tank Cars 167 & 169

Photo by Stephen R. Santangelo on the Facebook The Freight Car Enthusiast group.

He comments (2021):

“Caught these nearly 40 years ago at the refineries near the Los Angeles/Long Beach Harbors...Spent many years shooting in this area.”

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photos: SCCX Tank Cars 167 & 169

Bob Chaparro
 

Photos: SCCX Tank Cars 167 & 169

Photo by Stephen R. Santangelo on the Facebook The Freight Car Enthusiast group.

He comments (2021):

“Caught these nearly 40 years ago at the refineries near the Los Angeles/Long Beach Harbors...Spent many years shooting in this area.”

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

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