Date   

Re: Klasing Power Hand Brake with Vertical Shaft

Lester Breuer
 

Joe,
 I found I have a FDD&S  Mather box car in service on the railroad with the Klasing brake power brake with vertical shaft.
 Kudos on your memory.
Thank You for your help.
Lester Breuer

 


Re: tank car domes

Dave Parker
 

Ian's message contains several persistent misconceptions about the "2% rule" (which didn't apply to MCB Spec II cars built before May, 1917), the (in)adequacy of a 2% dome for volatile and inflammable products, and the notion that "most" Spec III cars were built with domes that just met the 2% minimum requirement (they weren't).  The provision of "extra" expansion capacity by not filling the cars to shell-full is not a modern practice at all, but also dates back to the teens.  We discussed this at length in August of 2019 starting with message 166255

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Klasing Power Hand Brake with Vertical Shaft

Joseph
 

Proto 2000 Mather boxcar has them

On Fri, Jun 24, 2022 at 10:04 AM Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:
Asking if someone can direct me to a photo of the early Klasing Power Hand Brake with short vertical staff coming out of the housing going up above the running board where brake wheel mounted on the vertical shaft.

Lester Breuer


Klasing Power Hand Brake with Vertical Shaft

Lester Breuer
 

Asking if someone can direct me to a photo of the early Klasing Power Hand Brake with short vertical staff coming out of the housing going up above the running board where brake wheel mounted on the vertical shaft.

Lester Breuer


Re: tank car domes

Ian Cranstone
 

As Tim O'Connor has already noted, tank car dome capacity provides a space for thermal expansion of the lading in order to prevent over-pressurization and/or lading leakage. Most cars are based around petroleum products which uses a factor of 2% – so an 8,000 gallon car requires a dome capacity of 160 gallons, a 10,000 gallon car requires a 200-gallon dome and so on. Traditionally the major use for tank cars is petroleum (and related products), and most cars utilize this 2% number.

Other commodities have very different requirements: for example, acid has much lower expansion numbers, so acid cars tend to have very small domes (which are also frequently much narrower than standard domes, although limited by the need to provide access to the car for workers). There are some other cars with very large domes, which were provided for a very specific purpose.

The expansion requirement has not gone away, but today the understanding is that this expansion capacity is to be provided within the tank body itself – the cars are simply not filled to the top. The reason for this change is simplified construction and a stronger carbody.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...


On 2022-06-24 09:01, Ray Hutchison wrote:

Could some one here offer a brief tutorial on the size of tank car domes?  This query comes from a recent comment about wanting to 'cut down' domes to shorter size for specific cars, related to car capacity and ventilation.  Earlier cars had more narrow and taller domes?  Later larger cars had larger but shorter domes (until when)?  Other factors relating to size of the dome?  Venting?


Re: tank car domes

Tim O'Connor
 


They are for thermal expansion of the cargo. The tank is normally filled while leaving the dome empty.
The size of the dome required depends on the intended cargo(s). The "tank car capacities tariff" books
list every tank car's gallonage including its dome capacities. The dome diameter can be calculated from
its height and gallon capacity, or the height can be calculated from the diameter and the gallon capacity.



On 6/24/2022 9:01 AM, Ray Hutchison wrote:

Could some one here offer a brief tutorial on the size of tank car domes?  This query comes from a recent comment about wanting to 'cut down' domes to shorter size for specific cars, related to car capacity and ventilation.  Earlier cars had more narrow and taller domes?  Later larger cars had larger but shorter domes (until when)?  Other factors relating to size of the dome?  Venting?

I suspect this information might be of interest to others on the list.

Ray Hutchison

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: UP tank cars

Tim O'Connor
 


Interesting assortment of designs - they all appear to be UTLX?

Were the steam locomotives retired by that time? When did the UP cease regular
steam operations?

On 6/24/2022 12:26 AM, Tom Madden via groups.io wrote:

Scanning some old slides and came across this one from our September 1962 trip. UP yards, Cheyenne WY. At the time I was mostly taken by the Challenger and Big Boy awaiting disposal but now the tank cars seem more interesting.

Tom Madden

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


tank car domes

Ray Hutchison
 

Could some one here offer a brief tutorial on the size of tank car domes?  This query comes from a recent comment about wanting to 'cut down' domes to shorter size for specific cars, related to car capacity and ventilation.  Earlier cars had more narrow and taller domes?  Later larger cars had larger but shorter domes (until when)?  Other factors relating to size of the dome?  Venting?

I suspect this information might be of interest to others on the list.

Ray Hutchison


UP tank cars

Tom Madden
 

Scanning some old slides and came across this one from our September 1962 trip. UP yards, Cheyenne WY. At the time I was mostly taken by the Challenger and Big Boy awaiting disposal but now the tank cars seem more interesting.

Tom Madden


Re: Photo: Forward Facing Great Northern Rocky (1939)

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 11:10 AM, Jack Mullen wrote:
These *are* grain doors. 20" wide, 7' long. If you zoom in on one of the higher-rez options for this photo you should be able to distinguish two layers of plank in each panel and the darker end grain of the crosspieces on one ply.
I agree with Jack. While the shipper could use any lumber to build a 'grain door', he would have to pay for the lumber. However, grain doors were part of the tariff, to be supplied by the railroad when they furnished the car. To this end the railroads maintained a supply of reusable panels that they collected at the destination, repaired, and returned to the grain shipping areas. These were a standard size (I don't have a drawing handy but the size Jack says sounds correct) typically made of two layers of 1" nominal boards, clinch nailed together, typically with cross pieces on the ends of one layer to better hold the panel together.

Clinch (or clench) nailing was a technique for laminating layers of boards in the days before waterproof glue. A pattern of nails were driven through both layers, the nails long enough to protrude 1/2" or so through the second layer. The points were then turned and driven back into the wood, burying the sharp points and making the nail difficult to pull out. If you google the term you will find numerous videos illustrating the technique, as it is still used in the construction of replica boats.

Dennis Storzek


Re: New member checking in

Dave Nelson
 

Walking down a well worn path from long ago;

 

In the late steam era, 1940-late 50’s there is a general rule you can consider for both box and flat cars; set aside a percentage for home road cars, more if the economy is not so good, less for robust years, more for out of the way locations, less for urban areas or mainline routes. 20% is a good number to start with.  The remainder, foreign road cars, will closely hew to the percentage road has relative to the total population of those cars,   meaning that if the PRR has 12% of all US boxcars, plan on seeing 12% of boxcars on your layout as PRR cars.  Not every train, not every day, but what will occur over a period of time.  NYC has 8-9% and so on.  Easy to do if you have space for 100 foreign road cars, much harder if the space allows only 25.

The reason for this is that ordinary boxcars and flatcars were free rolling, dispersing evenly across the country, appearing on all roadroads.  There was an ad about a brand new PS-1 boxcar that wandered for over 4 years before returning to home rails.

 

That said the above is a guide, not the law.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jim Pattison

Hi Phil, I don’t have any of the conductor’s train books, but that work has already been done for the SP Coast Line by Tony Thompson.  The questions I imagine asking are along the line of, is the Bowser model of a Wabash round top box car correct, sort of correct, or totally wrong?

Jim Pattison


Re: Southern Pacific freight cars

Tim O'Connor
 


I stopped myself before listing all of the PFE reefers. I think ALL or NEARLY all
of PFE's 40 foot reefers after 1900 were available until we reach the R-40-27, -28, -30.
Producers include Westerfield, Sunshine, RCW, Pacific Freight Enterprises, Tichy (R-40-2/4),
Trix-Marklin, Intermountain (-10,-23,-25), Red Caboose, and, well, Athearn !!

Red Caboose 53'6" flat cars R-70-6, -7, -10 (now owned by SPH&TS)

GS gondolas Detail Associates, Red Caboose, Funaro&Camerlengo

36' stock cars Westerfield, Red Caboose, 40' stock car Sunshine

1958 cubic foot covered hoppers Bowser, Kato, Intermountain

PS-2 2003 cubic foot covered hoppers Kadee, Atlas, Roundhouse

etc

 From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Duckworth via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 10:48 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Southern Pacific freight cars

 

Owl Mountain SP flatcars. 

Tichy PFE reefer 

 On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 12:18 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor_at_comcast.net_Worth51@...> wrote:

A sample of HO scale SP box car models off the top of my head B-50-1/-2/-4/-6/-9 Westerfield B-50-12 Westerfield/Tichy/... (USRA single sheathed box car) B-50-13/-14 Sunshine A-50-14 Proto 2000/Walthe

A sample of HO scale SP box car models off the top of my head

   B-50-1/-2/-4/-6/-9 Westerfield
   B-50-12 Westerfield/Tichy/... (USRA single sheathed box car)
   B-50-13/-14 Sunshine
   A-50-14 Proto 2000/Walthers (-12 kit bash)
   B-50-15/-16 Sunshine/Rapido
   B-50-18/-19/-20/-21/-23 IMWX/RedCaboose/Branchline (1937 AAR)
   B-50-22 Proto 2000/Walthers (-30 kit bash)
   B-50-24/-27/-28 Sunshine
   B-50-24/-25/-26/-27/-28/-29/-31/-32 Intermountain kit bashes
   B-50-37 Intermountain/Kadee kit bashes (riveted PS-1)

   A-50-17 Front Range/McKean/Accurail (50 foot double door)

On 6/23/2022 11:18 AM, Jim Pattison wrote:

HI Tim,

HO

Jim


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New member checking in

 

Jim

your scale ?

On 6/19/2022 5:33 PM, Jim Pattison wrote:

Hi,

I model the SP but am interested in having at least semi realistic models of other road’s cars in my trains which led me here.  I hope that I can pick the collective brains about models that are available of freight cars from before 1957. 

I do have a few books on SP freight cars so might be able to help if someone is looking  for info about them.

 

Jim Pattison


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: New member checking in

Jim Pattison
 

Jim.

I understand your point.  I too don’t intend to try for full prototype accuracy. My goal though is to be at least sort of accurate.

Since my layout is more or less complete (and building seems to be the part of the hobby that I like the most) I have decided that my next phase of modeling is two fold.  One is to upgrade the decoders in my fleet (most are from 2005-2008 time frame with a few that are even older), and to get rid of the completely inaccurate cars (like my many Athearn blue box cars) and replace them with ones that may not be 100% accurate but are at least in the ball park.  I don’t know how well this will turn out but it will give me something to work on for the next few years

Jim

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Jim Betz
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 12:31 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New member checking in

 

Jim Pattison in MossyRock,

  It is easy to take "prototypical accuracy" too far - far enough that others may not
even notice and probably don't care ... one of the costs of ultra high prototypical
accuracy is the time it takes to do the research, build/modify the models, etc.
  If "that's your thing" then by all means Go For It.

  All of the "formulas for freight car mixes" that I've seen have been very good - but also
they usually use a relatively small data sample - even a sample as big as "all of the
trains passing one location in the month of April of '53" are "relatively small".  Same
thing for using the ORER numbers.

  Before anyone gets their panties in a twist - I am -NOT- saying that those formulas
are wrong.  And I'm not saying ignore them and totally do what you want.  I'm saying
that compared to the number of cars "on the SP Coast line in the years between 
_____ and _____ it is a small sample.

  What I'm doing is using those formulas to -adjust- my freight car fleet - but not to
-define- it and most certainly not to build up the consists of the trains I'll run on my
layout.
  The result of my approach is that if you inventoried the cars in my fleet you'd say
"pretty close" - but if you tried to apply those formulas to an individual train you'd
say "well, not so much".

  My layout is a "switching layout" based upon an isolated segment of the country
and in a specific era (PNW, Skagit County, GN, and 1946-1955).  And I have
-chosen- to fudge and run far more steam than the GN did in those years 
(because I love steam more than diesels).
  If an individual train is "believable" then I am happy.  If all of the trains on my
layout are "believable" (one at a time) then I am happy.  If they aren't believable
in the aggregate ... I quite frankly don't care.  ("It's my RR ...").  I'm focusing on
the Op itself and the layout second and the prototypical accuracy a distant 3rd.
YMMV and that's fine with me.

  Perhaps the real wisdom is simply to get away from the bright shiny object
syndrome and make an attempt to be more prototypical.  If that's your thing ... 

                                                                                        - Jim (also in the PNW)


Re: New member checking in

Jim Betz
 

  .... forgot to say ...

  I'm letting the industries I'm modeling "define" the car mix of my trains by car
type - and my relaxed version of "the formulas" determine what cars I will
and will not run.  Works for me ... 
                                                                                                 - Jim


Re: New member checking in

Jim Betz
 

Jim Pattison in MossyRock,

  It is easy to take "prototypical accuracy" too far - far enough that others may not
even notice and probably don't care ... one of the costs of ultra high prototypical
accuracy is the time it takes to do the research, build/modify the models, etc.
  If "that's your thing" then by all means Go For It.

  All of the "formulas for freight car mixes" that I've seen have been very good - but also
they usually use a relatively small data sample - even a sample as big as "all of the
trains passing one location in the month of April of '53" are "relatively small".  Same
thing for using the ORER numbers.

  Before anyone gets their panties in a twist - I am -NOT- saying that those formulas
are wrong.  And I'm not saying ignore them and totally do what you want.  I'm saying
that compared to the number of cars "on the SP Coast line in the years between 
_____ and _____ it is a small sample.

  What I'm doing is using those formulas to -adjust- my freight car fleet - but not to
-define- it and most certainly not to build up the consists of the trains I'll run on my
layout.
  The result of my approach is that if you inventoried the cars in my fleet you'd say
"pretty close" - but if you tried to apply those formulas to an individual train you'd
say "well, not so much".

  My layout is a "switching layout" based upon an isolated segment of the country
and in a specific era (PNW, Skagit County, GN, and 1946-1955).  And I have
-chosen- to fudge and run far more steam than the GN did in those years 
(because I love steam more than diesels).
  If an individual train is "believable" then I am happy.  If all of the trains on my
layout are "believable" (one at a time) then I am happy.  If they aren't believable
in the aggregate ... I quite frankly don't care.  ("It's my RR ...").  I'm focusing on
the Op itself and the layout second and the prototypical accuracy a distant 3rd.
YMMV and that's fine with me.

  Perhaps the real wisdom is simply to get away from the bright shiny object
syndrome and make an attempt to be more prototypical.  If that's your thing ... 

                                                                                        - Jim (also in the PNW)


Re: Southern Pacific freight cars

Jim Pattison
 

Charlie,

Thanks for the Add.

Jim Pattison

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Charlie Duckworth via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 10:48 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Southern Pacific freight cars

 

Owl Mountain SP flatcars. 

Tichy PFE reefer 

 

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 12:18 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor_at_comcast.net_Worth51@...> wrote:

A sample of HO scale SP box car models off the top of my head B-50-1/-2/-4/-6/-9 Westerfield B-50-12 Westerfield/Tichy/... (USRA single sheathed box car) B-50-13/-14 Sunshine A-50-14 Proto 2000/Walthe


A sample of HO scale SP box car models off the top of my head

   B-50-1/-2/-4/-6/-9 Westerfield
   B-50-12 Westerfield/Tichy/... (USRA single sheathed box car)
   B-50-13/-14 Sunshine
   A-50-14 Proto 2000/Walthers (-12 kit bash)
   B-50-15/-16 Sunshine/Rapido
   B-50-18/-19/-20/-21/-23 IMWX/RedCaboose/Branchline (1937 AAR)
   B-50-22 Proto 2000/Walthers (-30 kit bash)
   B-50-24/-27/-28 Sunshine
   B-50-24/-25/-26/-27/-28/-29/-31/-32 Intermountain kit bashes
   B-50-37 Intermountain/Kadee kit bashes (riveted PS-1)

   A-50-17 Front Range/McKean/Accurail (50 foot double door)

and MANY, MANY others !!

Tim


On 6/23/2022 11:18 AM, Jim Pattison wrote:

HI Tim,

HO

Jim

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New member checking in

 

Jim

your scale ?

On 6/19/2022 5:33 PM, Jim Pattison wrote:

Hi,

I model the SP but am interested in having at least semi realistic models of other road’s cars in my trains which led me here.  I hope that I can pick the collective brains about models that are available of freight cars from before 1957. 

I do have a few books on SP freight cars so might be able to help if someone is looking  for info about them.

 

Jim Pattison

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Photo: Forward Facing Great Northern Rocky (1939)

Doug Paasch
 

The photo is dated 1939, so I would agree with Bob that it's just been rebuilt.

Doug Paasch


On Thu, Jun 23, 2022, 12:10 PM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:
On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 10:15 AM, Schleigh Mike wrote:
Also note the stack of perhaps ten 2 x 12 planks in the foreground.  Is this a soon to be assembled grain door?
These *are* grain doors. 20" wide, 7' long. If you zoom in on one of the higher-rez options for this photo you should be able to distinguish two layers of plank in each panel and the darker end grain of the crosspieces on one ply.

Since the photo was taken in the milling district of Minneapolis, it's almost certain that these have been removed from a car recently unloaded and will be collected for shipment to locations originating grain loads.

Jack Mullen


Re: Photo: Forward Facing Great Northern Rocky (1939)

Jack Mullen
 

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 10:15 AM, Schleigh Mike wrote:
Also note the stack of perhaps ten 2 x 12 planks in the foreground.  Is this a soon to be assembled grain door?
These *are* grain doors. 20" wide, 7' long. If you zoom in on one of the higher-rez options for this photo you should be able to distinguish two layers of plank in each panel and the darker end grain of the crosspieces on one ply.

Since the photo was taken in the milling district of Minneapolis, it's almost certain that these have been removed from a car recently unloaded and will be collected for shipment to locations originating grain loads.

Jack Mullen


Southern Pacific freight cars

Charlie Duckworth
 

Owl Mountain SP flatcars. 
Tichy PFE reefer 

On Thu, Jun 23, 2022 at 12:18 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor_at_comcast.net_Worth51@...> wrote:
A sample of HO scale SP box car models off the top of my head B-50-1/-2/-4/-6/-9 Westerfield B-50-12 Westerfield/Tichy/... (USRA single sheathed box car) B-50-13/-14 Sunshine A-50-14 Proto 2000/Walthe

A sample of HO scale SP box car models off the top of my head

   B-50-1/-2/-4/-6/-9 Westerfield
   B-50-12 Westerfield/Tichy/... (USRA single sheathed box car)
   B-50-13/-14 Sunshine
   A-50-14 Proto 2000/Walthers (-12 kit bash)
   B-50-15/-
16 Sunshine/Rapido
   B-50-18/-19/-20/-21/-23 IMWX/RedCaboose/Branchline (1937 AAR)
   B-50-22 Proto 2000/Walthers (-30 kit bash)
   B-50-24/-27/-28 Sunshine

   B-50-24/-25/-26/-27/-28/-29/-31/-32 Intermountain kit bashes
   B-50-37 Intermountain/Kadee kit bashes (riveted PS-1)
   A-50-17 Front Range/McKean/Accurail (50 foot double door)

and MANY, MANY others !!

Tim


On 6/23/2022 11:18 AM, Jim Pattison wrote:

HI Tim,

HO

Jim

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New member checking in

 

Jim

your scale ?

On 6/19/2022 5:33 PM, Jim Pattison wrote:

Hi,

I model the SP but am interested in having at least semi realistic models of other road’s cars in my trains which led me here.  I hope that I can pick the collective brains about models that are available of freight cars from before 1957. 

I do have a few books on SP freight cars so might be able to help if someone is looking  for info about them.

 

Jim Pattison



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: New member checking in

Jim Pattison
 

Tim, Thank you

Jim

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 10:18 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New member checking in

 


A sample of HO scale SP box car models off the top of my head

   B-50-1/-2/-4/-6/-9 Westerfield
   B-50-12 Westerfield/Tichy/... (USRA single sheathed box car)
   B-50-13/-14 Sunshine
   A-50-14 Proto 2000/Walthers (-12 kit bash)
   B-50-15/-16 Sunshine/Rapido
   B-50-18/-19/-20/-21/-23 IMWX/RedCaboose/Branchline (1937 AAR)
   B-50-22 Proto 2000/Walthers (-30 kit bash)
   B-50-24/-27/-28 Sunshine
   B-50-24/-25/-26/-27/-28/-29/-31/-32 Intermountain kit bashes
   B-50-37 Intermountain/Kadee kit bashes (riveted PS-1)

   A-50-17 Front Range/McKean/Accurail (50 foot double door)

and MANY, MANY others !!

Tim


On 6/23/2022 11:18 AM, Jim Pattison wrote:

HI Tim,

HO

Jim

 


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2022 8:09 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New member checking in

 

Jim

your scale ?

On 6/19/2022 5:33 PM, Jim Pattison wrote:

Hi,

I model the SP but am interested in having at least semi realistic models of other road’s cars in my trains which led me here.  I hope that I can pick the collective brains about models that are available of freight cars from before 1957. 

I do have a few books on SP freight cars so might be able to help if someone is looking  for info about them.

 

Jim Pattison

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

3461 - 3480 of 196817