Date   

Easy grab iron bending jig

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

The easiest to make jig to bend consistent grab irons is simply a hole drilled in a length of .060 or .080 styrene strip. Drill a hole to fit the wire the width of the grab iron from the end of a strip that's long enough to hold easily. Place the end of the wire in the hole and bend it down flat on the strip, this is the first bend. Now bend it down over the  end of the strip, making sure the wire is at right angles to the end of the strip. The resulting grab will be slightly wide (by 1/2 the wire diameter). This may be acceptable, if not simply file a little off the end of the strip and bend another. A couple tries should nail it.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Pliers For Freight Car Builds

radiodial868
 

Lester, your plier box looks very much like mine, including many of the same versions.
I've been looking for fine round tip plier, so your info on the Xuron 488 is timely.
Thanks!
--
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: Pliers For Freight Car Builds

Kenneth Montero
 

Jim,

There are a ton of grab iron bending jigs in the commercial world. Here are some examples:



http://www.laserkit.com/laserkit.htm (American Model Builders - for a caboose)

Grandt Line used to make one for HOn3. Eastern Car Works included one for the P-70 coach.

Ken Montero






On 06/29/2022 10:20 AM Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:


Lester,

  Your three "most used pliers" are what I know as "wiring pliers".  I first tried a
pair of them when I was doing some punch down blocks (for a layout).  I
now have several pair and use them everywhere and for most things in my
model railroading.
  However, I do not use them for bending grabs and steps - I build a bending
jig to do those to get the size of the end product the same size so they look
right on a car.  I make my jigs out of styrene - I tried doing it out of metal but
it was a slow process since I had to "cut some metal" - "test fit" - "cut some
more" to get the precise size I wanted.  In addition the mill I use to cut it 
ends up with a very sharp corner that I don't like the look of the bend and I
haven't - yet - figured out how to get it rounded over correctly (don't have
the right mill bit for that job).
  They make "bending jigs" for electronics - used mostly for bending resistors
to fit in old thru hole PC boards.  It would be great to make up something
similar to that ... in metal ... for bending grabs (etching the sizes on them
would be great!) ... but I haven't seen such a tool for bending grabs ... :-(

  The Kadee "spiking pliers" are essentially the same "wiring pliers" - but they
have a "T" ground into the tips to grab and hold the head of the spike. 
  Did you know you can also use spiking pliers for other stuff?  They are
great for grabbing the head of the rail if you want to coax one rail of flex to
move in a certain direction.
  You can also use the to hold a spike perpendicular to the pliers to drive spikes
using a 'side force' when there isn't space enough for the pliers to be in their
normal position (the only place I've had to do that is when spiking in a helix).
                                                                           - Jim in the PNW


Re: Pliers For Freight Car Builds

Jim Betz
 

Lester,

  Your three "most used pliers" are what I know as "wiring pliers".  I first tried a
pair of them when I was doing some punch down blocks (for a layout).  I
now have several pair and use them everywhere and for most things in my
model railroading.
  However, I do not use them for bending grabs and steps - I build a bending
jig to do those to get the size of the end product the same size so they look
right on a car.  I make my jigs out of styrene - I tried doing it out of metal but
it was a slow process since I had to "cut some metal" - "test fit" - "cut some
more" to get the precise size I wanted.  In addition the mill I use to cut it 
ends up with a very sharp corner that I don't like the look of the bend and I
haven't - yet - figured out how to get it rounded over correctly (don't have
the right mill bit for that job).
  They make "bending jigs" for electronics - used mostly for bending resistors
to fit in old thru hole PC boards.  It would be great to make up something
similar to that ... in metal ... for bending grabs (etching the sizes on them
would be great!) ... but I haven't seen such a tool for bending grabs ... :-(

  The Kadee "spiking pliers" are essentially the same "wiring pliers" - but they
have a "T" ground into the tips to grab and hold the head of the spike. 
  Did you know you can also use spiking pliers for other stuff?  They are
great for grabbing the head of the rail if you want to coax one rail of flex to
move in a certain direction.
  You can also use the to hold a spike perpendicular to the pliers to drive spikes
using a 'side force' when there isn't space enough for the pliers to be in their
normal position (the only place I've had to do that is when spiking in a helix).
                                                                           - Jim in the PNW


Re: Placards

Brian Stokes
 

Bob, you can still find both of those examples as stickers on modern day equipment. 



--
Brian Stokes
North Point Street in Proto:48


Re: Placards

Charlie Duckworth
 

Bob
I can answer having helped implement waybill systems on the Mopac in 1974.  The special instructions such as ‘do not hump’, ‘unload on right side’, etc were added to the computerized waybill and these notations were automatically added to switch lists and work orders.  Other Class 1’s were doing the same but I’m not sure of their timeframes but the mid to late 70’s would be a good guess.  
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Placards

Bob Chaparro
 

Placards

Hazardous materials placards with their UN numbers came in after the time frame for this group.

But was there a phase-out of other paper placards such as “Unload Other Side”, “Do Not Hump”, etc.?

At some point I’ve stop seeing these on photos of freight cars in years past.

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Pliers For Freight Car Builds

Lester Breuer
 

In recent months I have received emails requesting me to write a blog in which I show and describe the various pliers I use for bending wire grab irons, ladder rungs, uncoupling levers and adding details to a freight car I build.  If you are interested in the plier types I use to build a freight car.  Photos and writeup of the plier types are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling subjects or projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

 

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

 

Lester Breuer

 


Re: PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

Tony Thompson
 

Steve SANDIFER wrote:

The latest Santa Fe Painting and Lettering Guide says:
 
Reefer Orange (early)
0-43-87-0
PMS 151C

I just checked the Pantone 151-C chip against the PFE standard orange chip. They are quite close, so I guess Richard was right in saying that very thing. I would not have thought so from what I‘ve heard from most Santa Fe modelers over the years. 

Tony Thompson




Re: tank car domes

Tony Thompson
 

A rule of thumb is most true domes* had a capacity of roughly 2% of the tank body (and this volume is measured above top dead center of the tank body).
The rule specified 2% as the _minimum_ size. If you look at the 1955 tank car tariff 300-H, for example, you will see that most tank cars had well in excess of the 2% capacity. That was one of the many choices made by the buyer, not the builder.

Tony Thompson
tony@...


Re: tank car domes

D. Scott Chatfield
 

A rule of thumb is most true domes* had a capacity of roughly 2% of the tank body (and this volume is measured above top dead center of the tank body).  Now you mention earlier tanks seeming to have taller, narrower domes.  Those cars also tended to be smaller in capacity, so they were lower in overall height.  Once you get to the 10,000 gallon tanks, the dome height crowds the height limit for cars of the time, so you have to make it shorter and fatter.

And the problem of overall height kept the maximum size of general service tankcars to about 12,000 gallons until somebody figured out that instead of an expansion dome, just don't fill the car all the way up.  It only took them 70-odd years to figure that out.

Note that at least one tankcar builder (Pennsylvania Tank Car, IIRC) used a dome that was the same diameter as the tank body.  This does gain you some dome volume but at the expense of a weaker tank body.

Also keep in mind that some commodities did not need 2% domes.  Some acids come to mind, so they had skinnier domes.

*Only tankcars that carried liquids needed domes back in the day.  Tankcars for pressurized gases, even those liquified in the process (like propane/LNG), do not have domes.  However, they do have a dome-looking "bonnet" that protects the loading/unloading valves and safety vents.

Scott Chatfield 


Re: PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

Tim O'Connor
 


which IMO is a good reason to use a faded color that looks as if it is sunlit, under indoor lights :-)


On 6/27/2022 6:01 PM, Steve SANDIFER wrote:

I assume folks realize that ATSF changed their reefer color in 1956 from the yellow orange to a brighter orange. Here is a photo of the original yellow on an Intermountain ice reefer and the color drift card for the new color which Rapido is using on their RR-56 project.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2022 10:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

 

Very late in their careers, some of the Santa Fe's ice bunker reefers were painted the same orange usually associated with their later mechanical reefers.
Here is a Chard Walker photo.
Somewhere in my files I have a photo of two Santa Fe ice bunker reefers together, one orange and one yellow.

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railroad Citrus Industry Modeling Group

https://groups.io/g/RailroadCitrusIndustryModelingGroup

Attachments:


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

Nelson Moyer
 

The early version is the CMYK chip I posted earlier.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2022 6:03 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

 

The latest Santa Fe Painting and Lettering Guide says:

 

Reefer Orange (early)

0-43-87-0

PMS 151C

 

Reefer Orange (late) (after 1956)

0-60-94-0

PMS 158C

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2022 5:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

 

This reefer looks much the same color as those I’ve seen painted with Accupaint Harvest Yellow and the photos Bill Pardie posted. I’m going to color sample your reefer and see how it matches the other colors on my chip file.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2022 5:01 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

 

I assume folks realize that ATSF changed their reefer color in 1956 from the yellow orange to a brighter orange. Here is a photo of the original yellow on an Intermountain ice reefer and the color drift card for the new color which Rapido is using on their RR-56 project.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 


Re: PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

Steve SANDIFER
 

The latest Santa Fe Painting and Lettering Guide says:

 

Reefer Orange (early)

0-43-87-0

PMS 151C

 

Reefer Orange (late) (after 1956)

0-60-94-0

PMS 158C

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2022 5:24 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

 

This reefer looks much the same color as those I’ve seen painted with Accupaint Harvest Yellow and the photos Bill Pardie posted. I’m going to color sample your reefer and see how it matches the other colors on my chip file.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2022 5:01 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

 

I assume folks realize that ATSF changed their reefer color in 1956 from the yellow orange to a brighter orange. Here is a photo of the original yellow on an Intermountain ice reefer and the color drift card for the new color which Rapido is using on their RR-56 project.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 


Re: PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

Nelson Moyer
 

This reefer looks much the same color as those I’ve seen painted with Accupaint Harvest Yellow and the photos Bill Pardie posted. I’m going to color sample your reefer and see how it matches the other colors on my chip file.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve SANDIFER
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2022 5:01 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

 

I assume folks realize that ATSF changed their reefer color in 1956 from the yellow orange to a brighter orange. Here is a photo of the original yellow on an Intermountain ice reefer and the color drift card for the new color which Rapido is using on their RR-56 project.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 


Re: PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

Allan Smith
 


Attached are some photos I took of ATSF reefers in a field south of Amarillo in 2009. Notice the difference between the sides and the doors.

Al Smith
Sonora CA
On Monday, June 27, 2022 at 03:01:22 PM PDT, Steve SANDIFER <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:


I assume folks realize that ATSF changed their reefer color in 1956 from the yellow orange to a brighter orange. Here is a photo of the original yellow on an Intermountain ice reefer and the color drift card for the new color which Rapido is using on their RR-56 project.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2022 10:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

 

Very late in their careers, some of the Santa Fe's ice bunker reefers were painted the same orange usually associated with their later mechanical reefers.
Here is a Chard Walker photo.
Somewhere in my files I have a photo of two Santa Fe ice bunker reefers together, one orange and one yellow.

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railroad Citrus Industry Modeling Group

https://groups.io/g/RailroadCitrusIndustryModelingGroup


Re: New member checking in

Craig Wilson
 

The car ferry manifests from 1971 show very few cars with BN reporting marks and lots of the predecessor roads (GN, NP, CBQ).  The 1975 manifests list a lot more cars witn BN reporting marks as would be expected.  Lumber in boxcars and on bulkhead flatcars  was a common commodity.  Also Western Fruit Express insulated boxcars and mech reefers were common too.  Note that eastbound traffic was almost double that of westbound cars.
Craig Wilson


Re: PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

Steve SANDIFER
 

I assume folks realize that ATSF changed their reefer color in 1956 from the yellow orange to a brighter orange. Here is a photo of the original yellow on an Intermountain ice reefer and the color drift card for the new color which Rapido is using on their RR-56 project.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2022 10:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

 

Very late in their careers, some of the Santa Fe's ice bunker reefers were painted the same orange usually associated with their later mechanical reefers.
Here is a Chard Walker photo.
Somewhere in my files I have a photo of two Santa Fe ice bunker reefers together, one orange and one yellow.

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railroad Citrus Industry Modeling Group

https://groups.io/g/RailroadCitrusIndustryModelingGroup


Re: PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

Nelson Moyer
 

I didn’t get into model railroading until after Accupaint went away, so I don’t have any point of comparison. I’ve pretty much settled on four of the fade colors on the attachment I posted earlier. If anyone wants to look at the dots and offer suggestions, I’m open to change.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2022 4:00 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] PFE VS SANTA FE ORANGE

 

Nelson

I have only used Accupaint MEC Harvest Yellow so I can't vouch for any of the others.
Accupaint never varies, in my experiences with it.

To me, the color looks like SFRD color that has faded a bit. For a brand new car, I might
add something like a few drops of CN orange (the really bright orange) and maybe a drop
or two of a red color.

When I painted PFE, I mixed colors to match the plates in the PFE book, and I do my mixing
under 300W (LED equivalent) 5000K lamps. :-D

Tim O'Connor


 


Re: Westerfield USRA SS Ann Arbor boxcar

Craig Wilson
 

Lettering practices at the time the AA single sheath cars were built were based on Wabash drawings, so yes.  That said there were some minor variations in placement of the lettering, the 14-inch "ANN ARBOR" roadname in particular, between the different builder's cars.  Note that the post-WW2 steel boxcars were built with essentially the paint same scheme and the Ann Arbor "pennant" herald did not appear until after 1950.

Craig Wilson

3381 - 3400 of 196865