Date   

Re: SOME FINAL THOUGHTS ON SANTGA FE REFERS AND COLORS

Tim O'Connor
 


I have about 4 dozen C&BT Santa Fe reefer kits... was planning to sell them
off for $5 a kit. You're right that the bodies and ends are excellent -- and C&BT
did many body variants found on the prototype cars.


On 6/29/2022 8:55 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:



I have come to realize over the past few days that everyone on this list has not pursued the model railroading hobby from college to the present day as have I.  There were many good and accurate comments on the Santa Fe refers and colors in recent posts.  I hope to add a little history and forgotten references in my following comments.

There was much excitement in the railroading community when CB&T released their Santa  Fe Refer kits. The excitement quickly diminished when some major flaws were detected.These flaws were primarily in the area of the roof and oversized details.Actually the body and the pre painted sides were quite good.
Thjis event was quickly followed by an article in the  Third Quarter 1992 Santa Fe Modeler publication by Jay Miller in which he took the kit through three separate builds. The first involved building the basic kit.  The second covered making basic adjustments and the third doing a fairly well detailed car.

The April 1994 issue of Mainline Modele rcontained a super article by JimTeese again Using gthe CB&T car and doing four versions.

The Nvember 1994 RailModel Journal magazinecarried a two part article by Richard Hendrickson.  The first part covered ther prototype. The second was a constgruction article on the CB&T kit.  Again three different versions were produced. It is interesting to note that in this article Richardd claimed that “SFRD yellow-orange was about the same color thst wass uswed on PFEcars, which was about the same as Southern Pacific’s “Daylight Orange”. I guess we all evolve and gain mofre knowledge with time.



All of the above articles contained a wealth of prototype and Model photos.  A short time later the Longs / Intermountain car ap[peared on gthe market. I cannot e too criticle here as my working life was with Longs Drug Stores. This pfretty much render gthe CB&T cars obsolete.Ted Culotta’s Essential Freighe Car series covered sev eral versions of Santa Fe refers in the April 1993 issue.  MY cope is not handy so I don’;t rfecall if color was addressed.  Ted also did a piece on PFE refers in one of the other articles.

While there is some work involved, building acceptable CB&T cars is within the skill level of moston thisl list. They can b e had for a song.

Bill Pardie
 

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Hide Cars - perhaps not the last wood, however....

Charlie Duckworth
 

I recall when I was working once a boxcar was loaded with hides it was no longer deemed fit for any other service and was the lowest class of cars. 
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Hide Cars - perhaps not the last wood, however....

Bob Chaparro
 

Malcolm Laughlin wrote in the Ry-Ops-Industrial SIG group:

“Here's an excerpt from Car Service Rule 18 in a 1959 RER

"(A) Box cars classed as suitable for grain loading or better or refrigerator cars must not be loaded with any of the contaminating commodities listed below.....

1. Animal products:

  (a) Hides, Pelts or Skins,

  (b) Glue Stock

......(c)....(f)....

  (g) Tallow.

2. Copra

3. fish.........

...

6. Asphalt.......

7. Creosote.....

8. Lamp black, etc.

9. Poisonous.....

In the 50's and 60's, it was normal for all empty box cars needed for loading in the same terminal area to be switched to the cleaning track after being pulled empty from an industry.  Cleaning was a clerks union job and in Account 401 of the operating budget of the terminal superintendent or trainmaster.”

++++

In 1915 Rule 18 was much more general:

“Car Service Rule 18 provides that "Empty cars containing refuse must not be offered in interchange.

If the delivering line fails to remove such refuse, the receiving line may do so at the expense of the delivering line, and in such case must promptly advise the delivering line of its action."

Bob Chaparro

Moderator

Railway Bull Shippers Group

https://groups.io/g/RailwayBullShippersGroup


Southwest Scale Productions Door Restock

Jeff Helm
 

Dan Hall of Southwest Scale Productions has recently restocked his selection of finely molded styrene box car doors.  Most are available, including the 4-6-6 Youngstown part 612.  

Website is http://www.southwestscale.com/main.sc  

Dan asked that I advise to disregard the out of stock notation for the 612s, and until the page is made, The 671 7-panel Superior door with lower top panel for GN & SP 10’ IH cars is not shown and will have to be ordered under a different part number, and then an email sent to dhallfsm@... , changing that part to the 671. 

The shopping cart function does not work well, so contacting Dan via email may be best.  He was very responsive and helpful.

No connection, just a happy customer.

 

--
Cheers

Jeff Helm
The Olympic Peninsula Branch
https://olympicpeninsulabranch.blogspot.com/


Re: Lettering removal proto 2000 hoppers

Doug Forbes
 

Jim, thanks for the suggestion. As you said, I applied 91% Isopropyl alcohol and let it set for a minute keeping it wet. I then used a wood toothpick and scraped. It worked great. Here is a finished photo. 

Thanks!
Doug


Re: Globe tank cars

Richard Townsend
 

I’ve got five or six of them. A couple of 3 compartment cars, maybe one more, a couple of single compartment cars, and I think I have a two compartment kit down there, too.


Globe tank cars

 

Does anyone collect Globe tank cars anymore?  Globe made some nice cars that Irv Athearn never produced.  I am thinking of the two-dome tank cars.  Globe used pot metal parts, though, that frequently deteriorate.  I have a couple of the two-dome cars.  Just wondering.


Hide Cars - perhaps not the last wood, however....

np328
 

       As I continue to scan and recycle old paper, I found this single page item that is attached. Dating to 1950, it covers a goodly amount of the membership I would believe. 
To all of you that fill out waybills, may this help. It is a directive effective as stated, to January 1, 1950 and does cover more than hides.  
I seem to recall an earlier inquiry a few weeks ago on this topic.  
Found in the NP Corporate records at the Minnesota Historical Society, however not just topical to the Northern Pacific, but all US railroads. 
I've talked with the MNHS prior and on pages like this, no copyright permissions needed. 
                                                                                                            Feel free to copy and save the document.     James Dick   Roseville, MN 


Re: Easy grab iron bending jig

Thomas Evans
 

I've used the same bending jig as Dennis for years except that mine is brass since I thought it would be more durable.
I also use a length of appropriate thickness material (strip wood or styrene) to space out the grabs from the side of the car when gluing them on.
That needs to be somewhat narrower than the length of the grab so as not to glue it to the car side!

Tom E.


Re: SOME FINAL THOUGHTS ON SANTGA FE REFERS AND COLORS

Tom Madden
 

Ted's Essential Freight Cars article on SFRD reefers is #33 and was polished in the April 2006 issue of RMC, page 92. Most of the article discusses the InterMountain/Longs Drug kit, but in the last two pages he discusses the soon-to-be-released Sunshine kits. He painted these MEC Harvest Yellow. 

Tom Madden


SOME FINAL THOUGHTS ON SANTGA FE REFERS AND COLORS

WILLIAM PARDIE
 



I have come to realize over the past few days that everyone on this list has not pursued the model railroading hobby from college to the present day as have I.  There were many good and accurate comments on the Santa Fe refers and colors in recent posts.  I hope to add a little history and forgotten references in my following comments.

There was much excitement in the railroading community when CB&T released their Santa  Fe Refer kits. The excitement quickly diminished when some major flaws were detected.These flaws were primarily in the area of the roof and oversized details.Actually the body and the pre painted sides were quite good.
Thjis event was quickly followed by an article in the  Third Quarter 1992 Santa Fe Modeler publication by Jay Miller in which he took the kit through three separate builds. The first involved building the basic kit.  The second covered making basic adjustments and the third doing a fairly well detailed car.

The April 1994 issue of Mainline Modele rcontained a super article by JimTeese again Using gthe CB&T car and doing four versions.

The Nvember 1994 RailModel Journal magazinecarried a two part article by Richard Hendrickson.  The first part covered ther prototype. The second was a constgruction article on the CB&T kit.  Again three different versions were produced. It is interesting to note that in this article Richardd claimed that “SFRD yellow-orange was about the same color thst wass uswed on PFEcars, which was about the same as Southern Pacific’s “Daylight Orange”. I guess we all evolve and gain mofre knowledge with time.



All of the above articles contained a wealth of prototype and Model photos.  A short time later the Longs / Intermountain car ap[peared on gthe market. I cannot e too criticle here as my working life was with Longs Drug Stores. This pfretty much render gthe CB&T cars obsolete.Ted Culotta’s Essential Freighe Car series covered sev eral versions of Santa Fe refers in the April 1993 issue.  MY cope is not handy so I don’;t rfecall if color was addressed.  Ted also did a piece on PFE refers in one of the other articles.

While there is some work involved, building acceptable CB&T cars is within the skill level of moston thisl list. They can b e had for a song.

Bill Pardie
 


Re: Easy grab iron bending jig

Eric Hansmann
 

I use a scrap of styrene novelty siding to bend grabs. I drill a hole in a groove the set distance from the side of the siding scrap. This was featured in a 2015 DesignBuildOp blog post.

http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/2015/08/06/simple-tools/

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Parker via groups.io
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2022 4:07 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Easy grab iron bending jig

 

This is the jig I use to bend grabs in a variety of lengths -- a simple carpenter's shim.  I usually bend the first leg with pliers to get a good crisp 90, then put the wire on the wedge and fold over the second bend, and then make final adjustments again with pliers..  The pencil marks indicate some prior usages, including times when I have needed to tweak the lengths slightly to match NBWs or ladder stiles on the car-body. 

For drop grabs, I just use that trick of a set of pliers with "stop" made from a piece of tape positioned on one jaw face.  This easily forms the downward bends to complete the grab.



--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Easy grab iron bending jig

Dave Parker
 

This is the jig I use to bend grabs in a variety of lengths -- a simple carpenter's shim.  I usually bend the first leg with pliers to get a good crisp 90, then put the wire on the wedge and fold over the second bend, and then make final adjustments again with pliers..  The pencil marks indicate some prior usages, including times when I have needed to tweak the lengths slightly to match NBWs or ladder stiles on the car-body. 

For drop grabs, I just use that trick of a set of pliers with "stop" made from a piece of tape positioned on one jaw face.  This easily forms the downward bends to complete the grab.



--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Easy grab iron bending jig

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

The easiest to make jig to bend consistent grab irons is simply a hole drilled in a length of .060 or .080 styrene strip. Drill a hole to fit the wire the width of the grab iron from the end of a strip that's long enough to hold easily. Place the end of the wire in the hole and bend it down flat on the strip, this is the first bend. Now bend it down over the  end of the strip, making sure the wire is at right angles to the end of the strip. The resulting grab will be slightly wide (by 1/2 the wire diameter). This may be acceptable, if not simply file a little off the end of the strip and bend another. A couple tries should nail it.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Pliers For Freight Car Builds

radiodial868
 

Lester, your plier box looks very much like mine, including many of the same versions.
I've been looking for fine round tip plier, so your info on the Xuron 488 is timely.
Thanks!
--
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: Pliers For Freight Car Builds

Kenneth Montero
 

Jim,

There are a ton of grab iron bending jigs in the commercial world. Here are some examples:



http://www.laserkit.com/laserkit.htm (American Model Builders - for a caboose)

Grandt Line used to make one for HOn3. Eastern Car Works included one for the P-70 coach.

Ken Montero






On 06/29/2022 10:20 AM Jim Betz <jimbetz@...> wrote:


Lester,

  Your three "most used pliers" are what I know as "wiring pliers".  I first tried a
pair of them when I was doing some punch down blocks (for a layout).  I
now have several pair and use them everywhere and for most things in my
model railroading.
  However, I do not use them for bending grabs and steps - I build a bending
jig to do those to get the size of the end product the same size so they look
right on a car.  I make my jigs out of styrene - I tried doing it out of metal but
it was a slow process since I had to "cut some metal" - "test fit" - "cut some
more" to get the precise size I wanted.  In addition the mill I use to cut it 
ends up with a very sharp corner that I don't like the look of the bend and I
haven't - yet - figured out how to get it rounded over correctly (don't have
the right mill bit for that job).
  They make "bending jigs" for electronics - used mostly for bending resistors
to fit in old thru hole PC boards.  It would be great to make up something
similar to that ... in metal ... for bending grabs (etching the sizes on them
would be great!) ... but I haven't seen such a tool for bending grabs ... :-(

  The Kadee "spiking pliers" are essentially the same "wiring pliers" - but they
have a "T" ground into the tips to grab and hold the head of the spike. 
  Did you know you can also use spiking pliers for other stuff?  They are
great for grabbing the head of the rail if you want to coax one rail of flex to
move in a certain direction.
  You can also use the to hold a spike perpendicular to the pliers to drive spikes
using a 'side force' when there isn't space enough for the pliers to be in their
normal position (the only place I've had to do that is when spiking in a helix).
                                                                           - Jim in the PNW


Re: Pliers For Freight Car Builds

Jim Betz
 

Lester,

  Your three "most used pliers" are what I know as "wiring pliers".  I first tried a
pair of them when I was doing some punch down blocks (for a layout).  I
now have several pair and use them everywhere and for most things in my
model railroading.
  However, I do not use them for bending grabs and steps - I build a bending
jig to do those to get the size of the end product the same size so they look
right on a car.  I make my jigs out of styrene - I tried doing it out of metal but
it was a slow process since I had to "cut some metal" - "test fit" - "cut some
more" to get the precise size I wanted.  In addition the mill I use to cut it 
ends up with a very sharp corner that I don't like the look of the bend and I
haven't - yet - figured out how to get it rounded over correctly (don't have
the right mill bit for that job).
  They make "bending jigs" for electronics - used mostly for bending resistors
to fit in old thru hole PC boards.  It would be great to make up something
similar to that ... in metal ... for bending grabs (etching the sizes on them
would be great!) ... but I haven't seen such a tool for bending grabs ... :-(

  The Kadee "spiking pliers" are essentially the same "wiring pliers" - but they
have a "T" ground into the tips to grab and hold the head of the spike. 
  Did you know you can also use spiking pliers for other stuff?  They are
great for grabbing the head of the rail if you want to coax one rail of flex to
move in a certain direction.
  You can also use the to hold a spike perpendicular to the pliers to drive spikes
using a 'side force' when there isn't space enough for the pliers to be in their
normal position (the only place I've had to do that is when spiking in a helix).
                                                                           - Jim in the PNW


Re: Placards

Brian Stokes
 

Bob, you can still find both of those examples as stickers on modern day equipment. 



--
Brian Stokes
North Point Street in Proto:48


Re: Placards

Charlie Duckworth
 

Bob
I can answer having helped implement waybill systems on the Mopac in 1974.  The special instructions such as ‘do not hump’, ‘unload on right side’, etc were added to the computerized waybill and these notations were automatically added to switch lists and work orders.  Other Class 1’s were doing the same but I’m not sure of their timeframes but the mid to late 70’s would be a good guess.  
--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Placards

Bob Chaparro
 

Placards

Hazardous materials placards with their UN numbers came in after the time frame for this group.

But was there a phase-out of other paper placards such as “Unload Other Side”, “Do Not Hump”, etc.?

At some point I’ve stop seeing these on photos of freight cars in years past.

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA

3321 - 3340 of 196818