Date   

PRR X25 was PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32

Bruce Smith
 

Eric,

Thanks for pointing out that this is an X25. The terminology "wrong way" door is outmoded and inaccurate. There is nothing "wrong" about a left opening door and in fact, it was quite common with the X23 also having a left opening door, along with many other cars of many other roads, so the term is not only unnecessarily pejorative, it is lacking in sufficient detail to identify the car class.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 5:47 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.
That's a great two-fer! A Pennsy X25 box car and a classic Autocar truck!

The X25 cars were the first steel-sheathed box cars for the Pennsy. Almost 10,000 were built between 1915 and 1919.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On 07/01/2022 4:25 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:


Thanks for the pointer.  I fund this (new to me) car:https://mohistory.org/collections/item/P0403-12111-03-4a?fullscreen=1 


Re: Northern Pacific Tankage Boxcar

np328
 

Yes Bruce, I fully understand what you posted.   
Though I think much of what you reason with is in the eye of the beholder. 

As an NP historian, the 48000 and 49000 of NP cars are in fact, fairly well documented in photos. 
And changes in 1969 - are as others have wrote here prior, have - yet to happen - as far as this list is concerned. 
And as Hudson points out - there is no photo link. 
And all the included text is long into the future from this lists POV.   

 Of "unusual cars built after 1960 but similar to earlier types for which little or no photos exist", see post # 58 from the final word on all, Mike Brock.
From post # 58, if a reason can be tendered why the original post affects cars - in the 1960 era and prior, it is indeed open to discussion. 

This is not the first time that postings that belong on the BBFCL have crept in here and no doubt will not be the last. 
                                                                                                                                                                                                       James Dick - Roseville, MN 


Off list contact for Ray Breyer

Robert kirkham
 

Hi Ray - was wanting to ask a question about one of your articles on the Design Build Op blog. Can you send your email address to rdkirkham at live dot ca?

Rob


Re: Northern Pacific Tankage Boxcar

Bruce Hendrick
 

Many freight cars active in the pre-1960 domain of this group may have been rarely photographed before that cutoff date. Photographs of such cars taken at a later date are of great value to members of this group, and may be the only photo record. The same can be said as to unusual cars built after 1960 but similar to earlier types for which little or no photos exist. 

Bruce Hendrick


Re: Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32

Jack Mullen
 

On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 02:19 PM, Dave Parker wrote:
IMO, the NEACX stencil is some sort of "typo" at the paint shop.  The reporting mark is consistently NEAX from 1934 to 1940 (at least).  I can't come up with another explanation.
It does appear that somebody was a bit unclear on the concept.  But the thirties seem to be a period of transition to more strict compliance with use of assigned marks.

In the 7-34 ORER, car 32 is listed individually as an 8000 gal, 80,000 lb car.  By 7/35, the exact gallonage is given as 8170 (more reminiscent of a tariff listing!), but the weight capacity is listed as 55,600 lbs -- a real oddity for a tank car.  This is replicated in a 10-37 listing, but by 1-40 these figures are given as 8170 and 80,000.  I hesitate to speculate on what might have caused these unusual listing.
Common industrial alcohols have specific gravities around 0.79-0.80. 55,600 lbs is a plausible weight of 8179 gallons of an alcohol close to 90% concentration. 
...
Not sure about modeling the tank with a P2000 Type 21.  
I agree that this is a 1928 built tank, likely AC&F.  To my eye, the tank proportions look like an 8k type 27 would suit very well. I'm not sure about the frame i.d. or what would be a good option in HO.  The prototype appears to have cast tank cradles, fwiw.

Jack Mullen


Re: Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32

Ed Hawkins
 



On Jul 1, 2022, at 4:19 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab@...> wrote:

Assuming the frame was built in 1912, it is obviously a new tank -- the double rivets alone date it as 1917+, and the ICC 103 stencil alone suggests 1927+.   But I think the stencils are sufficiently legible:  the tank was built in 1928 by ACF, and the pressure tested at that time.  In 1-34, the safety valves were test by ?? in Everett, the car was light-weighted, and I believe painted (thus the 1-34 stencil under EVERETT).

Dave and others interested,

In going thru the ACF photos and records, I cannot find a lot number for NEACX 32. Because of this I surmise the car was purchased 2nd-hand.

Interestingly, NEAX 32 appears in ACF records as lot no. 1778 with the bill of materials denoting the car was the former MCHX 32. A new ACF builder photo taken 2/16/38 shows the original tank built 6-8-28, now stenciled as ICC-103 instead of ARA III. The underframe that in all likelihood was an ACF Type 21 was upgraded to include an Ajax hand brake, AB brakes, and what I believe are AAR double-truss trucks. Placard locations on the sides were moved.

Incidentally, I’m fairly sure that MCHX 32 was not bought as a new ACF Type 27 tank car as I can find no such original order for the Merrimac Chemical Co. The only 8,000-gallon ACF tank cars I’ve found with the same 6-28 build date were for The Rossville Company (RVX 111-115) of Lawrenceville, Indiana. However, these 4 cars built in lot 680 came on Type 28 underframes. These cars also did not come with arch bar trucks. So I don’t believe RVX 111-115 could be the origin of MCHX 32, NEACX 32 & the later NEAX 32.

Attached is a scan of NEAX 32 from ACF lot 1778 with the ACF builder photo taken after it received the upgrades. The gallon capacity stencils denote 8173. 

Paint specs for NEAX 32: Red - center band, dome, tank heads; aluminum - balance of upper portion of tank; black - lower portion of tank, underframe, trucks, AB brake parts, ladders, grabs, handrail, side platforms, grabs, and hand brake. Black stencils on aluminum, white stencils on black and red. 

The National Museum of Transportation has a general arrangement drawing of NEAX 32, drawing no. 3149226.

The New England Alcohol Co. continued to be listed from the early 1930s thru at least 7/49. The 4/51 ORER no longer listed the company.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins







Re: Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32

Dennis Storzek <dennis@...>
 

On Fri, Jul 1, 2022 at 03:40 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:
I have seen photos of workmen hand-painting to cover the stencil gaps.
And the sheet metal stencils used in production painting of freightcars often had "stencil bars" made of wire, so the paint flowed around them naturally.

Dennis Storzek


Re: PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32

Eric Hansmann
 

That's a great two-fer! A Pennsy X25 box car and a classic Autocar truck!

The X25 cars were the first steel-sheathed box cars for the Pennsy. Almost 10,000 were built between 1915 and 1919.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On 07/01/2022 4:25 PM Robert kirkham <rdkirkham@...> wrote:


Thanks for the pointer.  I fund this (new to me) car:https://mohistory.org/collections/item/P0403-12111-03-4a?fullscreen=1 


Re: Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32

Tony Thompson
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

Since freight cars were lettered almost exclusively using stencils during this period, I'm puzzled by your puzzlement. Is it the fact that the stencil gaps were not painted over? There are plenty of examples of that in the freight car fleet, although it certainly wasn't super common. A number of the better decals available have options where the stencil gaps are visible.

I have seen photos of workmen hand-painting to cover the stencil gaps.

Tony Thompson





Re: Northern Pacific Tankage Boxcar

np328
 

Given that the face page of this site lists the era covered here as and I am copying and pasting it:
"The purpose of this list is to discuss all aspects of North American freight cars of the steam era [1900-1960] ",
by what reasoning do people feel entitled to go outside of the era time frame?         
I cannot believe that I am the only member here who feels that way. 
                                            Moderators?                                                                                                                                              James Dick - Roseville, MN 


PRR "wrong-way" door car - Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32

Robert kirkham
 

Thanks for the pointer.  I fund this (new to me) car:https://mohistory.org/collections/item/P0403-12111-03-4a?fullscreen=1 






On Jul 1, 2022, at 12:09 PM, Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:

All-
Truncate the link to https://mohistory.org/collections/ and search all collections.  Found a few CB&Q  items searching on “Burlington” and there are many more under the more generic “Railroad”.
Charlie Vlk
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Steve and Barb Hile
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 12:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
 
According to Ian Cranstone’s reporting marks list, New England Alcohol used NEAX reporting marks from 1935 to 1947.
 
In a 1938 ORER they had a whopping total of 7 cars and by 1945 it had climbed to 9!
 
Steve Hile
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 12:37 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
 

Cool photo ! The frame has a 1912 stencil but the tank appears to have a 1928 stencil.

I never knew a private reporting mark could be 5 letters. :-\

On 7/1/2022 1:16 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:
Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
Photo from the Missouri Historical Society:
Car built in 1912. Photo supposedly taken in the 1930s.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
 

-- 
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts



Re: Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32

Bruce Smith
 

Dave,

Since freight cars were lettered almost exclusively using stencils during this period, I'm puzzled by your puzzlement. Is it the fact that the stencil gaps were not painted over? There are plenty of examples of that in the freight car fleet, although it certainly wasn't super common. A number of the better decals available have options where the stencil gaps are visible.

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of David Soderblom <drs@...>
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 3:00 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32
 
CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

I thought it unusual that the lettering is in stencil.

Sent from my tricorder







Re: Virginian BX10 boxcar

Gary McMills
 

Nice work Paul.

I really like the subtle weathering effects you did and the decal work is great.

Gary McMills

Vicksburg Miss.


On 2022-07-01 11:02, Paul Doggett via groups.io wrote:

Hi Guys

I have just finished a Funaro and Camerlengo Virginian BX10 boxcar I used National scale car (old Speedwitch) decals, it’s an interesting car with its plate steel ends. The paint is a mix of Badger dark and light Tuscan, weathering was done with Railmatch weathering paints mixed with Railmatch matt varnish. Another interesting point is it’s internal height which is only 8’0” which can be seen when next to more modern cars.

Paul Doggett.      England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿






Re: Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32

Dave Parker
 

In the 7-34 ORER, NEA(C)X 32 is listed as one of 5 cars, all noted as "new additions".  There is no listing for the company in my 12-30 ORER, suggesting a new company (or at least fleet).

IMO, the NEACX stencil is some sort of "typo" at the paint shop.  The reporting mark is consistently NEAX from 1934 to 1940 (at least).  I can't come up with another explanation.

In the 7-34 ORER, car 32 is listed individually as an 8000 gal, 80,000 lb car.  By 7/35, the exact gallonage is given as 8170 (more reminiscent of a tariff listing!), but the weight capacity is listed as 55,600 lbs -- a real oddity for a tank car.  This is replicated in a 10-37 listing, but by 1-40 these figures are given as 8170 and 80,000.  I hesitate to speculate on what might have caused these unusual listings.

Assuming the frame was built in 1912, it is obviously a new tank -- the double rivets alone date it as 1917+, and the ICC 103 stencil alone suggests 1927+.   But I think the stencils are sufficiently legible:  the tank was built in 1928 by ACF, and the pressure tested at that time.  In 1-34, the safety valves were test by ?? in Everett, the car was light-weighted, and I believe painted (thus the 1-34 stencil under EVERETT).

Not sure about modeling the tank with a P2000 Type 21.  The dome looks bigger on this car, but I don't have my 1936 tariff with me to look it up.

BTW, a quick Google search suggests that one of this companies mainstay products was antifreeze, seemingly denatured ethanol.   A very quick Wiki-like search suggests that ethylene glycol did not really come into play until 1937.  I wonder how long NEAX stayed in business after that?

Fun car, even if it's a one-off.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Sold Re: FS: American Refrigerator Transit book (new)

Paul Krueger
 

The book has been sold.

Thank you,
Paul

Paul Krueger
Seattle, WA


Re: Built-Up Resin Kits

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Hi Tim:

I have intended to contact you thus week but lately it seems that when I get up on the morning I am already two hours behind.

I see that Dan Smith contacted you on the Intermountain roofs for the CB&T refers.  I emailed him this morning asking if he might gave a few.

In the past few years I have come to realize that I could never build all the kits that I have.  Yet I have rarely bought a kit that I didn't want.  Thus I have bought some built up models from modelers that I hold in high esteem and passed the kits on to friends on the mainland. 

That takes us to the Bill Welch collection.  I was actually casting a net this morning.  I has heard that Ted Culotts was named executor from Bill's estate  ( at least the railroad part).  Ted seems to be in his second "Dark Phase" so who knows what is happening.

I made my airline reservations for Collinsville last week.   United's website and I are ar two ends of tue spectrum but I got it done .  Several years ago I was charged twenty five times for my itinerary.   Rectifying a $35,000.00 airline bill was an adventure.

Stay safe my friend:

Bill



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Date: 7/1/22 9:05 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Built-Up Resin Kits


Bill Welch was a meticulous person and planned ahead so I have not asked because I just assume that
he gave them away or turned them over to someone else. His collection was extremely impressive by the
early 1990's - after he'd been modeling only for a few years - so I imagine the final collection was just
incredibly wonderful models. Wherever they ended up I hope they are well cared for. :-)

Tim O'Connor

On 7/1/2022 1:50 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:
The references to the sale of built up boxcars bought to mind a topic that I had almost forgotten.A reference was made to the work of quality modelers selling at a premium.
Bill Welch has ben a major player on the Prototype Community for over fifteen yearts.  What has become of his collection on his passing?  I hzave spoken to several members 
who were involved in the Memoial Tribute to Bill and they have no idea.  I had heard that some of his airplane models (Yes, he was into that as well) were sold at a prototype 
meet. There has, however, been no mention to my knowledge as to what has happened to his marvelous freight cars.

Does anyone have any information?

Bill Pardie 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photo: New England Alcohol Company Tank Car NEACX 32

David Soderblom
 

I thought it unusual that the lettering is in stencil.

Sent from my tricorder


Re: Photo: Monsanto Tank Car MONX 901

akerboomk
 

And only 2 straps (plus center anchor & bolster pads)...
--
Ken Akerboom


Re: Photo: Monsanto Tank Car MONX 901

Richard Townsend
 

With looking it up, 8071 gallons. <VBG>

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Fri, Jul 1, 2022 12:18 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Monsanto Tank Car MONX 901

Bob Chaparro  wrote:

Photo: Monsanto Tank Car MONX 901
Photo from the Missouri Historical Society:
Taken in 1932 in Saint Clair County, Sauget, Illinois.

And without looking it up, you know it’s not a large car because the trucks look big, probably 8000 gals. or less.

Tony Thompson


Re: Built-Up Resin Kits

Bruce Smith
 

Ted was selling Bill’s unbuilt kits at Cocoa… bought a few myself.

Regards,

Bruce Smith

Auburn, AL

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Eric Hansmann <eric@...>
Reply-To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:33 PM
To: "main@RealSTMFC.groups.io" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [RealSTMFC] Built-Up Resin Kits

 

CAUTION: Email Originated Outside of Auburn.

I had thought there was a mention of Bill Welch models being sold by Ted Culotta at Prototype Rails in Cocoa Beach. But the message is not appearing in a search of this or a couple other groups.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Friday, July 1, 2022 2:05 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Built-Up Resin Kits

 


Bill Welch was a meticulous person and planned ahead so I have not asked because I just assume that
he gave them away or turned them over to someone else. His collection was extremely impressive by the
early 1990's - after he'd been modeling only for a few years - so I imagine the final collection was just
incredibly wonderful models. Wherever they ended up I hope they are well cared for. :-)

Tim O'Connor

On 7/1/2022 1:50 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

The references to the sale of built up boxcars bought to mind a topic that I had almost forgotten.A reference was made to the work of quality modelers selling at a premium.

Bill Welch has ben a major player on the Prototype Community for over fifteen yearts.  What has become of his collection on his passing?  I hzave spoken to several members 

who were involved in the Memoial Tribute to Bill and they have no idea.  I had heard that some of his airplane models (Yes, he was into that as well) were sold at a prototype 

meet. There has, however, been no mention to my knowledge as to what has happened to his marvelous freight cars.

 

Does anyone have any information?

 

Bill Pardie 

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

1781 - 1800 of 195354