Date   

Re: Freight car ID Milwaukee hopper?

Charlie Duckworth
 

I was just pointing out a possible answer to Tim’s question. 

On Sat, Jul 2, 2022 at 10:01 PM Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock_at_comcast.net_Worth51@...> wrote:
1930 ARA 70t design? I believe that no prototype cars were built to this design. See M.M., Sept. 1987 for a drawing. I think your model could be a Bachmann product. Scott HaycockModeling Tarheel count
1930 ARA 70t design? I believe that no prototype cars were built to this design. See M.M., Sept. 1987 for a drawing. 

I think your model could be a Bachmann product.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 07/02/2022 8:46 PM Charlie Duckworth via groups.io <worth51=duck.com@groups.io> wrote:



--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.

--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Freight car ID Milwaukee hopper?

Scott H. Haycock
 

1930 ARA 70t design? I believe that no prototype cars were built to this design. See M.M., Sept. 1987 for a drawing. 

I think your model could be a Bachmann product.

Scott Haycock
Modeling Tarheel country in the Land of Enchantm
ent

On 07/02/2022 8:46 PM Charlie Duckworth via groups.io <worth51@...> wrote:



--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: Freight car ID Milwaukee hopper?

Charlie Duckworth
 


--
Charlie Duckworth 
Omaha, Ne.


Re: ATSF reefer colors

Scott
 

Interesting that it looks like they repainted the white Santa Fe logo but not the black.  Or the white really stood the test of time.

Scott McDonald 


Re: ATSF reefer colors

John Barry
 

Nelson, Andy,

Not so much on the "anything goes".  Note the reweigh date of 2-64 on the yellowish car in the '47 ship and travel scheme.  Then look at the orange car ahead and note the lack of the 3' herald above the reporting marks.  That would indicate a repaint in the '59 large circle cross scheme.  The base color changed to the more orange shade about that time.  And the patch on the yellowish car is in the new orange paint.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA


707-490-9696 






On Saturday, July 2, 2022 at 12:59:37 PM EDT, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:


Thanks for that photo, Andy. It supports the ‘anything goes’ argument. I color samples a number of prototype and model SFRD reefers and attached the RGB codes and color dots. They pretty much cover the spectrum from yellow to orange. I still haven’t decided which four to use on my reefers.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 10:30 AM
To: STMFC <realstmfc@groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] ATSF reefer colors

 

An interesting view of the differences in "Yellow/Orange"

-Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

 

 

Inline image


Re: Canadian Pacific Boxcar 230000 With Drop Doors

Robert kirkham
 

I don’t think the doors are wider Tim; maybe just an illusion from the camera.  The CPR car had a 6’ door opening.  Drawings are available for downloading on the CPHA on line library if you want to do a detailed comparison.

Rob
  

On Jul 2, 2022, at 3:11 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Rob

Yep, that's the model I was thinking of. Ends and roofs are easily replaced, but it looks like the CP
 car has wider doors than the USRA box, so that pretty much changes the side geometry.


On 7/2/2022 6:06 PM, Robert kirkham wrote:
Hi Tim,

I don’t know the D&H prototype, but if this Tichy model is what you’re thinking of, then the answer would be “not really”.    
 
Here are the differences i am quickly aware of:
- incorrect roof (mostly just too thin at the edge),
- roof hatches (not on the CPR car)
- this model has 5/5/5 eds, not the CPR 7/8 ends.
- should be a stem winder brake (there may have been a few cars converted to power brakes before the hoppers were removed, but I doubt it).
- different design of hoppers - CPR cars had a pair of hoppers centred at the doors.  Photos from one of the Railroad magazines of the 1920s show this:

Rob

On Jul 2, 2022, at 1:45 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Is this identical to the Tichy D&H box car (USRA converted to cement service) ?

On 7/2/2022 2:21 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:
Canadian Pacific Boxcar 230000 With Drop Doors
Photos from the Old Time Trains website:
Description:
“230000 equipped with drop doors for grain loading. 60 ton 3098 cu.ft. built 7/1920 Fort William
Stencil wording below car number reads:
Assigned to special grain service only between Port Mc.Nicoll and West St.John.
NOTE: See 139002 (above) for 36 foot box similarly equipped and assigned. Also, 299690 (below) 40 foot double door.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: ATSF reefer colors

Gary Ray
 

When I had to tear apart my layout to move to TX, I had over 240 CRI90+ bulbs that had replaced all my CFL's.  They were 60 watt equivalent.  In a yard sale, I had a hard time finding someone to give me $20 for all of them.  Guess I should have sold them on the internet.

New layout will be lit by LED strips with covers.  Chose these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01A79H03S?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

I catch them on sale sometimes and almost have enough for my new layout.

Gary Ray

Azle, TX

 

On 7/2/2022 1:36 PM, Scott Kremer wrote:
In addition to the Kelvin rating there is also a CRI, Color Rendition Index, which gives you an idea of the accuracy of the color in question.  CRI’s for bulbs with a value of 90 or less will almost always result in a green cast to the light.  Today finding LED’s, bulbs not tubes,  with a CRI of 90 or higher is expensive.  In most cases a price of $14 to $18 per bulb for a 100 watt equivalent bulb.  That will change and there are some wattages and Kelvin temps with a price of less than $5 per bulb.  Still expensive.  I have not researched tubes but the same criteria applies.  Check out sources on the internet or, if you are lucky, check with your local lighting specialist store.

Scott Kremer

On Jul 2, 2022, at 1:54 PM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:

Just to add to the discussion, with my last layout, I tried using stock fluorescent bulbs to illuminate the layout room, using twin tube fixtures.  The light emitted gave everything a greenish look.  Not what I was after!  So, I tried some daylight (5000K) bulbs, and everything looked blue and none of the warmer colors (like rusty stuff) showed well.  So, I bought some 3500K warm bulbs and tried them.  Only the warm colors showed well, and I lost all the blues and blacks.  So, I installed one 3500K bulb with a 5000K bulb in the same fixture, and voila!  Close to the full spectrum of colors.

I now live in Texas, and was concerned about adding heat to my layout room (which is on he second floor - no basements here), and I wanted to duplicate the same style of lighting without the heat-producing fluorescents.  I found some 33500K and 5000K strip LED lights on Amazon, but had to devise a way of installing the strips side-by-side on moldings attached to the ceiling.  They work well, but I wish they provided a bit more light.

So, that's another factor in how you choose to color things on your layout.  PS, I try to paint and weather all my structures and rolling stock under the same lighting conditions as the layout room.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Canadian Pacific Boxcar 230000 With Drop Doors

Tim O'Connor
 

Rob

Yep, that's the model I was thinking of. Ends and roofs are easily replaced, but it looks like the CP
 car has wider doors than the USRA box, so that pretty much changes the side geometry.


On 7/2/2022 6:06 PM, Robert kirkham wrote:
Hi Tim,

I don’t know the D&H prototype, but if this Tichy model is what you’re thinking of, then the answer would be “not really”.    
 
Here are the differences i am quickly aware of:
- incorrect roof (mostly just too thin at the edge),
- roof hatches (not on the CPR car)
- this model has 5/5/5 eds, not the CPR 7/8 ends.
- should be a stem winder brake (there may have been a few cars converted to power brakes before the hoppers were removed, but I doubt it).
- different design of hoppers - CPR cars had a pair of hoppers centred at the doors.  Photos from one of the Railroad magazines of the 1920s show this:

Rob

On Jul 2, 2022, at 1:45 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Is this identical to the Tichy D&H box car (USRA converted to cement service) ?

On 7/2/2022 2:21 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:
Canadian Pacific Boxcar 230000 With Drop Doors
Photos from the Old Time Trains website:
Description:
“230000 equipped with drop doors for grain loading. 60 ton 3098 cu.ft. built 7/1920 Fort William
Stencil wording below car number reads:
Assigned to special grain service only between Port Mc.Nicoll and West St.John.
NOTE: See 139002 (above) for 36 foot box similarly equipped and assigned. Also, 299690 (below) 40 foot double door.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Canadian Pacific Boxcar 230000 With Drop Doors

Robert kirkham
 

Hi Tim,

I don’t know the D&H prototype, but if this Tichy model is what you’re thinking of, then the answer would be “not really”.    
 
Here are the differences i am quickly aware of:
- incorrect roof (mostly just too thin at the edge),
- roof hatches (not on the CPR car)
- this model has 5/5/5 eds, not the CPR 7/8 ends.
- should be a stem winder brake (there may have been a few cars converted to power brakes before the hoppers were removed, but I doubt it).
- different design of hoppers - CPR cars had a pair of hoppers centred at the doors.  Photos from one of the Railroad magazines of the 1920s show this:
 

Rob

On Jul 2, 2022, at 1:45 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Is this identical to the Tichy D&H box car (USRA converted to cement service) ?

On 7/2/2022 2:21 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:
Canadian Pacific Boxcar 230000 With Drop Doors
Photos from the Old Time Trains website:
Description:
“230000 equipped with drop doors for grain loading. 60 ton 3098 cu.ft. built 7/1920 Fort William
Stencil wording below car number reads:
Assigned to special grain service only between Port Mc.Nicoll and West St.John.
NOTE: See 139002 (above) for 36 foot box similarly equipped and assigned. Also, 299690 (below) 40 foot double door.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Photo: Coal Yard Scene (Undated)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Coal Yard Scene (Undated)

Photo from the Missouri Historical Society.

Nice assortment of truss rod boxcars.

Description:

Chouteau Avenue and Missouri Pacific Railroad. Vandeventer Coal Company Railroad Yard.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Canadian Pacific Boxcar 230000 With Drop Doors

Tim O'Connor
 


Is this identical to the Tichy D&H box car (USRA converted to cement service) ?

On 7/2/2022 2:21 PM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io wrote:

Canadian Pacific Boxcar 230000 With Drop Doors

Photos from the Old Time Trains website:

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/230000.jpg

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/230000_drop_door.jpg

Description:

“230000 equipped with drop doors for grain loading. 60 ton 3098 cu.ft. built 7/1920 Fort William

Stencil wording below car number reads:

Assigned to special grain service only between Port Mc.Nicoll and West St.John.

NOTE: See 139002 (above) for 36 foot box similarly equipped and assigned. Also, 299690 (below) 40 foot double door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Freight car ID

Tim O'Connor
 

Clark

Hopper could be IC.

The emblem on that box car appears to be tilted. Who used tilted emblems ?


On 7/2/2022 10:34 AM, Clark Propst via groups.io wrote:
Anymore have any "guesses" as to these freight cars?

My modeling guesses would be the Roundhouse hopper could be used to model the three bay hopper and the last car might be a AAR 1937 design, but can't name the RR from the emblem...

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: ATSF reefer colors

Steve SANDIFER
 

I used 5000K LED tubed with single end electrical connection. I got them from 1000bulb.com, 25 for $100.  Put pigtails on that one end and you have lightsabers which are useful for not only layout lighting but under layout troubleshooting.

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 2:33 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF reefer colors

 

I researches fluorescent tubes in 2013, looking for 5000 K and a high CRI. I attached a table of the results. Regrettably, the inexpensive tubes are disappearing, and I can no longer find them locally. I’ve decided to switch to LED tubes as the fluorescent tubes fail.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott Kremer
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 1:36 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF reefer colors

 

In addition to the Kelvin rating there is also a CRI, Color Rendition Index, which gives you an idea of the accuracy of the color in question.  CRI’s for bulbs with a value of 90 or less will almost always result in a green cast to the light.  Today finding LED’s, bulbs not tubes,  with a CRI of 90 or higher is expensive.  In most cases a price of $14 to $18 per bulb for a 100 watt equivalent bulb.  That will change and there are some wattages and Kelvin temps with a price of less than $5 per bulb.  Still expensive.  I have not researched tubes but the same criteria applies.  Check out sources on the internet or, if you are lucky, check with your local lighting specialist store.

 

Scott Kremer

 


Re: ATSF reefer colors

Nelson Moyer
 

I researches fluorescent tubes in 2013, looking for 5000 K and a high CRI. I attached a table of the results. Regrettably, the inexpensive tubes are disappearing, and I can no longer find them locally. I’ve decided to switch to LED tubes as the fluorescent tubes fail.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott Kremer
Sent: Saturday, July 2, 2022 1:36 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF reefer colors

 

In addition to the Kelvin rating there is also a CRI, Color Rendition Index, which gives you an idea of the accuracy of the color in question.  CRI’s for bulbs with a value of 90 or less will almost always result in a green cast to the light.  Today finding LED’s, bulbs not tubes,  with a CRI of 90 or higher is expensive.  In most cases a price of $14 to $18 per bulb for a 100 watt equivalent bulb.  That will change and there are some wattages and Kelvin temps with a price of less than $5 per bulb.  Still expensive.  I have not researched tubes but the same criteria applies.  Check out sources on the internet or, if you are lucky, check with your local lighting specialist store.

 

Scott Kremer

 


Re: Canadian Pacific Boxcar 230000 With Drop Doors

Robert kirkham
 

230000 is one of four lots of cars, as follows:

the more obvious spotting features that differentiate these from regular USRA cars:
- the roof is a different design - on a model, it is substantially thicker.
- 7/8 murphy ends (rather than 5/5/5)
- grain hopper doors and variation in underframe

Rob 



On Jul 2, 2022, at 11:21 AM, Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Canadian Pacific Boxcar 230000 With Drop Doors
Photos from the Old Time Trains website:
Description:
“230000 equipped with drop doors for grain loading. 60 ton 3098 cu.ft. built 7/1920 Fort William
Stencil wording below car number reads:
Assigned to special grain service only between Port Mc.Nicoll and West St.John.
NOTE: See 139002 (above) for 36 foot box similarly equipped and assigned. Also, 299690 (below) 40 foot double door.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: ATSF reefer colors

Scott Kremer
 

In addition to the Kelvin rating there is also a CRI, Color Rendition Index, which gives you an idea of the accuracy of the color in question.  CRI’s for bulbs with a value of 90 or less will almost always result in a green cast to the light.  Today finding LED’s, bulbs not tubes,  with a CRI of 90 or higher is expensive.  In most cases a price of $14 to $18 per bulb for a 100 watt equivalent bulb.  That will change and there are some wattages and Kelvin temps with a price of less than $5 per bulb.  Still expensive.  I have not researched tubes but the same criteria applies.  Check out sources on the internet or, if you are lucky, check with your local lighting specialist store.

Scott Kremer

On Jul 2, 2022, at 1:54 PM, Todd Sullivan via groups.io <sullivant41@...> wrote:

Just to add to the discussion, with my last layout, I tried using stock fluorescent bulbs to illuminate the layout room, using twin tube fixtures.  The light emitted gave everything a greenish look.  Not what I was after!  So, I tried some daylight (5000K) bulbs, and everything looked blue and none of the warmer colors (like rusty stuff) showed well.  So, I bought some 3500K warm bulbs and tried them.  Only the warm colors showed well, and I lost all the blues and blacks.  So, I installed one 3500K bulb with a 5000K bulb in the same fixture, and voila!  Close to the full spectrum of colors.

I now live in Texas, and was concerned about adding heat to my layout room (which is on he second floor - no basements here), and I wanted to duplicate the same style of lighting without the heat-producing fluorescents.  I found some 33500K and 5000K strip LED lights on Amazon, but had to devise a way of installing the strips side-by-side on moldings attached to the ceiling.  They work well, but I wish they provided a bit more light.

So, that's another factor in how you choose to color things on your layout.  PS, I try to paint and weather all my structures and rolling stock under the same lighting conditions as the layout room.

Todd Sullivan


Re: Freight car ID

Robert kirkham
 

Those are tough.  All i have are conjectured observations . . . 

Starting with the car ahead of the caboose, the roof line is obscured by a building in the distance; i’d guess it is peaked, not rounded.  Side sill tabs are evident along the bottom of the car side.   There appears to be writing on the car side to the right of the door - as well as a logo.  I think the logo is a tilted rectangle, lower side at the right (which rules out a number of RRs).  It's not diamond shaped (as on the Erie).  I see a straight outline along the top of the logo, so not a Wabash “flag".  To me, that seems to point to Milwaukee Road.   But I see no ribs in the side sheathing.  Zooming in on the car end, I think there are two panels.   

Moving forward a car, it looks to be 6 or more inches shorter. Its roof is also obscured by buildings in the distance.  But i think it's a peaked roof.  The significant shadow this side of the door confirms a boxcar.  It appears to have very square corners/sharp differences between sides and ends.   That could (but needn’t) indicate double sheathed siding.  Given the position of the top door track, i think there is a significant top fascia.   I think there is a hint of an exposed, inset side sill.  The logo looks somewhat round  - Damage in the negative obscures this a tiny bit - so it may not be precisely circular.  Seems the sides of the logo are less defined than the top and bottom.  I notice that the logo is placed mid height, rather than higher on the car side.    Could it be DT&I?  not sure about anyone else with mid-height logos, not sure when DT&I did that, its probably a later phenomena.    

I don’t know anything about hoppers (CPR used gons in my era).

The 4th car from the caboose has 5/5/5 Murphy ends, and a significant overhang of the sides over the sills, so i think a re-built USRA car.  Is that a pair of doors?    Lettering right of the door looks to be two words on top, a short word (maybe “&") below, and a third word below that. 

Not much to say here.

Rob   


On Jul 2, 2022, at 10:35 AM, Clark Propst via groups.io <cepropst@...> wrote:

Here's the rest of the photo. Even I know the first car, a Pennsy X31 something or other  ;  ))

I've also added a couple photos of the same train with an interesting flat cat behind the engine. If you look closely you'll see the ends of the car are painted with a brighter color for some purpose. No idea what RR that car is either. Again another Pennsy box car an X29 with 'buy war bonds' stenciling.
Clark Propst <Scan0142.jpg><Near Zearing 6-24-46 JH.jpg><LS M_StL 333 Roland Ia.jpg>


Canadian Pacific Boxcar 230000 With Drop Doors

Bob Chaparro
 

Canadian Pacific Boxcar 230000 With Drop Doors

Photos from the Old Time Trains website:

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/230000.jpg

http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_rolling/230000_drop_door.jpg

Description:

“230000 equipped with drop doors for grain loading. 60 ton 3098 cu.ft. built 7/1920 Fort William

Stencil wording below car number reads:

Assigned to special grain service only between Port Mc.Nicoll and West St.John.

NOTE: See 139002 (above) for 36 foot box similarly equipped and assigned. Also, 299690 (below) 40 foot double door.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: ATSF reefer colors

Tony Thompson
 

Andy Carlson  wrote:

An interesting view of the differences in "Yellow/Orange"

I don’t think it’s been mentioned yet, but both the PFE and SFRD orange faded toward yellow. There are lots of examples out there.

Tony Thompson




Re: ATSF reefer colors

Todd Sullivan
 

Just to add to the discussion, with my last layout, I tried using stock fluorescent bulbs to illuminate the layout room, using twin tube fixtures.  The light emitted gave everything a greenish look.  Not what I was after!  So, I tried some daylight (5000K) bulbs, and everything looked blue and none of the warmer colors (like rusty stuff) showed well.  So, I bought some 3500K warm bulbs and tried them.  Only the warm colors showed well, and I lost all the blues and blacks.  So, I installed one 3500K bulb with a 5000K bulb in the same fixture, and voila!  Close to the full spectrum of colors.

I now live in Texas, and was concerned about adding heat to my layout room (which is on he second floor - no basements here), and I wanted to duplicate the same style of lighting without the heat-producing fluorescents.  I found some 33500K and 5000K strip LED lights on Amazon, but had to devise a way of installing the strips side-by-side on moldings attached to the ceiling.  They work well, but I wish they provided a bit more light.

So, that's another factor in how you choose to color things on your layout.  PS, I try to paint and weather all my structures and rolling stock under the same lighting conditions as the layout room.

Todd Sullivan

2001 - 2020 of 195614