Date   

Re: M&STL Box Cars in Northern New England

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

The M&StL was a small railroad ran primarily through granger country,
serving four states, not just Iowa. But as others have said, there was
manufacturing and mining, along with the numerous agricultural products.
Many towns also received petroleum products, lumber, automobiles and
farm equipment and supplies and all household necessities.

The largest on line shipper was Decker & Sons Meat (a division of
Armour) in Mason City, Ia with over 5000 loads per year. Mason City also
had two large cement plant operations, plus feed mills, poultry packing
houses, lumber yards, etc. There was a large Pillsbury warehouse and
farm supply buildings. American Crystal Sugar had a large sugar beet
plant there, ever hear of Crystal Sugar? And several large Brick and
Tile factories.

Marshalltown, Ia is the home of Lenox Industries, maker of Lenox
furnaces, Air Conditioners, burners, etc. Also Marshalltown Trowel, the
premium in masonry tools. If you have masonry contractors in your area,
they probably are using Marshalltown Trowels. Diamond Paint and Varnish
was on line and Continental Can. There was also a Swift meat plant and
several foundries.

Fort Dodge, Ia was several large gypsum mines, supplies of
drywall/wallboard and plaster products. Plus meat packing and farm
equipment.

Des Moines, Ia had Meredith Publishing (Better Homes & Gardens)
Penn-Dixie cement, plus other shippers.

M&StL was of course HQ ed in Minneapolis. One large industry was
Minneapolis/Moline, make of tractors and other farm equipment. They did
the steal underframe castings for the M&StL Cabooses in 1942. Other
large industries in Minn include: Massey-Harris at Hopkins, MN make of
tractors, combines, etc.; Green Giant Co. (Jolley Green Giant canned
vegetables), etc.

In Southern Iowa and Illinois you had online coal mines. Plus numerous
sand and gravel operations and limestone quarries.

So you see the M&StL had need for boxcars and flats that could be
shipped almost anywhere in the country.

Iowa also home to Amana Refrigeration and Appliances in the Amana
Colonies (actually seven villages establish by a communal religious
communion who incorporated in 1932). Served by RI and MILW. Maytag in
Newton, RI. Frigidaire in Webster City. White Tractor Co. in Charles
City. Winnebago in Forest City. Blue Bird bus bodies in Mt. Pleasant,
CB&Q. John Deere in Waterloo, Dubuque, Ottumwa, Davenport, Ankeny.
Bettendorf Wheel in Bettendorf, Ia. Packing Plants included Hormel,
Armour, Swift, Rath, Dubuque, John Morrel, Decker & Sons, Oscar Meyer,
Needham, IBP, and many more I cannot remember. This is a small sampling,
but I think you get the idea. Factor in the grain and livestock
shipments and a lot of RR traffic originated in this state.

Doug Harding
Iowa Central Railroad
www.iowatelecom.net/~dharding/


Re: California Dispatch Lines Tankcar

Richard Hendrickson
 

Richard Wilkens wrote:

I'm trying to find information on California Dispatch Lines tankcar CDLX
222. I think the car was built by General American Tank Car in 5-29 or maybe
'28 but not sure. Would someone who has equipment register books from that
period look up and see when the car shows up and also when it drops off,
probably sometime in the mid 30's or so. I'm also looking for photos of
similar tank cars for CDL. This one was lettered on the side of the tank
near the top "CALIFORNIA" on the left side and "DISPATCH" on the right side
in about 12" tall letters with "SAN FRANCISCO" in smaller letters below
dispatch. In later years the car was sold to a petroleum company in Medford,
Oregon where it was painted silver with black lettering about 2' tall that
said "PETROLEUM" on the left side of tank and another name to the right
which might be "SUPPLY" or "SURPLUS" or something like that with smaller
lettering centered below that said "MEDFORD OREGON".

Also looking for general history of CDL, assuming it serviced the petroleum
industry.
CDLX 222-231 were listed in the 10/38 AND 1/40 ORERS but were gone by 7/43.
As they were class ARA II cars, they could not have been built later than
1917, and were 6,000 gals. nominal capacity. I can probably identify the
builder if you have a photo you can scan or photocopy.

California Despatch Line was a modest size regional tank car leasing
company headquartered in San Francisco with a fleet of 372 cars in 1943 and
about 400 cars in the early 1950s. They leased cars of all types but
specialized in glass lined cars used for bulk wine shipments and, after WW
II, in ICC-105 high pressure cars for liquified petroleum gas service.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Weathering with Polly Scale

ljack70117@...
 

That is my point. No mater what some one calls something, A rose by any other name is still a rose.
In the paint industry Acrylic paint is water base. If you have a container of paint that has the world acrylic on it and it thins with anything other than water then it is not acrylic. They have started calling other paint that has different hard pigments in it acrylic. But that is not the mainstream paint industry.
So never mind. Call it what ever you want.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 09:24 PM, newrail@sover.net wrote:

Quoting ljack70117@adelphia.net:

If water will not work for thiner then your paint is not acrylic. It is
some type of oil base which lacquers and enamels are part of. All these
thinners come come from crude oil except turpentine which comes from
the pine tree which is not used much as they have subturpes (also
called paint thinner) that come from oil. So you have water base and
oil base paints.
And that was the whole point of my earlier question, Larry. If the paint
really is "acrylic" and is really water based why does one need something
other than water for a thinner? I don't use this stuff so I don't know but
it just seems that using something other than water to thin a water based
paint is creating problems instead of solving them. This is especially true
for those who cannot work with solvent based paints for medical reasons such
as one other member mentioned. Perhaps they are not truly acrylic. I'll ask
my fine arts major daughter when she returns tomorrow and see if she can
shed any light on this.

Take care, Don Valentine


Re: M&SL Box Cars in Northern New England

tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Clark Propst wrote:

The M&StL had a branch to Newton.
Clark Propst
PS there's more posts on this list about the M&StL than on the M&StL
list!
Keeping the "debate" on topic, most of the boxcars loaded by industries
on the M&SL used foreign boxcars - I estimate over 95% of them in the
late 1940's.

In the same breath, most of M&SL's boxcars carried loads originated on
foreign roads.

In conclusion in the late 1940's, the ownership of boxcars were
contributions to the national fleet with the same effect as the RAILBOX
cars were used in the 1970's.

Tim Gilbert


ADMIN...Paint

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

OK, guys...this group is about steam era frt cars...not paint. If you want
to talk about painting or weathering steam era frt cars that's fine. If you
want to talk about the derivation of acrylic, oil or any other kind of
paint, I suggest doing it off line or go to a paint forum. I have no problem
or issue with asking about thinning difficulties with Polyscale
paint....assuming the poster is interested in painting a steam era frt car.
That question has been answered fairly well. In fact, I'll add that I thin
Polyscale with 71% alcohol [ not 90% which I understand doesn't work as
well ]. I'll further state that one of the advantages of using Ployscale in
Florida is that, with the high humidity here, it is highly likely that
you'll pop out some water no matter how many traps you use. With Polyscale,
no problem. Just keep spraying. I'll also add that I don't spray with highly
thinned Polyscale...tending to use washes instead which you can do with
water.

OK...someone want to talk about issues with painting frt cars? Go ahead.
Want to talk about other aspects of paint? Don't..it's risky.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: M&SL Box Cars in Northern New England

Joe Binish <joebinish@...>
 

Hey, This is great! I've always wanted an M&StL discussion on the
STMFClist! As a fan of the Louie(sorry Clark), I must remind you of the
Minneapolis-Moline plant in Hopkins, MN.

----- Original Message -----
From: <lodged@mindspring.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: M&SL Box Cars in Northern New England


How about Lenox Furnace and Fisher Governor in Marshalltown? Box cars
for
sure.

Don Lodge

<html><body>


<tt>
Quoting ljack70117@adelphia.net:<BR>
<BR>
How about Amana. Weren't they in Iowa. Davenport locomotive Co. A
lot <BR>
of their products were shipped out on flat cars and in box cars.<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Amana products are made in Iowa, Larry, but
apparently not on the <BR>
M&amp;StL...which is also an issue for Davenport. Expect we'll have to be
happy<BR>
with a boxcar load of grain.<BR>
<BR>
Take care, Don Valentine<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Re: Weathering with Polly Scale

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

(snip from Don Valentine)

If the paint really is "acrylic" and is really water based why does one need something
other than water for a thinner?

Since I started this let me respond. I use distilled water to thin Polly Scale when I am applying it with an airbrush as primer, base coat, or finish coat.

However, for weathering purposes, I have found that using water to thin the paint for airbrushing results in far too much water striking the surface and I end up with puddles in the spray booth. Thus, using a solvent, such as isopropel alcohol or the Polly Scale Air Brush thinner, should result in the solvent evaporating much quicker than the water and leaving the type of weathering that I should be able to achieve with an airbrush, and like I could obtain with Floquil.

I use a spray booth for all airbrush painting.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD


Re: Fw: Re: Weathering with Polly Scale

Don Valentine
 

A good respirator in conjunction with the spray booth isn't a bad
investment either, nor are they expensive.

Don Valentine


Quoting ljack70117@adelphia.net:

Whether you use oil base or water base you should have a spray booth
that will remove any vapors in the air and prevent you from inhaling
any fumes. Water base will do as much damage to your lungs as an oil
base will.


what does one do when there lungs will not allow them to
use Scalecoat and Accu-Paint due to the vapors. I for one have to
stay
with water base paints whether or not I like it but I am open to any
good
subjection's that you or anyone mite have OK.

John "Hoot" Gibson


Re: M&SL Box Cars in Northern New England

lodged@...
 

How about Lenox Furnace and Fisher Governor in Marshalltown? Box cars for
sure.

Don Lodge

<html><body>


<tt>
Quoting ljack70117@adelphia.net:<BR>
<BR>
How about Amana. Weren't they in Iowa. Davenport locomotive Co. A lot <BR>
of their products were shipped out on flat cars and in box cars.<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Amana products are made in Iowa, Larry, but
apparently not on the <BR>
M&amp;StL...which is also an issue for Davenport. Expect we'll have to be
happy<BR>
with a boxcar load of grain.<BR>
<BR>
Take care, Don Valentine<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>
<BR>
</tt>

<br>

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Re: M&SL Box Cars in Northern New England

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

The M&StL had a branch to Newton.
Clark Propst
PS there's more posts on this list about the M&StL than on the M&StL list!

"G. Walls" wrote:

Hi Folks,
Along with Maytag, Newton,Iowa.
And just for information, The Amana Colonies,(Amana Industries)
was/is a commune of which there are four small towns. Each one
provides something for the whole.
Griffen Foundry and Pipe, Blue Bell school buses, John Deere,
Catapiler (Heavy Equipment) Motorhomes. Besides being the number one
state in corn and hog production.

George Walls
Treynor, Iowa

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, ljack70117@a... wrote:
How about Amana. Weren't they in Iowa. Davenport locomotive Co. A
lot
of their products were shipped out on flat cars and in box cars.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 05:21 PM, newrail@s... wrote:

Quoting lodged@m...:

There was, and is, a lot of manufacturing done in Iowa. Farm
equipment
as
well as consumer goods. Not just corn and hogs and, yes, sheep.

Don Lodge


Having raised Polled Dorsets for twenty years I'm well
aware of
the
sheep, Don, due to the fact that the records for the breed were
maintained
by a woman in Hudson, Iowa for many years until the late 1990's.
The
GSC flats
are too late for someone with a 12-31-1948 cutoff date but there
must
be some
boxcar load other than grain. Guess that can do if need be,
however.

Don Valentine

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Re: Weathering with Polly Scale

Don Valentine
 

Quoting ljack70117@adelphia.net:

If water will not work for thiner then your paint is not acrylic. It is
some type of oil base which lacquers and enamels are part of. All these
thinners come come from crude oil except turpentine which comes from
the pine tree which is not used much as they have subturpes (also
called paint thinner) that come from oil. So you have water base and
oil base paints.
And that was the whole point of my earlier question, Larry. If the paint
really is "acrylic" and is really water based why does one need something
other than water for a thinner? I don't use this stuff so I don't know but
it just seems that using something other than water to thin a water based
paint is creating problems instead of solving them. This is especially true
for those who cannot work with solvent based paints for medical reasons such
as one other member mentioned. Perhaps they are not truly acrylic. I'll ask
my fine arts major daughter when she returns tomorrow and see if she can
shed any light on this.

Take care, Don Valentine


Re: M&SL Box Cars in Northern New England

ron christensen
 

Don't forget the hides shipped from Iowa to the tanneries. M&StL had
cars marked for there use.
Ron Christensen

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "G. Walls" <glwalls@f...> wrote:
Hi Folks,
Along with Maytag, Newton,Iowa.
And just for information, The Amana Colonies,(Amana Industries)
was/is a commune of which there are four small towns. Each one
provides something for the whole.
Griffen Foundry and Pipe, Blue Bell school buses, John Deere,
Catapiler (Heavy Equipment) Motorhomes. Besides being the number one
state in corn and hog production.

George Walls
Treynor, Iowa



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, ljack70117@a... wrote:
How about Amana. Weren't they in Iowa. Davenport locomotive Co. A
lot
of their products were shipped out on flat cars and in box cars.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 05:21 PM, newrail@s... wrote:

Quoting lodged@m...:

There was, and is, a lot of manufacturing done in Iowa. Farm
equipment
as
well as consumer goods. Not just corn and hogs and, yes,
sheep.

Don Lodge


Having raised Polled Dorsets for twenty years I'm well
aware of
the
sheep, Don, due to the fact that the records for the breed were
maintained
by a woman in Hudson, Iowa for many years until the late 1990's.
The
GSC flats
are too late for someone with a 12-31-1948 cutoff date but there
must
be some
boxcar load other than grain. Guess that can do if need be,
however.

Don Valentine


Re: Fw: Re: Weathering with Polly Scale

ljack70117@...
 

Whether you use oil base or water base you should have a spray booth that will remove any vapors in the air and prevent you from inhaling any fumes. Water base will do as much damage to your lungs as an oil base will.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 07:25 PM, John R Gibson wrote:

Quoting Don valentine;

But water won't work for a thinner??? Guess >all the confusion over the
"new" paints is one reason I've stuck to >Scalecoat and Accu-Paint.
Now that's all well and good Don and I can understand where you are
coming from but what does one do when there lungs will not allow them to
use Scalecoat and Accu-Paint due to the vapors. I for one have to stay
with water base paints whether or not I like it but I am open to any good
subjection's that you or anyone mite have OK.

John "Hoot" Gibson
gospeltrain1@juno.com
McMinnville, Oregon


Re: M&SL Box Cars in Northern New England

G. Walls <glwalls@...>
 

Hi Folks,
Along with Maytag, Newton,Iowa.
And just for information, The Amana Colonies,(Amana Industries)
was/is a commune of which there are four small towns. Each one
provides something for the whole.
Griffen Foundry and Pipe, Blue Bell school buses, John Deere,
Catapiler (Heavy Equipment) Motorhomes. Besides being the number one
state in corn and hog production.

George Walls
Treynor, Iowa



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, ljack70117@a... wrote:
How about Amana. Weren't they in Iowa. Davenport locomotive Co. A
lot
of their products were shipped out on flat cars and in box cars.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 05:21 PM, newrail@s... wrote:

Quoting lodged@m...:

There was, and is, a lot of manufacturing done in Iowa. Farm
equipment
as
well as consumer goods. Not just corn and hogs and, yes, sheep.

Don Lodge


Having raised Polled Dorsets for twenty years I'm well
aware of
the
sheep, Don, due to the fact that the records for the breed were
maintained
by a woman in Hudson, Iowa for many years until the late 1990's.
The
GSC flats
are too late for someone with a 12-31-1948 cutoff date but there
must
be some
boxcar load other than grain. Guess that can do if need be,
however.

Don Valentine


Re: Weathering with Polly Scale

ljack70117@...
 

If water will not work for thiner then your paint is not acrylic. It is some type of oil base which lacquers and enamels are part of. All these thinners come come from crude oil except turpentine which comes from the pine tree which is not used much as they have subturpes (also called paint thinner) that come from oil. So you have water base and oil base paints.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

On Monday, May 26, 2003, at 05:44 PM, newrail@sover.net wrote:

Quoting ljack70117@adelphia.net:

I worked in a hardware store with a large paint department. I learned a

lot about paint there.
The word ACRYLICS is an other word for LAYTEX paint or Water Based.

But water won't work for a thinner??? Guess all the confusion over the
"new" paints is one reason I've stuck to Scalecoat and Accu-Paint. I've not
had any problems with paint eating airbrushes for dinner as the original
Modelflex from Testor's IIRC was prone to do. Several hobby shops were
making a good living selling airbrush parts during that period.

Take care, Don Valentine

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Re: Building Resin Hopper Cars

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
Also, what's a good way simulate wood inside
these cars?
Can you paint the castings before assembly? If not, consider the thinest
sheet of styrene (not much different than a sheet of paper) painted first
then fit into place.

Dave Nelson


Fw: Re: Weathering with Polly Scale

John R Gibson <gospeltrain1@...>
 

Quoting Don valentine;

But water won't work for a thinner??? Guess >all the confusion over the
"new" paints is one reason I've stuck to >Scalecoat and Accu-Paint.
Now that's all well and good Don and I can understand where you are
coming from but what does one do when there lungs will not allow them to
use Scalecoat and Accu-Paint due to the vapors. I for one have to stay
with water base paints whether or not I like it but I am open to any good
subjection's that you or anyone mite have OK.

John "Hoot" Gibson
gospeltrain1@juno.com
McMinnville, Oregon


John "Hoot" Gibson
gospeltrain1@juno.com
McMinnville, Oregon


Building Resin Hopper Cars

culturalinfidel9 <djmiller@...>
 

Hello,
I'm currently working on four Funaro and Camerlengo Southern Sealy
wood hopper cars. I've found that there is a very poor fit between
the slope sheets and sides and the slope sheets around the center
beam that runs down the center of the car. These are not just thin
spaces that could be filled easily with shims of styrene- in several
cases there are noticeable gaps of as much as 1/16". Even if I did
fill the gaps with styrene, the cars are wood, and it might look odd
to have smooth styrene filling spaces between wood components. I
assume that these gaps exist because of the nature of the car- it
would probably be very difficult to cast slope sheets that not only
fit around the center beam tightly but also mate well to the car
sides (the sides are rectangular with no triangular cut-outs at the
end like many steel cars). What is the advice of someone who either
has built one of these kits before or who has experiece building
resin hopper cars? Also, what's a good way simulate wood inside
these cars? I was hoping to be able to run these cars empty, but
with the super-smooth inside faces of the castings and the poor fit
of the slope sheets, I've kinda hit a roadblock. Suggestions for
this novice kitbuilder would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Daniel Miller


Re: 53' 6" GSC Commonwealth Flat Car

Jim Kubanick <kubanick@...>
 

To add to the discussion on the Walthers version of the GSC flatcar, don't
forget that American Model Builders (AMB) offers a lasercut wood deck kit
for this car. With some weathering, the wood deck adds a lot to the
appearance of the Walthers car.
Jim Kubanick.

----- Original Message -----
From: "pieter_roos" <pieter.roos@worldnet.att.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 6:28 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 53' 6" GSC Commonwealth Flat Car


A number of years ago when the cars first came out I bought a Walters
GSC car in PRR paint. I recalled a had a photograph of a PRR flat I
had taken in the 1960's as pre-teen in Connecticut, more for the U.S.
Army front end laoder it was carrying than the car itself. Wondering
if it might have the same type of car, I dug out the slide and
compared. Would you believe, not only was the car I photographed a GSC
car, Walters had matched THE EXACT NUMBER of the car I had
photographed!

The Walters car is well done, it could use some work on the steps an
deck. I didn't take a scale rule to it, but recall the reviwes at the
time indicating it was dimensionally accurate.

Pieter

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Scott Pitzer <scottp459@e...> wrote:

Just the other day a friend mentioned to me that the Walthers model
has more of a rounded "casting" look which is appropriate for the GSC,
compared to Tichy's. When they were new I took a look at both and
thought the two products had been mixed up... Walthers seemed to get
it right!
In the not-too-distant future I plan to do a Walthers as an Atlantic
Coast Line car, with Dennis Blake's help.
Scott Pitzer


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Re: 53' 6" GSC Commonwealth Flat Car

pieter_roos <pieter.roos@...>
 

A number of years ago when the cars first came out I bought a Walters
GSC car in PRR paint. I recalled a had a photograph of a PRR flat I
had taken in the 1960's as pre-teen in Connecticut, more for the U.S.
Army front end laoder it was carrying than the car itself. Wondering
if it might have the same type of car, I dug out the slide and
compared. Would you believe, not only was the car I photographed a GSC
car, Walters had matched THE EXACT NUMBER of the car I had
photographed!

The Walters car is well done, it could use some work on the steps an
deck. I didn't take a scale rule to it, but recall the reviwes at the
time indicating it was dimensionally accurate.

Pieter

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Scott Pitzer <scottp459@e...> wrote:

Just the other day a friend mentioned to me that the Walthers model
has more of a rounded "casting" look which is appropriate for the GSC,
compared to Tichy's. When they were new I took a look at both and
thought the two products had been mixed up... Walthers seemed to get
it right!
In the not-too-distant future I plan to do a Walthers as an Atlantic
Coast Line car, with Dennis Blake's help.
Scott Pitzer

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