Date   

Re: Working Boxcar Doors

Steve Haas
 

1) Accurate doors and door hardware

2) Separate doors to maximize the modeling potential of both the car and the
door

3) Operating door are never acceptable at the expense of #1 and #2


Steve Haas
Sammamish, WA
Goatfisher2 at comcast dot net


Re: K auxiliary air tanks

Larry Buell
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Schuyler G Larrabee" <SGL2@i...> wrote:

----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@m...>

Did K systems every need or use an auxiliary reservoir? (the kit
is a
funky
M-O-W boom car. Might the special uses of such a car provide any
clues?)
Sure. MOW cars could have air powered tools in use, with that air
tank
providing a source of compressed air to run them.

SGL
Schuyler

I am going to have to disagree. AFAIK, When track or bridge/building
gangs finally got air powered equipment, they also got small portable
air compressors and carried them on push cars or bigger ones which
were track mounted, both of which we were still using on the railroad
when I went to work. A work train with a piece/pieces of rolling
stock with air connections would have been mobility limiting, in the
way, and not permitted by management as a waste of money when other
avenues such as gasoline powered equipment such as one-man ballast
tampers; air powered equipment; or manual labor were available. If
the motive power or car departments (read mechanical department)had
these types of devices set up for picking up wrecks, I cannot speak
to that. In any event, a wreck train (and the associated people) is
NOT maintenance-of-way: see mechanical dept. description above.
I have seen a couple of photos where the scope of the project was
limited (such as a ballasted bridge redecking with a side track very
close to the track being worked on) and hoses appeared to be coming
out of a tool car door. There was an air compressor inside powering
the equipment; nothing to do with the brake equipment.

L. A. Buell


Working Boxcar Doors

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Ben Hom wrote:
"Not very."

Since Schuyler ammended his answer, I'll ammend mine:

Working doors: Not very important.
Separate door castings: Critically important.


Ben Hom


Re: What's next to fall?

n40015@...
 

Here's one more vote for having the doors separate from the body.

Charles Dean
Shelbyville, Kentucky

In a message dated 7/19/03 8:23:33 AM, newrail@... writes:

That's two for and one not convinced. I hope we can do better than

that for responses.



Best wishes, Don Valentine


Re: What's next to fall?

thompson@...
 

Greg Martin said:
I think Charlie is talking about the PRR Class G31 and the subclasses.
Although there were plenty produced, it was a road specific class of
gondolas. Being
a Pennsy fan I would love it but it could be hard to make the tooling pay for
itself.
Actually, Greg, SP bought a bunch of gons from AC&F which were very
similar to the G31, not too hard a kitbash if we had a styrene G31.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Working Boxcar Doors

Eugene Deimling <endeimling@...>
 

I consturcted one car with working doors. It was a SP door and half. I
used a flat spring wire "clip" glued to the back of the door to keep it in
tension against the body. The key is to only do one side so that the clip
doesn't show. The door runs on the lower track but could of rested on the
top track just as easily.
You can see the car on the Proto48 website.
http://www.proto48.org

Gene Deimling


Re: What's Next to Fall

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

John,
Glad to see you're back amongst us. Have you given any more thought to the M&StL 24000 series cars (1923 ARA)? Are those SAL cars with similar sides
still available?
Thanks,
Clark

John Golden wrote:

Gentelemen,

If it were up to me, I'd vote for the 1923 ARA
composite box car or the 1932 ARA box car. I'd like
them because Seaboard had thousands, but several other
roads had the 1923 cars or variations of them, and a
lot of the "big" roads had '32 cars.

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL

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Re: Working doors on box cars

Jim Wolf
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Jim or Lisa Hayes" <jim-and-
lisa@a...> wrote:
Separate doors yes!
Working doors - I don't care.
I second that. Intermountain's 1937 car in O Scale
works quite well with scale door tracks.

Jim Wolf


Re: Working doors on box cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Having problems painting brass cars with working doors??

Uhh, guys, you ever hear of tape?? (Applied to the back side
of the door to keep it shut tight while painting.)

My W&R round roof car has such a tight door that it has
made little scratches on the car side -- just like the
prototype!

Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> -->> NOTE EMAIL CHANGE <<--
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Working doors on box cars

Jim or Lisa Hayes <jim-and-lisa@...>
 

Separate doors yes!
Working doors - I don't care.

--
Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon


Re: K auxiliary air tanks

armprem
 

Denny ,Is it a split K brake? A

----- Original Message -----
From: Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 12:04 PM
Subject: [STMFC] K auxiliary air tanks


I am attempting underbody detail on a F&C resin kit ("detail to level that
you wish"), and in the only instructions, there is a stick drawing of what
appears to be a K cylinder/reservoir on one side of the center sill
connected by a single pipe to what seems to be a tank on the other side.
The kit includes a Tichy K system but no tank, and one is left wondering
what he is dealing with.

Did K systems every need or use an auxiliary reservoir? (the kit is a
funky
M-O-W boom car. Might the special uses of such a car provide any clues?)

Denny




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NWU Transportation Library report

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

I was in Chicago this past week working at Northwestern University where I
copied a bunch of stuff from their Copeland files. As Copeland maps has
come up before in conversation I thought I'd recap what I found there.

The Copeland files have a max of 4 reports for a given year for a given
railroad. Their purpose is to demonstrate to bondholders that the bond they
hold (secured by property mortgaged by the railroad) was for a viable
business route as nobody wanted to be holding bonds where the road could
choose to default and say take it as it's only worth scrap. The reports take
the form of a) an overview map, either route or corporate structure, neither
of which was of much interest to me; b) a route density ratio report for
those routes that have been mortgaged, not of much interest to me; c) an
annual interchange report - this was very interesting... some variation in
content, either total cars given, received at specific locations to specific
roads or same data but no location; and d) tonnage miles maps - these too
were interesting... these are oft seen maps where the ton miles are
represented as a number of parallel lines to the route w/ each line
represent some large number of ton miles per road mile. The map size varied
by road as you would expect but it seemed the minimum size I saw was 4
square feet (I was told some of the maps exceed 50 square feet). The
documents themselves are old, printed on heavy paper (probably high rag
content -- good), many folds (not good) and care must be taken when
unfolding and making copies.

I used an ordinary copy machine that was loaded with 11x17 paper; most of
the maps I copied took a minimum of 5 pages to capture the whole route. If
you buy a copy card each page costs 8 cents. There are oversize copiers
elsewhere in the library complex which use a roll of very wide paper and can
do these maps in just one pass -- $1.50 per map. The fellow who knew how to
operate the machine was off this week so I didn't get to use it.

Most of the documents were dated in the 1930's, some earlier, more later.
Roads covered were those who had mortgaged their routes and the NWU holdings
were not complete as only a few roads had many successive years. I noticed
the DRGW, ERIE, and WM files were very thick, UP very thin. Harvard and
Stanford also have Copeland material and it would not surprise me if all
three collections are largely complementary (i.e., few duplicates).

The Copeland holdings at NWU are not on open shelves. The library staff was
a bit cautious at first but when satisfied I was a serious researcher
instead of your typical drooling railfan / paper thief they relaxed and
became interested in what I was doing and were quite helpful. The library
director told me he wanted to digitize the collection but whether funds
would become available was unknown.

As for the other material in the library while most of the collection was
newer than 1960, I noted an extensive collection of older AAR weekly traffic
reports (bound) which are quite useful in determining the seasonality of
traffic volume on a road (weekly sum of cars loaded for grain, coal, ore,
lumber, merch, misc, and cars received). I also found a number of 1950's
ICC 1% waybill reports, most of which I've seen locally so I just skimmed
thru them... one that was new to me was car type by commodity class (the
rows) by lading weight (the columns). I noticed reefers were used for far
more commodity classes than I expected (I knew of printed material, merch,
etc) but many dirty loads were cited too (e.g., fertilizer). Another thing
I noticed was the use of gondolas and flats for l.c.l. Not too surprising
when you think of it but then who thinks anymore when you can simply pose
the question to this list?

Lastly, I stumbled upon a collection of Canadian data (I can hear Tony groan
already), which I copied. For each province: Tonnage and carloads
originated; tonnage received from US points for Canada; tonnage received
from US points for the US, tonnage terminated, tonnage delivered to the US.
Similar data by railroad (including those US roads w/ track in Canada).
Similar data for east to west within Canada. I suspect the data can
determine net exports to the US by commodity class (one back of the envelope
calculation was on autos and auto parts and the number was suprisingly
small). IIRC total tonnage to the US in the years I examined was around 19
million (including pass thru routing above Lake Erie). Not a lot. It'll
take me many months to work thru the data so the above statement on auto
parts may not prove correct on proper examination.

So counting airfare, car, etc., I spent about $500 in order to spend ~$25 at
a copy machine (at 8 cents a page). Go figure. 8-)

Dave Nelson


Re: Working doors on box cars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

From: "Lee A. Gautreaux"

*snip*

I just bought a P2K drop end mill gon and noticed that the drop ends
don't drop. On my old E&B valley 65' mill gon, they work.
That's interesting as all of my P2k gons have working doors both the kit built ones and the ones I bought assembled. Actually working doors may not be the correct phase more like positional ends since they are not actually attached with hinges to the end.

Regarding boxcar doors no one has mentioned the system Branchline uses a track on the inside of the door frames engages a separately applied door guide. No hideous claws on the outside. I've used in on a few cars. Like others have said off course you need to detail the interior.

Brian J Carlson
Cheektowaga NY
----- Original Message -----
From: Schuyler G Larrabee
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 11:31 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Working doors on box cars


Just to be clear, I meant I preferred "separate" doors, not necessarily
"working" doors. Don made a point about the ability to change door types .
. . .

and also
From: "Lee A. Gautreaux"

*snip*

> I just bought a P2K drop end mill gon and noticed that the drop ends
> don't drop. On my old E&B valley 65' mill gon, they work.

That's interesting. I assume you bought an assembled car? The kit allows
you to make a working end version which appears to be pretty much scale.

SGL


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Re: K auxiliary air tanks

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@...>

Did K systems every need or use an auxiliary reservoir? (the kit is a
funky
M-O-W boom car. Might the special uses of such a car provide any clues?)
Sure. MOW cars could have air powered tools in use, with that air tank
providing a source of compressed air to run them.

SGL


K auxiliary air tanks

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

I am attempting underbody detail on a F&C resin kit ("detail to level that you wish"), and in the only instructions, there is a stick drawing of what appears to be a K cylinder/reservoir on one side of the center sill connected by a single pipe to what seems to be a tank on the other side. The kit includes a Tichy K system but no tank, and one is left wondering what he is dealing with.

Did K systems every need or use an auxiliary reservoir? (the kit is a funky M-O-W boom car. Might the special uses of such a car provide any clues?)

Denny


Re: Working doors on box cars

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

You will see a clarification of my response today, I just posted it.
Separate, yes, working, well . . . maybe. The ability to use another door
than the one that came in the kit (or, HORRORS! MOLDED ON! 8^) ) is
important.

Brass cars? The ones I've painted, I managed to remove the doors, paint
them separately, and get them back on without losing a whole lot of paint.
Worked for me . . .

SGL

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Lane" <billlane@...>
To: <SGL2@...>
Cc: "Steam Era Freight cars" <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 7:36 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Working doors on box cars


Schuyler,

I just posted a very similar question last week. With 15 + - replies to my
post said the doors and hatches etc. none said the they HAD to move or
open
on brass cars. This has been a debate between my business partner Dan and
I
over our project www.pennsysmodels.com for YEARS. It has just been settled
because of a door casting. The doors will not be opening. I always said
that
there is plenty of plastic cars that have opening doors, or can be built
will the door open.

If you have ever been painting a brass boxcar and had the door slide and
smear wet paint you too will be soldering everything up tight! Since I am
the one who has to paint our entire run of X29, nonmoving doors are very
important to me.

When you watch vintage train videos, even back then, very few cars were in
transit with the doors open. It is dangerous to have a rolling door. Who
has
ever set up a model shot of a boxcar being loaded? Well, on this list,
that
could actually be 4 out of 5! BUT, normally almost no one. Did that answer
your question?

Thanks
Bill



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Re: Working doors on box cars

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

Just to be clear, I meant I preferred "separate" doors, not necessarily
"working" doors. Don made a point about the ability to change door types .
. . .

and also
From: "Lee A. Gautreaux"

*snip*

I just bought a P2K drop end mill gon and noticed that the drop ends
don't drop. On my old E&B valley 65' mill gon, they work.
That's interesting. I assume you bought an assembled car? The kit allows
you to make a working end version which appears to be pretty much scale.

SGL


Re: What's Next to Fall

Larry Lee <jlawrencelee@...>
 

If it were up to me, I'd vote for the 1923 ARA
composite box car or the 1932 ARA box car. I'd like
them because Seaboard had thousands, but several other
roads had the 1923 cars or variations of them, and a
lot of the "big" roads had '32 cars.

It's hard to argue with John on these two, and the order in which he listed
them! Of course, I wouldn't argue against the NYC rebuilds, either.

Larry Lee
Auburn, AL


Re: What's Next to Fall

golden1014
 

Gentelemen,

If it were up to me, I'd vote for the 1923 ARA
composite box car or the 1932 ARA box car. I'd like
them because Seaboard had thousands, but several other
roads had the 1923 cars or variations of them, and a
lot of the "big" roads had '32 cars.

John Golden
O'Fallon, IL



=====


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Re: Working doors on box cars

Larry Lee <jlawrencelee@...>
 

I personally prefer doors that can be open, partially open, or closed. I
did not necessarily say working, but this would indicate separate doors that
can be installed in any position. I include reefer doors, end doors, drop
ends on gons, caboose doors, and auxiliary openings like lumber doors. Even
multi-position hopper doors would be a good thing.

As others have mentioned, sliding doors were, and still are, often left open
after cars were unloaded, especially if the car had a balky door. Others
indicated that they like to model loading/unloading scenes.

I enjoy assembling models, so kits with many parts are a pleasure to
me--assuming the parts fit reasonably well. Though I do it when necessary,
I don't really enjoy scratch-building a lot of small, similar parts, nor do
I get my jollies having to cut up a carbody or underframe to perform some
modification that would have been so much simpler had the parts in question
been separate.

Separate doors would easily allow a higher level of detail as well. BOTH
sides of the door could be detailed when cast, and it would be much easier
for modelers to ding, bend, and otherwise inflict prototypical damage to
them if desired.

Larry Lee
Auburn, AL

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