Date   

A few available cars known to be in piggyback service

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

For those curious about currently available models of flat cars used in
piggyback service during the period covered by the STMFC, here's a few:

1.Wabash 110-149 or 210-239.......Walthers 53'6" Commonwealth Flat [
reference Model Railroading Sep '87 pg 41 ]

2. C&NW 44001-44599...particularly 44443.....P2K 53'6" AAR Flat [ reference
Model Railroading Sep '87 pg 41 ]

3. UP used some of their F-50-10 class of cars...52' 8.5" deck...renumbered
into the 53000 series for piggyback service. Kit bashing one of these from a
P2K might be possible.

4. UP also used some of their F-50-15 class of 42' 6" cars renumbered into
the 53500 series. The F-50-15 is probably a good candidate for bashing from
a Walthers Commonwealth flat as I believe Greg Martin suggested some time
ago.

Photos of NP, SP, UP and CB&Q trailers can be found in the Feb '88 Model
Railroading issue, photos of various cars in the Sep '87 issue and
discussion and photos of UP operations in the March '88 issue. Many more
articles on piggyback cars can be found by looking in Kalmbach's mag
index...some authored by members of the STMFC...but I only took the time to
research UP flats.

Mike Brock


Re: "Steam Era" Piggyback Flatcars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Don Valentine asked:
Where might one find this article?

"1950s Piggyback Trailers in HO Scale," Jeff Wilson, Model
Railroader, August 2001 page 60.

Courtesy http://index.mrmag.com .


Ben Hom


Re: "Steam Era" Piggyback Flatcars

Don Valentine
 

Quoting Larry Smith <wooddale@...>:
There is an excellent
article by Jeff Wilson on taking the Walthers' trailer and changing it
to an open top and horizontal rib trailer for the 50s to add variety to
them.
Where might one find this article?

Thanks, Don Valentine


Re: Steam Era "Piggyback" Flatcars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Mont Switzer wrote:
You are right about the build date I'm sure, but they didn't get
around much until the late 1950's from what I have been able to
observe from photos. They seem to have stayed on the PRR, but
hauling on and off line trailers. Sorry for the error.

All Pennsy TOFC flats went to Trailer Train upon startup in 1956,
which goes along with what you've seen. (Besides, your previous
assertion wasn't whether or not the cars traveled off line, but when
the 75 ft flats were built.)

Anyway, I'm sticking to my "evolution of service" argument until
someone can show me evidence in 1954 (NOT 1955-1960) of foreign
trailers on home piggyback flats (or vice versa).


Ben Hom


Re: 40'S and 50's TRAILERS & Flats

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Len Allman wrote:
Last week I saw a Grif Teller painting of a PRR TOFC
train that had all cartage company trailers. I think
it came from one of the railroad's calendars.

The painting is "Dynamic Progress" and was featured on the 1956
calendar. Gotta love the Aerotrain in full Pennsy colors! If they
only knew...

http://kc.pennsyrr.com/art/images/1956.jpeg


Ben Hom


Re: Steam Era "Piggyback" Flatcars

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Ben: You are right about the build date I'm sure, but they didn't get
around much until the late 1950's from what I have been able to observe
from photos. They seem to have stayed on the PRR, but hauling on and
off line trailers. Sorry for the error. Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: benjaminfrank_hom [mailto:b.hom@...]
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 5:58 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Steam Era "Piggyback" Flatcars

Mont Switzer wrote:
The 75 ft. plus length two trailer cars were built before 1960, but
barely.

I diagree. PRR 470400-470599, Class F39, built at Bethlehem
(Johnstown PA), December, 1954. See "Pennsy's TrucTrain Service",
The Keystone, Autumn 1992.


Ben Hom



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Re: 40'S and 50's TRAILERS & Flats

Len Allman <allmansipe@...>
 

Hello,

Last week I saw a Grif Teller painting of a PRR TOFC
train that had all cartage company trailers. I think
it came from one of the railroad's calendars.

Best regards,
Len Allman


--- Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...> wrote:

Looking at Page 41 of the May 1989 Model
Railroading I see
a Wabash Trailer on a Wabash 75' Flatcar and a
trailer of a
cartage company.


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Re: Steam Era "Piggyback" Flatcars

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Tim: Accurate trailers are not that difficult especially if you can
start with a model that is basically correct. Most trailers were of
welded construction and any rivets were so small that you could not seem
them in HO. That leaves the nose box and connections (HO MU glad hands
work there), landing gear (details available from several sources),
suspension, wheels and tires (available again) and under ride protection
(easy to scratch build). Even scratch building a trailer isn't that
touch for all of the reasons that you have listed. Just build the box
and hand the goodies on. I once heard a trailer manufacturer's rep say
anyone with a barn and power drill who could buy springs and axles could
be in the trailer business. Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor [mailto:timoconnor@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:48 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Steam Era "Piggyback" Flatcars


Jerry, you ask why. A number of reasons --

1. They don't have to operate. (No couplers, or rolling wheels)

2. They are "open loads". Our tractor loads, auto loads, lumber
loads, and so on, almost always are less "true to prototype"
than the cars they ride on. If I insist on perfect trailers I
might as well require all other open loads to be perfect too.

3. It's unrealistic to expect anyone who actually cares about TOFC
to manufacture perfect models at a reasonable cost. Heck, I think
there are only about 12 of us in HO who even care about 1950's
piggyback trains...

4. I have only so much time. Perfect trailers are way, way down on
my list of things I can't live without.


Resin is really the way to go with trailers -- they don't have to
be "perfect" like our freight cars,
Hmmm, I wonder why? It seems to me that perfect trailers would
compliment
perfect freight cars (flat cars in this case).

Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> -->> NOTE EMAIL CHANGE <<--
Sterling, Massachusetts



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Re: 40'S and 50's TRAILERS

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Rich: The center of gravity for a highway trailer depends on the load
inside. It would usually be within the first four feet above the floor
which would make it 8 feet above the deck of the flat car. Compared to
many boxcar, gon , hopper and tank car loads the highway trailers were
pretty light. The empty 32 ft. plus steel trailers weighed around
10,000 lbs. A good rule of thumb for how heavy a trailer could be
loaded is 1000 pounds per foot of floor length ie a 35 ft. trailer could
carry 35,000 lbs or less. Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Chapin [mailto:rwc27q@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:27 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 40'S and 50's TRAILERS

Yes, the bodies would make things top heavy, just like a real loaded
trailer
on a pig flat. But, could be real good for "landed" trailers at the
ramp. I
wonder where the center of gravity is for a real loaded pig trailer?
Could
always drill out plaster till they match. :o)

Thanks for the Resin Unlimited link. Have you built one of those
trailers?

Best Regards,
Rich Chapin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 40'S and 50's TRAILERS



Sheepscot trailer bodies are solid cast plaster... Very bad
for TOFC service, unless you don't have any curves on your
layout. Can you say "stringline" ? :o)

There is another outfit that makes resin models whose name
escapes me at the moment -- they mostly make N scale stuff and
fire trucks and constructon vehicles -- and they make a very,
very nice Fruehauf round nose van with corrugated sides.

Ahh, here is the name: Resin Unlimited http://www.resinunlimited.com/

Click on Products, then HO Vehicles, and scroll down.




Sheepscot http://www.sheepscotscale.com/ has a very nice 32 ft, round
nose van trailer that is a dead ringer for a Fruehauf Van, although
they
don't call it a Fruehauf.
Best Regards,
Rich Chapin

Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> -->> NOTE EMAIL CHANGE <<--
Sterling, Massachusetts



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Re: 40'S and 50's TRAILERS

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Ben: It was happening in the 1955 - 1960 time frame quite often. As
an example the C&NW was quoted in the 12/5/55 RAILWAY AGE "Expansion
plans include new through service on the Southwest via St. Louis; and on
December 12 the road expects to begin extensive interline operations
with 10 eastern roads - B&O, DL&W, LV, NKP, PRR, RDG, Wabash, WM, P&WV
and Monon. ........ Interline Operations already are in effect at
Benld, Ill., via the Litchfield & Madison to and from St. Louis; to and
from Denver via the Union Pacific; and at Chicago with the C&EI, Monon,
Nickel Plate and PRR." My photos and books show they were mixing it up
pretty well by 1960. Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: benjaminfrank_hom [mailto:b.hom@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 1:23 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 40'S and 50's TRAILERS

Rich Chapin wrote:
Combining one roads trailer on another roads pig flat was common.
(I've photos of SOO trailer on LV flat, LV trailer on M&StL flat, B&M
trailer on LV flat, Wabash trailer on DL&W flat and others.)

This depends on your modeling cutoff date - at the beginning of
railroad TOFC service, cars and trailers didn't interchange. This
became true later on as the railroads moved towards the Trailer Train
model of operations. When were your photos taken?


Ben Hom



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Re: "Steam Era" Piggyback Flatcars

Larry Smith
 

Dave

You are absolutely correct, it is extremely hard to determine the time frame of a trailer. Cars and trucks usually have the model year attached to them so there is not a question. If you go to the 1/87th scale. info page and go through the different manufacturers you will see them listed by year. Trailers on the other hand.

The manufacturers who make trailers for this 40-60 era. Short Line Products, Resin Unlimited, Slyvan Scale Models, Don Mills and On-Trak in resin. Alloy Forms and On-Trak in metal, and Sheepscott in plaster. The Walthers 32 foot trailer is correct for the time period except it is too tall and needs to be lowered by 9". There is an excellent article by Jeff Wilson on taking the Walthers' trailer and changing it to an open top and horizontal rib trailer for the 50s to add variety to them.

The small Athearn trailers are totally wrong for this era, actually any era, because they were sized down from 40 footers to fit the Atheran flat. You will notice the dual axles on the rear and these didn't come into play until the trailers went to 32 foot.

For all your trailers, A-Line makes excellent after market parts and you can super detail the trailers to the level that we do our freight cars.

Larry Smith


I'd like to pick up some 40's era trucks and vans but I've no idea which
models are a) correct for the era and b) well crafted.

Dave Nelson







Re: Early piggyback cars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Rich Chapin wrote:
"I've got a number of sources which cause me to "respectfully beg to
differ" on early pigs going off-line..."

Actually, Rich, I don't think we disagree at all. I think we're
seeing evidence that supports both arguments. Consider the following
service start dates for TOFC from the December 13, 1954 issue of
Railway Age:

"The CN&W established piggyback service between "...more than 800
eastern cities and points on the CN&W..." in October 1955.
Ten "eastern" roads participated: PRR, DL&W, LV, NKP, RDG, Wabash,
Western Maryland, P&WV and Monon. (ref: North Western Newsliner, Oct
1955, employee mag)"

C&NW: August 12, 1953
PRR: July 12, 1954
DL&W: June, 1954
LV: July 12, 1954
NKP: July 12, 1954
RDG: January 1, 1955
WAB: July 23, 1954
CI&L: January 15, 1955

LV and DL&W were noted to provide connecting service to New York for
NKP and WAB, which makes perfect sense when you're competing with PRR
and Erie over the same route.


"The B&M established a through service from Boston/New England to
Chicago and St. Louis in May 1956, with the connecting roads being
the D&H, DL&W, Erie, LV, NKP & Wabash (ref: Boston & Maine Railroad
Magazine, May-June 1956, employee mag.)"

Erie: July 12, 1954

The last piece of the puzzle is the formation of Trailer Train in
early 1956, which predates all but your C&NW example.


I submit that what we're seeing here is the dynamic evolution of TOFC
service from a company-specific service operated independently by
each railroad to joint service operated in cooperation by the
railroads as both business model and operating practices matured.
The service evolved quickly as the railroads were pressed by long-
haul truck competitition. So what does this mean for modeler? It
looks like you have to know where your modeling period falls during
this development.


Ben Hom


Re: SP DD 50' steel box cars

KACHINainc@...
 


Re: Early piggyback cars

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Tony: Securing a semi-trailer on a flat car against movement while in
transit is somewhat like building a resin kit. It takes some patience,
techniques are developed and of course an understanding of what is being
achieved is necessary. A two man crew in the real world could tie down
a trailer in less than an hour (I've read somewhere 10 minutes, but I do
not believe it) so we can do it in HO scale in that amount of time or
less with a little planning and know how. Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: thompson@... [mailto:thompson@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 12:50 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Early piggyback cars

Larry Smith said:
One of
the most common cars that I have found in my research was what looked
the Athearn 50' flat car. You do have to make some changes to the car,
adding rub rails and tie downs, but it does make an acceptable model.
Let's see, that would be the Athearn 48' car, so one thing you'd need
to
do would be the addition of about 5 feet...and calling early-day
tie-downs
"some changes" is like saying "hey, the Trix UP box car needs some
changes..."
Of course, one can certainly conclude that simply gluing trailers on
an
Athearn "long flat" without other changes is "acceptable," and that's a
value judgement beyond dispute. As the saying goes, YMMV.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history




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Re: Steam Era "Piggyback" Flatcars

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Mont Switzer wrote:
The 75 ft. plus length two trailer cars were built before 1960, but
barely.

I diagree. PRR 470400-470599, Class F39, built at Bethlehem
(Johnstown PA), December, 1954. See "Pennsy's TrucTrain Service",
The Keystone, Autumn 1992.


Ben Hom


Re: Steam Era "Piggyback" Flatcars

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

SHAWN: The nice thing about the early piggyback flat cars was
they were made from 40 ft. and 50 ft. cars already on the railroad's
roster allowing the modeler to do the same conversion that the railroad
did. The conversions are pretty simple, but different from railroad to
railroad until standardization hit about 1959- 1960. The 75 ft. plus
length two trailer cars were built before 1960, but barely. Mont
Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: Beckert, Shawn [mailto:shawn.beckert@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:16 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Steam Era "Piggyback" Flatcars

Fellow Listers,

I'd be the first to agree that we need much more in the way
of *accurate* (not just "available") 1/87 trucks and trailers
from the 1940's and 1950's. Until recently I'd have to say I
wasn't impressed with the quality of trucks and trailers that
were offered in HO - too "toylike" - but that appears to be
getting better with the offerings from Don Mills, On-Trak, and
other manufacturers. I've also read somewhere that Sunshine
Models plans to produce HO steam-era trailers in the future.

I think a larger issue at this point is what to put all those
trailers on. When the Red Caboose Espee F-70-7 becomes available,
we'll have the starting point for the Southern Pacific piggyback
flatcar (which IIRC was the F-70-10 class) and indeed it's been
mentioned that someone might produce all the details needed to
make these cars correct for early SP pig flats.

Other than that possibility, I don't think there's much out there
that's usable for this kind of "steam-era" rolling stock. I seem
to recall that a cast-metal flatcar used to be available to put
the Ulrich trailers on - maybe Ulrich made these themselves? And
the old Revell flatcar was offered in a piggyback version, IIRC.

Beyond that, I think we're hurting for decent piggyback flatcars
from the era we're all interested in here. Until this kind of car
gets produced, all those neat new trucks and trailers will have to
be background scenery on our layouts.

Shawn Beckert


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Re: Trailers from the 1940's and 1950's

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Bruce: Check the width of your Athearn 25 ft. trailers. They should be
8 ft. overall width in our era. The Athearn models are noticeably
narrower. Also look at the wheels -- not close to anything then or now.
And that smooth surface -- nothing was or is that smooth on the side of
a trailer. Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Brantner [mailto:sfcoyote_2000@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 6:22 AM
To: stmfc@...
Subject: [STMFC] Trailers from the 1940's and 1950's

Do you remember seeing the Tyco 20' Santa Fe trailers?
And the Athearn 20 footers? You can easily kit bash
these into a 25' trailer with the rounded front end.
Also you can use some of the more modern 28 footers to
kit bash into 32' trailers.

With a little bit of effort any size and era trailer
can be made at a very low cost per trailer. Painting
is no more difficult then painting a boxcar. The
problem is in finding proper decals for the era and
the particular trailer.

If Mr. Brock OK's it; I would be more then happy to
explain on the list how it can be done.

Bruce R. Brantner, Sr.

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Re: Funaro NYC Boom Car (was K auxiliary air tanks)

Terry Link
 

Photos of the NYC Boom car that matches the Funaro kit can be found in
NYCSHS Headlight - Fourth Quarter 1983 - black and white photo.

There is a color photo in Classic Freight Cars #5 - N.E. Railroad Work
Equipment by Paul Yurko.

Car number X-1459 ( kit says the model is based on NYC X-3405 - which may
have been either a different car or the same car renumbered ).

Terry Link
Bramalea, Ontario
trlink@...
www.canadasouthern.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2003 15:04
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Funaro NYC Boom Car (was K auxiliary air tanks)


Chris Barkan wrote:
We still haven't heard what this model is intended to represent.

According to the instructions in the kit I've got, it's supposed to
be the boom car for the Harmon crane. There's a grainy B&W photocopy
included in the kit. I'm still looking for a better photo before I
start mine.

(OK, so it was on sale for $8.00!)


ben Hom



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Re: Silver Streak reefer

thompson@...
 

Tim O'Connor sez:
Almost, but not exactly. I have not found an exact match for the
model. The sides are almost a perfect match for the 1953 built cars
for FGEX and BREX...
I don't have one of the SS models to compare, so don't know if it
resembles any PFE classes. But PFE and FGE were cooperating closely on
technical and design matters circa 1953, so it's possible it is close to
the early PFE mechanical cars too. But heck, all yunz gize got the PFE book
so yunz can look it up for yerselves...<g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: SP TOFCEE Flats

thompson@...
 

Were these the Clejan flats that had compatibility problems after standards
had been agreed on by the roads?
Sure, though SP's company trailers were Clejan-equipped and could be
handled on Clejans or conventional flats. The real problem was that the
Clejans were too short.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history

172901 - 172920 of 194620