Date   

B&O Hoppers

JGG KahnSr <jacekahn@...>
 

Since I am back in Fairbanks for a few weeks, I was looking at my copy of Teichmoeller's PRR Hoppers book and noticed he mentioned he has been accumulating information on B&O hoppers but did not contemplate doing the kind of research that went into the PRR book right away again. Is there any good central source for information on B&O hoppers? (I seem to have a gracious plenty on B&O cabooses).
Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks

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Canadian Cars in the U.S. - A Discovery

JGG KahnSr <jacekahn@...>
 

Dear Shawn
I may have missed other responses to this, but my guess is dedicated newsprint traffic. On the west coast, I'd suspect most of the shipments from British Columbia downwards would be timber products, but newsprint is the only one that seems to require boxcar lading. I can only speculate about CPR rather than CNR, but it may have something to do with the forest product suppliers being on-line with CPR, who tried very hard to keep them supplied with cars.
Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks




Anyway, I was struck by the sheer number of Canadian Pacific
boxcars in Espee trains, particularly trains on the Siskiyou
Line between California and Oregon. No other car type, just
boxcars. And no Canadian National whatsoever.> > I don't know why just
CP, or why just boxcars - maybe during
the Fifties and early Sixties we bought a heck of a lot of
lumber products from British Columbia? I don't know, but I do
know that I now have to add more than a few Canadian boxcars
to the horde of kits lurking in the closet.

Shawn Beckert
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Re: wood sheathed cars-"graining on models"

ljack70117@...
 

Would not have to be home made. There are several companies that make them down to .001" dia. I have used .007" myself.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

On Thursday, July 31, 2003, at 01:02 PM, Jon Miller wrote:

And what size would that be Don? I once heard that Cannon was using
.005 cutters/mills. Homemade???????? Urban ledgion???????

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief/Zephyr systems
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS




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Re: Canadian Cars in the U.S. - A Discovery

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Shawn,

Have you considered paper, especially those huge rolls of newsprint stock our Canadian friends are so handy at making? Sounds like a good candidate load for your CP boxcars. Perhaps they were headed for the LA TIMES or some other "Great Metropolitan Newspaper". Maybe somebody who is up on Southern California destinations might have the answer.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Beckert, Shawn wrote:


. . . I was struck by the sheer number of Canadian Pacific
boxcars in Espee trains, particularly trains on the Siskiyou
Line between California and Oregon. No other car type, just
boxcars. And no Canadian National whatsoever. Odd that I had
not noticed this before, but I was probably focused on all
the beautiful Black Widow F's in 5, 6 or more unit lashups.
I don't know why just CP, or why just boxcars - maybe during
the Fifties and early Sixties we bought a heck of a lot of
lumber products from British Columbia? I don't know, but I do
know that I now have to add more than a few Canadian boxcars
to the horde of kits lurking in the closet.
Shawn Beckert


Re: Canadian Cars in the U.S. - A Discovery

russpinchbeck <rpinchbeck@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Beckert, Shawn" <shawn.beckert@d...>
wrote:
Fellow Listers,

I know this particular subject has surfaced more than a
few times here, but I'll have to add one more post on it.
The past few nights I've been going through my albums of
Southern Pacific freight train photos, especially the
F-unit albums (yes, all my photos are pigeon-holed by type,
number series, etc.)

Anyway, I was struck by the sheer number of Canadian Pacific
boxcars in Espee trains, particularly trains on the Siskiyou
Line between California and Oregon. No other car type, just
boxcars. And no Canadian National whatsoever. Odd that I had
not noticed this before, but I was probably focused on all
the beautiful Black Widow F's in 5, 6 or more unit lashups.

I don't know why just CP, or why just boxcars - maybe during
the Fifties and early Sixties we bought a heck of a lot of
lumber products from British Columbia? I don't know, but I do
know that I now have to add more than a few Canadian boxcars
to the horde of kits lurking in the closet.

Shawn Beckert
Shawn,

If you need any assistance in modeling CPR boxcars just drop me a
line. I have a handy-dandy spreadsheet that lists the 40' steel
boxcar fleet with variants and lettering data. As well there is a
section on parts for modeling these.

Cheers

Russ Pinchbeck
Calgary, Alberta


Canadian Cars in the U.S. - A Discovery

Shawn Beckert
 

Fellow Listers,

I know this particular subject has surfaced more than a
few times here, but I'll have to add one more post on it.
The past few nights I've been going through my albums of
Southern Pacific freight train photos, especially the
F-unit albums (yes, all my photos are pigeon-holed by type,
number series, etc.)

Anyway, I was struck by the sheer number of Canadian Pacific
boxcars in Espee trains, particularly trains on the Siskiyou
Line between California and Oregon. No other car type, just
boxcars. And no Canadian National whatsoever. Odd that I had
not noticed this before, but I was probably focused on all
the beautiful Black Widow F's in 5, 6 or more unit lashups.

I don't know why just CP, or why just boxcars - maybe during
the Fifties and early Sixties we bought a heck of a lot of
lumber products from British Columbia? I don't know, but I do
know that I now have to add more than a few Canadian boxcars
to the horde of kits lurking in the closet.

Shawn Beckert


Re: wood sheathed cars-"graining on models"

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Do you mean all the Evergreen stuff doesn't measure up to what it is
advertised to be???<
You bet, but then it might have been the back surface but I don't think
so. I think I used a slab of aluminum but it's been awhile!

We will know soon enough. For the recut Dominion car our toolmaker has
used the smallest size cutter he could purchase to delineate the board
sheathing.<
And what size would that be Don? I once heard that Cannon was using
.005 cutters/mills. Homemade???????? Urban ledgion???????

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief/Zephyr systems
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


CB&Q "bomber box"

C J Wyatt
 

I'm working on a couple of Sunshine CB&Q "bomber box". I haven't found any other data than what Sunshine has in its instructions. I have a few questions I'm looking for answers to.

The instructions refer to the roof as being galvanized, so I would think that a peeling paint appearance would be appropriate. Am I correct in thinking that the extensions in height are not galvanized, so that the paint would stick better to that metal. Another question is that the instructions say that 8 rung ladders were applied to the sides and ends. Prototype photos show the ladders on the A and B ends and also the side that has the ladder on the side next to the A-end (end door end). Can anyone confirm the ladder for the side in the position next to the B-end?

As for paint, does anyone have recommendations for a ModelFlex mix for CB&Q <steam-era> boxcar red?

Thanks for any help.

Jack Wyatt


Re: wood sheathed cars-"graining on models"

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

There is relatively little science and an awful lot of perception in this thread- which is absolutely to be expected. Again, modeling is the successful exercise of smoke and mirrors.

MY perception of the appearance of the wood sides of SS box cars is filled to the brim with the irregular deteriorating boards and peeling paint so common to the hordes of Milwaukee, Burlington, and Rock Island cars saturating the house tracks and industrial sidings of myriads of small midwest communities in the '50s. In my mind, in this broad perceptive vision, the Accurail car is and has been "dead on", despite more objective analytical comments to the contrary.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: wood sheathed cars-"graining on models"

Don Valentine
 

Don Valentine wrote:
If the master were constructed with individual boards represented by
individual styrene strips I strongly suspect we would get some of the
boards in different planes that IS noticeable on such cars where the
joints otherwise are NOT
And Jon Miller responded:

I did this on the first master for Al's SF BX11+ series. Al didn't
like it and because the styrene (lumber) is not at all close dimensionally
Do you mean all the Evergreen stuff doesn't measure up to what it is
advertised to be???


it actually came out looking like an Accurail car<VBG>. So ended up used
regular Evergreen scribed sheeting. My (IMHO) is that the off plane
planks look fine for say one or two cars and no more. I also don't like the
wide scribed lines but am not sure what is a happy medium. Probably very
fine lines that just indicate that there are boards there. Assuming paint
is .001 I would make the lines .002/3 and the width about the same. The
P2K cars are just too wide. Is it difficult to make a mold with these fine
lines?
We will know soon enough. For the recut Dominion car our toolomaker has
used the smallest size cutter he could purchase to delineate the board
sheathing. If this doesn't satisfy the majority of people we will tool the
next one without marks for individual boards to enable the nitpickers to
scribe their own. Then they can decide which method is best!

Take care, Don Valentine
New England Rail Service


Re: Ted's Photo CD

Michael Watnoski
 

Greetings,

All trust plates do not have dates. I found one on a B&O covered
hopper in a the B&O museum that read:
THE FIRST NATIONAL CITY BANK
OF NEW YORK
ASSIGNEE, OWNER

What was the purpose of these plates, other than to identify the
finacing of the car? I would assume that the railroad and bank
paperwork would suffice for repayment of any loans. Were these used to
establish the lien holder in case of off line damage to the car
resulting in the total reinbursment of the remauining value of the car?
Were these used as advertising by the bank for its loans? Were these
removed after the trust expired? I noted that in the museum collection,
hardly any cars had trust plates. Many (most) modern cars seem to have
this data stenciled on the car, rather than on a plate. Were these
repainted if the car was repainted? Inquiring minds would like to know.

Michael

Charlie Vlk wrote:


Ah yes, but the trust plates usually have a date on them, which should be
matched to correct institutuion and built date for the lot and number series
of each class of each railroad.
Generic trust plates would be for the vesties, wouldn't they???
Charlie Vlk

----- Original Message -----
From: <tculotta@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Ted's Photo CD

About PRR 24749: Is that a trust plate just to the left of
the ladder on the right side? That sucker stands out enough
to throw a shadow. How would you model that - a piece of strip
styrene painted the same color as the carbody?
Shawn:

It is a trust plate. It reads: "The First National City bank of New York,
Owner" These would be nice details to have as etched parts. I am sure
that there is a good list somewhere of which financial institutions were
the major equipment trust lenders back in the Steam Era.

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Re: Stock Cars

Gene Green <willibecher@...>
 

Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:19:54 -0500
J. Stephen Sandifer asks, "Have other society produced similar
materials?"

Following 3 articles found in INDEX TO THE NORTH WESTERN LINES FIRST
25 VOLUMES 1974 TO 1998 (publication of C&NW Hist. Soc.):
Stock Cars 35023-35699, Joe Follmar, Jan 81, p. 39
Stock Car, A C&NW, Ron Christensen, Winter 90, p. 48
Stock Cars from Box Cars, Joe Follmar, Fall 90, p. 44

Interested parties should write to Dick Talbott, 309 22nd St., NE,
Cedar Rapids, IA 53402 to inquire about the availability of back
issues.

C&NWHS has a photocopy service. Write to Villa Park Historical
Society, C&NWHS Copy, 220 S. Villa Ave., Villa Park, IL 60181.

Gene Green


Re: wood sheathed cars-"graining on models"

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

If the master were constructed with individual boards represented by
individual styrene strips I strongly suspect we would get some of the boards
in different planes that IS noticeable on such cars where the joints
otherwise are NOT<
I did this on the first master for Al's SF BX11+ series. Al didn't like
it and because the styrene (lumber) is not at all close dimensionally it
actually came out looking like an Accurail car<VBG>. So ended up used
regular Evergreen scribed sheeting. My (IMHO) is that the off plane planks
look fine for say one or two cars and no more. I also don't like the wide
scribed lines but am not sure what is a happy medium. Probably very fine
lines that just indicate that there are boards there. Assuming paint is
.001 I would make the lines .002/3 and the width about the same. The P2K
cars are just too wide. Is it difficult to make a mold with these fine
lines?

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief/Zephyr systems
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Troop sleeper rebuilt as REA express reefers

Charlie Vlk
 

IDRC (I Didn't Remember Correctly)!! and should know better than to question
Things Monon when Mont says it ain't so!!
I thought I saw some Monon MOW Troop Pullmans, but must have been thinking
of some other road's cars.
Charlie

CHARLIE: THE TROOP KITCHEN CARS HAD A RICH HISTORY ON THE MONON THAT
SAW
THEM USED IN HEATER/GENERATOR, RIDER CABOOSE, STORAGE MAIL, AND MOFW
SERVICE
LASTING FROM THEIR POST WWII ACQUISITION THROUGH THE END OF THE MONON IN
1971. ALL WERE DEFINATELY TROOP KITCHEN CARS. MONT SWITZER
Mont and list-
IIRC, the head end stuff were Troop Kitchen Cars, but I believe the Monon
also had some Troop Pullmans that made it into MOW service....I don't know
if they were used for rider cars or went directly into maintenance
service.
Charlie


Re: Lists of Equipment Trusts in MOODY's

tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Montford Switzer wrote:

Tim: Food for thought. I think the railroads removed the trust
plates when the cars were paid off. I've seen the trust info on cast
metal plates as well as painted on in later years, and I've seen
plates
removed and trust info painted over. I wonder how quickly the trust
info was removed after the trust had expired.
Mont,

How often were freight cars repainted? Probably the next time the car
was in the Shops after the Trust matured. It was probably a low priority
item so trust plates could linger on quite a while.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Lists of Equipment Trusts in MOODY's

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Tim: Food for thought. I think the railroads removed the trust
plates when the cars were paid off. I've seen the trust info on cast
metal plates as well as painted on in later years, and I've seen plates
removed and trust info painted over. I wonder how quickly the trust
info was removed after the trust had expired.

Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: tim gilbert [mailto:tgilbert@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2003 4:08 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Lists of Equipment Trusts in MOODY's

tculotta@... wrote:

It is a trust plate. It reads: "The First National City bank of New
York,
Owner" These would be nice details to have as etched parts. I am
sure
that there is a good list somewhere of which financial institutions
were
the major equipment trust lenders back in the Steam Era.
Ted,

The MOODY's STEAM RAILROAD ANNUALS (later TRANSPORTATION ANNUALS) listed
each railroad's outstanding equipment trusts in the FUNDED DEBT section
of the specified railroad. The data for each Trust included:

1) Series A, B, C,.... etc.., Interest Rate, MOODY's rating.
2) Date & Amount of Original Issue.
3) Payment Schedule.
4) Interest Payments.
5) Trustee.
6) Security - equipment covered, original cost and amount RR paid in
cash.

While the equipment listed in the security section may be broadly
described (e.g. 1,500 boxcars, 500 gondolas, 20 steam freight
locomotives), someone who knows the history of acquisitions of that
railroad ought to be able to trace more exactly which equipment was
financed by what equipment trust.

Equipment Trusts were for only 10-15 year duration, and when they were
fully paid off, MOODY's dropped the listing of that equipment trust.

Tim Gilbert


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Re: Artistic License

Charlie Vlk
 

When I said "Artistic License" I didn't mean the 00 series license to kill
version. I was referring to the judgment of how to best
represent the prototype in a reduced proportion using incorrect materials
joined in unprototypical ways.....
An example of this is Hank Balinski (he did the Burlington Bobber article in
MR back in 1954) who now, with his son, models in 3" scale live steam.....
and has some absolutely drop-dead fantastic models of a CB&Q A-class 4-4-0
and a NM-2 Bobber caboose, among others. Being a machinist by trade he has
such things as the correct foundry pattern numbers cast into all the parts
like the elbows on the brake piping.... he and his son are truly sick
puppies.....
The only flaw in the equipment to me is it looks too perfect. I don't think
the workmanship performed at Aurora or Plattsmouth was up to their modeling
standards. Now, in 3" scale representing bad joints and wood grain isn't
too much of a stretch, but reducing it to 1/87 or 1/160 may require some
overstatement so it will register to the human eye.
I remember the article on Jacques' railroad....as I recall the whole thing
was powered by American Flyer diesel mechanisms in the tender pushing the
balsa and cardstock locos around. Interesting, but a different end of the
broad tent!!!
Charlie Vlk


Re: Ted's Photo CD

Charlie Vlk
 

Tony-
I have been working with Locomotive Builders Plates and Trust Plates
recently on artwork for the Lettering & Painting of steam locomotives for
several clients....
A philosophy that Craig Holmberg had established at Kato when I worked with
him there is still one I use in my consulting practice. Basically, Do the
Least Harm. In other words, if there is a detail (paint or structural)
that varies from roadnumber to roadnumber, or with time, select the one that
is least difficult to change and /or leave it off. Nowadays, with the level
of
production bumped up to the point where the manufacturers are willing to
include variations for individual roadnumbers, this
is less necessary.
If the information is available, I include it on the artwork. With freight
cars it is sometimes impossible to come up with enough
pictures of cars within a class to "do" all the spread of numbers for a
production that have good photo documentation for each
car at a point in time, so reweigh and repack info is left off or is
generic. Trust Plates sound like they will be easier to do now.
Charlie Vlk


Re: Lists of Equipment Trusts in MOODY's

Charlie Vlk
 

Tim-
That is good information. Thanks!!
Charlie Vlk


Re: wood sheathing on box cars

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

To throw more wood on the fire, take a look at the latest Mainline Modeler,
Aug 2003. There's a very interesting photo of a SS USRA box car, apparently,
just refurbished AND repainted. No grooves but you certainly tell different
thicknesses of boards. And, something else. Grain? I'm not sure. Maybe Greg
can help here. The photo on pg 71 is also useful. Lines are present, and the
boards being not in the same plane is pretty evident. This on an in service
car.

Mike Brock

173701 - 173720 of 195633