Date   

Re: Train shed Cyclopedias

byronrose@...
 

On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 00:43:05 -0500 "Tim O'Connor"
<timoconnor@mediaone.net> writes:

Why Byron, that was surprisingly informative, and even civil! What's
gotten into you? Did you fall into a vat of honey? If this ever gets
out, your reputation will be ruined!

Reputation, what reputation? Everybody who's ever met me knows what a
sweet, even tempered, knowledgeable guy I am. Or is that can be? I
forget.

You must have me confused with somebody else.

But the real answer has to do with the level of discussion at hand. Ask
about learning and I'm a pussy cat. Ask about weathering wood siding on
HO (or even 0) models and I go ballistic. Nature of the beast, I guess.

BSR
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Re: 38 foot IL Commonwealth pulpwood cars

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Tim - There is a builder's photo of the T&NO car on our Atlas rolling stock
guide
(http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Kits/Atlas-kits.html
#FM) and maybe Atlas will do it. Any photos of the SSW cars? - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
To: <STMFC@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 9:51 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 38 foot IL Commonwealth pulpwood cars


At 09:34 AM 1/10/01 -0500, you wrote:
Paul Graf of Atlas is looking for photos from which to create the artwork
for other versions of their HO scale pulpwood car. Supposedly the
Frisco,
Savannah & Atlanta, IGN, MP, SP and NCStL all had these, and maybe
someone
knows of other such cars. (A spotting feature would be the 38 foot IL
between the bulkheads.)
- John Nehrich
John, "SP" didn't buy any, but T&NO (SP Texas lines) did, as did SSW (aka
Cotton Belt). SP acquired the T&NO cars after the merger. I don't know of
any really good builder photos, but I would LOVE to have both the T&NO and
the SSW versions.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


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Re: Apalachicola Northern pulpwood cars

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Paul - Ed Hawkins lists all the regular and bulkhead flats built by ACF
between '43 and '57 were box car red. Now the pulpwood car in question was
homebuilt, but the ACF paint schemes would suggest box car red for these,
too. (And it isn't that flats built after '57 were a different color - they
may or may not have been - but just that Hawkins doesn't have any flats on
this list after that date for ACF.)
In RMJ's Freight Car Models, Vol. II, L&N box cars built by ACF in May
of 1946 were matched to an equal mix of Floquil Box Red and Rich Oxide Red,
and those built only a few months later, in September of that year, were
matched to Accupaint Rich Oxide Brown.
Box cars built earlier by ACF in 1941 were matched to a 75/25 mix of
Floquil Oxide Red/Southern Freight Car Brown, again with black roofs (July
1991 RMJ and also reprinted in their Vol. II).
There were double-door box cars built in January of 1947, featured in
the June 1992 RMJ. A class cars built in January of 1947 was matched to an
equal mix of Accupaint Oxide Brown and Rich Oxide Brown. All components,
except the roof which was black, was painted this color. (Three different
hues in cars built less than a year apart! So take your pick of hues and
then take your pick of which shade of Floquil colors because they shift so
much from batch to batch.)
As for the AN cars, I would guess yellow, but that is just a guess from
the photo. By the way, in '58, the series was 200-249, but none of the AN's
130 cars (flats, gons, and pulpwood cars) were "employed in interchange
service". - John
Now what color red?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Graf" <paul@atlasrr.com>
To: "John Nehrich" <nehrij@rpi.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: Apalachicola Northern pulpwood cars


At 09:30 AM 1/10/01 -0500, you wrote:

Didn't even know that AN had them. Do you know what colors the cars and
lettering were? Also, do you know the color of the body of the IC cars?




Paul - I assume you've seen this photo from the '57 Cyc.?
- John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Graf" <paul@atlasrr.com>
To: "John Nehrich (by way of Dawn Carey <dawn@atlasrr.com>)"
<nehrij@rpi.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2001 3:27 PM
Subject: Re: HO scale pulpwood cars


At 02:20 PM 1/9/01 -0500, you wrote:

The GM&O yellow scheme was the delivery scheme BUT some people in the
GM&OHS believe it was only applied to the first 2 cars, so only our -1
number would be correct in this case. We have not been able to
confirm
this in either direction, but all of the photos I have for higher
numbered
cars do have them in box car red with white lettering.

Thanks for the link, I was looking for a good shot of the L&N cars as
well
as more info on the IC cars, these will help.

IGN, MP, SP and NCStL also had these cars but we are having trouble
digging
up good photos of them to create artwork from.



Dear Atlas - You offer your GM&O pulpwood car in yellow with black
letters. Denis Blake said he thinks this is the as-built scheme. Is
it? (Since the cars were built about 1952, steam-era modelers would
want to know this scheme is useable that early.)
By the way, you probably have this information already, but
under
our web page
(http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Kits/Atlas-kits.htm
l),
I've identified four other versions of this car, including three
early
'50's photos.

- John Nehrich
Paul Graf
Atlas Model Railroad Co.
Paul Graf
Atlas Model Railroad Co.


Re: 38 foot IL Commonwealth pulpwood cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

At 09:34 AM 1/10/01 -0500, you wrote:
Paul Graf of Atlas is looking for photos from which to create the artwork
for other versions of their HO scale pulpwood car. Supposedly the Frisco,
Savannah & Atlanta, IGN, MP, SP and NCStL all had these, and maybe someone
knows of other such cars. (A spotting feature would be the 38 foot IL
between the bulkheads.)
- John Nehrich
John, "SP" didn't buy any, but T&NO (SP Texas lines) did, as did SSW (aka
Cotton Belt). SP acquired the T&NO cars after the merger. I don't know of
any really good builder photos, but I would LOVE to have both the T&NO and
the SSW versions.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


38 foot IL Commonwealth pulpwood cars

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Paul Graf of Atlas is looking for photos from which to create the artwork
for other versions of their HO scale pulpwood car. Supposedly the Frisco,
Savannah & Atlanta, IGN, MP, SP and NCStL all had these, and maybe someone
knows of other such cars. (A spotting feature would be the 38 foot IL
between the bulkheads.)
- John Nehrich


OOPS Re: Train shed Cyclopedias

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Sorry, I meant for that only to go to Byron, not to the list.
Forgive me.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: Train shed Cyclopedias

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Why Byron, that was surprisingly informative, and even civil! What's
gotten into you? Did you fall into a vat of honey? If this ever gets
out, your reputation will be ruined!

At 06:35 PM 1/9/01 -0500, you wrote:
Warren,

I think that a couple of people have got you started on the wrong foot.
The Train Sheds are only one small component of a very large library
available to modelers who are interested in freight cars.
Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: Train shed Cyclopedias

ibs4421@...
 

Byron,
Wow! and thanks! This is the type of info and encouragement
that I was looking for. I really enjoyed building aircraft and armor kits
in my youth, and was pretty darn good at it too. I just felt that it would
be a simple matter to transfer the skills to model railroad rolling stock.
Why? Well, a highly detailed P-51B looks wonderful, but just sits there. A
1937 ARA boxcar looks wonderful too, but it can do what its prototype did,
which is even better. Now, what I build will do more than collect dust, .
. . hopefully.
Ya'll can call me weird, but I have even thought of building RR kits
(sunshine, Westerfield, etc.) and not even having a model railroad. Seems
no different to me than building 1/72nd scale aircraft, and not having an
airport.
MorningSun has just released a new color book on L&N cars by one of my
sensei's, Steve Johnson, but it only goes as far back as 1945. I may have
to get it anyway.
Getting the cars right for my favorite roads (L&N, NC&StL, and TC) is
not that big of a problem for me as I belong to the L&NRRHS, but it's the
cars for other roads that I fear goofing up. I can't afford to belong to
too many societies, etc. Learning from all of ya'll about other railroads
and their rolling stock is why I'm here on this list. Who knows, one day I
might even be able to answer something for ya'll!

Warren
Ride The Battlefield Route!
Ride The Dixie Line!
NC&StL Rwy.


Re: Train shed Cyclopedias

byronrose@...
 

Warren,

I think that a couple of people have got you started on the wrong foot.
The Train Sheds are only one small component of a very large library
available to modelers who are interested in freight cars. Don't waste
your time chasing the proverbial wild goose looking for these because
they will only confuse you, especially if you are used to the "In
Actions" which are written especially for and to modelers. The Sheds are
simply excerpts from the very large volumes called "Car Builders
Dictioneries/Cyclopedias," published by the railroad industry from the
1880s to the present time, and used as references for the manufacture and
repair of the REAL railroad cars. The drawings are all engineering
drawings which take great knowledge and experience to interpret,
something that evades some of the better plan drawers in the model
fraternity.

I think your best starting point for an ongoing freight car education is
the model railroad magazines. Believing in the practice that every
magazine is new until you read it, seek out the hobby shops that sell old
issues of Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman and especially
Mainline Modeler and just thumb thru them. If you find one with a
freight car article/plan that is of the era that interests you, not
necessarily of a railroad or area that interests you, but of the era, buy
it. You will learn something from it. Maybe not for today but months
from now you'll see how all freight cars are of some use to all modelers.

Another important source of knowledge, especially if you want to get lots
of it in one fell swoop, comes in the form of books. The best overall
would be "The American Railroad Freight Car" by John White and published
by John Hopkins Press. I believe it's now in paperback, still weighing
about 10 pounds, but probably the best place to find out why certain
railroad cars are the way they are. Although it covers the subject only
thru the 1910s, it gives an excellent grounding in the subject.

Several other books which will give a good view of freight cars through
the years include Tony Thompsons PFE book (I'm sure Tony can fill you in
about it better than I), Richard Hendricksons ATSF Auto Car book (ditto
Richard), Keith Jordans SFRD book (ditto Keith if he's with us)(on the
STMFC that is), John Whites the Great Yellow Fleet (Refrigerator cars,
not . . . ) and Andrew Dows N&W Coal Cars. Although these books cover a
only a single railroad or industry, their freight cars histories were
similar to that of the entire railroad industry.

The next thing to seek out are the several series of books which present
freight cars in an easier to digest format, similar to but more scatter
gunned than the "In Actions," but without the nice little drawings
showings variations between marks of aircraft or armor, something not
comparable to railroad practices. The more useful series include but are
not limited to:

Best of Mainline Modeler Freight Cars, 5 volumes, readily available and
worthwhile
Freight Car Models from Railroad Model Journal, 2-3 vols, available
Classic Freight Car, the Series, 10-11 vols, later ones available,
earlier one worth seeking out
Color Guides to Freight and Passenger Equipment, RR by RR books by
Morning Sun Books, little pricey but good for the RRs you're into
Wayner Picture books, excellent photo albums, worth seeking
Freight Car Journal Monographs, some worthwhile, especially those by Eric
Neubauer
Railway Prototype Cyclopedia by Hawkins, Wider, et al, 5 softcovers
currently available and very worthwhile (closest in spirit to those "In
Actions")
Railroad Car Journal, 5 small softcover books, hard to find but worth
seeking

A last underlooked and underappreciated source of superb freight car
histories is the information/data packages that come with the kits from
Westerfield and Sunshine Models. These are actually the closest in
spirit to the "In Actions" of anything in this hobby of ours. Although
you should buy the kits to get them,. I'm sure there are some people we
all know who'd be willing to send you copies if you were to ask.

But don't overlook the first source I mentioned, old magazines. Oft
times, the kit producers write or sponsor articles in the magazines to
tout their forthcoming models. Other times magazines will run articles
relating to new (or even old) kits on the market, especially the
magazines edited by Bob Schleicher (MRJ last 10 years, MRG before that).
These are especially good at pointing you in the right direction for the
usefulness of a particular model for your own purposes.

I'm sure there are lots of things I'm forgetting to mention, but this is
the best I can do off the cuff. Unfortunately, the hobby of Model
Railroading has moved away from it's cousin hobbies in that most MRs are
more interesting in running trains and all too few are interested in
constructing accurate models. I think that is something that most of the
people reading this would like to change. Maybe someday someone will
realize the need for well illustrated publications like those
Squadron-Signal puts out for airplane, armor, and ship modelers. Till
then we have to seek out what we can, where we can. But don't be afraid
to seek out people, there are lots of them willing to help. You have but
to ask.

Byron Rose


On Tue, 09 Jan 2001 01:44:32 -0000 ibs4421@commandnet.net writes:
Fellow Listers,
I am very new to the group, and still consider myself

very new at trying to do some railroad modeling. I'm not entirely
sure if this is the place for this post or not, but I'll give it a
shot anyway.
I was bemoaning, on another list, the fact that as a plastic
modeler of the past, I had ammassed quite a collection of prototype
reference material in the form of inexpensive, horizontal format
books, ala the "Squadron In Action" series of books on armor,
aircraft, etc. I have not encountered anything like this since
trying to become a model railroader. I have spent quite a bit so
far, and still have VERY far to go in assembling a decent steam-era
library. I personally feel that books such as these, with tech.
drawings, photos of the cars & locos in service, etc. would be a
good
thing. Some have suggested I try getting hold of the "Train Shed
Cyclopedia" series of books. I remember seeing some of these in a
Walthers catalog at one time. Folks tell me I can pick them up at
shows. that would be great, but I don't get to go to shows.
Do any of ya'll know of a good mail order source for these
books? I do not have access to a local hobby shop to have them
order
them for me from Walthers. Thank you for your advice, replies, etc.

Warren
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Re: Train shed Cyclopedias

thompson@...
 

Warren asked:
Some have suggested I try getting hold of the "Train Shed
Cyclopedia" series of books. I remember seeing some of these in a
Walthers catalog at one time. Folks tell me I can pick them up at
shows. that would be great, but I don't get to go to shows.
These have been available at wholesale pretty recently, so stores could
carry them if they wanted (and they may still be so available). They should
not be hard to find via booksellers on the Web nor from train stores with
Web sites, e.g. Caboose Hobbies and the Original Whistle Stop.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Train shed Cyclopedias

ibs4421@...
 

Thanks Jeff for the info. BTW gize, sorry if my message hit your mailbox
three times. I must have gotten punchy with the "send" button at the
e-Groups site. :)

Warren


Re: Train shed Cyclopedias

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

Some of the Cyclopedias can be mail-ordered from hobby shops. The last
time I was there, The Train Shop in Santa Clara, CA had quite a few.

You can contact The Train Shop at " 408-296-1050 - Train Shop, 1829
Pruneridge Avenue, Santa Clara, CA 95050 " [Address & phone number
courtesy of
http://www.mcs.net/~weyand/www/tractronics/hobby_shops/hobby_shops.html#California
.


It is likely that other large hobby shops (e.g. Caboose Hobbies in Denver)
will also have some.

Regards,

-Jeff

On Jan 9, 1:44am, ibs4421@commandnet.net wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] Train shed Cyclopedias
Fellow Listers,
I am very new to the group, and still consider myself
very new at trying to do some railroad modeling. I'm not entirely
sure if this is the place for this post or not, but I'll give it a
shot anyway.
I was bemoaning, on another list, the fact that as a plastic
modeler of the past, I had ammassed quite a collection of prototype
reference material in the form of inexpensive, horizontal format
books, ala the "Squadron In Action" series of books on armor,
aircraft, etc. I have not encountered anything like this since
trying to become a model railroader. I have spent quite a bit so
far, and still have VERY far to go in assembling a decent steam-era
library. I personally feel that books such as these, with tech.
drawings, photos of the cars & locos in service, etc. would be a good
thing. Some have suggested I try getting hold of the "Train Shed
Cyclopedia" series of books. I remember seeing some of these in a
Walthers catalog at one time. Folks tell me I can pick them up at
shows. that would be great, but I don't get to go to shows.
Do any of ya'll know of a good mail order source for these
books? I do not have access to a local hobby shop to have them order
them for me from Walthers. Thank you for your advice, replies, etc.

Warren


To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



-- End of excerpt from ibs4421@commandnet.net
--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Train shed Cyclopedias

ibs4421@...
 

Fellow Listers,
I am very new to the group, and still consider myself
very new at trying to do some railroad modeling. I'm not entirely
sure if this is the place for this post or not, but I'll give it a
shot anyway.
I was bemoaning, on another list, the fact that as a plastic
modeler of the past, I had ammassed quite a collection of prototype
reference material in the form of inexpensive, horizontal format
books, ala the "Squadron In Action" series of books on armor,
aircraft, etc. I have not encountered anything like this since
trying to become a model railroader. I have spent quite a bit so
far, and still have VERY far to go in assembling a decent steam-era
library. I personally feel that books such as these, with tech.
drawings, photos of the cars & locos in service, etc. would be a good
thing. Some have suggested I try getting hold of the "Train Shed
Cyclopedia" series of books. I remember seeing some of these in a
Walthers catalog at one time. Folks tell me I can pick them up at
shows. that would be great, but I don't get to go to shows.
Do any of ya'll know of a good mail order source for these
books? I do not have access to a local hobby shop to have them order
them for me from Walthers. Thank you for your advice, replies, etc.

Warren


Train shed Cyclopedias

ibs4421@...
 

Fellow Listers,
I am very new to the group, and still consider myself
very new at trying to do some railroad modeling. I'm not entirely
sure if this is the place for this post or not, but I'll give it a
shot anyway.
I was bemoaning, on another list, the fact that as a plastic
modeler of the past, I had ammassed quite a collection of prototype
reference material in the form of inexpensive, horizontal format
books, ala the "Squadron In Action" series of books on armor,
aircraft, etc. I have not encountered anything like this since
trying to become a model railroader. I have spent quite a bit so
far, and still have VERY far to go in assembling a decent steam-era
library. I personally feel that books such as these, with tech.
drawings, photos of the cars & locos in service, etc. would be a good
thing. Some have suggested I try getting hold of the "Train Shed
Cyclopedia" series of books. I remember seeing some of these in a
Walthers catalog at one time. Folks tell me I can pick them up at
shows. that would be great, but I don't get to go to shows.
Do any of ya'll know of a good mail order source for these
books? I do not have access to a local hobby shop to have them order
them for me from Walthers. Thank you for you advice, replies, etc.

Warren


Re: Proto 2000 war emerg. hopper

Richard Hendrickson
 

Charlie, Santa Fe composite cars are included in the first release and it's
my understanding that the boat has docked; they may have been shipped
already. Models of the Santa Fe cars after they were steel sheathed in
1958 will be in the second release later this year.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Proto 2000 war emerg. hopper

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

The LL site lists the following;
ITEM #
ROADNAME AND NUMBER PAINT SCHEME

23799 Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe #180633 As Delivered: Oxide Brown w/ White
Lettering
23800 Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe #180658
23802 Baltimore & Ohio #30075 Black w/ White Lettering, Dome Herald
23803 Baltimore & Ohio #30257
23805 Chesapeake & Ohio #54253 As Delivered: Black w/ White Lettering
23806 Chesapeake & Ohio #54398
23808 Chicago, Burlington, & Quincy #194041 Oxide Red w/ White Lettering,
Slogans
23809 Chicago, Burlington, & Quincy #194529
23811 Gulf Mobile & Ohio #60026 Black w/ White Lettering, Early Scheme
23812 Gulf Mobile & Ohio #60143
23814 Louisville & Nashville #31024 As Delivered: Oxide Red w/ White
Lettering
23815 Louisville & Nashville #31972
23817 Undecorated


Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief system
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Proto 2000 war emerg. hopper

charles slater
 

Can anyone tell me if the Proto 2000 war emergency 2-bay hopper has been relieced yet? And if so, what road names is in the first reliece?
Charlie Slater
Bakersfield, Ca.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com


Re: Insulated Tank Car in RMC

Richard Hendrickson
 

Steve Hile wrote:

In the February RMC there is a brief kitbashing article where Dwight Smith
shortened the Athearn chemical tank car and frame and added a larger dome
and details. The results look nice. There is a prototype photo of this car
in TSC 12. Frankly, I have looked a number of times at the Athearn tank and
wondered what could be done with it, perhaps shortening it as Dwight did and
marrying it with the Tichy underframe.

Comments? Other/Better prototypes?
Steve, what Dwight did is a plausible kit-bash which results in a model
that's fairly close to being dimensionally accurate for a 10K gal. insulate
ICC-103 or ICC-104. I've contemplated doing something similar myself but
have never gotten around to it. One problem he didn't address is that the
Athearn tank bottom is the same one that's in the three dome tank kit, so
it is undersize and has a profusion of unprototypical rivets. That's not
hard to fix, however, by filing off the rivets and adding an outer layer of
styrene sheet. Depending on prototype, an InterMountain underframe might
be preferable to a Tichy underframe (and for a GATC car, the original
Athearn underframe can be shortened, as on the 10K gal. GATC ICC-103 model
I wrote about in RMJ two or three years ago).

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Insulated Tank Car in RMC

Steve and Barb Hile
 

In the February RMC there is a brief kitbashing article where Dwight Smith
shortened the Athearn chemical tank car and frame and added a larger dome
and details. The results look nice. There is a prototype photo of this car
in TSC 12. Frankly, I have looked a number of times at the Athearn tank and
wondered what could be done with it, perhaps shortening it as Dwight did and
marrying it with the Tichy underframe.

Comments? Other/Better prototypes?

Thanks
Steve Hile


Freight car trucks web site

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

http://www.worldrailfans.org/USA/General/Trucks/Trucks.htm

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts

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