Date   

Re: The F&SM Strikes Again

Tom L <tom7502@...>
 

The number I had heard a few years back was about 1
out of every 100 are prototype modelers. Numbers were
based on a manufacturers survey that I can't remember
was done by. Having been in the model railraod
business for fifteen years I tend to agree with those
numbers. Tom
--- Gene Green <willibecher@...> wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., "Paul La Ciura"
<paul@j...> wrote:
That brings up a question, I wonder if anyone
knows what percentage
of
"model railroaders" are prototype modelers?

Paul
San Jose
Has "prototype modeler" been defined somewhere?

Gene Green


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Re: The F&SM Strikes Again

asychis@...
 

In a message dated 08/16/03 6:33:50 AM Central Standard Time,
cepropst@... writes:

I wonder if anyone knows what percentage
of
"model railroaders" are prototype modelers?
Acording to the editorial in the latest MR, 10% of layouts are strictly
prototype, 40 % are freelance and 50% are protoype-based with "flexibility."

As to the comments on F&SM and Malcom Furlough. Who cares? I thought that
model railroading was a big tent and if you didn't like some aspect of it, you
could just ignore it. We talk about freight cars to the nth degree, aren't
others allowed to pursue their interests, whether we like them or not, to the
same extent? We "prototype" modelers have been called snobs before. The sorts
of messages being posted here do nothing to alleviate that appellation. Let's
get back to rivets!

Jerry Michels


Re: The F&SM Strikes Again

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Gene,
Look under disciplined!
Clark

Gene Green wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Paul La Ciura" <paul@j...> wrote:
That brings up a question, I wonder if anyone knows what percentage
of
"model railroaders" are prototype modelers?

Paul
San Jose
Has "prototype modeler" been defined somewhere?

Gene Green


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Rutland Rail Size

CBarkan@...
 

Lewis does not cite a source but my guess would be railroads' annual reports
to the ICC where a great deal of detail on assets was, and still is, reported.
The reports would not contain the exact amout of each rail size, but simply
place it in various size categories. A five-mile error doesn't particularly
surprise me.

Chris

In a message dated 8/15/03 9:54:57 AM, newrail@... writes:

<< But I wonder if Lewis cites a source for his information.

I wonder because while B&M and NH figures look about right it occurs to me

that the Rutland actually had more than 5 miles of 105 lb. Dudley rail in

place over Mt. Holly summit (on the Bellows Falls Sub.) and Churubusco (on

the O&LC) by 1951. >>


Re: Quad Hoppers

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

Bethlehem Car Works sells ends to convert the Bowser H21A, but the H21A
rib profile differs from that of the H25.
Interesting thing about the H25 (and its H24 semi-prototype) is that the
rib profile was borrowed from the rarer-than-rare Gv. I wonder who in the
Pennsy design office decided to pull *that* drawing from its repose in
1916?

David Thompson


Re: ADMIN: Wheels have rolled far enough (8:40PM PDT)

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Mike, it is still 8:40 PM PDT!

I really have to take polite exception to your summary statement #2 about .088" wheels derailing on frogs above #8.

I will not be so foolish as to say "never", but I can say with the confidence of good repeatable observation in real experience in real time with multiple tests, that at least with one manufacturer's wheels (Reboxx, the ones that I happen to have), this simply has not proved out to be true in any sense.

On the common "test" route on my layout, my test train with a majority of cars (about 30 of mixed parentage) with .088" wheels, the train will traverse two curved 83 #12's and four 83 #10s. It will also traverse one 83#8 double slip, one 70 #6 double slip, several 70 and 83 #8s, and one 70 #6. Not once (that is, not once) has any of these cars with narrow wheels yet derailed at any of these frogs. Do they drop into the frogs? They may well, but if so it has not been brought to my attention, even when I purposely observe (as I just did several minutes ago).

Have I had derailments, yes, but never yet at a frog with any truck or car with .088" wheels, and the derailments have so far all been related to other track and other wheel issues (the reason why I run this test train).

Can I back this 40 car train through these broad turnouts? Yes, I have done that successfully several times (for other reasons).

I have a ten car push/pull passenger train that has all .088" wheels, and I have operated it in push mode for hours on end (hypnosis!) through this same smorgasbord of turnouts at high speeds, also without a single problem at any frog at any time.

I truly believe that the theoretical problem of .088" wheels derailing at the frogs of larger number turnouts should remain just that, one that at least in my hands cannot be currently validated.

Denny




--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA


Re: [steamloco] Quad Hoppers

Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
 

David Thompson wrote:
The list pretty much begins and ends with the H21a (Bowser), the H25, and
the
ARA offset-side quad (Athearn).

I'd certainly welcome a modern resin Class H25 kit. Bethlehem Car Works
sells ends to convert the Bowser H21A, but the H21A rib profile differs from
that of the H25. I've got several more of the Roller Bearing Model kits,
but after finishing one of them, I'm not in a hurry to start the next one.
(As a joke, I gave Ray Hessinger one of them for his birthday. Good thing I
kept a couple of P2K freight car kits for the real present, because a beat
down was probably on the way.)


Ben Hom


HO Items for Sale

golden1014
 

Brothers,

I need to raise some money for track and benchwork, so
the following HO items are my initial offering. As
I've said in the past, I'm not out to make a buck on
my friends so the first reasonable offer for each item
(items) will be accepted. A few of the new items have
hard prices so I can recoup my funds. Please contact
me off-list at Golden1014@.... Thanks!

1. P2K ACL E-7 Purple A&B, Sold as set, #529, slight
weathering with KD#5s installed. No original box. Test
run only. I am the original owner. First reasonable
offer will be accepted.

2. P2K ACL E-6 Purple A&B, Sold as set, #504, no
weathering, mint, no original box. Test run only. I am
the original owner. First reasonable offer will be
accepted.

3. Sunshine B&O Kit #58.1, B&O M-27 w/lap seam roof
and 1-1/2 door, new. $38.00 includes shipping. Will
trade for Sunshine Milw ribside 40' box car if you
have one!

4. P2K SAL E-7 A&B, Orange Blossom scheme, Sold as
set, #3027A and #3107B. B unit has powered underframe
from P2K E-8. Slight weathering, mint, no original
box. Test run only. I am the orginal owner. First
reasonable offer will be accepted.

5. Stewart Central of Georgia F-3A shells (two
available) blue/gray/orange custom painted by master
painter Bob Harpe. Wire grabs, lift rings, MU hoses,
other details with Kadee #58 couplers. Shell only.
These are beautifully finished--I can send a photo if
you're interested. I paid $135.00 for each shell and
will sell one for $135.00 or both for $250.00. I pay
shipping. No original box.

6. This one's gonna hurt, but I could use the cash.
Overland M&St.L bay window caboose, OMI #3891, 1994
run. Unpainted, mint in original box. A rare but
beautiful model. $175.00 firm, I pay shipping.

That's it. More to follow in a few months.
John Golden
O'Fallon, IL

=====


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Re: ADMIN: Wheels have rolled far enough

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

Blithely ignoring Mike's

So...let's terminate the wheel discussions by 11PM EDT tonight.
I wanna pick a bone about his summary statement (in both senses of the word
"summary")

2. These wheels will operate very well on HO scale track and frogs built
to
NMRA standard S-3 as long as the frog numbers are less than 10. Turnouts
with frog numbers above 8 will allow the wheel to drop into the gap
between
the frog point and wing rail. This will not, necessarily, cause a
derailment
but as the frog number increases past #10, the dangers of derailment will
increase. Emperical data will tell the story on derailments on number 10
frogs.
As I said, Mike, Tim and I have operated trains with 088 wheels all around
the North Shore Club layout, Tim more than me, and Tim with more 088
equipped cars than I have (or than I own yet) where we have many switches >
No 8, and we have no problems.

5. Any wheel size will operate best on track frogs built to match the
wheel
size...whatever it is. Thus, using wheels of more than one code...say,
true
88 and 110, on the same track invites problems.
This happens all the time in our case, again, no problems.

Anyone with additional comments on this summary are certainly welcome to
add
them...until 11 PM.
Hey, cut me some slack, I didn't even get on line until about 10:30!

SGL


Re: Code 88 Wheels & Track - Really Off-Topic, But...

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathe Robin" <kathe@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Code 88 Wheels & Track - Really Off-Topic, But...


Tony Koester ran a WM 2-10-0 of mine for over 10 years, which CB
imported and Daiyong manufactured with hard chromed tires. When rebuilt
and weighted (over 2 pounds) it would slip w/10 empty Athearn hoppers on
straight level track. After machining off the chrome on the face of the
tire and the tread, same engine would pull 18 live load hoppers, plus a
brass caboose up 2 1/2%, 30" helix every time. Driver tires were made
of nickle silver (determined by spectroanalysis and grain structure on
electron microscope).
Max, if those Athearn Hoppers had Reboxx wheels, you 1) could have pulled
the ten, and 2) probably could pull 24 or more up the helix.

SGL


Re: [steamloco] Quad Hoppers

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

At 09:36 AM 8/15/03 -0400, you wrote:
Getting back to freight cars ,there is not much of a choice in the
available models of quad hoppers.Any chance of seeing a greater variety?
There weren't that many common steam-era quad hoppers to begin with. The
list pretty much begins and ends with the H21a (Bowser), the H25, and the
ARA offset-side quad (Athearn). Probably the most common car after those
was the C&O skirted quad which almost no one has even heard of.

Davd Thompson


Re: Code 88 Wheels & Track - Really Off-Topic, But...

Andy Carlson
 

At the risk of being accused of favoritism (too late,
perhaps), for really fine looking track, the Central
Valley tie strip which Jack Parker makes, offers tie
plates and scale dimensioned ties in both "Mainline
track, featureing 9' ties with mainline spacing; and
the "Branchline" tie strip, which has 8'6" unevenly
spaced ties. Gauging is assured by simply glueing in
rail in the code 70 and 83 sizes, code 55 and 40
require using a track gauge. Right-of-way rail from
Chowchilla, CA offers the BEST drawn code 83 rail,
with very accurate cross section, something all other
rails lack. Jack uses the Barges Contact Cement
available from Shoe Repir Shops. Stuf stays flexable
for over 15 years, something the narrow gauge guys
found out Goodyear Pliobond could not do to their
dissmay. If you buy direct from jack, he can be
pursuaded to throw in some of his track joining bars,
one sprue has Code40,55,70, and 83. Lee freeman did
his home layout with this system which was featured in
RMJ about 1 1/2 years ago. The tie system can be glued
to door skin (Luan) plywood with MEK or other styrene
solvents. Scale Accumate couplered and P87 wheelset
equiped X29 PRR boxcars look their best on this kind
of track.
-Andy Carlson

--- Mike Brock <brockm@...> wrote:

Shawn Beckert writes:

"Various hobby shop employees have said to me that
the HO-Scale
track made by Micro Engineering is the best there
is. Is it?


Re: Wheels on STEFCars.

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@...>

My suggestion to good suppliers like Branch Line and Don Valentine is
to take the initiative, push the envelope, and start supplying their
cars routinely with .088" wheels. It pushes things firmly up a notch.
Hear! Hear!

Or should that be:
Read! Read!

SGL


ADMIN: Enough of George Selios' Layout

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

And...I think we've heard enough about George Selios' layout, Thomas and
other ficticious railroad's equipment. Time to get back to the chartered
stuff. For those that don't remember, North American standard gauge frt cars
of the period 1900-1960. Soooo...if you want to beat up on ol' George or
John Allen, let's get it done by 11:00 PM EDT. Thanks.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: PFE R-40-2

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Glenn, there is a photo of PFE 37941 in Tony's PFE book on
page 113 (first edition).

The lettering placement in set MC-4240 is for an R-40-10.
For the original R-40-2, the roadname and other data to the
left of the door is somewhat higher than for the R-40-10.
If you draw a straight horizontal line through the middle
door hinge (the 2nd hinge) then the "P.F.E." stencil would
sit on that line. The "Ventilated Refrigerator" letters would
be just below that line, to the right of the door. The data
lettering for 1920's cars is different than the 1939 data of
that R-40-10.

Sigh. Maybe you should just buy the book! :o)


I'm building a Tichy R-40-2 and want to back date it to as built. I
was trying to find a picture on the web but had no success. I also
did a search of STMFC postings to see if this topic had been
covered but didn't find any.I have a set of Microscale decals MC-
4240 but their picture is of little help since the diagram in with
the decals is of a steel sided car. I wonder if the decal set is
even correct for this car. They do include a road number which
appears to be correct(37941). This is the only one of these I intend
to model so I don't want to buy a book on the subject. Could someone
please help me?

TIA,

Glenn Joppich
Redford, MI

Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> -->> NOTE EMAIL CHANGE <<--
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: The F&SM Strikes Again

pieter_roos <pieter.roos@...>
 

I seem to recall reading that a lesser known Marx brother was in fact
a model railroader, and operated in the group with Minton Cronkite of
Chicagfo Museum of Science and Industry layout fame. The latter must
be figured as one of the first "prototype modelers" as we would
recognize the term today.

I also seem to recall reading that some of George Selios' operating
crew were the ones "correcting" his roster gaffs. Maybe they ewere
not there the day of the photo shoot. There is a recent Keller
video of a layout that the builder stresses at length is very much
correct for the late summer of 1947, even to the locomotive
appliences being correctly for a given engine at that time. But
what about the 50ft Shock Control ATSF boxcar that trails his local
freight's steamer the whole run around the layout? I'm afraid Selios
is more in the hobby "mainstream" than we are, for whatever that's
worth.

For those whose comments extend to chastising MR for their coverage of
Malcom Furlow's latest, please look at the "Edge of the City" layout
in the same issue which certainly fits the "prototype modeler" ethos
(and even includes a coulpe of pretty nice borderline steam era
freight cars among all the more modern stuff).

Pieter


--- In STMFC@..., Terry Harrison <nkpman@e...> wrote:
Look at it this way, maybe Malcoms' latest offering is an
adaptation
of what the Marx brothers layout would have looked like if they were
in
modeling.

Terry


Re: Code 88 Wheels & Track - Really Off-Topic, But...

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Shawn Beckert writes:

"Various hobby shop employees have said to me that the HO-Scale
track made by Micro Engineering is the best there is. Is it?
I have no idea what code or "standards" it's made to, but have
any of the discerning and experienced modelers here used this
brand - and how does it work with Semi-Scale wheels under scale
Steam-Era Freight Cars?"

Looking at AREA 131+ lb rail in the 1955 Track &
Structure Cyc I note that the sizes show a range of:

Height : 7 1/8"- 7 1/16"
Base: 6"
Head: 3"

130 lb rail:
Height: 6 3/4"
Base: 6"
Head: 3"

The other sizes have similar ranges. 100 lb shows H=6", Base= 5 3/8-5 1/2",
head= 2 3/4"

I carefully measured code 83 ME rail and track and found it to be right on
the money for AREA 133 lb rail. Height: 7.22", Base: 6", Head: 3", Middle:
around 1" +/- 1/4". Ties are 8.5' in length, width: 7". These numbers match
AREA specs given that I can't measure less than 0.1" in HO. I believe that both tie plates and spikes are close to scale as well.
Andy Sperandeo told me, if I recall correctly, that Santa Fe used ties 9 ft in length.

If you're asking about turnouts, crossings etc., I don't have a clue.

Mike Brock


Re: The F&SM Strikes Again

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

In that case we might as well discuss the merits of Thomas
and the freight car fleet of the Island of Sodor...
Ya know, those freight cars on the Island of Sodor are always giving
Thomas and his friends a heck of a time... ;-)

Ben Hom
Don't I know it Ben! So, since those Sodor freight cars are so
naughty, do you know where I can find some "naughty bit" details
for them?

Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> -->> NOTE EMAIL CHANGE <<--
Sterling, Massachusetts


PFE R-40-2

gjopp1 <gjopp@...>
 

Hi guys,

I'm building a Tichy R-40-2 and want to back date it to as built. I
was trying to find a picture on the web but had no success. I also
did a search of STMFC postings to see if this topic had been
covered but didn't find any.I have a set of Microscale decals MC-
4240 but their picture is of little help since the diagram in with
the decals is of a steel sided car. I wonder if the decal set is
even correct for this car. They do include a road number which
appears to be correct(37941). This is the only one of these I intend
to model so I don't want to buy a book on the subject. Could someone
please help me?

TIA,

Glenn Joppich
Redford, MI


Re: The F&SM Strikes Again

Terry Harrison <nkpman@...>
 

Look at it this way, maybe Malcoms' latest offering is an adaptation of what the Marx brothers layout would have looked like if they were in modeling.

Terry

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