Date   

Timken freight cars

Bob Weston
 

Hi Guys!
Sometime in the late '40s early '50s the Timken Roller Bearing
Company painted several freight cars in color schemes to promote it's
products. I've seen pictures of two boxcars in different schemes. Or
was it one boxcar in two schemes? One car was done in conjunction
with the Akron, Canton and Youngstown RR, I believe it was numbered
600. There was also a gondola painted in red and white and blue. I've
also heard that a tank car may have been painted for the Timken Co.
Unfortunatly the company no longer has info on these cars. Can
someone provide info? Thanks!
Bob Weston


Re: Big Boy CD

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Tim,
I don't know the dates. The SP cars were going both right to left and left to right. Sorry, I couldn't resist! The
CD belongs to a friend living in another town. I was visiting him. I'll ask the date of the film next time I see him.
Clark Propst


tim gilbert wrote:

Clark Propst wrote:

I had the opportunity to see some of the Big Boy CD that Mike talks
about from time to time. I spaced out on the engines, but have these
observations about the freight cars. There was quite a difference in
box
car red, cars were distinctive, the car colors didn't run together in
the train. There was a definite difference in car height. The trains
were lousy with SP cars. I did use the DVD for it's main purpose,
pause,
I tried to read the number on a 54000 series M&StL car.
Clark,

What were the date(s) of the tape? And what direction were the SP
(box?)cars were running?

Thanks, Tim Gilbert


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Re: Big Boy CD

tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:

The black and white footage was done...I believe...in 1953. I am
reasonably certain now that the train with 36 or so SP box
cars...headed by 4005 I think...was headed west just west of
Buford,WY.
Mike,

Can I assume that these westbound SP Boxcars were empty? If so, it might
be another indication that the UP blocked empty westbound boxcars in
both Nebraska and Sherman Hill into "extra" trains in much they blocked
empty westbound reefers.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Big Boy CD

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim Gilbert asks about the Big Boy tape:

What were the date(s) of the tape? And what direction were the SP
(box?)cars were running?

The black and white footage was done...I believe...in 1953. I am reasonably certain now that the train with 36 or so SP box cars...headed by 4005 I think...was headed west just west of Buford,WY. BTW, Clark, note the train entering Hermosa tunnel...headed I think by 4023. One SP box car as I recall. Check out the wood PFE reefer with the single herald....and the hopper. C&EI if I remnember correctly.

Mike Brock


Funaro B&O P11 Flat car

ian clasper <ian@...>
 

Hi Guys

I am building a Funaro B&O P11 Flat car and need the following
questions resolving (Hopefully I will have it finished and loaded for
Naperville)

1. The instructions suggest using Kadee PRR trucks (ARA type Y)
however the photo on the the rear of the instructions appear to be
one of the many flavours of AAR cast frames. Would I be right in
using a pair of Accurail "Bettendorf" trucks for a post war car ?

2. A set of drawings in the instructions show cramer cut levers,
however the photo again shows something different. It would appear to
be a normal cut lever however it looks to be mounted onto the top
deck of the flat car. The image is rather fuzzy so I cannot tell if
this an intentional placing of the cut lever bracket or is it damaged
and just placed onto the deck. Anyone know what I should model ?

Thanks
Ian Clasper


Re: Big Boy CD

tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Clark Propst wrote:

I had the opportunity to see some of the Big Boy CD that Mike talks
about from time to time. I spaced out on the engines, but have these
observations about the freight cars. There was quite a difference in
box
car red, cars were distinctive, the car colors didn't run together in
the train. There was a definite difference in car height. The trains
were lousy with SP cars. I did use the DVD for it's main purpose,
pause,
I tried to read the number on a 54000 series M&StL car.
Clark,

What were the date(s) of the tape? And what direction were the SP
(box?)cars were running?

Thanks, Tim Gilbert


Insley Excavator as an HO scale flat car load

Rob Adams
 

Do any of you have knowledge of the early product lines of Insley
Manufacturing Company of Indianapolis,IN?

Was the Indianapolis plant their only manufacturing facility?

What railroad(s) was the Insley plant serviced by?

What model of excavator does the Woodland Scenics kit represent and for
what time period was it manufactured?

Did Insley have a "standard color" that they painted their equipment? (a
la John Deere green, IH Red, AC Orange, etc.)

Assuming these were shipped by rail, one must ask to what extent they
were assembled. It appears as though they would present clearance
problems on the right of way if fully assembled on a standard flat car.

Is anyone aware of photos showing such equipment loaded for shipment?

Thanks in advance.

Kind regards, Rob Adams


Big Boy CD

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I had the opportunity to see some of the Big Boy CD that Mike talks
about from time to time. I spaced out on the engines, but have these
observations about the freight cars. There was quite a difference in box
car red, cars were distinctive, the car colors didn't run together in
the train. There was a definite difference in car height. The trains
were lousy with SP cars. I did use the DVD for it's main purpose, pause,
I tried to read the number on a 54000 series M&StL car.
Clark propst


Re: 2 grab irons

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@y...> wrote:
Glad to see that others have recognized that not all freight cars
were refitted with a second grab iron on the left after the
industry-
wide edict in 1933.

I recall photos taken about 1940 of either PFE or SFRD reefers with
1
grab iron on the left.

Obviously the "grab iron" police were not as efficient as our
own "prototype modeling" police. Were the GI police connected with
the federal government?

Several weeks ago I checked in on the progress of the resheathing of
the Wabash auto car at the Atlanta, IL grain elevator museum. They
had managed to put FOUR grab irons on the left side. No one was
working on the car and I have not been able to contact anyone there.

Chet French
Dixon, IL, but visiting Murfreesboro, TN


Re: coal gons

tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

armand premo wrote:

Would one consider the Erie 45100 series coal carrying
gons
ERIE's series #45000-45599 had the Mechanical Designation of "GT" which
was defined as "An open top car, having high sides and ends and solid
bottom, suitable for unloading coal on dumping machines only, but not
suitable for the mill trade."

Tim Gilbert


Re: coal gons

armprem
 

Would one consider the Erie 45100 series coal carrying gons
?Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: <thompson@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2003 10:44 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] coal gons


Tim Gilbert writes, in discussing ICC statistics:
The "GS" designation meant that the Gon had a "Side Dump Drop Bottom,"
while a "GA" meant that the gon had a "Center Dump Drop Bottom" -
"Center Dump" meaning that a load could be dropped between the rails
while the load was dumped to the side for a "Side Dump" Gon. In the back
of the ORER's, there is a section which provides more detail about the
various Mechanical Designations.
Tim is entirely right, but these are not ICC designations,they are AAR
mechanical designations (and before that, MCB and ARA). The definitions in
the back of the ORER are likewise AAR--except the ICC tank car
classifications.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history




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Web site

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

At long last, I have started to make some updates to the web site. The "work thing" continues to get in the way of the important stuff. However, I expect to have many new things in the coming weeks in addition to what is there now.

The url is: www.steamfreightcars.com

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Re: Help - Looking for Sunshine kits

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Rob, if you had the mini-kit for the T&P express box car,
I would trade you in a flash!


Minikit CB&Q FM-11/FM-11A flat car

Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> -->> NOTE EMAIL CHANGE <<--
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: 1956-1958 Boxcars on the SN/WP -

tim gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Garth Groff asked me if I could supply him with 1956-1958 boxcar data in
order that he could apply some of the guidelines about the distribution
of ownership I espoused to Tom Laware in 1952 to his circa 1956-1958
SN/WP.

The problem with extrapolating the 1952 data into even 1956 was that
there might be significant changes in boxcar utilization. The ICC seemed
to recognize this when, in their fleet totals published in their BLUE
BOOKS, they separated "Special Service" from "General Service" Boxcars.

"Special Service" Boxcars included cars designated XAP, XAR, XML, XMP,
XMR & XT. "General Service" Boxcars included those cars designated LC,
XI, XM, XME, VA, VM & VS. (RBL's would have been classified as Reefers.)

The first step of this analysis is to compare the boxcars reported in a
March-April 1956 UP Wheel Report between Grand Island and Council Bluffs
with the Fall 1947 one between Rawlins and Laramie. Granted the two
Reports reflect cars on two different divisions during two different
seasons, still there might be something which is "different" which may
portend a trend. First a summary of Car Types reported by Conductor Novi
in 1956:

Eastbound Westbound Combined
Loads MT's Loads MT's Total % Total
Boxcars - Gen'l 351 21 206 - 578 53.2%
Boxcars - Spec. 20 44 20 - 84 7.7%
Boxcars - Total 371 65 226 - 662 61.0%

Gondolas 13 11 19 - 43 4.0%
Hoppers 1 3 3 - 7 0.6%
Cov. Hoppers 7 2 - 3 12 1.1%
Total Hops&Gons 21 16 22 3 62 5.7%

Reefers 41 18 40 152 251 23.1%
Tank Cars 11 4 4 10 29 2.7%
Stock Cars 7 3 13 - 23 2.1%
Flat Cars 10 2 12 2 26 2.4%
MOW & Other 1 9 17 6 35 3.2%

Total 462 117 334 173 1,086 100.0%

The luck of the draw dictated that Conductor Novi's trains were weighted
heavily with boxcars, both loaded and empty, eastbound while westbound
the weight favored loaded boxcars and reefers.

The next step is to compare what types boxcars Novi reported vs. what
Fraley did on the Wyoming Division in 1947 - for the 1947 numbers, I
have retroactively split Special Service Boxcars from General Service.

Eastbound Westbound Combined
1956 Loads MT's Loads MT's Total % Total
Boxcars - Gen'l 351 21 206 - 578 87.3%
Boxcars - Spec. 20 44 20 - 84 12.7%
Boxcars - Total 371 65 226 - 662 100.0%

1947
Boxcars - Gen'l 272 12 356 - 640 82.3%
Boxcars - Spec. 38 2 74 - 114 14.7%
Box - Unknown - - - 23 23 3.0%
Boxcars - Total 310 14 430 23 777 100.0%

The only westbound empty Boxcars in either wheel report were a block in
one train of 23 in 1947 with the owner not being listed by Conductor
Novi. (I suspect that the 23 Empty Westbound Boxcar block in 1947 was
the result of a Car Service Bureau Order which required to deliver a
number of empty boxcars to a connecting road to the west - prime suspect
- SP at Ogden.) Mike Brock has noted previously that there were
westbound empty boxcar blocks in the 1949 UP Wheel Report which he has
yet to parsed.

Is this an indication that the UP's operating practice to haul empty
boxcars westbound in trains in a manner similar to the way empty reefers
were dispatched westward? If so, somebody else than Novi was the
conductor of that empty boxcar train. March and April would appear to be
too early for the UP to begin hoarding empty boxcars for the Grain Rush.

The biggest difference between 1947 and 1956 would be the percent loaded
boxcars which were eastbound.

Percent Loaded Boxcars - Eastbound
1947 1956
General Service 95.8% 94.4%
Special Service 95.0% 31.3%
All Boxcars 95.7% 84.5%

In 1947, 75% of the Eastbound Special Service Boxcars were loaded with
Lumber as the UP appear to have reloaded Auto and Auto Parts (76% of the
westbound Special Service Boxcar loads) with Lumber.

In 1956, it would appear that the westbound Loaded Automobile Cars were
returned to the Mid-Western manufacturers empty - this included a number
of UP cars. Only 20% of Special Service cars were loaded with Forest
Products plus another 5% with autos eastbound.

The increased percentage of eastbound empties may be due to a number of
factors:

1) The 1947 cars did not include any which delivered autos to the area
east of Sherman Hill while the 1956 cars could have.

2) The Fall 1947 Boxcar shortage may have forced using Special Service
cars for eastbound lumber loads because not enough General Service Cars
were available in the West. The severity of that car shortage was a
great deal less in 1956 if there was a shortage at all.

3) A more seasonal demand may have the supply of empty General Service
cars for the Grain Rush east of Sherman Hill which, in turn, caused a
shortage of these cars for lumber loading to the West. In March & April,
there was not much grain traffic.

The correlation of the distribution of owners of Special Service Boxcars
between the amounts reported and the percentages of cars owned was not
very high per the following:

SPECIAL SERVICE BOXCARS
Region Per Wheel 12/31/1956
Report Roster Variance
# % # % #
Total 84 100.0 53,912 100.0
UP (Home) 26 26.0 3,016 5.6
Foreign 58 74.0 50,894 94.4

Foreign 58 100.0 50,894 100.0 0.0 0.0%
New England 0 - 70 0.1 ( 0.8)
Great Lakes 29 50.0 14,645 28.8 12.3 42.4%
Central East 6 10.3 12,064 23.7 ( 7.8) (129.3%)
Pocahontas 1 1.7 1,501 3.0 ( 0.7) ( 71.2%)
Southern 6 10.3 4,122 8.1 1.3 21.6%
Northwest 6 10.3 3,336 6.6 2.2 36.6%
C West ex-UP 6 10.3 11,515 22.6 ( 7.1) (118.9%)
Southwest 4 6.5 3,643 7.2 ( 0.2) ( 3.9%)

The wide range of variances was attributable in the main to the Boxcars
in Assigned Service such as cars utilized for Automobile and Auto Parts
Loads. Assigned Service meant that there were loads out and empties back
which effectively reduced the percent loaded cars in that service to
50%. That meant they were not free rollers to the extent of having no
routing or reloading restrictions. Not all Special Service Boxcars were
in Assigned Service - the earliest published estimate I have for that
percentage is for the year 1964 when it was 70% of all Special Service
Boxcars.

Because of the car shortage shortly after the War, even for the few cars
in Assigned Service, they were reloaded with commodities like Lumber for
customers back east. In 1956, there was less of a car shortage, and the
auto companies were far more demanding in having a dedicated fleet.

Now to see what the General Service Boxcars correlation between cars
reported versus the 12/31/1956 roster.

GENERAL SERVICE BOXCARS
Region Per Wheel 12/31/1956
Report Roster Variance
# % # % # %
Total 578 100.0 673,747 100.0
UP (Home) 53 9.2 24,701 3.7
Cdn & Misc 10 1.7
US Foreign 515 89.1 649,046 96.3

US Foreign 515 100.0 649,046 100.0 0.0 0.0%
New England 7 1.4 17,500 2.7 ( 6.9) ( 88.4%)
Great Lakes 114 22.1 114,594 17.7 23.1 20.2%
Central East 80 15.5 108,393 16.7 ( 6.0) ( 7.5%)
Pocahontas 28 5.4 31,333 4.8 3.1 11.0%
Southern 69 13.4 96,069 14.8 ( 7.2) ( 10.5%)
Northwest 95 18.4 106,704 16.4 10.3 10.9%
C West ex-UP 84 16.3 113,106 17.4 ( 5.8) ( 6.8%)
Southwest 39 7.6 61,347 9.5 ( 9.7) ( 24.8%)

Certainly, the extremes of the percent variance were better for General
Service Boxcars (minus 88.4% for little New England, minus 24.8% for the
Southwest Region vs. plus 20.2% for the Great Lakes Region)) than for
Special Service Boxcars (minus 129.3% for the Central East, minus 118.9%
for the Central West ex UP vs. plus 42.4% for the Great Lakes Region).

The correlation between Boxcars Reported and the Boxcars Owned was a lot
better for General Service Boxcars than for Special Service Boxcars
mostly because of the almost 95% loaded cars eastbound vs. only a 31%
eastbound loaded rate for Special Service Cars.

The combined General & Special Service Boxcar correlation between the
1956 Novi Wheel Report of the UP Eastern Nebraska Main Line looks like
this:

TOTAL BOXCARS
Region Per Wheel 12/31/1956
Report Roster Variance
# % # % # %
Total 662 100.0 727,659 100.0
UP (Home) 79 11.9 27,717 3.8
Misc. & Cdn. 10 1.5
US Foreign 573 86.6 699,942 96.2

US Foreign 573 100.0 699,642 100.0 0.0 0.0
New England 7 1.2 17,570 2.5 ( 7.4) (105.5)
Great Lakes 143 25.0 129,239 18.5 37.5 26.0
Central East 86 15.0 120,457 17.2 (12.6) ( 14.7)
Pocahontas 27 4.7 32,834 4.7 0.1 0.4
Southern 75 13.1 100,191 14.3 ( 7.0) ( 9.4)
Northwest 101 17.6 110,040 15.7 10.9 10.8
C West ex UP 90 15.7 124,621 17.8 (12.0) ( 13.4)
Southwest 43 7.5 64,990 9.3 (10.2) ( 23.7)

Below is a table showing the 12/31/1956 Class I Boxcars Fleet broken
down into Regions and all roads owning more than 1% of the National
Fleet using percentages. No roads are shown for the New England Region
because no road owned more than 1% of the national fleet. The DT&I and
MKT are shown only because they owned more than 1% of the national fleet
of Special Service Boxcars.

Region/Road Gen'l Special Total
Total Class I 673,747 53,912 727,659
Total Class I 100.0% 100.0% 100.0%
New England 2.6% 0.1% 2.4%

Great Lakes 17.0% 27.2% 17.8%
NYC 7.7% 16.3% 8.4%
WAB 1.5% 3.3% 1.6%
NKP 1.6% 1.3% 1.6%
ERIE 1.5% 2.5% 1.5%
GTW 1.1% 2.4% 1.2%
DL&W 1.0% 0.4% 1.0%
P&LE 1.0% 0.0% 0.9%

Central East 16.1% 22.4% 16.6%
PRR 8.9% 13.6% 9.2%
B&O 3.8% 4.6% 3.9%
RDG 1.1% 0.1% 1.0%
DT&I 0.2% 3.5% 0.4%

Pocahontas 4.7% 2.8% 4.5%
C&O 3.1% 2.5% 3.1%
N&W 1.4% 0.3% 1.4%

Southern 14.3% 7.6% 13.8%
SOU 3.0% 2.2% 3.0%
IC 2.7% 2.3% 2.7%
ACL 2.1% - 1.9%
SAL 1.9% 0.2% 1.7%
L&N 1.8% 0.4% 1.7%
GM&O 1.1% 2.4% 1.2%

Northwest 15.8% 6.2% 15.1%
MILW 3.9% 3.3% 3.9%
GN 3.1% 0.3% 2.9%
NP 2.8% 0.5% 2.6%
SOO 1.1% 0.1% 1.1%

Central West 20.5% 27.0% 20.8%
AT&SF 5.1% 8.1% 5.3%
SP - Pac. Lines 4.7% 8.5% 4.9%
UP 3.7% 5.6% 3.8%
CB&Q 3.3% 2.1% 3.2%
CRI&P 2.5% 2.1% 2.5%

Southwest 9.1% 6.8% 8.9%
MP (ex TP& IGN) 3.2% 2.9% 3.2%
SLSF 2.0% 1.3% 2.0%
T&NO 1.2% - 1.1%
MKT 0.8% 1.2% 0.8%

So which columns should be used to make the distribution of owners of US
Foreign Boxcars on a layout in the mid-to-late 1950's?

If the layout depicts a line that higher than average automobile and
auto parts loadings, then the General Service percentages should be used
separately from the Special Service percentages which cannot be used at
least on UP's Eastern Nebraska Main Line in 1956 as has been shown
above. (On 12/31/1956, only 7.4% of the total boxcars were Special
Service Boxcars of which only an unknown fraction of them were in
Assigned Service.) Assigned Service Boxcars are the culprit, and until
there is a better understanding of the utilization of those cars, any
allocation would be little more than a guess. Assigned Service Boxcars
seem to have been operated principally on Main Lines, and not Branch or
Secondary Lines except at the points of origin and termination of the
load.

If the layout depicts a line with lower than average Auto traffic,
either the General Service or Combined percentages can be used. The
rationalization for using the Combined percentages would be that there
was a certain amount of automobiles which were unloaded on those lines,
and the use of the Combined percentages would give effect to that
traffic.

Now to Garth Groff's problem on his SN/WP layout, the WP only owned 0.3%
of the National Boxcar fleet. My recommendation would be to use the
Combined percentages above, add a couple of WP and SN boxcars - more if
he models 1958 - and increase the boxcar population to 105-110 from 100.

The Western Pacific's 1956-1958 breakdown of the Daily Average Cars on
the WP between those WP-owned and Foreign was:

1956 1957 1958
Home 2,195 2,484 2,755
Foreign 4,690 3,320 3,088
Total 6,885 5,804 5,843
% Home 31.9% 42.8% 47.2%

WP Roster at Year End
1955 1956
Boxcars - Gen'l 2,398 2,278
Boxcars - Spec. 212 212
Total Boxcars 2,610 2,490

Gondolas 1,616 1,443
Hoppers 398 398
Covered Hoppers 2 12
Total Hoppers & Gons 2,016 1,853

Flat Cars 475 500
Stock Cars 410 285
Reefers 20 70
Total Roster 5,531 5,198

With the exception of Boxcars and Flat Cars, most of the Other Types, I
presume, did not stray far from the WP.

Hope this helps, Tim Gilbert

Flat Cars 475
Stock Cars 410


Re: Help - Looking for Sunshine kits

h81644 <H81644@...>
 

Rob,
Would be intreted in selling the Red Caboose Reefer?

George


--- In STMFC@..., Rob Adams <steamera@n...> wrote:
Fellow freight car collectors;

I model the CB&Q in the mid-1930's am looking for some
discontinued and
limited run Sunshine kits. I would like to locate one or more of
the
following:

22.7 CB&Q XA-11 10' IH SS auto box with steel Youngstown door and
a half
(original) configuration.

Minikit CB&Q FM-11/FM-11A flat car

of lesser priority:

17.16 CB&Q XM-30 Howe Truss SS box car


Potential incentives or trade fodder, depending upon the
circumstances:

Sunshine minikit for the Wabash double door conversion and an undec
Proto 2000 50' auto box.

Out of production Intermountain 10'6" modified AAR kits with
accurate
"as-built" paint schemes for CB&Q XM-32 (3 different numbers),
CRI&P,
C&NW and NYC cars. (These would all be early to mid-1940's
builds)

Meticulously built-up NYC 1937 AAR car - it has wire end and roof
grabs,
cut levers, Kadee #58's, etc.) Complete except for weathering.

Red Caboose Rath Mather reefer - Nice factory paint, underframe
modifed
with AB brakes, wire grabs.


Please contact me off list if you have any of these available or
might
know of a source. Thanks in advance.

Best regards, Rob Adams


Help - Looking for Sunshine kits

Rob Adams
 

Fellow freight car collectors;

I model the CB&Q in the mid-1930's am looking for some discontinued and
limited run Sunshine kits. I would like to locate one or more of the
following:

22.7 CB&Q XA-11 10' IH SS auto box with steel Youngstown door and a half
(original) configuration.

Minikit CB&Q FM-11/FM-11A flat car

of lesser priority:

17.16 CB&Q XM-30 Howe Truss SS box car


Potential incentives or trade fodder, depending upon the circumstances:

Sunshine minikit for the Wabash double door conversion and an undec
Proto 2000 50' auto box.

Out of production Intermountain 10'6" modified AAR kits with accurate
"as-built" paint schemes for CB&Q XM-32 (3 different numbers), CRI&P,
C&NW and NYC cars. (These would all be early to mid-1940's builds)

Meticulously built-up NYC 1937 AAR car - it has wire end and roof grabs,
cut levers, Kadee #58's, etc.) Complete except for weathering.

Red Caboose Rath Mather reefer - Nice factory paint, underframe modifed
with AB brakes, wire grabs.


Please contact me off list if you have any of these available or might
know of a source. Thanks in advance.

Best regards, Rob Adams


Fw: (erielack) train 20 1-24-58

Schuyler G Larrabee <SGL2@...>
 

With reference to the recent thread about piggyback and it's earliest common
use . . .

SGL

Incidentally, I will be off-line for a week.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Chapin" <rwc27q@...>
To: <Dlw1el2@...>
Cc: <erielack@...>; <anthraciterr@...>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: (erielack) train 20 1-24-58


Great stuff Bob!

So, do you think an Mty Piggy Back is an empty trailer on a flat car? or a
flat car without a trailer? I guess an empty trailer on a flat car. Any
clues from the sheets you've looked at?

An interesting note on June 16, 1954. The DL&W was one of six railroads
(including the Erie) that had filed tariffs with the ICC to start piggy
back
operations on the 16th. The ICC issued a six month hold on these on
June15th
in response to trucking industry objections. Completely blindsided the
railroads. But the DL&W went ahead anyway!! (The hold was removed on July
9th after the railroads appealed. The Erie got started 7/12/54.) I have a
NY
Times clipping with a 6/17 Buffalo dateline that states "The Delaware,
Lackawanna & Western Railroad opened a piggy back freight service here
today
despite an order by the Interstate Commerce Commission intended to deter
several railroads from similar actions."..." A Lackawanna spokesman said
the
first flat cars hauling truck trailers had left here for New York." A
most
appropriate action IMO. I wonder if they kept running the pigs between
then
and July 10th.

Many thanks for the info, would love to see more.
Rich Chapin

P.S. Did these sheets come from another attic raid? And do you think that
"Pop Corn Brooklyn" was a boxcar load? That's a lot of movies!




----- Original Message -----
From: <Dlw1el2@...>
To: <erielack@...>; <anthraciterr@...>
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2003 8:30 PM
Subject: (erielack) train 20 1-24-58



With the inception of Piggy Back service June 16 1954 the Lackawanna
introduced train 20. It was the only through freight to to be given a
two
digit
numeric number, and needless to say was a hot train. Virtually no photos
exist of
it, cause of its nocternal running time. I was always told it was not
solid
piggy back, but in addition carried other high priority freight. (
meat )
This
is the first consist I've ever seen of it. The non solid Piggy Back is
true. As
a mater of fact, the high priority freight seems to be a bit of an over
statement also.

This consist with a few others of the same week came off the hook at
Tobyhanna Tower. Why train sheets were also thrown off at Tobyhanna is a
mystery? How
I got these is a whole nother story.

____________________________________________________________________


Train 20 1-24-58
Cond: C.J. Powell
Eng: J. Rushworth
Engines: 658A, 651B, 651A

1 Mty Hoboken. Piggy Back
1 Steel Harrison " "
1 Soda Paterson " "
2 Compound Hoboken " "
1 Mty Hoboken " "
1 Mdse Hoboken " "
1 Flour Harlem Trans
1 Glassware Pier 13
1 Caboose Jersey City
1 Oil Brooklyn
1 Plastic Summit, RVRR
1 Wash Mach New York
1 Mdse NY Literage
1 Mty Hoboken
1 Grates Harlem Tran
1 Flour Pier 41
1 Mty Hoboken
1 Mty Hoboken Piggy Back
1 Grain Brooklyn
1 Flour Pier 41
1 Cathoders NY Literage
2 Auto Parts " "
1 Moly??nite Hobken
1 Auto Parts NY Literage
1 Mty Hoboken
1 Flour Brooklyn
1 Steel NY Literage
2 Mtys Hoboken
2 Flour NY Literage
1 Mdse Pier 26
1 Pop Corn Brooklyn
2 Flour "
1 Tin Plate NY Literage
4 Mty Hoboken Piggy Back
1 Mdse Hoboken Piggy Back
2 Mty Hoboken Piggy Back
1 Mdse Hoboken Piggy Back
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
----
46 cars 2438 Tons
There is an additional note talking about the Soda Piggy Back for
Paterson.
The moral of the story it went through to Hoboken, and became a Newark
car
or
in this case trailer.
By Stroudsburg 5:05 AM

16 Piggy Backs. Probable last min additions to the head end and hind
end.
Delayed 1Hr 35 Min Scranton for Train and Air.
==========================================================
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------
-----------------------------
The 1Hr 35 Min at Scranton is not to good.
Would have loved to know the origins of the cars in this consist.

Bob Bahrs


Sunshine Models Spring California tour

Walter M. Clark
 

List-

Has anyone heard what dates and places Martin Lofton has set for the March California tour? Specifically, for southern California?

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California


Re: 3-truck boxcar

Eric <newyorkcentralfan@...>
 

John F. Pautz wrote:

"The author was Whit Towers."

Thanks. My memory didn't fail me. It's been a tough month.

Eric


KCS 46' Hopper-Bottom Gondola

JGG KahnSr <jacekahn@...>
 

The one I obtained is painted black with KCS lettering (not exact for the car, per TSC #5, but the correct scheme probably was/is not available). Open cars are not necessarily painted the same as house cars; one really needs either color photos or observers who were on the spot and have reliable memories. And KCS could have changed their scheme at some point; the sneaky prototypes sometimes did that just to confuse modellers a generation or two later.
Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks

What the correct color for these cars in the early 1950s? A friend has one
of the Railcraft O scale models that he would like to paint and decal.

I didn't find any mention of the car color in either Marin Lofton's article
in January 1991 Mainline Modeler or in TSC #5. I did a search in the Model
Train Mag Index and found a Richard Hendrickson article on USRA composite
gondolas, Railmodel Journal, February 2000 that has a KCS USRA gon B&W photo
but no mention of the KCS color. I also found the Joe Pennington article on
the KCS rebuilt USRA DS boxcars in MM, April 1992. Joe's boxcar model is
painted a maroon-red color, at least thats the way it looks in the MM color
photos.

Is maroon-red also the correct color for KCS gons in the early 1950s?

Larry Kline
_________________________________________________________________
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