Date   

Re: Really Old ATSF "Wr H" Class Tank Car

Richard Hendrickson
 

List,

Can anyone guess the origin of this car?

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf189817dgs.jpg

The double-safeties-on-one-yoke setup tells me it's
fairly old, but that underframe looks home-built!
No need to guess, Shawn. The Santa Fe freight car fleet is well
documented. This is a former Tk-H class car of which 298 were built by
AC&F in 1910 and numbered 96603-96900. They were intended primarily for
steam locomotive fuel service until after WW II, when many were reassigned
to MW service (domestic water, lubricants, etc.) and renumbered. The
underframe is original, and was used on all cars of classes Tk-G through
Tk-J; a slightly shorter version was also retro-fitted by AC&F on the cars
of classes Tk-C through Tk-F, which originally had wood underframes. Aside
from AB brakes replacing the original KC equipment and a gray MW paint job,
ATSF 189817 was exactly as delivered except for those ASF A-3 roller
bearing trucks, the first example I've ever seen of roller bearing trucks
on an early 20th c. ATSF tank car. The original trucks were L-section
Andrews.

For more information, see the forthcoming book on ATSF tank cars which will
be published next year by the Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling
Society.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Tennessee Coal and Iron

Larry Smith
 

James

I worked at the Bessemer plant when it was Pullman. I found equipemnt
in the plant that dated back to before the turn of the century, 20th
that is. I remeber a Buffalo forge being used that had been eletrified
and the plate on it said 1890. Wonder where that came from?

Larry Smith

James D Thompson wrote:

It is my understanding that the Pullman facility in Bessemer was once a
TCI property but I will chack on this.

TCI's carbuilding effort started out with a plant in Fairfield that did
business as Chicasaw Shipbuilding beginning in 1921, assumed the TCI name
around 1924, and sold the plant to Pullman in 1929. Pullman ran it for a
few years before opening its new Bessemer plant in 1934.

David Thompson




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Re: Tennessee Coal and Iron

Larry Smith
 

Now my next project is to find out about the Fairfield Car Works.

Larry Smith

thompson@... wrote:

Larry Smith said:


The company was originally founded as the Sewanee Mining Company in 1852...
TCI was itself bought out
in 1907 by US Steel, but continued to operate as seperate company within
the US Steel family until 1954 when it became TCI Division of US Steel.

I looked back at the info I had on the SP purchase of GS gondolas from
TCI&RR in 1925. The SP clearly indicated US Steel as the parent of TCI&RR,
at that time building at the "Fairfield Car Works."
There were a number of wholly owned USS subsidiaries which continued
under their old names for years--what this meant in management terms I
don't know, but I'd guess it meant little. Whether that applies to TCI&RR
in particular, I don't know either.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history




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Re: Tennessee Coal and Iron

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

It is my understanding that the Pullman facility in Bessemer was once a
TCI property but I will chack on this.
TCI's carbuilding effort started out with a plant in Fairfield that did
business as Chicasaw Shipbuilding beginning in 1921, assumed the TCI name
around 1924, and sold the plant to Pullman in 1929. Pullman ran it for a
few years before opening its new Bessemer plant in 1934.

David Thompson


Re: Tennessee Coal and Iron

thompson@...
 

Larry Smith said:
The company was originally founded as the Sewanee Mining Company in 1852...
TCI was itself bought out
in 1907 by US Steel, but continued to operate as seperate company within
the US Steel family until 1954 when it became TCI Division of US Steel.
I looked back at the info I had on the SP purchase of GS gondolas from
TCI&RR in 1925. The SP clearly indicated US Steel as the parent of TCI&RR,
at that time building at the "Fairfield Car Works."
There were a number of wholly owned USS subsidiaries which continued
under their old names for years--what this meant in management terms I
don't know, but I'd guess it meant little. Whether that applies to TCI&RR
in particular, I don't know either.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Jerry Hamsmith Decals?

Robert Gross
 

In the Sept 2003 Railmodel Journal, there is an article that features
40 and 50-ft express box cars. The article indicates that many of
these cars will require decals from a Jerry Hamsmith. Does anyone
know howe I can get a hold of this person? Has anyone used his decals
before? Are they good quality? Please advise.

Rob Gross


ADMIN: Have you been missing messages?

jaley <jaley@...>
 

All,

Gene Green's recent message (on AAR boxcar underframes) included
text of a message that Richard Hendrickson sent -- a message that I had
never seen!

The reason I didn't see it is that my account had been "bouncing",
AND I DIDN'T KNOW IT. It turns out that I missed out on 31 messages (from
various lists) last week.

If you suspect you've been missing messages, here's how to find
out:

Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/myprefs

You'll probably be asked for your yahoogroups password. If you don't have
it, you probably won't be able to proceed.

Next to your email address(es) there will be a link labeled "Bounce
History". Click there and it will tell you how much you've been missing.

It will not, unfortunately, tell you which messages you've missed, so
you'll have to wade through the online archives to see if there's been
anything new.


I hope that this info is of help to others who have been wondering
about "mystery messages".

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Thanks! RE: Published PS-5 gondola plans

Garrett W. Rea <Garrett.Rea@...>
 

Jim and Richard

There was an article on the Pullman-Standard PS-5 gondolas by James
Kinkaid
that was published in RailModel Journal, September 1999. It does
not contain
any plans, but does contain over 20 prototype photos and a detailed
roster of
the roads that had these cars.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

Try Mainline Modeler, January, 1986 (welded) or October, 1993
(riveted).

Richard Dermody
Thanks, I knew of the first article (tied with the MicroTrains
release, a good article on the cars with tons of photos as pointed
out) but did not know of the plans.

Garrett Rea
Nashville, TN


Re: Train Shed Cyclopedia

Ron Boham <spnut@...>
 

benjaminfrank_hom wrote:

Mike Boone asked:
There are 70+ Train Shed Cyclopedia for sale on Ebay. Are these
useful references?

The answer is yes, provided that you know there are pitfalls to using
the Cycs.
[Snip}


Still, for schmoes like me who can't afford a library of original
cycs , they're not a bad bargain. One word of advice - avoid eBay
auction frenzy and don't pay more than cover price for them. The
Greggs seriously overestimated demand for these. As a result, the
print runs are huge, and these are readily available on the market.
I'm sure Ben means the _original_ cover price, usually $4.50-$5.50, _NOT_ the $15.75 or whatever it is Walthers is asking for them now! As reference material they will do, if the thing you wish to look up is part of one of the volumes; the index for Train Sheds only goes to issue #42. The sections Gregg chose to include vary widely in their usefulness for modelbuilding. If you have an old hobby shop (i. e., long-time shop, original owner) in your area, you may find these on the shelf at original prices.

I bought all 90 issues over twenty-five years ago, when I was low-bucking it and despaired of ever being able to afford original cyclopedias. For what I paid for 90 issues, I could have bought two original car builders cycs at the time, or one at today's prices and had some change left over.

Ron Boham
Ralston, NE


Re: Really Old ATSF "Wr H" Class Tank Car

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Shawn,
Not real good at spotting but it might be a Tk-J or Tk-H (page
181/182/183 of the work cars book). As the subject says Wr-H I'm guessing a
Tk-H. When they took it out of interchange (if it ever was) they just
changed the Tk to Wr.
When the tank car book gets done we will probably have much more
information about these tanks.


Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax DCC owner, Chief/Zephyr systems
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


PFE Diagram Books

Dick Harley <Dick.Harley@...>
 

I am considering printing some copies of the two PFE Diagram sets I have,
and taking them to Naperville for sale. The 1951 set has ice cars from the
rebuilt R-30-2-13 and new R-30-5 wood cars up to the R-40-25 steel cars.
The 1972 set has steel ice and mechanical reefers as well as some trailers
and flat cars.

Contents of the 1951 set has just been uploaded to the "Files" area. The
1972 set hasn't been created yet, according to this group.

If you are going to Naperville and want a set, please contact me off list so
I know how many to take. Pricing is $10.00 each or $15.00 for the pair.

This blatant ad brought to you by,
Dick Harley


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /PFE Freight Diagrams 1951.5.xls
Uploaded by : whyohyowhy <Dick.Harley@...>
Description : listing of PFE 1951 Refrigerator Car Diagram book

You can access this file at the URL

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/PFE%20Freight%20Diagrams%201951.5.xls

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit

http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

whyohyowhy <Dick.Harley@...>


Re: AC&F paint samples

Tim O'Connor
 

What a great idea Bruce! I wish you had printed extras. I would
happily pay $5 for a sheet of decal colors like that. Microscale
charges $2.50 and all you get is one color!

Another good choice would be a set of reefer color strips, from
pale yellow up thru "reefer" orange.

I pasted the scan into a WORD document, enlarged it to fit a page, ran
down to my local Speedy Print Shop and had them print it on their color
laser onto Micro Mark laser decal paper. They charged $2.15 and
required proof that the decal was for laser copiers (fortunately, I
kept the label). I now have an 8x10 sheet of reweigh paint swatches in
a variety of boxcar reds that I can "match" to a variety of different
body colors (match being a relative term, since a perfect match would
be kinda, well invisible...). BTW, the laser came out much lighter and
redder than my 4000 dpi photo ink jet...

Happy Rails
Bruce


Tennessee Coal and Iron

Larry Smith
 

Tony

We were both right as far as dates go, but there is more to this.

The company was originally founded as the Sewanee Mining Company in 1852 on the Cumberland Plateau in Tennessee. The name was changed to Tennessee Coal and Railroad in 1860. In 1874 Tennessee Coal and Railroad purchased the Sewanee Furnace Company and became TCI &RR.

In 1886, TCI purchased the Pratt City Coal and Iron Company and came to Birmingham. After as series of acquisitions TCI was itself bought out in 1907 by US Steel, but continued to operate as seperate company within the US Steel family until 1954 when it became TCI Division of US Steel.

For a more consise history of TCI go to www.bhamrails.info

Larry Smith .


Re: Detail website/book

Steve Sandifer <jssand@...>
 

Yes. Go for it.

If not a print publisher, why not a series of web pages for the STMFC website. That way as suppliers produce new equipment, it can be kept up-to-date. And when someone comes up with an exception to the rule, it is easy to make an emendation without having incomplete information in unchangeable print for ever and ever. Once something is in print, it becomes law.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Dr., Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX
77025, 713-667-9417
Personal: http://users2.ev1.net/~jssand/index.htm
Church: http://www.swcentral.org
Railway: http://www.trainweb.org/jssand
Webmaster: http://www.ATSFRR.net

----- Original Message -----
From: benjaminfrank_hom
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 2:31 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Detail website/book


Jeff Aley asked:
"Hasn't this been done by John Nehrich? I believe his "NEB&W
Guide..." includes several (crude) sketches and photos that adequately
illustrate the differences in ends. I think he also included some of
this info (and info on doors, etc.) in one of his MR articles."

Yes, in "The Boxcar Fleet of the Fifties," Model Railroader, June
1986, but not to the extent of what the original poster was looking
for. Besides, we've learned a lot more since 1986.

One of the project I've been working on in fits and starts is a time
chart (a la Gantt Chart) showing exactly this type of information. I
we can convince a publisher to print it as a fold out, we can put on
one side when the various boxcar designs were built and their service
lives, and on the other we can put the chart showing when the various
appliances were introduced and produced. Along the bottom axis we
could put the various milestones from the English/Groff timeline.
This is something I really need to redouble my efforts on after
Naperville, becuase I think everyone can use something like this.


Ben Hom


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Re: Detail website/book

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jeff Aley asked:
"Hasn't this been done by John Nehrich? I believe his "NEB&W
Guide..." includes several (crude) sketches and photos that adequately
illustrate the differences in ends. I think he also included some of
this info (and info on doors, etc.) in one of his MR articles."

Yes, in "The Boxcar Fleet of the Fifties," Model Railroader, June
1986, but not to the extent of what the original poster was looking
for. Besides, we've learned a lot more since 1986.

One of the project I've been working on in fits and starts is a time
chart (a la Gantt Chart) showing exactly this type of information. I
we can convince a publisher to print it as a fold out, we can put on
one side when the various boxcar designs were built and their service
lives, and on the other we can put the chart showing when the various
appliances were introduced and produced. Along the bottom axis we
could put the various milestones from the English/Groff timeline.
This is something I really need to redouble my efforts on after
Naperville, becuase I think everyone can use something like this.


Ben Hom


Re: diagonal panel roofs

thompson@...
 

Guy Wilber wrote:
I have yet to find and evidence of cars built any earlier than the GN cars.
This has always been interesting as the diagonal panel roof was advertised as
early as July of 1947 and was approved by the AAR in October of 1947.
Guy, wasn't this during the time of considerable backlogs at the
builders? If so, maybe the orders being completed up until March of 1948
had been specced and placed before the introduction of the DP roof.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: Detail website/book

jaley <jaley@...>
 

On Oct 13, 10:41am, Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Detail website/book
RPC in #4 did a nice piece on trucks for freight cars.
I would like to see a website or RPC that shows the various roofs,
ends,
roof walks, and doors with name, the time period when they were used,
and
what manufacturer (in HO for me) has gotten that part right. I often
get
the various names confused, and this would be a great reference for
kitbashing. Of course some of you will now reply, "it's been done." So,
where do I find this concise reference?
No, Steve, it hasn't been done, and it should be. (But I'm not
volunteering to do it - I'm over-commited with projects already.)

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Richard, et. al,

Hasn't this been done by John Nehrich? I believe his "NEB&W
Guide..." includes several (crude) sketches and photos that adequately
illustrate the differences in ends.

I think he also included some of this info (and info on doors,
etc.) in one of his MR articles.

The only piece that's really missing is a current listing of HO
examples of same (though we're all bound to argue about whether or not a
given end or door is "correct").

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Need Champ Decals

jaley <jaley@...>
 

On Oct 13, 11:52am, Larry Smith wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Need Champ Decals
Yes they are. Just purchased six sets from them last week

Larry Smith
On Oct 13, 4:40pm, benjaminfrank_hom wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Need Champ Decals
The answer is yes, though they will no longer take print requests.
Here's a link to their announcement on their website:

http://www.minot.com/~champ/latest.htm

Ben Hom

Larry & Ben,

Thanks for setting me straight on Champ. It's good to know that
the business will go on as Mr. Meyer had intended.

Regards,

-Jeff



--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Really Old ATSF "Wr H" Class Tank Car

Shawn Beckert
 

List,

Can anyone guess the origin of this car?

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/atsf/atsf189817dgs.jpg

The double-safeties-on-one-yoke setup tells me it's
fairly old, but that underframe looks home-built!

Shawn Beckert

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