Date   

Re: Reloading Covered Hoppers

cripete <pjboylanboylan@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Kert Peterson <kertp@c...> wrote:

That would have been a lot of soda ash, since soda ash is such a
small part of glass. Interesting that they would get materials from
so far
away when > West Virginia was (is?) one of the largest producers of
glass because of > their silica mines. In the early 1950's my father
was the president of the > Silicosis Board in WVa.
Cheers,> Kert Peterson
Fircrest, WA

Kert:
Blenko, the art glass company at Milton , W.Va , regularly gets
hoppers of "No. 1 Glass Sand", from outside of Detroit. I enjoy
seeing them, because many are still flying the faded banners of the
Detroit and Toledo Shore Line, that has been merged into GT, and then
CanPac, since they took to the rails.

This sand's main claim to fame is its virtual absence of iron. The
shipper is U.S. SILICA , based in West Virginia, but operating pits
and mines all over the eastern portion of the country. Their WWWs at:
< http://www.u-s-silica.com >
have a product listing, that gives the pit sites and what is at each
productwise. This is handy not only for those wanting to know the
specifics of each type of sand , but also to incorporate it into
traffic patterns on their model empires.
The only constraint on the latter, in the real world , is the
marine carriage option. Toledo,that produced enormous tonnages of
glass used for: windows; containers; and automotive purposes - also
had those huge piles of waterborne sand along the Maumee.

So , as with coal, stone, ore, structural iron/steel,and lumber; the
availability of a lower cost water route impacts on whether a
railroad figured in the traffic , and if it did , how did a waterleg
modify the rail routing(s). Certainly, as you and others have pointed
out , while plenty of glass sand was quarried in West Virginia (by
U,S.Silica among others), and used there as well, all glass sands are
not the same, much less all sands being equal.
Good-Luck, Peter Boylan


Meat reefers in Sioux Falls

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

The following post from the Milwaukee List on the handling of meat reefers in Sioux Falls, SD is of considerable interest. Sioux Falls was the home of a giant Morrell packing plant, the very largest covering a very large geographic area, and like Mason City (well known on this list), also hosted a plethora of railroads (GN, IC, Milwaukee, RI, CNW). The principal shipping destination was Chicago, although from my own experience with Morrell, there might well have been "floating" shipments which although generally heading toward Chicago (and beyond), were not finally directed

One of the things related in this post is the fact that PFE carmen were stationed in Sioux Falls, far from the nearest "PFE railroad". I would guess that PFE reefers might have been used for meat shipments to the west and southwest in preference to the private Morrell cars.

Does anyone have other reasons for such a relatively large PFE presence?

R.C. Lathrop is a long time retired Milwaukee employee who routinely provides terrific information, observations and comments on the Milwaukee Road in Northern Iowa, and adjacent South Dakota and Minnesota.

From: "R.C. Lathrop" <mrclathrop@...>
Subject: Re: Sioux Falls Ice House
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 05:20:38 +0000

Mike, Friends & Fans:

When I worked downthere in 1962 and '63, the Ice House must hae been at or
near the Morrell Packing Plant. There was an elevated
platform at the plant, inside, so one could work all year around. The
plant ran 24 hours a day, then. I remember meat cars going both >inside
and out along the south side. I do not know just how it was owned. Cars
were iced there by Morrell.

All the refers arrived dirty, and had to be cleaned, befoe they could be
loaded. On arrival, the Milwukee Switch Engine took them to a yard near
the Packing Plant where the reifers were cleaned, serviced, and then
switched into the plant for loading. There carmen from the Milwawukee,
and PFE (Pacific Fruit Express) inspected, worked on, and prepared
them for service or loading.
I don't know if any other railroad's Carmen worked on there cars.

I know all the railroads there had a switch engine working , but I never
saw them go down to the plant. This was a very competive high revenue,
time sensitive business. Speed, or getting the train over the road was a
very important factor. Thus, the Great Northeren which didn't go into
Chicago was out, on this move. The Omaha's route was longer and not
upgraded. They did serve a Packing Plant at >LeVurne, MN. The Rock
Island may have got some of it, but their track was not fast enough. The
IC did make a bid and competed. >They upgrade their line from Cherokee
to Sioux Falls, for high speed, but had time troubles. They were just
not as fast. I do remember >them handling Morrell Reifers and storing
them at BenClair, SD. The Milwaukee just had the shortest delivery time.

Your right about going over IC tracks on the trip from the Milw. Yard to
the Morrell Plant. I think the Rock Island used that route as
well, because they came across the Milwaukee Main through a gate, and
connected with the same track in front of the IC Pass. Depot. 8th
street was crossed by this track.

The yard engines would take the mtys down to the yard at the plant, and
most all the inspecting work went on there. The reifers were >private
cars, leased or owned by Morrell. Mtys that were cleaned and ready were
then shoved into the plant and loades removed and switched up as per
instructions. They then would take them back to the Milwaukee Yard,
shove them to the track against the caboose >from 163, and go to other
duties. The locomotives for the train were serviced at the roundhouse,
and went on duty there.

This train was No 162, Sioux Falls to Canton, and 62 Canton to Mason
City. No 63 Mason City to Canton, and 163 CAnton to Sioux Falls, in
1962.

R. C. Lathrop, Aberdeen, SD
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: Barrett Tarvia

Michael Aufderheide <maufderheide@...>
 

It's not asphaltum, AFAIK. The are referred to as "Modified Bitumen"
roofs.
In some spec writer's minds they are the Cadillac of roofs. These roofs
(which I agree, do stink, olfactorily speaking) are still in use, but
they
are now a very minor part of the roofing business, having been
superceded by
"membrane roofing." "Membranes" are rubber, vinyl, and some other
versions
of "plastic" substances. The modified bit roofs are comparatively quite
expensive. I see little reason to use them.





SGL



Schuyler and all:



I wonder if there is confusion between modified bitumen and hot-mopped
roofs. From my experience as an architect in the Chicago area I can
tell you that modified bitumen roofs are very common. From a cost
standpoint they are less expensive upfront than membrane roofs like EPDM
or PVC; and from the owners standpoint are more durable and easier to
maintain (just a guy with a patch of the stuff and a plumbers' torch).
While it's true that these systems are older technology, they still make
sense for the vast majority of commercial roofs. These are made of one,
sometimes more sheets of reinforced asphaltic sheets with a granular top
surface. Systems vary, but they are usually adhered to the substrate
with a hot asphaltic adhesive, then, welded together with heat from a
small torch being worked along the sheets' edge. There are many roofs in
Chicago that are still the "hot-mopped" roofs from the steam era, but
these should not be confused with the torch-down rolls used in modified
bitumen systems. Hot-mopped roofs are literally just that. Asphalt
impregnated felts which are laid down in hot asphalt mopped in place.



Now that I've bored you with this tome, I'll make one last desperate
attempt to be on-topic. For a local roofing contractor in our era, how
would they have received a shipment of this stuff? I've often wondered
what the accident site of one of those hot asphalt trailers looks and
smells like. "Good old days" indeed!



Regards,



Mike


Re: Naperville

charles slater
 

Al, I have your vidio catalog version 1.5, and would like to trade it for the latest version could you please bring one with you.
Thanks very much, see you in Naperville
Charlie Slater


From: "Al & Patricia Westerfield" <westerfield@...>
Reply-To: STMFC@...
To: <STMFC@...>,"The Freightcars List" <freightcars@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Naperville
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 07:53:16 -0500

We will be at the Sunshine RPM. As usual, if you wish us to bring any
specific older kits to purchase, let us know before next Thursday. - Al
Westerfield




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Re: sand and glass making

ELDEN GATWOOD <ELDEN.GATWOOD@...>
 

Eric;
Did the Morgantown glass industry get served by other roads? Did the
Monongahela Railroad get up there? Where would one find a list of those
industries in that area? Great post!
Thanks,

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Hansmann [mailto:ehansmann@...]
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 6:23 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] sand and glass making

A busy week has kept me from responding on the sand delivery topic.

Sand used in the manufacture of glass products needed to be delivered
dry and uncontaminated. Open gondolas were not recommended. Since the
glass industry pre-dates covered hopper use, be aware that a large
amount of sand was transported loose in boxcars. This was common into
the 1960's, as one of our model rr club members here has related several
stories of his employment at a glass factory in Weston, W. Va. He spent
many days unloading boxcars of sand with a shovel and a wheelbarrow in
the period just beyond the focus of this list. In researching the West
Virginia glass industry, I have seen many images of glass factories with
boxcars spotted at the stock room doors (also known as stock house,
materials house, sand house, etc).

As for production leaders, it seems that Ohio, Pennsylvania and West
Virginia were the top states in glass production from the early teens
through the mid-1950's. After this point, the plastics revolution and
outmoded plants forced many glass factories to close. Here in
Morgantown, W. Va., we once had ten plants operating. Two large window
glass plants (not the same manufacturing process as plate glass) closed
just before WW2, while three table and stemware plants lasted into the
1960's. The last tableware plant closed in 1995. All that is left is a
small operation that produces lampshades. It outlasted the B&O that ran
beside it for nearly a century.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.






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Fw: NEW THREAD--FOUNDRY

Joel Norman <mec-bml@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Joel Norman
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 10:53 AM
Subject: NEW THREAD--FOUNDRY


STEAM GUYS: I've reading with great interest the thread on glass and sand but would like to ask a question about different sand...sand used for a foundry..model a Maine short line(B&ML)1948-1950 within our reach and NewEngland had a few places making Franklin Stoves and would guess they used sand to mold the stoves(???)was wondering if anyone in the group had plans(or know were they are???)of a middle sized foundry....AC&F(Bowser??)covered hoppers and since sand Im thinking of comes off the DH guess DH-NH-DLW covered hoppers??but the plant data is most needed....
Hope you can help
Joel Norman--Eastern Maine Rly ''Route of the Yella Moose''


Re: Barrett Tarvia

Joel Norman <mec-bml@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Aufderheide" <maufderheide@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:08 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Barrett Tarvia


It's not asphaltum, AFAIK. The are referred to as "Modified Bitumen"
roofs.
In some spec writer's minds they are the Cadillac of roofs. These roofs
(which I agree, do stink, olfactorily speaking) are still in use, but
they
are now a very minor part of the roofing business, having been
superceded by
"membrane roofing." "Membranes" are rubber, vinyl, and some other
versions
of "plastic" substances. The modified bit roofs are comparatively quite
expensive. I see little reason to use them.





SGL



Schuyler and all:



I wonder if there is confusion between modified bitumen and hot-mopped
roofs. From my experience as an architect in the Chicago area I can
tell you that modified bitumen roofs are very common. From a cost
standpoint they are less expensive upfront than membrane roofs like EPDM
or PVC; and from the owners standpoint are more durable and easier to
maintain (just a guy with a patch of the stuff and a plumbers' torch).
While it's true that these systems are older technology, they still make
sense for the vast majority of commercial roofs. These are made of one,
sometimes more sheets of reinforced asphaltic sheets with a granular top
surface. Systems vary, but they are usually adhered to the substrate
with a hot asphaltic adhesive, then, welded together with heat from a
small torch being worked along the sheets' edge. There are many roofs in
Chicago that are still the "hot-mopped" roofs from the steam era, but
these should not be confused with the torch-down rolls used in modified
bitumen systems. Hot-mopped roofs are literally just that. Asphalt
impregnated felts which are laid down in hot asphalt mopped in place.



Now that I've bored you with this tome, I'll make one last desperate
attempt to be on-topic. For a local roofing contractor in our era, how
would they have received a shipment of this stuff? I've often wondered
what the accident site of one of those hot asphalt trailers looks and
smells like. "Good old days" indeed!



Regards,



Mike







To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@...



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



Re: TANGENT: Bill Welsh

Tim O'Connor
 

Try spelling his name W-E-L-C-H and you may have better luck.


Thanks! Re: TANGENT: Bill Welsh

Jerry Britton
 

Contact has been made. Thanks all!!!

--- In STMFC@..., Jerry Britton <jerry@p...> wrote:
Sorry for the tangent post, but search of the archives and member
directory came up empty.

Looking for Bill Welsh as a source of FGE information. I'm told he is
on this list.

Bill, if you are on this list, please contact me. Thank you!


TANGENT: Bill Welsh

Jerry Britton
 

Sorry for the tangent post, but search of the archives and member directory came up empty.

Looking for Bill Welsh as a source of FGE information. I'm told he is on this list.

Bill, if you are on this list, please contact me. Thank you!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@...
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale.
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
http://kc.pennsyrr.com
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products...
http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com


Fruit Growers Express Paint Scheme

Jerry Britton
 

Hello, folks!

This is my first post to this list. Over the past week I have been developing a web page about modeling reefer operations on the PRR. This has been incited by the pending release of 40' wood reefers in N scale from InterMountain. Here's my question...

For many years the sides of FGE reefers carried the words "REFRIGERATOR" and "VENTILATOR". Later it was just "REFRIGERATOR".

When developing the Reefer page, we originally thought the changeover was around 1959. Our current thinking is 1950-52ish.

We have citations of photos of the earlier scheme in later years, which is to be expected.

Can anyone cite photos of the later scheme -- just REFRIGERATOR --
circa the early 1950's.

In my case, I just want to be sure it was pre-1954 before I order a dozen ready-to-run cars in the later scheme!!!

If interested, the PRR reefer page is at

http://kc.pennsyrr.com/model/reefer.ws4d

Thanks!
-----------------------------------------------------------
Jerry Britton, SPF Member, PRRT&HS jerry@...
Pennsylvania Railroad, Eastern Region, 1954 in N Scale.
"Keystone Crossings" - Home of the "PRR-Talk" mailing list!
http://kc.pennsyrr.com
"Merchandise Service" - Model railroad products...
http://merchandise.pennsyrr.com


Re: log cars

Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Now wait a minute. Someone else said the Rivarossi cars are
based on Cass prototypes. The Bachmann and Rivarossi models
are -totally- different designs. So which is it? Both?
=================================================


No Tim, the Rivarossi cars are not based on those at Cass. Ned was correct with his earlier statement about the Bachmann offering:

Yes, these are models of the log cars that ran at Cass, WV. A
variety of entities ran operations there, Greenbrier Cheat and
Elk, West Va Pulp & Paper, Mower Lumber, Etc.
Sadly, only one original remains (that I know of), and it is in poor condition at Cass.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


sand and glass making

Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

A busy week has kept me from responding on the sand delivery topic.

Sand used in the manufacture of glass products needed to be delivered dry and uncontaminated. Open gondolas were not recommended. Since the glass industry pre-dates covered hopper use, be aware that a large amount of sand was transported loose in boxcars. This was common into the 1960's, as one of our model rr club members here has related several stories of his employment at a glass factory in Weston, W. Va. He spent many days unloading boxcars of sand with a shovel and a wheelbarrow in the period just beyond the focus of this list. In researching the West Virginia glass industry, I have seen many images of glass factories with boxcars spotted at the stock room doors (also known as stock house, materials house, sand house, etc).

As for production leaders, it seems that Ohio, Pennsylvania and West Virginia were the top states in glass production from the early teens through the mid-1950's. After this point, the plastics revolution and outmoded plants forced many glass factories to close. Here in Morgantown, W. Va., we once had ten plants operating. Two large window glass plants (not the same manufacturing process as plate glass) closed just before WW2, while three table and stemware plants lasted into the 1960's. The last tableware plant closed in 1995. All that is left is a small operation that produces lampshades. It outlasted the B&O that ran beside it for nearly a century.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Re: SP A-50-12 modeling

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony Thompson wrote

Tim, have you counted side and roof panels to compare the Athearn 50' DD
car with the SP prototype? (in addition to the other Athearn shortcomings)
That SP car had a 4-6 side panel arrangement--which the P2K car does have.
The SP cars did have a blank space atop the end, though I don't know if
it matches the DA end. It also, of course, had sharp corners.

Tony I know the Athearn car is not a perfect match. But there are
no S-corner 4/5 ends that exactly fit the P2K car body. Garth asked
if the DA ends could be used on an Athearn body to model something,
and I think the A-50-12 is a reasonable choice. YMMV.


Re: log cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Ned Carey wrote

Silver Series line are a pair of "ACF Log Cars" Any of
our early STMFC guys know what the prototypes are? Ben Hom
Yes, these are models of the log cars that ran at Cass, WV. A
variety of entities ran operations there, Greenbrier Cheat and
Elk, West Va Pulp & Paper, Mower Lumber, Etc.
Now wait a minute. Someone else said the Rivarossi cars are
based on Cass prototypes. The Bachmann and Rivarossi models
are -totally- different designs. So which is it? Both?


Re: 50' ATHEARN box car (was ATHEARN LIST)

thompson@...
 

Garth, the end is a perfect match for the 50 foot SP A-50-12. The
Proto2000 is a better model but the DA ends are not made to fit it.
With new ladders and doors and door tracks I think a decent model
can be made until Sunshine decides to do some 50 foot steel cars.
Tim, have you counted side and roof panels to compare the Athearn 50' DD
car with the SP prototype? (in addition to the other Athearn shortcomings)
That SP car had a 4-6 side panel arrangement--which the P2K car does have.
The SP cars did have a blank space atop the end, though I don't know if
it matches the DA end. It also, of course, had sharp corners.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: A new use for Bowser

Eric
 

Gene wrote:

"Might I suggest using the plans published in the July 1993 Mainline
Modeler rather than trying to scale off of a HO model. Small errors
in HO will be 50% larger in your scale."


This is certainly true.

A Bowser kit might be a good starting place for coming up with ideas
for constructing a sturdy core to hang details off of however.

Eric


Re: 50' ATHEARN box car (was ATHEARN LIST)

Tim O'Connor
 

Garth Groff wrote

Detail associates also offers a 4/5 end with a large blank panel at the
top to fit the same Athearn boxcar. Any ideas on possible prototypes for
the Athearn-based conversion? I think they might work for some early UP
10' 6" cars, though of course they wouldn't have alternate center
rivets. The ends might also be useful for D&RGW 10' 4" 12-panel cars
using C&BT Shops sides. I'm also looking at N&W B1a (IIRC) rebuilds of
the 1950s, which had 4/5 ends on a modern 10' 6" body, and 8' doors plus
a diagonal panel roof.
Garth, the end is a perfect match for the 50 foot SP A-50-12. The
Proto2000 is a better model but the DA ends are not made to fit it.
With new ladders and doors and door tracks I think a decent model
can be made until Sunshine decides to do some 50 foot steel cars.


Re: Barrett Tarvia

thompson@...
 

Clark Propst said:
Sorry, the "Hook and Eye" was the Iowa Central. Had to do with their emblem.
Clark, Jerry didn't say the Illinois Northern was THE "Hook and Eye,"
only that Chicago railroaders CALLED the IN the "Hook and Eye." It's one of
those names that could get attached many places.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Naperville weathering clinic

Ned Carey <nedcarey@...>
 

Mike Rose and I will be doing a hands on weathering clinic at Sunshine
Models Naperville, IL modelers seminar this coming weekend.

If your interested please see the bottom for stuff to bring.

Ned

Weathering Freight Cars - By Mike Rose and Ned Carey



This will be a 3 part clinic

It is designed to take you from novice to expert in weathering. You will
learn what the prototype looks like, techniques for weathering and actual
practice on your own models. You are welcome to come to all three parts or
any part individually.



Part 1 - Thursday evening

This will be a slide presentation of typical prototype weathering patterns
and a discussion of how to model them.



Part 2 & 3 - Friday morning workshop

The first hour will be a hands on demonstration of techniques.

The remaining time will be spent weathering your own model to match a
prototype photo. Mike and Ned will be available for tips and advice.



For the workshop you should bring the following:

An assembled painted model to work on and a prototype photo to work from

(The Handout will have some photos if you bring some type of box car.)

Paints in weathering colors, to keep the fumes down please bring acrylics
and/or oils

(Color suggestions: white, black, grimy black, a light gray, tan, a darker
brown like roof brown, a rust color or two. For oils Mike recommends; burnt
and raw umber, burnt and raw sienna, black & white)

Paint brushes, chalks, small wire brush, dullcoat spray can, mixing trays

70% isopropyl alcohol

Odorless mineral spirits if you bring oils

A willingness to learn

An attitude of sharing



I would appreciate an approximate count of attendees to the hands on
workshop. Please contact Ned Carey if you intend on coming at
nedcarey@...

171881 - 171900 of 196975