Date   

Re: Despatch roofs and ends

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

There was no author; these prints were put in the middle of magazine for modeler's use.

Roger H.

On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 12:04 PM, ed_mines wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Roger Hinman <rhinman@r...> wrote:
Just received the latest copy of the NYCHS Central Headlight today
and it includes reproductions of the roof and end drawings for the
Despatch style roof. Nice addition to the published record

Roger, do you think the author could be persuaded to repeat the
article in another magazine so we freight car enthusiasts can see it?

Ed Mines



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Re: Z-bar in ORER

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Chris Barkan wrote:
The Z-bar refers to a patented 1917 design for the connection between the
roof and sides of the car. It is briefly described along with a diagram in the
back pages of the ORER (ARA Circular 2569) in the section entitled "KEY PAGES
for STANDARD HEADINGS IN REGISTRATION PAGES" (pg. 788 in the Jan. 1954 ORER).
I think Chris is right. Some of the SP box cars which had hat-section posts and braces are listed in the ORER as "Z-bar" cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PRR X30 boxcar

smithbf@...
 

Gents;
Some time ago there was a firm that was to make a limited run of the X30
boxcar (X30?)....the one singular car used to transport American LaFrance
Firetrucks..........anybody know the progress of that boxcar???
Earl Myers
Earl.

Off list. As noted, it is Rail Classics. Eddy is notoriously slow, and
he also will sit on a project that he feels does not have enough
reservations, rather than flat out canceling. I have a reservation in for
the X30, and its been in a while ;^) About 6 months ago I heard that Eddy
was planning on doing an American Lafarance fire engine for the car, since
it was in service to the American Lafrance plant in Elmira...It will be
stunning when (and if) it is done.

Regards,
Bruce


Re: ORERs

Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Chuck Yungkurth wrote:
Interesting fact is that until about 30 years ago modelers never seemed to
have had any interest in them. I went to an a railroadiana / model RR auction
and picked up about 30 of them dating back to the 20s for $10!

...which coincides with the start-up of Prototype Modeler, the earliest "Protofile" articles in RMC, and the dawn of Prototype Modeling.


Ben Hom


Re: MoPac covered hoppers for limestone

asychis@...
 

Thanks Jerry. My main concern is the ends. The instructions are much too
vauge. I've already ruined one hopper, sanding off the top flange. Martin says
to remove the brake housing, but how much? How far down and do I need to
remove the side supports for the brake wheel housing. Maybe the article wil help.

Jerry


glass research link

Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

I keep forgetting to add this to the posts o the glass industry.

There is a new organization dedicated to preserving information on the
glass industry. Their website is:

http://members.aol.com/wvmuseumofglass/

I have not visited yet, but hope to soon. The curator is an old friend
of mine with a rail history background. I'm sure most of their
historical requests deal with the end products, so he may welcome
requests for details on the rail interface with the glass industry. Here
is some text from their site concening the mission of the museum:

Our Museum examines the rich history of some of America's most famous
glass factories, while at the same time carefully understanding the
impact that the hundreds of smaller and often time forgotten glass
houses made on the history of the glass industry.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Re: SFRD hatch platforms

Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
 

John Campbell wrote:
Apology, but am not familiar with the terminology "Rr-19 through Rr-27"...

John, "Rr-19 through Rr-27" refers to the Santa Fe classes of these cars. The definitive sourcebook on Santa Fe ice reefers is Refrigerator Cars: Ice Bunker Cars 1884-1979 by Keith Jordan, Richard H. Hendrickson, John B. Moore and A. Dean Hale, available from SFRHMS at:
http://www.atsfrr.org/store/book2.htm


Ben Hom


Re: SFRD hatch platforms

John F. Campbell <jcampbel@...>
 

At 2:40 PM -0800 2/6/04, Richard Hendrickson wrote:

List,

Was it common for the Rr-19 through Rr-27 cars to have their original
hatch platforms replaced by the abbreviated wood platforms that began
being used with the Rr-28 class, or did they keep the original
platforms until they received steel platforms and running boards?

Was it common for the earlier USRA rebuilts to keep wood running
boards their entire lives.
These cars kept their original wood hatch platforms and running boards
until many of them had their hatch covers turned around in the 1950s, at
which time the platforms were eliminated entirely and steel grid running
boards were fitted.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
============================

Apology, but am not familiar with the terminology "Rr-19 through Rr-27"...
If speaking about reefers there were many NWX wood sheathed and MILW ice
cars (blue sides, black ends)... as just two examples which retained their
wooden hatch platforms & running boards until end of useful service (circa
1970)... But I suspect the terminology might apply to a specific railroad's
cars...

Cordially... John


Monongahela RR

Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

Elden wrote:

One thing I am lacking is a good understanding of what came off the
Monongahela Railway and its connections, and where all the raw materials
were coming from and finished products routed.
================================================


Umm, ahh....coal, coal and um...coal! This product predominently went to steel mills in Pittsburgh, Youngstown, and possibly Cleveland.

My understanding is that the Monongahela RR was built because of the coal fields. There were plans to build south of Fairmont to Belington, and much was apparently graded. This portion was known as the Belington & Northern. In the Coal & Coke Railway book by Alan Clarke, it is stated that P&LE officials met around 1910 with the C&C owners concerning a merger or buyout. The C&C stretched from Elkins to Charleston, W. Va., and served coal fields south of Buckhannon and along the Elk River. Nothing happened with the P&LE, but the B&O purchased the line just after WWI.

I hope you know of the pending Monongahela RR history. it's coming from M2FQ Publishing. Here's a blurb from their website:

The Monongahela Railroad by David Gratz, will be released late 2003. You
can preorder now at $39.95 ppd in the US. Hardback only.

I don't think it is out yet. The site address is:

http://www.maine2footquarterly.com/

I note that it does need an update. The Monongahela RR details are not easy to find. I've seen many of the B&W images from the railroad archives. WOW! Terry Arbogast is assisting with the production of this book.

===================================================================



My portion of the Mon Branch also did have a Mississippi Glass plant, that
was there at least through the 60's, and I have also been unable to find out
much about it. If you have any suggestions, I would be thrilled to hear
them.
========================================================


Here in Morgantown, Mississippi Glass operated a large safety window glass plant along the B&O about a mile south of the station. Nothing remains, but is was a pretty busy spot for a few decades. I believe this closed in the late 1930's or mid-1940's. This was one of many plants that made window glass using the old cylinder process. A long cylinder of glass was drawn, then laid onto a hot steel bed. The cylinder was scored, cracked, and carefully flattened on the bed. It then was anealled and cut to size. Sounds archaic, doesn't it? These plants could not compete with flat drawn plants after WWII. The process was too labor intensive and the product was not up to the standards of the drawn sheets. Possibly, their plant further up-river was a more modern operation.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


More glass details

Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

Elden wrote:
And how was the finished product, which I think you said included PYREX,
shipped out? Given the fragile nature of the commodity, how do you think
they ensured its safe transport? Could they have used special boxcars, or
do you think they just turned around the inbound boxes?
========================================================

Elden,

Much of the finished glass was crated and loaded into boxcars. The crates would be packed with straw or excelsior to cushion the product. I have seen some images of larger plate glass that is crated and loaded into gondolas.

From information on the Sanborn Fire Insurance maps, it seems that many older glass plants had a woodshop area to fabricate shipping containers. Cardboard boxes for shipping came into use after WWII, but did not become wisely used until the mid-to-late 1950's. That information comes from a former Fostoria employee, and may only be pertinent to his plant or a tableware manufacturing plant.

In Moundsville, W. Va., the B&O had a short branch to serve the Fostoria Glass plant. It's fascinating to see what other industries were along this short branch. From the B&O's 1922 Form 6 book:

Mound Mine
Moundsville Electrical Co
Fostoria Glass Co
Greif Bros Co - a box manufacturer on the same spur as the glass plant! US Stamping Co
Anti-Rattle Sash Co
Crystal Ice Co
Suburban Brick Co
Parr's Run Mine

This branch is 0.7 miles in length and has a capacity of 89 42 foot cars. The Sanborn Map of this area is great and offers a wonderful perspective.

========================================================

Other than the glass sands, what other raw materials might have been shipped
in? Were there any special additives that came in by rail? Where might
this stuff have come from?

========================================================


The recipe for glass is fairly common. From "Magic with Sand" published by AFG Industries (owners of Fourco Glass):

Fomers Fluxers and Stabilizers are needed to produce glass.

Former - silica sand
Flux - soda ash, or potash, or lime. Usually an alkali.
Stabilizer - calcium oxide, arsenic, borax, or chalk

Cullet (broken glass) was usually added to ease the melting process.

The Flux and Stabilizers probably came in as sacked or barrelled items in boxcars. The quantities needed were not the same as the sand. Positioning your glass plant close to a clean sand producing area with abundant clean fuel are a couple of reasons why the industry took off in this area. The cullet usually came from within the plant from previous jobs. I do not know of much glass recycling done in the steam era.

I hope this helps.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Re: Atlas Hart Ballast car trucks

prr6380
 

Sorry Tim, there is nothing new under the sun. This idea has been
used for several years under a variety of equipment, the first one I
can think of is the AHM 12-1 Pullman. Of course that's a passenger
car, but it's the first thing I thought of.

Walt Stafa


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:

the "stupid pins" are for what I would call a three-point support:
on
this end, the truck can only swivel, while on the other end
(without
the pins), the truck can rock AND swivel.
Hope it's clear :-)

Michel Guilloux

I see! Gosh, how could we get along all these years with our other
thousands of freight car models not having those pins! This is a
revolutionary freight car innovation!


Re: Atlas Hart Ballast car trucks

prr6380
 

Sorry Tim, there is nothing new under the sun. This idea has been
used for several years under a variety of equipment, the first one I
can think of is the AHM 12-1 Pullman. Of course that's a passenger
car, but it's the first thing I thought of.

Walt Stafa


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:

the "stupid pins" are for what I would call a three-point support:
on
this end, the truck can only swivel, while on the other end
(without
the pins), the truck can rock AND swivel.
Hope it's clear :-)

Michel Guilloux

I see! Gosh, how could we get along all these years with our other
thousands of freight car models not having those pins! This is a
revolutionary freight car innovation!


stupid pins

Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I see! Gosh, how could we get along all these years with our other
thousands of freight car models not having those pins! This is a
revolutionary freight car innovation!
============================================



I just cut some down on a few Tyco cars this past week. Since they do not meet the standards for the club layout, these will be used on the kid's 2x8 switching layout. I could probably get good money for them on EBay, but that switching layout is pretty popular with the young-uns.

The decision was also made because I could not identify a proper steam era prototype to elevate these "models" towards.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


ORERs

raildata@...
 

From my persoanl contacts the biggest users of the ORERs were yardmasters and
clerks. Knowing the car reporting marks of empties they had on hand they
could go to the ORER and determine dimensions, capacity, etc. to meet a local
shipper's needs. Also could use the data to respond the the need for empties
elsewhere on the railroad. This epalins the frequent lack of dimensional data for
private owner cars since the railroads were not allowed to reload them and all
movements were under the owner's contral.

Another use of the ORER was to determine where to send per diem and repair
costs, or the owners desire to scrap or send home cars damaged in wrecks.

The requirement to list cars in interchange was required by various state and
federal legislation, as listed in the ORER.

I doubt that shippers had much use for an ORER since the railraod supplied
cars to meet their needs. All the ORERs I ever had came from railroads/ A lot of
them had a routing attached telling where to send the old copy when a new one
arrived. It was obvious that the company bought a limited number of copies
and sent them to the major yards and stations. When the next month's copy came
the ORER was sent to a place of lesser importance and so on until they got to
tiny stations in several months. Presumably if an agent could not find a car
listed for which he had reporting marks he had to call a major yard.

Interesting fact is that until about 30 years ago modelers never seemed to
have had any interest in them. I went to an a railroadiana / moder RR auction
and picked up about 30 of them dating back to the 20s for $10!

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO


Z-bar in ORER

CBarkan@...
 

Tim,

Surely you jest! The notion that A) most people would recognize this
difference or B) that some little visual cue info would be included in the ORER to
help someone recall a car's appearance, seems highly improbable.

The Z-bar refers to a patented 1917 design for the connection between the
roof and sides of the car. It is briefly described along with a diagram in the
back pages of the ORER (ARA Circular 2569) in the section entitled "KEY PAGES
for STANDARD HEADINGS IN REGISTRATION PAGES" (pg. 788 in the Jan. 1954 ORER).
I assume that it is of interest to various parties using the ORER because of
its water-shedding design (referenced in the circular letter). I would be glad
to hear from someome who knows with more certainty about why an agent would
be interested in this feature (Gregg Mahlkov or Richard Hendrickson?).

I don't know why the W-section would be of interest but again presume that
for some reason it offered better performance in some respect.

Chris

In a message dated 2/3/04 9:29:53 PM, timboconnor@comcast.net writes:

<< Perhaps someone has mentioned it, but I think ORER's were important tools
for railroad clerks and agents, not just shippers. (If shippers cared at
all.) Noting the Z bar construction might give the agent a clearer idea of
what the car looked like which probably jogged his memory better than a
class number (B-50-15? what the heck is that?)... and so he knew if that
car were appropriate for what he needed. >>


Re: PRR X30 boxcar

Rawil Ismail <p.ismail@...>
 

"Earl Myers" <emyers5@neo.rr.com> asked:

Some time ago there was a firm that was to make a limited run of the X30
boxcar (X30?)....the one singular car used to transport American LaFrance
Firetrucks..........anybody know the progress of that boxcar???

If you want one in HO, check out Rail Classics at:
http://www.railclassics.com/freight2.htm


Pete Ismail
Colorado Springs, CO


PRR X30 boxcar

Earl Myers <emyers5@...>
 

Gents;
Some time ago there was a firm that was to make a limited run of the X30 boxcar (X30?)....the one singular car used to transport American LaFrance Firetrucks..........anybody know the progress of that boxcar???
Earl Myers


Re: MoPac covered hoppers for limestone

jerryglow2
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Brad Bourbina <bbbourb@y...> wrote:
There was also an article on these in Model
Railroading a few years ago. I'll see if I can find
that copy and let you know when it was.

Brad Bourbina
from Trains.com Model Train Magazine Index....

Missouri Pacific Limestone Hoppers
Model Railroading, August 1991 page 20
( HOPPER, LIMESTONE, "LOFTON, MARTIN", MP, FREIGHTCAR, PROTOTYPE,
MRG )


Re: Pennsylvania Car Listings - Auto Parts

Tim O'Connor
 

Shawn Beckert wrote

You and I are in the same boat; my era of interest goes
from roughly 1955 into that period of which we must not
speak here.
Shawn, us "tweenies" ought to start our own list, for freight
car modeling from the mandatory AB brake era to about 1970 --
we could call it the Baby Boomer Freight Car List (BBFCL). What
do you think?


Re: Trix / Maerklin tank car and others

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard Hendrickson writes

Now, to make my point without rancor, it is apparent from the ORERs that in
both the '50s and the '60s a large part of the Ethyl fleet - several hundred
cars - consisted of 6K gal. ICC-105s, so good models of such cars should
appeal to most members of this list, contrary to what Tim appeared to be
implying.
Don't misunderstand me. I would go ga-ga over ANY accurate Ethyl tank car.
But I guess I would -prefer- to have the smaller cars, especially if Trix
does the 6,000 gallon chlorine car and perhaps multiple dome cars. Then the
tiny cars would be great, for variety's sake.

Of course, I feel certain that we'll see the Trix car in Ethyl paint before
long... And that probably will doom any chances of getting an actual model
of an Ethyl tank car, in any size.

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