Date   

Re: Questions about NP20429, ART 62388, & DT&I 177??

Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Ben Hom wrote:
DT&I 17000-17999, IH 10 ft. I have two Paul Dunn photos of these
cars which I'll check after I get home from work today,as well as
pull the 1940 ORER data. (The DT&I site which I pulled the number
series from has a gaping hole in their ORER data between 1930 and
1953).

DT&I 17000-17999, 583 cars in January 1940. The cars are listed as general service boxcars, but some were later fitted with auto part racks. The two Paul Dunn photos are both broadside shots which don't show the ends, but show that the car sides are similar to the USRA SS boxcars, with the differences being that the DT&I car is 1 ft taller, have ladders instead of grabs, ARA standard trucks (Accurail "Bettendorf") instead of Andrews trucks, and appears to have a Hutchins roof. The car does have the hat section truss members of the USRA car. Pending better information on the ends, this might be a better choice for your kitbash from the Tichy kit if you can live with a car that's a foot too short. (There aren't any resin kits available for this car.) The hardest part of this conversion (aside from possible work on the ends) is cutting off the Tichy kit's Murphy roof and replacing it with a Hutchins roof harvested from an Accurail SS boxcar.


Ben Hom


Re: Questions about NP20429, ART 62388, & DT&I 177??

Ed Hawkins
 

On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 11:05 AM, Ted Culotta wrote:

ART 62388 looks to be very similar to the PFE R-40-10. I am just
wondering how many of these cars ART had? I have several pictures of
these cars in trains taken locally but seem to see more pictures of
steel cars with a horizontal seem along side of the car on a
national level.
Shay and Ted,
In late 1936 ART purchased a total of 1,021 steel reefers that appeared as in Will Whittaker's photo of 23868, 511 were built by AC&F and 510 from GATC. They were very similar to PFE's R-40-10 but with a few noticeable differences that included additional rivet detail around the doors and different types of hatch covers, side door hinges, and push pole pockets, plus the addition of roof guard angles located along the edge of the roof near the hatches.

The 1,021 cars were numbered from 22979-23999, except that 23141-23380 (240 cars) in the block of numbers were not originally used and were assigned to series 62141-62380. These were identified this way for dedicated on-line service until 1942 when they were renumbered to 23141-23380, thus making a consecutive block of numbers. It's virtually impossible to track these cars during their first 6 years of service because ART didn't list any car quantities in the various number groups until July 1942. By this time the 62xxx series cars had all been renumbered to the 22979-23999 series. Beginning in 1951 the cars were refurbished and received air circulating fans and Apex Tri-Lok running boards. When this occurred the cars were renumbered to 30000-30999 and 31000-31999 (separated depending on the type of fans used). The refurbishment took place over a span of several years and cars assigned from 22979-23999 had all been renumbered (or retired) by 1/54 with a total of 897 cars shown in series 30000-31999 at that time.

In Shay's original message is a reference to ART car number 62388. This would be outside the range of 62141-62380 as originally assigned by AC&F per their bill of materials. If this was the case, then ART must have renumbered some additional cars in the 62xxx series. The 7/41 ORER lists series 22979-24999 and 62000-62499, but with no quantities listed. If you have knowledge of a photo of ART 62388, I would like to verify its existence with a photo source such that I can update my records accordingly.

The 24000-series cars (later cars with the 4-panel sides and horizontal rivet seams, per my recent reply to Gene Green) were listed in the ORERs as 24000-24999. But there were only 700 cars built and assigned to this number series, so 24000-24699 was the "actual" car number series for these cars. The 24000-series cars became 32000-32999 and 33000-33999 when equipped with air circulating fans.

An article about ART's steel reefers built from 1936 to 1946 (with 4/4 Dreadnaught Ends) has been prepared and will be published in an upcoming MPHS publication "The Eagle." This is in addition to Charlie Duckworth's article about the 1936-built cars in RP CYC Vol. 2.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: NKP/MDT reefer

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 


I recall an old (ca.1978) issue of the NKP Society's magazine showing
a NKP lettering drawing for some MDT built (based on details of car
body) cars with GARX marks and a NKP herald. Possibly these were the
same cars.

LR King <lrkdbn@aol.com>
It wouldn't be the first time cars were sold to GA and leased back;
Now I'll have to add that issue to my search list

Roger Hinman




DL&W reefers

DRGW482@...
 

The question about the Atlas DL&W/NKP reefer brought another question for me
back to the forefront:
An older comment on the EL net list suggested the Branchline ACF reefer may
be a reasonable stand-in for a DL&W wood reefer.
I have not had too much luck locating information these, but I would like one
or two for a ...hmmm... 1945-55 time frame.

Thank you very much,

Martin Goller


Re: Trix Double Door, 40' box car

Richard Hendrickson
 

At one point I was working toward this using the Metcalfe book and the
Champ catalog. I seem to recall it looked promising, although I don't
know if Champ had 100% accuracy and completeness. Of course this research
should have been a waste of time... if Trix hadn't crossed up what class
the models match!
Maybe a Trix "repaint version" would only need a few items changed?
Scott Pitzer
Car number, class number, and built date would have to be changed, of course.
Dimesnional data wouldn't be the same, but then the Champ decal sets don't
include the exact dimensional data for the A-50-16s either. But it would
be simpler than repainting and relettering the entire model.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Trix Double Door, 40' box car

Scott Pitzer
 

At one point I was working toward this using the Metcalfe book and the Champ catalog. I seem to recall it looked promising, although I don't know if Champ had 100% accuracy and completeness. Of course this research should have been a waste of time... if Trix hadn't crossed up what class the models match!
Maybe a Trix "repaint version" would only need a few items changed?
Scott Pitzer

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
Sent: Feb 13, 2004 9:55 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Trix Double Door, 40' box car

Brian Carlson writes:

In 1957 would class A-50-19 still be hauling Auto's or Autoparts? If not,
is it possible these cars may have hauled lumber?

Finally, who makes the correct decals for this car? Ok I guess that is 3
questions.
These cars were originally equipped with Evans auto racks, but the racks
were removed in 1955 and the cars renumbered 175000-175499. After that,
they were in the UP's general merchandise box car pool and could well have
carried lumber.

These cars would certainly have been repainted at least once before 1957,
so they would have hAD all yellow lettering with either the 'Streamliners"
and "Be Specific" slogans or (after 1956) 20" Union Pacific and "Be
Specific" on both sides. Terry Metcalfe's UP freight car book, now
regrettably out of print, provides photos of both, plus all the details on
UP lettering changes over the years.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520






Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: NKP/MDT reefer

Ray Breyer <rbreyer@...>
 

Atlas is releasing this car in HO as well. No one in the NKPHTS has any
information on this car's lettering or paint, so we NKP'ers have no idea if
the car is right or not (we looked into this issue last week, and Atlas
ain't sayin' where they got the lettering specs from). We like the car
though, and there will be lots of them sold to happy NKP modelers.

Ray Breyer

-----Original Message-----
From: Len Allman [mailto:allmansipe@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 11:14 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NKP/MDT reefer

Hello,
Atlas O has reoleased an MDT reefer in NKP/LACKAWANNA
DAIRY SERVICE in yellow w/ black lettering. Is this
scheme correct? Comments please.

Thanks,
Len Allman


Re: NKP/MDT reefer

lrkdbn
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Roger Hinman <rhinman@r...> wrote:
I have seen this decal and also an older Athearn car with a similar
scheme showing a white MDT M4(wood car) with NKP leasing marks. I
have
never
seen a photo to verify this either.

However, NKP did buy a series of 400 of these cars from MDT new in
the
1920s that were numbered NKP 60000-60399; at least two of these
were
converted to milk service later in their careers, NKP 700-701

So if you want to be safe, you put an MDT reefer on your layout and
letter it for NKP. I do not know the proper paint scheme for NKP
cars,
perhaps that is mentioned in the article you referenced.

Roger Hinman

I recall an old (ca.1978) issue of the NKP Society's magazine showing
a NKP lettering drawing for some MDT built (based on details of car
body) cars with GARX marks and a NKP herald. Possibly these were the
same cars.

LR King <lrkdbn@aol.com>



On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 08:02 PM, enobiko wrote:

Walthers has a decal set for the NKP/MDT reefer, part #72440. Any
photos of this car? The description says "white", does that mean
white reefer or white lettering? I have the NKP Historical
magazine
Spring 2000 issue that covers the NKP reefers, but no photo of the
MDT reefers there. The only MDT reefers I turn up are NYC, which
I
would prefer not to have on my NKP layout.
Dean Payne




Yahoo! Groups Links





Re: Questions about NP20429, ART 62388, & DT&I 177??

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Shay Stark asked:
"NP 20429 is a 40 foot single sheathed boxcar with metal ends, metal
door and a radial roof. The picture I have was taken in 1941. I am
wondering what type of under frame this car has, i.e. fish belly or
straight frame? What is the configuration of the ribs on the ends?"

Equipment Diagram:
http://research.nprha.org/NP%20Box%20Cars/Box%20Cars%2020000.jpg

Straight underframe; ends are indeterminate on the equipment diagram
but suspect Dreadnaught ends based on 1931-1932 date. Don't take my
word for this - get a picture to confirm the ends.

"Finally I am wondering how tall the car is. I am asking this because
I have a Tichy USRA SS boxcar that I am wondering if I might be
able to heavily modify into an accurate version of the car. The
sides of the USRA car look a little tall but I am not sure. I know
Sunshine is going to offer this car but I am not one to pass up a
challenging kit-bashing project."

IH = 8 ft 9 in; IH of the USRA SS boxcar is 9 ft. The sides look too
tall because they are. Why not build the Sunshine kit and use the
Tichy kit for a USRA SS boxcar that DID show up on the Bamberger?
You can't cut down the sides without screwing up the truss, and with
the resin kit available, this kitbash hits the point of diminshing
returns pretty quickly.


"DTI 177?? is a 40 foot single sheathed car with an interesting steel
end which is flat except for two wide raised vertical ribs. The door
on the car is wood. I don't have any other information on this car.
Could some one point me to pictures or other information on this
type of car."

DT&I 17000-17999, IH 10 ft. I have two Paul Dunn photos of these
cars which I'll check after I get home from work today,as well as
pull the 1940 ORER data. (The DT&I sit which I pulled the number
series from has a gaping hole in their ORER data between 1930 and
1953).


Ben Hom


Re: NKP/MDT reefer

Len Allman <allmansipe@...>
 

Hello,
Atlas O has reoleased an MDT reefer in NKP/LACKAWANNA
DAIRY SERVICE in yellow w/ black lettering. Is this
scheme correct? Comments please.

Thanks,
Len Allman


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Re: Questions about NP20429, ART 62388, & DT&I 177??

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Feb 13, 2004, at 10:50 AM, shaystark wrote:

NP  20429 is a 40 foot single sheathed boxcar with metal ends, metal
door and a radial roof. The picture I have was taken in 1941. I am
wondering what type of under frame this car has, i.e. fish belly or
straight frame? What is the configuration of the ribs on the ends?
Finally I am wondering how tall the car is. I am asking this because
I have a Tichey USRA SS boxcar that I am wondering if I might be
able to heavily modify into an accurate version of the car. The
sides of the USRA car look a little tall but I am not sure. I know
Sunshine is going to offer this car but I am not one to pass up a
challenging kit-bashing project.

If you scroll down, you will see the NP car pictured here in kit form
from Sunshine.
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/modeling/new%20products/sunshine/
nap2003main.html

ART 62388 looks to be very similar to the PFE R-40-10. I am just
wondering how many of these cars ART had? I have several pictures of
these cars in trains taken locally but seem to see more pictures of
steel cars with a horizontal seem along side of the car on a
national level.

Sunshine also offers this ART car. I believe that Railway Prototype
Cyclopedia 2 covered these cars in detail. Here is a slightly
different version of the same car.
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/reefer/art23868main.html

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Questions about NP20429, ART 62388, & DT&I 177??

SHAY STARK
 

In order to acquire an accurate fleet of cars that would be
representative of those found along the portion of the rail line
that I model, I use a convoluted equation involving on line
industries and types of cars serving those industries along with the
origination locations of cars. All of this theory is then brought
back to reality by compairing this with photographs to determine
specific cars for modeling.

A specific example of how this works is a carbonic supplier in Salt
Lake City purchased dry ice from an eastern manufacturer. I also
know from comments by a person who switched the plant that the ice
was supplied in MDT refers. I have found photographs of MDT refers
on the line and so I will model those specific series of cars to
serve this plant. This is as close as I can get without having
actual switch lists.

I have found a few cars that I don't have much information about
that I would like to model. I am wondering if someone may have or be
able to point me to some basic information about the following cars.
As a side note all of the cars that I am referring to have found in
pictures taken on the Bamberger Railroad between Salt Lake City and
Ogden, Utah between 1941 and 1943.

NP 20429 is a 40 foot single sheathed boxcar with metal ends, metal
door and a radial roof. The picture I have was taken in 1941. I am
wondering what type of under frame this car has, i.e. fish belly or
straight frame? What is the configuration of the ribs on the ends?
Finally I am wondering how tall the car is. I am asking this because
I have a Tichey USRA SS boxcar that I am wondering if I might be
able to heavily modify into an accurate version of the car. The
sides of the USRA car look a little tall but I am not sure. I know
Sunshine is going to offer this car but I am not one to pass up a
challenging kit-bashing project.

ART 62388 looks to be very similar to the PFE R-40-10. I am just
wondering how many of these cars ART had? I have several pictures of
these cars in trains taken locally but seem to see more pictures of
steel cars with a horizontal seem along side of the car on a
national level.

DTI 177?? is a 40 foot single sheathed car with an interesting steel
end which is flat except for two wide raised vertical ribs. The door
on the car is wood. I don't have any other information on this car.
Could some one point me to pictures or other information on this
type of car.

Thanks

Shay Stark


Re: Trix Double Door, 40' box car

Richard Hendrickson
 

Brian Carlson writes:

In 1957 would class A-50-19 still be hauling Auto's or Autoparts? If not,
is it possible these cars may have hauled lumber?

Finally, who makes the correct decals for this car? Ok I guess that is 3
questions.
These cars were originally equipped with Evans auto racks, but the racks
were removed in 1955 and the cars renumbered 175000-175499. After that,
they were in the UP's general merchandise box car pool and could well have
carried lumber.

These cars would certainly have been repainted at least once before 1957,
so they would have hAD all yellow lettering with either the 'Streamliners"
and "Be Specific" slogans or (after 1956) 20" Union Pacific and "Be
Specific" on both sides. Terry Metcalfe's UP freight car book, now
regrettably out of print, provides photos of both, plus all the details on
UP lettering changes over the years.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


WVC&P books

Kathe Robin <kathe@...>
 

Eric-

These went out via UPS on Wednesday.

Talk to you soon,

Max


Madison Wisconsin--Model Railroad Show and Sale--This weekend

Peter Reinhold <paintplustrains@...>
 

List,

If you are in the Madison Wisconsin area don't miss this show. There
are over 300 vendor tables and many, many layouts. See you this weekend
the 14th and 15th. The show runs 9-5 both days.

http://www.scwd-nmra.org/febshow.php

Pete Reinhold

paintplustrains@chorus.net


Re: 2 more H30 photos

Eric Hansmann <ehansmann@...>
 

Thanks for the images Bill. While I do enjoy the subject matter, I find
some neat details caught in the background as well. From motor trucks to
architecture to spare parts bins, wow. Lots of neat details in these
images.

Thanks again.

Eric Hansmann
Morgantown, W. Va.


Re: Monon Question

Tim O'Connor
 

First Q? Metal or Wood Roofwalk, my box had both inside........
Scott, all PS-1 box cars, and all box cars and reefers built
after 1944, had steel running boards. Come to think of it, a
wood running board is not included in a normal Intermountain
PS-1 kit, so why they put one in there is a mystery! Several
railroads switched to steel running boards even earlier -- SP
switched in 1940 and never looked back.


Re: 2 more H30 photos

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

BTW, note the row of Class X23 boxcars in the background.

http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=BuildersPhotos/X37B_67131_roof_BillLane.jpg&fr=


Ben Hom


Re: 2 more H30 photos

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Chet French asked:
Is that the Alan Wood design running boards on the H30's?

Never saw one without the slots, but the tread pattern sure looks
similar, if not the same. Here's one on a Class X37B boxcar:

http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=BuildersPhotos/X37B_67131_roof_BillLane.jpg&fr=


Ben Hom


Re: 2 more H30 photos

Chet French <cfrench@...>
 

Is that the Alan Wood design running boards on the H30's?

Chet French
Dixon, IL

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Lane" <billlane@c...> wrote:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/2_H30_OH.jpg

Thank You,
Bill Lane

http://www.lanestrains.com
http://www.pennsysmodels.com
Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957

161681 - 161700 of 189722