Date   

Re: C&EI Caboose

Paul Hillman
 

Tim,

Thanks for the link to the steel C&EI caboose. I remember seeing the steel-versions always on freights, and only the wood-caboose on the Clearing-Freight. Guess it was the last one left-over from the wood-caboose days.

Paul Hillman


Re: C&EI Caboose

Paul Hillman
 

Thanks Jim, !!!

Hadn't heard of Morning Sun's book, but researched it and will be getting a copy. May be just what I've been seeking.

"Cabooses of the MP", is also desirable, but so far found to be only available through the MPHS and rather expensive to non-members.

Paul Hillman


Re: Hutchins Ends

Richard Hendrickson
 

In a message dated 2/13/04 9:01:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rhendrickson@opendoor.com writes:

<< Also, one of the photos I have of a
DT&I 17000 series car has another car in the same series next to it and the
ends were 4 panel Hutchins. Now if someone wants to make patterns for a
resin kit.... >>

Richard,

Were these ends four separate panels or two over two?
two over two, with a single riveted center seam.

Does anyone know if the stampings
were the same for both single and double sheathed cars or were the stampings
extended to correspond to a (wider) DS type construction?
Comparing the Hutchins end in a photo of a Southern 36' double wood
sheathed box car with the Hutchins end on a Pere Marquette single sheathed
auto car, it's apparent that the distance from the ends of the panels to
the corners is greater on the Southern car.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: DL&W reefers

Jedalberg
 

About two score years ago I was walking around Johnson City, Tenn and came
upon a Lackawanna steel reefer on a siding, and because it was something DL&W, I
took a picture. Actually, it was an MDT car,with the rectangular Lackawanna
Railroad herald on the right side.As soon as I got home I did up an Athearn
reefer, ordered a decal set from Walthers and put the car in service. It still
is. Of course I took the easy way and the number is 12345, which of course, I
would never do that way today!
Jim Dalberg
Paoli, Pa


Re: DL&W reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

Microscale makes set # 87-890 (in HO), Merchants Dispatch 40' Refrigerator
Cars (1930-1973) that includes lettering for Lackawanna. It includes the
words
'Lackawanna Refrigerator Line' and the rectangular logo with 'Lackawanna
Railroad' in it.
The diagram shows a car numbered 12091, with the logo and the word
'Refrigerator' on an orange car with boxcar red roof and black underframe
. There is no
diagram for a car with 'Lackawanna Refrigerator Line'. HTH Bill
Well, thanks to my sieve-like memory, I'd forgotten all about that set -
and Jerry Stewart and I provided the prototype data for it. Of course,
that was in the previous century....

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Hutchins Ends

Guy Wilber
 

In a message dated 2/13/04 9:01:00 PM Pacific Standard Time,
rhendrickson@opendoor.com writes:

<< Also, one of the photos I have of a
DT&I 17000 series car has another car in the same series next to it and the
ends were 4 panel Hutchins. Now if someone wants to make patterns for a
resin kit.... >>

Richard,

Were these ends four separate panels or two over two? The Western Pacific
had auto cars that were built with Hutchins ends with four separate panels, but
I have yet to see these on another car. Does anyone know if the stampings
were the same for both single and double sheathed cars or were the stampings
extended to correspond to a (wider) DS type construction?

Regards,

Guy Wilber
Sparks, Nevada


Re: Questions about NP20429, ART 62388, & DT&I 177??

Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Ben overlooked one small but important fact about these cars which complicates the idea of a kitbash: they had 7' wide doors, and the side framing was compressed accordingly. Also, one of the photos I have of a DT&I 17000 series car has another car in the same series next to it and the ends were 4 panel Hutchins. Now if someone wants to make patterns for a resin kit....

Well, this certainly puts us in Stand-in-ville. Thanks for the assist, Richard. Any good DT&I modelers out there who aren't in to modeling giant pink and blue boxcars who wants to take this on?


Ben Hom


Re: DL&W reefers

DRGW482@...
 

thank you for the answers! Much appreciated.

Best regards,

Martin


Re: DL&W reefers

gene48@...
 

I believe that Microscale has a set which contains lettering for the Lackawanna cars. I am on vacation and can't check my set but I do remember the LRX reporting marks on set.

Gene Deimling

Martin Goller writes:

The question about the Atlas DL&W/NKP reefer brought another question for me
back to the forefront:
An older comment on the EL net list suggested the Branchline ACF reefer may
be a reasonable stand-in for a DL&W wood reefer.
I have not had too much luck locating information these, but I would like one
or two for a ...hmmm... 1945-55 time frame.
In 1945 the Lackawanna had a small number of company-owned reefers in
on-line ice service, but the LRX cars were operated for them by Merchants
Despatch Transportation and were standard MDT cars numbered LRX 7000-7299.
By 10/50 these cars had apparently been either purchased or (if oringally
Lackawanna-owned) reclaimed from MDT and were in the process of being
re-stenciled DL&W, though they retained their original numbers.

Dimensions and basic construction were very similar to the AC&F cars
modeled by Branchline, though there were a number of detail differences. I
have photos of these cars both before and after the change in ownership.I'm
not aware of any source for decal or dry transdfer lettering.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520






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Re: DL&W reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

Martin Goller writes:

The question about the Atlas DL&W/NKP reefer brought another question for me
back to the forefront:
An older comment on the EL net list suggested the Branchline ACF reefer may
be a reasonable stand-in for a DL&W wood reefer.
I have not had too much luck locating information these, but I would like one
or two for a ...hmmm... 1945-55 time frame.
In 1945 the Lackawanna had a small number of company-owned reefers in
on-line ice service, but the LRX cars were operated for them by Merchants
Despatch Transportation and were standard MDT cars numbered LRX 7000-7299.
By 10/50 these cars had apparently been either purchased or (if oringally
Lackawanna-owned) reclaimed from MDT and were in the process of being
re-stenciled DL&W, though they retained their original numbers.

Dimensions and basic construction were very similar to the AC&F cars
modeled by Branchline, though there were a number of detail differences. I
have photos of these cars both before and after the change in ownership.I'm
not aware of any source for decal or dry transdfer lettering.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Questions about NP20429, ART 62388, & DT&I 177??

Richard Hendrickson
 

Ben Hom wrote:

DT&I 17000-17999, 583 cars in January 1940. The cars are listed as
general service boxcars, but some were later fitted with auto part racks.
The two Paul Dunn photos are both broadside shots which don't show the
ends, but show that the car sides are similar to the USRA SS boxcars, with
the differences being that the DT&I car is 1 ft taller, have ladders
instead of grabs, ARA standard trucks (Accurail "Bettendorf") instead of
Andrews trucks, and appears to have a Hutchins roof. The car does have
the hat section truss members of the USRA car.
Ben overlooked one small but important fact about these cars which
complicates the idea of a kitbash: they had 7' wide doors, and the side
framing was compressed accordingly. Also, one of the photos I have of a
DT&I 17000 series car has another car in the same series next to it and the
ends were 4 panel Hutchins. Now if someone wants to make patterns for a
resin kit....

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: DL&W reefers

BillyDee53@...
 

Microscale makes set # 87-890 (in HO), Merchants Dispatch 40' Refrigerator
Cars (1930-1973) that includes lettering for Lackawanna. It includes the words
'Lackawanna Refrigerator Line' and the rectangular logo with 'Lackawanna
Railroad' in it.
The diagram shows a car numbered 12091, with the logo and the word
'Refrigerator' on an orange car with boxcar red roof and black underframe . There is no
diagram for a car with 'Lackawanna Refrigerator Line'. HTH Bill


Re: Questions about NP20429, ART 62388, & DT&I 177??

Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Ben Hom wrote:
DT&I 17000-17999, IH 10 ft. I have two Paul Dunn photos of these
cars which I'll check after I get home from work today,as well as
pull the 1940 ORER data. (The DT&I site which I pulled the number
series from has a gaping hole in their ORER data between 1930 and
1953).

DT&I 17000-17999, 583 cars in January 1940. The cars are listed as general service boxcars, but some were later fitted with auto part racks. The two Paul Dunn photos are both broadside shots which don't show the ends, but show that the car sides are similar to the USRA SS boxcars, with the differences being that the DT&I car is 1 ft taller, have ladders instead of grabs, ARA standard trucks (Accurail "Bettendorf") instead of Andrews trucks, and appears to have a Hutchins roof. The car does have the hat section truss members of the USRA car. Pending better information on the ends, this might be a better choice for your kitbash from the Tichy kit if you can live with a car that's a foot too short. (There aren't any resin kits available for this car.) The hardest part of this conversion (aside from possible work on the ends) is cutting off the Tichy kit's Murphy roof and replacing it with a Hutchins roof harvested from an Accurail SS boxcar.


Ben Hom


Re: Questions about NP20429, ART 62388, & DT&I 177??

Ed Hawkins
 

On Friday, February 13, 2004, at 11:05 AM, Ted Culotta wrote:

ART 62388 looks to be very similar to the PFE R-40-10. I am just
wondering how many of these cars ART had? I have several pictures of
these cars in trains taken locally but seem to see more pictures of
steel cars with a horizontal seem along side of the car on a
national level.
Shay and Ted,
In late 1936 ART purchased a total of 1,021 steel reefers that appeared as in Will Whittaker's photo of 23868, 511 were built by AC&F and 510 from GATC. They were very similar to PFE's R-40-10 but with a few noticeable differences that included additional rivet detail around the doors and different types of hatch covers, side door hinges, and push pole pockets, plus the addition of roof guard angles located along the edge of the roof near the hatches.

The 1,021 cars were numbered from 22979-23999, except that 23141-23380 (240 cars) in the block of numbers were not originally used and were assigned to series 62141-62380. These were identified this way for dedicated on-line service until 1942 when they were renumbered to 23141-23380, thus making a consecutive block of numbers. It's virtually impossible to track these cars during their first 6 years of service because ART didn't list any car quantities in the various number groups until July 1942. By this time the 62xxx series cars had all been renumbered to the 22979-23999 series. Beginning in 1951 the cars were refurbished and received air circulating fans and Apex Tri-Lok running boards. When this occurred the cars were renumbered to 30000-30999 and 31000-31999 (separated depending on the type of fans used). The refurbishment took place over a span of several years and cars assigned from 22979-23999 had all been renumbered (or retired) by 1/54 with a total of 897 cars shown in series 30000-31999 at that time.

In Shay's original message is a reference to ART car number 62388. This would be outside the range of 62141-62380 as originally assigned by AC&F per their bill of materials. If this was the case, then ART must have renumbered some additional cars in the 62xxx series. The 7/41 ORER lists series 22979-24999 and 62000-62499, but with no quantities listed. If you have knowledge of a photo of ART 62388, I would like to verify its existence with a photo source such that I can update my records accordingly.

The 24000-series cars (later cars with the 4-panel sides and horizontal rivet seams, per my recent reply to Gene Green) were listed in the ORERs as 24000-24999. But there were only 700 cars built and assigned to this number series, so 24000-24699 was the "actual" car number series for these cars. The 24000-series cars became 32000-32999 and 33000-33999 when equipped with air circulating fans.

An article about ART's steel reefers built from 1936 to 1946 (with 4/4 Dreadnaught Ends) has been prepared and will be published in an upcoming MPHS publication "The Eagle." This is in addition to Charlie Duckworth's article about the 1936-built cars in RP CYC Vol. 2.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: NKP/MDT reefer

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 


I recall an old (ca.1978) issue of the NKP Society's magazine showing
a NKP lettering drawing for some MDT built (based on details of car
body) cars with GARX marks and a NKP herald. Possibly these were the
same cars.

LR King <lrkdbn@aol.com>
It wouldn't be the first time cars were sold to GA and leased back;
Now I'll have to add that issue to my search list

Roger Hinman




DL&W reefers

DRGW482@...
 

The question about the Atlas DL&W/NKP reefer brought another question for me
back to the forefront:
An older comment on the EL net list suggested the Branchline ACF reefer may
be a reasonable stand-in for a DL&W wood reefer.
I have not had too much luck locating information these, but I would like one
or two for a ...hmmm... 1945-55 time frame.

Thank you very much,

Martin Goller


Re: Trix Double Door, 40' box car

Richard Hendrickson
 

At one point I was working toward this using the Metcalfe book and the
Champ catalog. I seem to recall it looked promising, although I don't
know if Champ had 100% accuracy and completeness. Of course this research
should have been a waste of time... if Trix hadn't crossed up what class
the models match!
Maybe a Trix "repaint version" would only need a few items changed?
Scott Pitzer
Car number, class number, and built date would have to be changed, of course.
Dimesnional data wouldn't be the same, but then the Champ decal sets don't
include the exact dimensional data for the A-50-16s either. But it would
be simpler than repainting and relettering the entire model.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Trix Double Door, 40' box car

Scott Pitzer
 

At one point I was working toward this using the Metcalfe book and the Champ catalog. I seem to recall it looked promising, although I don't know if Champ had 100% accuracy and completeness. Of course this research should have been a waste of time... if Trix hadn't crossed up what class the models match!
Maybe a Trix "repaint version" would only need a few items changed?
Scott Pitzer

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
Sent: Feb 13, 2004 9:55 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Trix Double Door, 40' box car

Brian Carlson writes:

In 1957 would class A-50-19 still be hauling Auto's or Autoparts? If not,
is it possible these cars may have hauled lumber?

Finally, who makes the correct decals for this car? Ok I guess that is 3
questions.
These cars were originally equipped with Evans auto racks, but the racks
were removed in 1955 and the cars renumbered 175000-175499. After that,
they were in the UP's general merchandise box car pool and could well have
carried lumber.

These cars would certainly have been repainted at least once before 1957,
so they would have hAD all yellow lettering with either the 'Streamliners"
and "Be Specific" slogans or (after 1956) 20" Union Pacific and "Be
Specific" on both sides. Terry Metcalfe's UP freight car book, now
regrettably out of print, provides photos of both, plus all the details on
UP lettering changes over the years.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520






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Re: NKP/MDT reefer

Ray Breyer <rbreyer@...>
 

Atlas is releasing this car in HO as well. No one in the NKPHTS has any
information on this car's lettering or paint, so we NKP'ers have no idea if
the car is right or not (we looked into this issue last week, and Atlas
ain't sayin' where they got the lettering specs from). We like the car
though, and there will be lots of them sold to happy NKP modelers.

Ray Breyer

-----Original Message-----
From: Len Allman [mailto:allmansipe@yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2004 11:14 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NKP/MDT reefer

Hello,
Atlas O has reoleased an MDT reefer in NKP/LACKAWANNA
DAIRY SERVICE in yellow w/ black lettering. Is this
scheme correct? Comments please.

Thanks,
Len Allman


Re: NKP/MDT reefer

lrkdbn
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Roger Hinman <rhinman@r...> wrote:
I have seen this decal and also an older Athearn car with a similar
scheme showing a white MDT M4(wood car) with NKP leasing marks. I
have
never
seen a photo to verify this either.

However, NKP did buy a series of 400 of these cars from MDT new in
the
1920s that were numbered NKP 60000-60399; at least two of these
were
converted to milk service later in their careers, NKP 700-701

So if you want to be safe, you put an MDT reefer on your layout and
letter it for NKP. I do not know the proper paint scheme for NKP
cars,
perhaps that is mentioned in the article you referenced.

Roger Hinman

I recall an old (ca.1978) issue of the NKP Society's magazine showing
a NKP lettering drawing for some MDT built (based on details of car
body) cars with GARX marks and a NKP herald. Possibly these were the
same cars.

LR King <lrkdbn@aol.com>



On Thursday, February 12, 2004, at 08:02 PM, enobiko wrote:

Walthers has a decal set for the NKP/MDT reefer, part #72440. Any
photos of this car? The description says "white", does that mean
white reefer or white lettering? I have the NKP Historical
magazine
Spring 2000 issue that covers the NKP reefers, but no photo of the
MDT reefers there. The only MDT reefers I turn up are NYC, which
I
would prefer not to have on my NKP layout.
Dean Payne




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