Date   

Southern Pacific Copeland Reports

Shawn Beckert
 

Guys,

Looking over the list of NWU Copeland material that
Earl posted to files, I see that they have interchange
reports for the Southern Pacific in 1955 and 1956.

What exactly would these interchange reports show? Do
they list by carloads or tonnage? And do they indicate
the specific railroads the SP interchanged with?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert


Re: Buffalo interchanges

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Rob Kirkham wrote:

I've never made any study of this, and I don't have much geographic
knowledge of railways in southern Ontario (the Canadian connection to this
subject). But looking at the Railway Transport Reports published by the
Dominion Bureau of Statistics for 1953, I can tell you the following
regarding the total Canadian traffic of the three roads you list (in tons):

traffic originated received from
received from
on line in Canada other roads in foreign
(i.e. USA)
Canada
connections Total

(C & O) PM 923,337 394,594 3,146,028
4,463,959

Wabash 130,514 61,193
4,042,963 4,234,670

NYC (CASO) 1,417,110 1,884,469 6,218,609
9,520,188
Did the Dominion Bureau of Statistics break down how many of these tons were terminated in Canada, and how many tons crossed the border into the United States? I.e. - Tons Originated on Line in Canada plus Tons Received from Other Roads in Canada plus Tons Received from the USA should equal Tons Terminated on Line in Canada plus Tons Delivered to Other Canadian Roads plus Tons Delivered to the USA.

Did the Bureau provide any equivalent "car" data? Or would a conversion of the tons of the assorted commodities into cars have to suffice?


This info is broken down i the reports into dozens of commodities, so you
can get far more specific about this sort of thing. Obviously, if these
lines had Canadian connections other than in the geographic region you are
concerned with, the numbers for those lines are included in these figures.
Tim Gilbert


Re: Buffalo interchanges

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

ed_mines wrote:

PM, Wabash & NYC (CASO) had rail lines through Canada connecting
Detroit and Buffalo.

Was there significant interchange from these roads in Buffalo or
were there restrictions (loads had to be in Canadian cars)? I know
PM had Canadian division cars.
There were no restrictions from customs in the freight cars crossing the US-Canadian border on account of ownership of those cars.


As an aside I lived in Rochester in the '70s and was active in
weightlifting contests. We always had contestants from Michigan who
drove through Canada.
I guess that they did save toll money by avoiding the Ohio Turnpike.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Buffalo interchanges

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Rob,

I think it was 1957, they adopted the classification scheme the ICC used --
if not the same very, very close.

Prior to that it's hard to do comparisons on more than a few commodities,
stuff like lumber, coal, etc that's really just one or two things can be
reasonably well compared to US data but as you saw most of it cannot.

IIRC the data I moved into spreadsheets indicated only about 10% of cars
loaded in Canada crossed the border, something I found quite interesting as
the wheel report data I have has Canadian cars underrepresented by about 90%
of what they would be if they were distributed as any American boxcar was.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Kirkham [mailto:rdkirkham@shaw.ca]
Sent: Sunday, February 22, 2004 7:24 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Buffalo interchanges


I've never made any study of this, and I don't have much geographic
knowledge of railways in southern Ontario (the Canadian connection to this
subject). But looking at the Railway Transport Reports published by the
Dominion Bureau of Statistics for 1953, I can tell you the following
regarding the total Canadian traffic of the three roads you list (in tons):

traffic originated received from
received from
on line in Canada other roads in foreign
(i.e. USA)
Canada
connections Total

(C & O) PM 923,337 394,594 3,146,028
4,463,959

Wabash 130,514 61,193
4,042,963 4,234,670

NYC (CASO) 1,417,110 1,884,469 6,218,609
9,520,188

This info is broken down i nthe reports into dozens of commodities, so you
can get far more specific about this sort of thing. Obviously, if these
lines had Canadian connections other than in the geographic region you are
concerned with, the numbers for those lines are included in these figures.

Unfortunately, I have never seen Canadian stats that are the equivalents for
the very useful interchange Stats that Tim Gilbert has been able to compile
from U.S. sources. I also have never taken the time to computerise the
ata - someday.

Hope this helps,

Rob Kirkham





Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: NWP and WP boxcar information.

Richard Hendrickson
 

On behalf of a CSRM project, I would like to ask the listers whether
anyone might know the following:

* NWP USRA boxcars (1900 series): Does anyone know what might have
been the number(s) of the very last car(s) that would have been in
*regular interchange service*?
Most of them (94 of 100 as of 1/55) were still in revenue service at the
time the Southern Pacific took over all of the NWP rolling stock in the
mid-1950s. Maybe Tony will know whether the SP retired them or renumbered
them into the SP roster.

* WP Pullman-built single sheathed boxcars **without hatches!**
(26000) series: Same question.
Denny, I saw and photographed WP 26019 sitting forlornly on a deserted spur
near Oroville ca. 1970 with its air brake equipment removed but still on
its original Andrews trucks. I can't say for certain that it was the last
car in revenue service, but it must have been among the very last of the
Mohicans at that date (except, of course, for those that were converted
into MW cars). I can send you a print of the photo if you would like.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Buffalo interchanges

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

Sorry - the titles for my last e-mail were garbled. The four columns
contain figures for:
a) traffic originated on line in Canada
b) traffic received from other roads in Canada
c) traffic received from foreign (i.e. USA) connections
d) total

Hopefully that is enough to make sense of the first e-mail.

Rob Kirkham


Re: NWP and WP boxcar information.

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

On behalf of a CSRM project, I would like to ask the listers whether anyone might know the following:

* NWP USRA boxcars (1900 series): Does anyone know what might have been the number(s) of the very last car(s) that would have been in *regular interchange service*?

* WP Pullman-built single sheathed boxcars **without hatches!** (26000) series: Same question.

Any help would be more than a little appreciated.

Thanks.

Denny
--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA


Re: Buffalo interchanges

Rob Kirkham <rdkirkham@...>
 

I've never made any study of this, and I don't have much geographic
knowledge of railways in southern Ontario (the Canadian connection to this
subject). But looking at the Railway Transport Reports published by the
Dominion Bureau of Statistics for 1953, I can tell you the following
regarding the total Canadian traffic of the three roads you list (in tons):

traffic originated received from
received from
on line in Canada other roads in foreign
(i.e. USA)
Canada
connections Total

(C & O) PM 923,337 394,594 3,146,028
4,463,959

Wabash 130,514 61,193
4,042,963 4,234,670

NYC (CASO) 1,417,110 1,884,469 6,218,609
9,520,188

This info is broken down i nthe reports into dozens of commodities, so you
can get far more specific about this sort of thing. Obviously, if these
lines had Canadian connections other than in the geographic region you are
concerned with, the numbers for those lines are included in these figures.

Unfortunately, I have never seen Canadian stats that are the equivalents for
the very useful interchange Stats that Tim Gilbert has been able to compile
from U.S. sources. I also have never taken the time to computerise the
ata - someday.

Hope this helps,

Rob Kirkham


Buffalo interchanges

ed_mines
 

PM, Wabash & NYC (CASO) had rail lines through Canada connecting
Detroit and Buffalo.

Was there significant interchange from these roads in Buffalo or
were there restrictions (loads had to be in Canadian cars)? I know
PM had Canadian division cars.

As an aside I lived in Rochester in the '70s and was active in
weightlifting contests. We always had contestants from Michigan who
drove through Canada.

Ed Mines


Re: NWU H. H. Copeland holdings

Earl Tuson
 

Tim Gilbert asked offlist:

If it ain't too much of a bother, can you send me
a list of all the Interchange Reports at Northwestern.
In the files section, you can find all pages of the list, as I have
scanned them in afterall (beats typing out the list Tim requested!)

Earl Tuson


Re: NWU H. H. Copeland holdings

Earl Tuson
 

I would encourage any requests for listings to me made
offlist, but I have a suggestion for the two shortlines
asked about- since no information is specifically listed
for either the B&ML or U&D, I would check the information
for the interchanging roads to get at least those
statistics. For example, the B&M listings have traffic
interchange data for the G&J, HT&W, M&WR, and Woodstock but
alas, even this is no sure thing. No numbers are given for
the SV interchange.

Earl Tuson

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Re: NWU H. H. Copeland holdings

Joel Norman <mec-bml@...>
 

HH COPELAND.......Anything in there on the B&ML????

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Delibert" <STEVDEL@prodigy.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2004 10:47 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NWU H. H. Copeland holdings


Was there anything in there on the Ulster & Delaware, independent upstate
New York regional until absorbed by the NYC in 1932?
Thanks
Steve Delibert
----- Original Message -----
From: "etuson" <etuson@yahoo.com>

Several years ago, when I visited NWU to research their H. H.Copeland
holdings, I photocopied the listing of those holdings, compiled by
Ron Glas in 1990. I don't want to scan in the entire list, but if
someone wants to know what is in the collection for a road they are
interested in, I'd be happy to share that portion.




Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: Koppers Coal Tar tank car

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

In regard to Jerry's plea for 6k or 8k insulated tank cars, I second his
request for them. It seems that the cars we have been lucky enough to
see are pressure cars with the small domes. It would be nice to see
cars with the larger non-pressure domes that are insulated. Along with
the cars, perhaps we can convince one of the remaining decal firms to
make decals for these cars so that we did not have to rely on lettering
sets that have no basis in fact other than an advertising persons
imagination.

Tom Olsen

Thomas Olsen wrote:


Jerry,

Even if we could get the cars, decals are not available from any source
at present. Even Champ no longer carries them. They dropped them from
the line along with UTLX because of the difficulty in getting the yellow
inks that are needed to make the decals. The EPA put the kibosh on
certain colors due to the toxicity of the ingredients and the yellow ink
that Champ used fell into this category.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware

switchengines wrote:

Richard Hendrickson, responded to the question on Koppers Coal Tar
tank cars, and this is the same conclusions I had come to examining
many photos of the cars that I had collected over the years. For my
2 cents worth on this subject, item number 3 of Richard's reply hit a
need that has interested me for many years, and is a model I have
felt is both needed, and would make a very intesting car. A Standard
Tank Car Company, 8k, insulated tank car. Or in fact, any Standard
Tank Car Company 8k car, non-insulated or insulated. This very
interesting prototype, seems to have made it into many oil company
fleets, and the major tank car lessors as well.
But back to the Koppers tank cars, what an intersting model this
8k insulated car would make. With the funky heater pipes coming out
the end of the tank body, I can almost smell the coal tar, well
almost!
A model of this intersting group of cars would surely fill a need
for both an insulated car, and something to represent the General
American lease fleet. And that is sorely needed.

Regards,

Jerry Stewart
Chicago, Ill.



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...>
wrote:
Brian Carlson wrote:

Red Caboose currently offers a 10,000 gallon AC&F Welded Tank Car
decorated
for Koppers Coal Tar Chemicals, with KOPX reporting marks and
repaint date
of JA 2-49. Is this car accurate,where can I locate a prototype
photo? I
know Red caboose sometimes freelances their paint schemes. Just
want to
check accuracy before purchasing.
To which Elden Gatwood responded:

All of the photos I have of Koppers cars indicate that this is
PROBABLY a
fantasy scheme, even though I happily use them in lieu of anything
else.
Koppers cars were usually GATC prototypes, usually insulated, and
containing
different general features like safety vents and all.

I have never seen any confirmation as to whether or not there was
a photo of
a welded post-war ACF car of this vintage and size they used to
come up with
the scheme, even though it generally mimics the ones they used,
including
that cool end lettering.
Consider the following evidence:

1. As of 1950, almost all of the Koppers cars were insulated TMIs,
which
obviously cannot be modeled with the RC car; only 15 cars were 10k
gal. TMs.

2. All of those 15 TMs were on the Koppers roster in 1945, before
AC&F
began to build welded ICC-103s.

3. I have 9 ca. 1940s-'50s photos of Koppers tank cars. All are
insulated, most were built before 1928 by the Standard Tank Car
Co., the
others were built by General American.

4. It is a widely known fact that most of the Red Caboose P/L
schemes,
though prototypical on some tank car or other, are bogus on a welded
ICC-103.

Draw your own conclusions.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Yahoo! Groups Links




Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Koppers Coal Tar tank car

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

Jerry,

Even if we could get the cars, decals are not available from any source
at present. Even Champ no longer carries them. They dropped them from
the line along with UTLX because of the difficulty in getting the yellow
inks that are needed to make the decals. The EPA put the kibosh on
certain colors due to the toxicity of the ingredients and the yellow ink
that Champ used fell into this category.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware

switchengines wrote:


Richard Hendrickson, responded to the question on Koppers Coal Tar
tank cars, and this is the same conclusions I had come to examining
many photos of the cars that I had collected over the years. For my
2 cents worth on this subject, item number 3 of Richard's reply hit a
need that has interested me for many years, and is a model I have
felt is both needed, and would make a very intesting car. A Standard
Tank Car Company, 8k, insulated tank car. Or in fact, any Standard
Tank Car Company 8k car, non-insulated or insulated. This very
interesting prototype, seems to have made it into many oil company
fleets, and the major tank car lessors as well.
But back to the Koppers tank cars, what an intersting model this
8k insulated car would make. With the funky heater pipes coming out
the end of the tank body, I can almost smell the coal tar, well
almost!
A model of this intersting group of cars would surely fill a need
for both an insulated car, and something to represent the General
American lease fleet. And that is sorely needed.

Regards,

Jerry Stewart
Chicago, Ill.



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...>
wrote:
Brian Carlson wrote:

Red Caboose currently offers a 10,000 gallon AC&F Welded Tank Car
decorated
for Koppers Coal Tar Chemicals, with KOPX reporting marks and
repaint date
of JA 2-49. Is this car accurate,where can I locate a prototype
photo? I
know Red caboose sometimes freelances their paint schemes. Just
want to
check accuracy before purchasing.
To which Elden Gatwood responded:

All of the photos I have of Koppers cars indicate that this is
PROBABLY a
fantasy scheme, even though I happily use them in lieu of anything
else.
Koppers cars were usually GATC prototypes, usually insulated, and
containing
different general features like safety vents and all.

I have never seen any confirmation as to whether or not there was
a photo of
a welded post-war ACF car of this vintage and size they used to
come up with
the scheme, even though it generally mimics the ones they used,
including
that cool end lettering.
Consider the following evidence:

1. As of 1950, almost all of the Koppers cars were insulated TMIs,
which
obviously cannot be modeled with the RC car; only 15 cars were 10k
gal. TMs.

2. All of those 15 TMs were on the Koppers roster in 1945, before
AC&F
began to build welded ICC-103s.

3. I have 9 ca. 1940s-'50s photos of Koppers tank cars. All are
insulated, most were built before 1928 by the Standard Tank Car
Co., the
others were built by General American.

4. It is a widely known fact that most of the Red Caboose P/L
schemes,
though prototypical on some tank car or other, are bogus on a welded
ICC-103.

Draw your own conclusions.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: NWU H. H. Copeland holdings

Steven Delibert <STEVDEL@...>
 

Was there anything in there on the Ulster & Delaware, independent upstate
New York regional until absorbed by the NYC in 1932?
Thanks
Steve Delibert

----- Original Message -----
From: "etuson" <etuson@yahoo.com>

Several years ago, when I visited NWU to research their H. H.Copeland
holdings, I photocopied the listing of those holdings, compiled by
Ron Glas in 1990. I don't want to scan in the entire list, but if
someone wants to know what is in the collection for a road they are
interested in, I'd be happy to share that portion.


Re: PCC&Stl Rwy.

Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@...>
 

List;

The Pittsburgh, Cincinnati & St. Louis Railway Company was the successor
to a series of railroads that were under the control of the Pennsylvania
Railroad. These lines were: The Panhandle Railway Company, The
Steubenville and Indiana, and the Holliday's Cove Railroad. The
combined company was known colloquially as the "Panhandle."

The Panhandle Railway Company was the original line built between
Pittsburgh and Columbus (with joint operation over the B&O Railroad's
C&N Division between Newark and Columbus Ohio. The Pittsburgh,
Cincinnati, Chicago & St. Louis Railway Company was a combination of the
PC&STL with the Columbus, Chicago & Indiana Central whose major route
linked Columbus with Chicago via Bradford, Indianapolis and Chicago.

To make this short as it is off topic, the line between between
Pittsburgh and Columbus which later became the Panhandle Division, got
it's name because it's route, which went through the narrow neck of West
Virginia, was shaped like a panhandle. This nickname was still in use
up through the abandonment of most of the line by Conrail in the
mid-1980's. The other lines referred to as the "Panhandle" were the
PCC&STL lines which were leased to the PRR west of Columbus. These
lines became known as the "Greater Panhandle."

In the early 1900s, there were a great number of PRR subsidiary
companies whose freight cars were lettered for these lines. A good
listing of these lines can be found in Al Westerfield's PRR kit history
sheets found in his early GL hoppers, XL box cars, and GR gondolas. For
the steam era modeler in the early twentieth century, Al's freight car
kits are just about the last word.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
PH: (302) 738-4292
E-Mail: tmolsen@udel.edu





Justin Kahn wrote:


I believe this was what was known as the "Panhandle."
Jace Kahn
Mostly Fairbanks

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@o...>
wrote:
Guys, help me out here. I have a photo of a Santa Fe tank car at
Indianapolis, IN in 1919 on the P.C.C.& St.L. Rwy., a rail line whose
identity is unknown to me. Can someone tell me what the initials stand
for, and what larger railroad it later became a part of? TIA.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520
Hi Richard, I believe it is the Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Chicago &
St.Louis. It is part of the Pennsylvania. Regards, Don Smith
_________________________________________________________________
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NWU H. H. Copeland holdings

Earl Tuson
 

Hello,

Several years ago, when I visited NWU to research their H. H.Copeland
holdings, I photocopied the listing of those holdings, compiled by
Ron Glas in 1990. I don't want to scan in the entire list, but if
someone wants to know what is in the collection for a road they are
interested in, I'd be happy to share that portion.

For those unfamiliar with the Copeland reports, the H. H. Copeland
Co. compiled and published various freight traffic statistical data
in tabular and map formats- traffic density, traffic interchanged,
etc. It runs from the 20's to the 50's, and by no means is it a
complete collection.

Earl Tuson


Re: North Coast Grit blaster

vyoung5622@...
 

In a message dated 2/21/2004 4:45:27 PM Central Standard Time,
heninger@medicine.nodak.edu writes:
but I am at a loss to figure out how you attach the air supply to the
booth.
I went to a supply house here in Amarillo that carries all kinds of fittings.
I got two or three male quick connect fittings and about the same number of
female fittings. Screw one of the male fittings to the air input on the right
side of the booth as you face the front. Screw one of the female fittings to
your air supply hoses. I added one of the male fittings to my tire filler
and one of the male fittings to my airbrush hose. I just wish I knew the
correct name for all those fittings. Good luck!

Virgil Young
Amarillo, TX
vyoung5622@aol.com


Re: Truck dimensions

Mike Turner <yardcoolieyahoo@...>
 

Although this is definitely off topic for this list, a couple of years ago one of the cad magazines had an ad for some 3d software package and the 3d drawing shown was of a Blomberg truck. I wish I had been smart enought to contact that company to get a copy of that file.

Mike Turner
Simpsonville, SC

Dave Nelson wrote:

Yes but unfortunately for the cad enthusiast only a small number of
dimensions are documented. It'a very hard to find enough information in
those drawings to be able to "re-"draw any of the trucks.
Dave Nelson


Re: HO Reefers For Sale

Jim Scott
 

George,

What are the car numbers on the R-40-10s (All 5).

Thanks,

Jim Scott
Lompoc, CA.
--- "George A. Walls" <H81644@frontiernet.net> wrote:
Hi Folks,
Have a few reefers that I need to clean out. To late
for my time frame.

R-40-10, PFE Express Reefer, Green, $13.00
R-40-10, PFE, Overland Herald, Premium Line, $15.00
ea. Have 4
R-40-23, Swift, Hormal, And M.D.T. Reefers, $12.00
ea.
R-30-18, RTR, Terry Wegmen Kit, Assembled by
Intermountain, Have 2, $24.00
ea.

All items are plus shipping and Ins. Please contact
off list.

Thank You,
George Walls



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