Date   

Re: Freight Car Designations

bhom3@...
 

Dave Nelson wrote:

I have been under the impression that most other RR's did not, but I
can't say I've ever seen a comprehensive list. Perhaps with the
expertise here, such a list can be made. <<SNIP>>


One of the last useful pieces of information I got off FCL was
an "Freight Car Class Finder" MS Excel database compiled by Dave
Soderblom (drs@stsci.edu) inculding cars from ATSF/SFRD, B&O,
CB&Q/FW&D/C&S, NYC System, PFE, PRR, SP/T&NO, and UP.

Dave's not a member of STMFC yet - how about another invite, Mike?
I'd add the database to the files, except for the fact that it would
probably be highly unethcial on my part. I'd prefer that he make the
decision to share his work here...


Ben Hom


Re: Freight Car Designations

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Is there any one (or more) reference sources out there that I could
use to learn more about freight car classes? Example:
I am modeling the late 1940's....SP/T&NO. The SP had box cars
designated B-50-xx, GS gons as G-50-xx, covered hoppers as H-70-xx,
etc. Most other RR's had their own class designations also.
I have been under the impression that most other RR's did not, but I can't
say I've ever seen a comprehensive list. Perhaps with the expertise here,
such a list can be made. Starting with the above....

PRR
SP
TNO
ATSF
UP

I can add:
CBQ
NW
BO
ACL
CCO/CCR

as the only ones that come to my mind. I know there are a few eastern roads
too....

Others anyone?

Dave Nelson


Re: Canadian Freight Cars in The U.S.

Earl Tuson
 

Jeff English wrote:
There are also a few cars carrying "box material", which I
assumed to be the same thing, and several more of "boxes, fiber".
How about "box, shook"; what's that?
Gee, Jeff, that's the stuff the SV shipped via unit train! (One
carload of shook stock comprising an entire train is a unit train,
isn't it?) Really, box shooks, box material, shook stock, etc., are
all thin boards used to make crates and boxes.

For the six and a half weeks I have records for, the Pittsfield Box &
Lumber Company shipped out via the Suncook Valley 13 carloads of box
material, while the Bailey Lumber Company, of Suncook, shipped out 4
carloads. Destinations included: Bellows Falls, VT, Carlisle, PA,
Charlotte, MI, Hartford, CT, Jackson, MI, New York City, Philadelphia,
Pittsburg, Port Morris, NY, Red Bank, NJ, and St. Louis. Loads ranged
from 15 to 26 tons. This represented 17 out of 38 outbound loads for
those 6.5 weeks.

Earl Tuson


Re: Freight Car Designations

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Charles, for SP boxcars try John Nehrich's web site and Railroad Model Craftsman,
Feburary and March 1993. Prior to 1950 there are not a lot of covered hoppers, but
you can model boxcar classes B-50-1/2/6/9/12/13/14/15/16/18/19//20/21/22/23/24/25/
26/27 using commercially available HO scale kits. Also A-50-5/6/14. Kitbashes can
yield even more.

Also try http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/

The SPH&TS sells a complete Pacific Lines roster for 1956 which contains revenue,
MofW and passenger equipment information. Many people here or on FCL have a
lot of knowledge of SP freight cars. There are Yahoo groups for espee and TNO too.

----- Original Message -----
From: <ceth512@earthlink.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 5:36 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Freight Car Designations


Is there any one (or more) reference sources out there that I could
use to learn more about freight car classes? Example:
I am modeling the late 1940's....SP/T&NO. The SP had box cars
designated B-50-xx, GS gons as G-50-xx, covered hoppers as H-70-xx,
etc. Most other RR's had their own class designations also. In
trying to collect only those cars that would be built prior to say
1950, it is difficult to find this info. unless one is a "seasoned"
veteran of this type of knowledge


Re: Freight Car Designations

Benjamin Hom <bhom3@...>
 

Charles Etheridge asked:

"Is there any one (or more) reference sources out there that I could
use to learn more about freight car classes?"

and

"The ORER's don't list this info."

Charles, here's a few off of the top of my head for starters:

There's one prominent exception to ORER listing of car classes - fortunately, the Pennsy listed car classes along with their number series in the ORER listings. Rob Schoenberg's site has an extensive set of PRR equipment diagrams at http://prr.railfan.net/freight/ , and Wayner reprinted a set of PRR Equipment Diagrams that you may be able to find through well-stocked book retailers if you don't have online access..

For Union Pacific frieght cars, Terry Metcalfe's Union Pacific Freight Cars 1936-1951 is the source you want.

Santa Fe boxcars are well covered by Richard Hendrickson (Furniture and Automobile Box Cars) and John Dobyne (Santa Fe Box Cars 1869-1953).


Ben Hom


Freight Car Designations

Charles Etheredge
 

Is there any one (or more) reference sources out there that I could
use to learn more about freight car classes? Example:
I am modeling the late 1940's....SP/T&NO. The SP had box cars
designated B-50-xx, GS gons as G-50-xx, covered hoppers as H-70-xx,
etc. Most other RR's had their own class designations also. In
trying to collect only those cars that would be built prior to say
1950, it is difficult to find this info. unless one is a "seasoned"
veteran of this type of knowledge. The kit manufacturers, for the
most part, aren't much help. The ORER's don't list this info. Any
info that would point me in the right direction would be
appreciated. Thanks
Charles Etheredge


Re: Canadian Freight Cars in The U.S.

thompson@...
 

Jeff English asked:
There are also a few cars carrying "box material", which I
assumed to be the same thing, and several more of "boxes, fiber".
How about "box, shook"; what's that?
That's the stuff in the form of broken-down boxes (i.e. ready to assemble
into wood crates or boxes). Maybe the origin of the phrase, a "shook the
box" freight car??

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 http://www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroads and on Western history


Re: PRR 1950's Trailers

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

The Sparrows Point Division of Eastern Car Works has
recently released a kit of the Pennsylvania trailer
used in "Truk-Train" service in the 1950's.

A) Does anyone here know if these trailers got outside of
Pennsylvania territory in interchange? Any pictures of
these floating around out there somewhere?

B) What about the PRR flat under the trailer? Is it accurate?
Would the flat itself have wandered away from home turf
for any length of time in interchange?
Shawn, just FYI the kit has been out for at least a year if not more.
PRR trailers mostly stayed in home territory, or in the east, during
the 1950's. There was not a lot of interchange of trailers until the
1960's. (An exception might be PRR stuff on the New Haven and
vice versa, and likewise Erie and New Haven. And I know of some
exceptions involving NP and other roads.)

The flat is a PRR F41, General Steel Castings 53'6" flat. I don't know
if any of the F41's were so converted -- go look at Rob Schoenberg's
PRR web site. PRR did own a lot of Bethlehem Steel 75' flatcars (a kit
from Walthers) and had some shorter (53'?) cars of the same style.
All of the Bethlehem PRR TOFC flats ended up under TT ownership
since PRR was a founding partner of TT.

Mont "Monon" Switzer has written several articles about 1950's TOFC
trailers including PRR stuff.


Re: CRDX boxcar photos

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Whatever they are, the ends are not from the same era and both cars look
like they've had a lot of rebuilding done to them. I've no idea what they
were when new.

Dave Nelson


Re: Canadian Freight Cars in The U.S.

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Corrugated paper boxes are fabricated entirely from kraft paper which has come in
large, heavy rolls since at least the early 1960's. Pulpboard sounds like it is used to
make things like cereal or tissue boxes. I suppose it too could be produced in rolls.

Pulpboard definitiion:

http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/don/dt/dt2720.html

----- Original Message -----

However, "pulpboard" is a paper
product, not a "lumber" product. It's often called "corrugating medium,"
ie the stuff cardboard boxes are made of.


PRR 1950's Trailers, Take 3

Shawn Beckert
 

Well, the URL I sent for the PRR trailer picture
won't work for me either now. Try this instead:

http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com

Click on "Our Products", then click on "The Sparrows
Point Product Line". Scroll down to Item SP-12 and
click on that. With any luck the trailer/flatcar pic
should appear. I hope...

Shawn Beckert


Re: PRR 1950's Trailers

Shawn Beckert
 

List,

I meant BETHLEHEM Car Works!

Yeah, I'm awake....


Shawn Beckert


PRR 1950's Trailers

Shawn Beckert
 

List,

The Sparrows Point Division of Eastern Car Works has
recently released a kit of the Pennsylvania trailer
used in "Truk-Train" service in the 1950's. A picture
of the kit can be seen at:

http://www.bethlehemcarworks.com/Sparrows%Pt20Pages/kit%20SP-12.htm

This will probably get chopped up in cyberspace, so you'll
need to type it out again (sorry) but it's worth looking at.
I know nothing of the Pennsy's intermodal service back in
the fifties, so what I'd like to ask is:

A) Does anyone here know if these trailers got outside of
Pennsylvania territory in interchange? Any pictures of
these floating around out there somewhere?

B) What about the PRR flat under the trailer? Is it accurate?
Would the flat itself have wandered away from home turf
for any length of time in interchange?

Thanks for any input, information, education, etc.

Shawn Beckert


Re: Canadian Freight Cars in The U.S.

Jeff English
 

BillJewett@aol.com wrote:

However, "pulpboard" is a paper
product, not a "lumber" product. It's often called "corrugating medium,"
ie the stuff cardboard boxes are made of.
The identity of one of the consignees could indicate otherwise.
The Formica Co. would be making kitchen countertops, wouldn't it?
Would they have a use for cardboard box material? It would seem
unlikely they were making their own boxes. I assumed they were
using particle board.
Most of the other consignees would be consistent with your
identification of "pulpboard" as cardboard.
There are also a few cars carrying "box material", which I
assumed to be the same thing, and several more of "boxes, fiber".
How about "box, shook"; what's that?

---------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff English Troy, New York
Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling
englij@rpi.edu

| R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D |
Route of the Whippet
---------------------------------------------------------------


Re: Canadian Freight Cars in The U.S.

Jeff English
 

"Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@mediaone.net> wrote:

Tim Gilbert reports to me the footnotes for Canadian data include:
"Figures represent carload tonnage handled by class I railways of the
United States that operate mileage in Canada."
Interesting. This would completely eliminate some international
interchange points from these statistics, since they were located exactly
AT the border.
Rouses Point, NY, is located at the border and was an
interchange point between several roads, some of which were
paper subsidiaries for international accounting purposes. D&H -
Napierville Junction is one such pairing, and CN - CV the other, but
the Rutland interchanged with all four of these at RP.


Did the NYC actually operate as
such in Ontario or was it technically a Canadian operation (Canada
Southern?). And who owned/operated the bridge at Niagara Falls?
The Canada Southern survived as a subsidiary into the CR era,
and might even still exist on paper since CR sold CASO to CN and
CP as equal partners (although I think one of them recently sold
out their share to the other, I forget which). In the Niagara Frontier
region, NYC also crossed the border at Black Rock, NY - Fort Erie,
ON (not far from Buffalo). I believe NYC was 100% owner of all
three of the border crossings involving CASO routes. The tunnel at
Detroit/Windsor was a subsidiary called Detroit River Tunnel Co.
The bridge at Niagara Falls is a replacement for, and is located
on the alignment of, the important "Suspension Bridge", built in
1855 by John Roebling (who later desgined the Brooklyn Bridge),
and considered at that time to be the critical link in westward
continental expansion. The differential rates that kept the Rutland
alive were predicated on the Supension Bridge gateway, and
remained in place until the Rutland's abandonment in the early 60s.
NYC also operated two other lines in Canada: one was a line
that crossed the border at Rooseveltown, NY - Cornwall, ON and
extended to Ottawa. For a long time this was a subsidiary called
the Ottawa & New York Ry., but I don't know if it stayed that unitl
abandonment, which I think happened in the late 50s.
The other line, part of which is still operated by CSX, was built
as the Adirondack & St Lawrence RR and used a combination of
proprietary track and trackage rights to reach Montreal. The border
crossing from NY into PQ was in the countryside north of Malone,
NY, and that segment, from Malone to Huntingdon, PQ, was
abandoned in the early 1980s, but that was long after it ceased to
be a through route (ca. 1960). It's last usage was only for serving
local shippers in Malone, and this domestic traffic had to move over
the border twice to reach its destination.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff English Troy, New York
Proto:64 Classic Era Railroad Modeling
englij@rpi.edu

| R U T L A N D R A I L R O A D |
Route of the Whippet
---------------------------------------------------------------


Re: AD&N box

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Here are some links to Rob Schoenberg's PRR site supporting my ID of
this car as an ex-PRR Class X37 boxcar:
Ben, as soon as you said X37, I recognized the car. I am 99.98 3/4 % sure
that you ID'ed it correctly. The X37 didn't look like anything else.


Re: AD&N box

bhom3@...
 

Here are some links to Rob Schoenberg's PRR site supporting my ID of
this car as an ex-PRR Class X37 boxcar:

PRR 65400, Class X37 Boxcar Builder's Photos

http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PRR_65400_X37.jpg&fr=

http://prr.railfan.net/freight/freightphotos.html?
photo=PRR_65400_X37_34view.jpg&fr=

PRR X37 Equipment Diagram:

http://prr.railfan.net/diagrams/PRRdiagrams.html?
diag=x37.gif&sel=box&sz=sm&fr=ge


Ben Hom


Re: Clark's photos

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

John,

I suspect that the S.D. Marty 1954 photo at an unknown location you have
at the URL below is taken in Richmond, probably at the approximate
location as in the 1952 shot that immediately precedes it. Notice the
"Hungerford" name prominently displayed. Both photos were taken in the
vicinity of the Richmond Union Station, not far from the famous "Triple
Decker" bridge. The area is known as "Shockoe Bottom", or something like
that. I have explored here, but most of this stuff is gone, gone, gone.
Today the old buildings are getting trendy gentrification as lofts,
artist studios and boutiques.

http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Propst's-photos/co5011-5405-sdm.jpg

I will scan up a photo of the SN gondola this weekend and post for you
to copy on Monday (hopefully). I obtained a Will Whittaker negative that
is less contrasty than Bob Campbell's print, though the car is a bit
more banged up.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Re: Canadian Freight Cars in The U.S.

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor [mailto:timoconnor@mediaone.net]
Tim Gilbert reports to me the footnotes for Canadian data
include: "Figures
represent carload tonnage handled by class I railways of the
United States that operate mileage in Canada."

Interesting. This would completely eliminate some international
interchange points from these statistics, since they were located exactly
AT
the border.
Unless the ICC regarded such situations as tonnage originating within that
state (e.g., perhaps everything received by the SI was recorded as
originating in Washington, not Canada). I really don't know.

Dave Nelson.


Re: AD&N box

John Nehrich <nehrij@...>
 

Tim - At first I noticed the rivet pattern, but then thought it looked
peculiar because of the weathering, not anything with the rivets themselves.
But you are right, the top part seems to have closely spaced "normal"
rivets, and then below, alternate lines have only half the number. (They
used a different "pounce" wheel.) It seems there is a seam only every other
set of rivets.
I was writing the captions sort of on the fly, as I wanted to get all
the pictures posted and go home. The door looks a little wider than 6 feet
too, have to get out an ORER. - John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
To: <stmfc@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 1:24 AM
Subject: [STMFC] AD&N box



John thinks this is a 1937 [sic] AAR boxcar, but the more I look
the weirder it gets -- the roof appears to be flat for example. But
more interesting is the rivet/panel pattern on the sides -- they seem
to be irregular, more like a 1923 ARA than the 1940 AAR.

http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/images/rolling-stock/Propst's-photos/ri-ad
n1474-7009-sdm.jpg

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Sterling, Massachusetts



To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
STMFC-unsubscribe@egroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

187041 - 187060 of 189881