Date   

Re: Solid "Stock Trains" - When did they stop?

Richard Hendrickson
 

Shawn Beckert asks:

So what's a good date for the elimination of solid trains
of stock cars - the late 1950's?
Solid stock trains weren't common at any time except on such RRs as the SP,
UP and Santa Fe that had very heavy stock traffic at certain seasons of the
year. Blocks of stock cars, almost always at the head end of trains
(unless they were empties being returned to their point of origin) and
often at the head end of perishable blocks, were much more common, and
remained so through the 1950s. though stock traffic declined gradually on
the western RRs in the late 1950s, it wasn't until the '60s that the
traffic shifted on a large scale from rails to highways, as demonstrated by
the size of the stock car fleets that RRs like the ATSF, SP, UP, NP, and GN
continued to maintain.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Accurail AAR 70-ton triple hopper with off-set sides (70-ton trucks)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
In HO scale the differences between 50 ton and 70 ton trucks are very
subtle - slightly larger journal boxes and slightly beefier sections
through the trusses - and most HO trucks are slightly oversize anyway. So
I'm not sure how reliably anyone can differentiate between models of 50 ton
and 70 ton trucks.
This depends on the individual truck. Many of the earlier 70-ton trucks had spring groups arranged so there were three springs lined up across the outer edge of the spring opening in the sideframe, something not true of any 50-ton truck I know of. If you look at the pages for the "Board of Trustees under the Four Wheel Railway Truck Agreement" in a Cyc, you will see that these spring groups were recommended to be that way, though not every manufacturer complied.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Intermountain's new Santa Fe stockcar

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

they're doing the Sk-Q through Sk-U class cars built by the Pennsylvania
Car Co. om 1928-'30, because with most of the same tooling they can produce
both single deck and double deck cars<
I can't wait. Faster, faster<VBG>. Of course not really good for
Martin as he does these cars.
On a side note Richard could you email me privately on the mixture for
tarpon gray. Big discussion on another list and information BLI might care
about.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: 70-ton trucks (was: Accurail AAR 70-ton triple...)

Scott Pitzer
 

When I started the thread about "anonymous" HO trucks it was because I had found some that looked bulky enough to be believable under a Bowser 70-ton covered hopper*. Among the choices were old trucks that were oversize but poorly-detailed. I eventually found some that I liked (which I want to keep in mind for 70-ton gondolas) but I haven't tracked down which anonymous brand they are.

*Obviously those Pennsy (or ARA Type "Y") trucks in the kit box had to go!

Scott Pitzer


Solid "Stock Trains" - When did they stop?

Shawn Beckert
 

List,

At what point in time did the railroads stop running solid
trains of stock cars? I gather that the Union Pacific ran
their stock trains into Los Angeles as late as the 1960's,
but photos of other railroads in this period seem to show
that moving animals by rail in solid trains or "blocks" was
tapering off by then. Photos of Southern Pacific trains from
this era reveal just a few stock cars in consists, mostly at
the head end of the train.

So what's a good date for the elimination of solid trains
of stock cars - the late 1950's?

Thanks,

Shawn Beckert


Re: Accurail AAR 70-ton triple hopper with off-set sides (70-ton trucks)

Richard Hendrickson
 

From Bob Witt:

Kathe Robin wrote:
Both Accurail's "Bettendorf" and Andrews trucks ARE 70 ton trucks.<
Really? It seems many (including Accurail or Inaccurail) have used
them under cars only requiring 50-ton trucks. Richard, any comments?
In HO scale the differences between 50 ton and 70 ton trucks are very
subtle - slightly larger journal boxes and slightly beefier sections
through the trusses - and most HO trucks are slightly oversize anyway. So
I'm not sure how reliably anyone can differentiate between models of 50 ton
and 70 ton trucks. I routinely used both Accurail trucks to represent 50
ton prototypes, and they look okay to me. In the case of Andrews trucks,
the most widely used 70 ton versions were the Pennsy's "Crown" trucks,
which were distinctive both because their sideframes were massive looking
and because they had a somewhat different configuration from the USRA
Andrews trucks, and the Accurail Andrews trucks certainly don't resemble
them. On the whole, I regard 50 ton vs. 70 ton trucks to be a non-issue in
HO scale. YMMV.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Intermountain's new Santa Fe stockcar

Richard Hendrickson
 

I talked at length with them at the N Scale convention in Houston last
year where I did my stock car clinic. I had no idea they would really do
it. Wonderful!! ATSF has the largest fleet of stock cars, and their
SK-2/3 cars outnumbered the entire fleets of most railroads. I assume it
is the 2/3 that Intermountain is doing.
No, Steve, they're doing the Sk-Q through Sk-U class cars built by the
Pennsylvania Car Co. om 1928-'30, because with most of the same tooling
they can produce both single deck and double deck cars. This will, of
course, be good news to modelers like Jon Miller whose era is earler than
the Sk-2 class box car rebuilds. And, of course, we have excellent Sk-2
and Sk-3 class kits in HO scale from Al Westerfield.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: SP F-70-7 in RMC

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Brian J Carlson wrote:
For those of us that model the east, did these cars get over here? What type of loads would be common. I am always looking for more interesting flat cars.
Western lumber moved nationwide on these cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Intermountain's new Santa Fe stockcar

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Today, however, most of those "kits" will be sent to China for assembly:-(.
I'd bet the increased assembly cost for a flat kit is much less than the
savings of a flat vs sides-ends-roof mold.<
Interesting thought Jeff. I believe you are right in the fact that the
box mold was produced with the assembler (in US) in mind. But the fact that
the cars are now assembled (etc.) in China and shipped back shouldn't matter
much in cost, especially what would be saved in the mold (I'm, assuming a
large saving in mold making). We kit builders (those that are left) would
be perfectly happy with a flat molded kit, assuming it is good. It's
possible the tare from additional difficult assembly in China might negate
savings!

Dennis might be able to wade in here with cost factors between flat and
box molds. Don't need actually figures, percents will do. I assume
Accurail has looked at this concept!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Brake appliances on PMcK&Y USRA rebuilds, circa 1935 revisited

Dana and Larry Kline <klinelarrydanajon@...>
 

The University of Pittsburgh library at
http://images.library.pitt.edu/cgi-bin/i/image/image-idx
has three photos of 83400, Lot 630-B. 1) the 3 qtr view in the cyclopedias,
2) a roof shot and 3) a side view. The side view clearly shows K brake
gear. Unfortunately, these photos are not on line as far as I can tell.

There is an in-service photo of P&LE 83759, Lot 638-B from the Bob Lorenz
collection. The photo date is 1949. The photo is included in Richard
Hendrickson's Rail Model Journal, July 1993, p5. This photo shows AB brake
gear. Bobs Photo has an in-service photo of P&LE 83821, Lot 638-B. The
photo date is 7-24-57. This photo also shows AB brake gear.

There is a photo article about these cars in Mainline Modeler, July 1988,
pp54-55. Bob Hundmann is listed as the author, but the nine photos were
taken at College, PA by Robert W. Smith. These photos show two of these
cars in use as storage sheds. The photos are undated, but most of these cars
were retired by the mid-fifties. I photographed these cars in the early
1980s. The side view on p54 shows AB brakes on one of the cars.

I don't know of any other photos of these cars. The photos of 83400 show an
11-34 built date, but the NYC 1942 diagram book shows a built date of 1935
for Lot 630-B, cars 83400-83499. The other two cars are from Lot 638-B,
cars 83500-83891. Perhaps the Lot 638-B cars were equipped with
AB brakes when they were rebuilt.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: Intermountain's new Santa Fe stockcar

jaley <jaley@...>
 

On Mar 8, 9:07pm, Andy Carlson wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] Intermountain's new Santa Fe stockcar
Was anyone else as impressed with the test shots of
Intermountain's forthcoming Santa Fe Stock Car as I
was? Not being familiar with the protoype, I
concentrated on the execution of detail, which I
thought well done. I was also (pleasantly) surprised
to see the parts molded as a "flat kit". Though
normally flat parts allow for a cheaper production (no
side movable slides= cheaper mold base) these parts
are cored on the side edges for detail parts and
interlocking pieces. That, of course, requires a
multiple slide mold.

Hmmm. Andy brings to mind an interesting topic: why don't more mfrs
produce flat-molded kits? It seems that doing so would be cheaper for
them.

In the past, the reason was that most modelers are afraid of flat kits --
too difficult (and therefore, there would be no sales).

Today, however, most of those "kits" will be sent to China for assembly
:-(. I'd bet the increased assembly cost for a flat kit is much less than
the savings of a flat vs sides-ends-roof mold.

The good news would be that, assuming the mfrs also offer a handful of the
cars as kits (instead of RTR), we'd have a bunch more plastic kits
available because tooling costs would be much lower.

Thoughts?


Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Intermountain's new Santa Fe stockcar

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Sorry,
I overlooked that, didn't I!

The shots were on display at Martin Lofton's Monrovia,
CA "Prototype Modelers" one day affair. They (IM) also
showed some kind of Tank Car from the 80'S, I would
guess, that would be of little interest to most of us
on this list.
-Andy Carlson<
Well, it depends. Will they be available at Martin's Pleasanton
affair<VBG>?


Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS.


Re: Decal HELP!!

JK <kuban@...>
 

Bill,

I don't know if this will help, but I have the remains of the set I used for
my NWSL car.
In comparing this with the posted photo, however, it does not match. What I
have is the complete " Jones & Laughlin Steel Corporation" spelled out with
larger J&LSC size lettering. There are two sets of this with J&L logos. It
appears that you would have to re-do the complete corporate name on the
car - if that is correct.
Still, I have the decals and you are welcome to them, if you can figure out
how to make them work for this project. According to the envelope, these
decals were made by Champ for NWSL and may or not be the remains of the
HT-185 set.

Jim Kubanick,
Morgantown, WV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Lane" <billlane@...>
To: "C & O Group" <ChesapeakeOhioRailway@...>; "B & O List"
<Baltimore_and_Ohio@...>; "Brass Collectors"
<brasscollectors@...>; "C & O Group"
<ChesapeakeOhioRailway@...>; "PRR Fax" <PRR@...>;
"PRR Modeling" <PRR-Modeling@...>; "PRR Talk"
<PRR-Talk@...>; "S Scale List" <S-Scale@...>; "Steam Era
Freight cars" <STMFC@...>; "Weathering Trains"
<weathering@...>
Cc: "NYC list" <NYC-Railroad@...>
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:13 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Decal HELP!!


Hi All,

I was done decaling an HO Jones and Laughlin car. I wipe the decals down
to
clean off the glue residue around the edges when I had a problem. A
section
of the decal was removed and is unusable.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/HO_JL.jpg I only had 1 set to do
this
car. I need the JONE only as in the photo. Please reply even if you have
a
partial set of Champ HO J&L set HT-185.

I have already tried Champ to no avail. This must be an extremely rare
decal
set to find, as a friend who has been painting HO full time for years does
not even have a set. I may have to use a Microscale gothic lettering set,
but the selection of sizes is just under or just over the perfect height
if
the real decal set.

My customer went to great lengths to detail this car out. I want to make
the
car as perfect as possible.

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Custom Brass Painting
http://www.lanestrains.com

Importing a Brass X29 in S Scale
http://www.pennsysmodels.com

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957






Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: Intermountain's new Production

Andrew S. Miller <asmiller@...>
 

Is this new ATSF stock car HO or N (or something else)?

regards,
Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Gilbert [mailto:tgilbert@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:01 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Intermountain's new Production


Andy Carlson wrote:

Sorry,
I overlooked that, didn't I!

The shots (of a AT&SF Stock Car) were on display at Martin Lofton's
Monrovia,
CA "Prototype Modelers" one day affair. They (IM) also
showed some kind of Tank Car from the 80'S, I would
guess, that would be of little interest to most of us
on this list.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
Its probably off topic for this list, but Intermountain at the February
7th-8th Springfield MA Show displayed RTR versions of Train Station's
AT&SF High Level Passenger Cars. No idea of when they will arrive. I
don't recall a Stock Car, but a 1980's era Tank Car was also shown.

Tim Gilbert



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Re: Intermountain's new Production

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Andy Carlson wrote:

Sorry,
I overlooked that, didn't I!

The shots (of a AT&SF Stock Car) were on display at Martin Lofton's Monrovia,
CA "Prototype Modelers" one day affair. They (IM) also
showed some kind of Tank Car from the 80'S, I would
guess, that would be of little interest to most of us
on this list.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
Its probably off topic for this list, but Intermountain at the February 7th-8th Springfield MA Show displayed RTR versions of Train Station's AT&SF High Level Passenger Cars. No idea of when they will arrive. I don't recall a Stock Car, but a 1980's era Tank Car was also shown.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Intermountain's new Santa Fe stockcar

Andy Carlson
 

Sorry,
I overlooked that, didn't I!

The shots were on display at Martin Lofton's Monrovia,
CA "Prototype Modelers" one day affair. They (IM) also
showed some kind of Tank Car from the 80'S, I would
guess, that would be of little interest to most of us
on this list.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- Jon Miller <atsf@...> wrote:

Where did you see the test shots?????? I've never
heard of this car.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS




Yahoo! Groups Links


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Re: Intermountain's new Santa Fe stockcar

Steve Sandifer <jssand@...>
 

I talked at length with them at the N Scale convention in Houston last year where I did my stock car clinic. I had no idea they would really do it. Wonderful!! ATSF has the largest fleet of stock cars, and their SK-2/3 cars outnumbered the entire fleets of most railroads. I assume it is the 2/3 that Intermountain is doing.

--------------------
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Dr., Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417
Personal: http://users2.ev1.net/~jssand/index.htm
Church: http://www.swcentral.org
Railway: http://www.trainweb.org/jssand
Webmaster: http://www.ATSFRR.net

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Carlson
To: Steam Era
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 11:07 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Intermountain's new Santa Fe stockcar


Was anyone else as impressed with the test shots of
Intermountain's forthcoming Santa Fe Stock Car as I
was? Not being familiar with the protoype, I
concentrated on the execution of detail, which I
thought well done. I was also (pleasantly) surprised
to see the parts molded as a "flat kit". Though
normally flat parts allow for a cheaper production (no
side movable slides= cheaper mold base) these parts
are cored on the side edges for detail parts and
interlocking pieces. That, of course, requires a
multiple slide mold.

Would like to hear what other's impressions may be.
Regards to all,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


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Decal HELP!!

Bill Lane <billlane@...>
 

Hi All,

I was done decaling an HO Jones and Laughlin car. I wipe the decals down to
clean off the glue residue around the edges when I had a problem. A section
of the decal was removed and is unusable.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/billlane/HO_JL.jpg I only had 1 set to do this
car. I need the JONE only as in the photo. Please reply even if you have a
partial set of Champ HO J&L set HT-185.

I have already tried Champ to no avail. This must be an extremely rare decal
set to find, as a friend who has been painting HO full time for years does
not even have a set. I may have to use a Microscale gothic lettering set,
but the selection of sizes is just under or just over the perfect height if
the real decal set.

My customer went to great lengths to detail this car out. I want to make the
car as perfect as possible.

Thank You,
Bill Lane

Custom Brass Painting
http://www.lanestrains.com

Importing a Brass X29 in S Scale
http://www.pennsysmodels.com

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy in S Scale in 1957


Re: SP F-70-7 in RMC

Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Brian Carlson asked:
"For those of us that model the east, did these cars get over here?"
Yes.

"What type of loads would be common."
Lumber


Ben Hom


Re: Brake appliances on PMcK&Y USRA rebuilds, circa 1935 revisited

Benjamin Frank Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Greg Martin wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't Jeff Koeller do an article on this car while he was the editor of Mainline (or perhaps earlier) I have a photo copy of the article somewhere as it was an issue I missed. I know there were several good photos of the car later in life ...


It's not listed in Jeff's bibliography on the Model Train Magazine Index:
http://index.mrmag.com

I have articles on these cars by Martin Lofton and Richard Hendrickson but not Jeff. Could you pull the your copy of the article?


Ben Hom

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