Date   

Frisco 34 & 36 FT. Boxcars

h81644 <H81644@...>
 

I am trying to locate pictures, diagrams, information on Frisco's 34
and 36 ft. boxcars. They were still on the OERE in 1930. does one
know who the manufacture was? And can anyone recommend a kit that
might be a basis for building these boxacrs?

Thanks,
George


Re: F&C Web Page is being created and other information

ELDEN GATWOOD <ELDEN.GATWOOD@...>
 

Thanks, Jeff!

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lodge [mailto:cvfanbratt@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:07 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] F&C Web Page is being created and other information

Sharon is their photographer. One thing they don't have time to do is go
back and build some of their older kits. Too busy making new ones. If
someone has done a good job of building a kit that they don't have a picture
of, Sharon has had the modeller ship the model to her, she takes the photos
and ships the model back. (They wnat to have all the photos look very
similar with the same background.) Some free kit(s) are given in exchange
for your time and effort and I believe your shipping costs are refunded for
the shipping.

An letter or email note to Sharon will get you more info.

Funaro & Camerlengo
R. D. #3 Box 2800
Honesdale, PA 18431

Email:
fandc@...

Jeff Lodge

ELDEN GATWOOD <ELDEN.GATWOOD@...> wrote:
Jeff;
Do they want photos of their kits sent to them at some point, or are they OK
in that department?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lodge [mailto:cvfanbratt@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 5:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] F&C Web Page is being created and other information


F & C will release a web page that will include photos of all the kits they
have photos of. (Many of their kits are lacking photos, they will be
looking for finished kits as models in their web page...) I have been
pressing for them to do this for a while, in fact, I created the web page
for them. They are reviewing the first "batch" for accuracy now.

The F&C instructions are pitiful. As I build their kits, I will am taking
notes and making little drawings to make future kits of the same type easier
to build. If I can't figure it out, I will find out from Steve or Sharon
directly how to build the kit. I will work with Sharon and Steve to help
them produce better instructions. I'll forward any input from other
modelers with my materials. I am willing to do this work for free since it
helps advance the hobby and like someone else said - it's fun. I don't
think any of the resin guys can brag about their huge bank accounts. It's a
high labor, low profit job.

Steve will replace any part that is damaged out of your kit for free. Just
tell him what is messed up. Based on conversations with him recently, I
think he has found some unique ways to help stiffen his molds to minimize
the warpage. I have found no warpage in any of my recent kits from him.

While at the Springfield, MA show in February, several people were supplying
Steve with information on different projects. I just don't know when he
finds the time to attempt to make new masters. I don't envy the F&C
lifestyle. They spend all of their time either on the road at shows or
making kits in preparation for the next show. I imagine the same holds true
for the folks at Westerfield and Sunshine.

As a Central Vermont modeller, I am tickled pink that F&C is around. How
many other roads have over 90% of their steam era freight cars available as
affordable resin models? (CV boxes, CV Autoboxes, CV cabeese (both
versions), CV milk car) add the CN boxes, B&M boxes and other northeastern
road kits and they can supply a huge percentage of my roster.

I do have one of the Canadian National covered hopper kits from F&C and
quite frankly am scared to tackle it after looking at the instructions.

Jeff Lodge






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Re: Resin Casting differences - Hey, Tom

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Brian Chapman wrote:
[Sections of Brian's message shuffled around for conciseness.]

Our new startup company is now making rubber urethane molds and
platinum silicone molds, for the first time.
The Question - What type of new molds do you bake, all of them?
Or, just platinum silicone, or just urethane?
Silicones Inc. GI-1000 is our workhorse production silicone rubber,
and all GI-1000 molds are baked. We only use platinum silicone molds
for casting flexible urethane parts, and those molds don't need
baking. We don't use urethane for molds, so I can't comment on that.
Platinum silicone has much lower mold shrinkage than tin silicones
like GI-1000, but much shorter mold life with our principal rigid
casting resins. Like maybe 10 to 12 pours vs. 40 to 60. There is one
exception - Alumilite does very nicely in platinum molds, probably
because it is liquid in the mold for such a short time. But fast
curing urethanes have much higher shrinkage that slower ones, and
you may need special equipment to handle the better ones.

Anything further on this can be directed to me personally at
tgmadden <at> worldnet <dot> att <dot> net.

Hard for me to imagine a product leaving a manufacturer's
business site without inspection of the product shipped. Am I
naive, thinking this should be done without question?
(See, many of us want to do the very best job that we can!)
No, you're not naive, and good for you if you do it.

Tom Madden


Re: Resin Casting differences - Hey, Tom

Brian Chapman <cornbeltroute@...>
 

A new mold will outgas for several days. . . . We bake all of our
new molds for 6 hours at 150F before putting them into production <

Tom, hi,

Our new startup company is now making rubber urethane molds and
platinum silicone molds, for the first time. It's been an experience.

I'm posting here, to the list, hoping that a point I wish to make,
and a question I'd like to pose to you, might prove informative to my
fellow list members.

The Point - Hard for me to imagine a product leaving a manufacturer's
business site without inspection of the product shipped. Am I naive,
thinking this should be done without question?

The Question - What type of new molds do you bake, all of them? Or,
just platinum silicone, or just urethane? I'm using Polytek 74-20
urethane for Hydrocal and urethane plastic castings, and Polytek 73-
45 plat silicone for urethane plastic castings. We vacuum degas, and
we pressure cast when necessary. I read the Casting list religiously,
but I don't recall messages calling for your baking method. I'd like
to try it. (See, many of us want to do the very best job that we can!)

Thanks much,

Brian

Brian Chapman
Granger Roads
Cedar Rapids, Iowa


---


Re: Resin Casting differences

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Andy "Earnest Modeler" Carlson wrote:
Molds go bad when they lose the silicones in the
surface structure, and the RTV gets microscopic
"teeth" which the liquid resin bonds to. When this
happens, chunks of RTV are ripped off from the mold.
No one pours another fill once this happens, the mold
is toast. Prior to this last violent ending, the parts
are fine. It may seem logical that early shots are
better than later shots in detail, but I tell you,
that t'aint so. I challenge anyone to distinguish a
"muddy" part from a near-end-of-life mold against a
part cast from a virgin mold.

Since I have not seen what Jeff and Paul have
reported, I can not explain this difference.
The best one on this list to explain all of this is
Tom Madden, and this will be my last comment on the
subject. (Please hold the applause).
Rising to the bait.....

Silicone rubber molds dry out with use. This doesn't cause any
particular loss of detail, but it does de-gloss the surface. So
castings from early in a mold's life *look* better than later ones,
but it's just a difference in surface finish which disappears under
paint.

As a mold dries out, it gradually loses resiliency and eventually
will crack and tear from the stretching and tugging involved in de-
molding castings. Game over. In severe cases, small pieces of the
mold can come away with the casting because the force attaching the
rubber to the casting is greater than the cohesive strength of the
dried-out rubber. This is just a mechanical attachment and is
different from a casting chemically bonding to the mold. In this
latter case you can actually tear huge chunks out of even a
relatively new mold, and in my experience it has only three causes:
a bad batch of silicone rubber, using cheap silicone rubber, or an
improper mix ratio when the mold was made. This assumes the use of
tin-catalyzed silicone rubber - platinum-catalyzed silicones have
short mold life with conventional rigid urethanes.

What Paul describes sounds more like a problem with the castings. A
casting has to be completely cured before it is removed from the
mold. If a casting loses contact with the mold surface while it is
even slightly "gooey", the surface of the casting will start to
level out. This will round off the hard edges of any surface feature
and impart a gloss to any "lost contact" areas. What can cause lost
contact? (Can you hear me, Major Tom?) 1. A new mold will outgas for
several days, and the force of this outgassing is sufficient to push
the first casting or two away from the mold surface while it is
curing. We bake all of our new molds for 6 hours at 150F before
putting them into production, just to eliminate outassing. 2. A high-
shrink casting resin can pull away from the mold as it cures and
shrinks. 3. The caster can remove the part from the mold too soon,
which can also cause significant dimensional problems as the casting
stretches during removal.

In reading through what I've just written, I realize you could have
the same "leveling" problenm if you remove the master from the mold
too soon. In that case it would be the mold that wasn't completely
cured, and all castings made from it would have poorly-defined
surface features.

If I had to guess, I'd go with the casting being removed from the
mold too soon.

Tom Madden

Points awarded for recognizing the "Major Tom" reference


Re: F&C Sealy Hoppers

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

BTW I think they are actually "Seley" hoppers, despite the spelling on
the box.
Correct, named for Charles Seley who designed the original version in
1901 (or perhaps late 1900) during his tenure at N&W.

David Thompson


Re: Resin Casting differences

Andy Carlson
 

Jeff, not wanting to be argumentive (well....maybe!) I
am going to take issue with some of what you have
stated.

Molds go bad when they loose the silicones in the
surface structure, and the RTV gets microscopic
"teeth" which the liquid resin bonds to. When this
happens, chunks of RTV are ripped off from the mold.
No one pours another fill once this happens, the mold
is toast. Prior to this last violent ending, the parts
are fine. It may seem logical that early shots are
better than later shots in detail, but I tell you,
that t'aint so. I challenge anyone to distinguish a
"muddy" part from a near-end-of-life mold against a
part cast from a virgin mold.

Since I have not seen what Jeff and Paul have
reported, I can not explain this difference.
The best one on this list to explain all of this is
Tom Madden, and this will be my last comment on the
subject. (Please hold the applause).

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- Jeff Lodge <cvfanbratt@...> wrote:

The rubber molds made from the "master" only last
for so many resin castings before they wear out.
(Pulling the hardened resin pieces out of the rubber
does gradually damage and distort the mold. Finer
details will become "muddy".) For a kit that has a
large production run, new rubber molds have to be
made again and again. Logically, those casting made
near the beginning of the mold life are going to be
sharper than those near the end.

Jeff Lodge


Re: F&C Web Page is being created and other information

Jeff Lodge <cvfanbratt@...>
 

Sharon is their photographer. One thing they don't have time to do is go back and build some of their older kits. Too busy making new ones. If someone has done a good job of building a kit that they don't have a picture of, Sharon has had the modeller ship the model to her, she takes the photos and ships the model back. (They wnat to have all the photos look very similar with the same background.) Some free kit(s) are given in exchange for your time and effort and I believe your shipping costs are refunded for the shipping.

An letter or email note to Sharon will get you more info.

Funaro & Camerlengo
R. D. #3 Box 2800
Honesdale, PA 18431

Email:
fandc@...

Jeff Lodge

ELDEN GATWOOD <ELDEN.GATWOOD@...> wrote:
Jeff;
Do they want photos of their kits sent to them at some point, or are they OK
in that department?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Lodge [mailto:cvfanbratt@...]
Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 5:17 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] F&C Web Page is being created and other information


F & C will release a web page that will include photos of all the kits they
have photos of. (Many of their kits are lacking photos, they will be
looking for finished kits as models in their web page...) I have been
pressing for them to do this for a while, in fact, I created the web page
for them. They are reviewing the first "batch" for accuracy now.

The F&C instructions are pitiful. As I build their kits, I will am taking
notes and making little drawings to make future kits of the same type easier
to build. If I can't figure it out, I will find out from Steve or Sharon
directly how to build the kit. I will work with Sharon and Steve to help
them produce better instructions. I'll forward any input from other
modelers with my materials. I am willing to do this work for free since it
helps advance the hobby and like someone else said - it's fun. I don't
think any of the resin guys can brag about their huge bank accounts. It's a
high labor, low profit job.

Steve will replace any part that is damaged out of your kit for free. Just
tell him what is messed up. Based on conversations with him recently, I
think he has found some unique ways to help stiffen his molds to minimize
the warpage. I have found no warpage in any of my recent kits from him.

While at the Springfield, MA show in February, several people were supplying
Steve with information on different projects. I just don't know when he
finds the time to attempt to make new masters. I don't envy the F&C
lifestyle. They spend all of their time either on the road at shows or
making kits in preparation for the next show. I imagine the same holds true
for the folks at Westerfield and Sunshine.

As a Central Vermont modeller, I am tickled pink that F&C is around. How
many other roads have over 90% of their steam era freight cars available as
affordable resin models? (CV boxes, CV Autoboxes, CV cabeese (both
versions), CV milk car) add the CN boxes, B&M boxes and other northeastern
road kits and they can supply a huge percentage of my roster.

I do have one of the Canadian National covered hopper kits from F&C and
quite frankly am scared to tackle it after looking at the instructions.

Jeff Lodge






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Re: Silk Trains?

stde32a <rwboehm@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "skunkskunk2001" <fwj@m...> wrote:
In researching a series of articles for the Wabash Railroad
Historical Society I find numerous references in the local
newspaper railroad section to special "Silk Trains" run from Chicago
to Detroit and onto Buffalo in the 1920's and 1930's.

Sorry for the late response on this subject but here are a few sites
with further information on Silk Trains.

http://railwaymuseum.ab.ca/cnrpass.html
http://www.nlc-bnc.ca/trains/kids/h32-4030-e.html
http://www.hawaii.edu/hga/GAW97/silkroad.html - I believe this site
provides the most accurate historical information with regards to the
special care required.

http://www.webfamilytree.com/great_northern_railroad1.htm
http://www.historylink.org/ohd_output.CFM?file_ID=21

RUss


Re: F&C Sealy Hoppers

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

Well this is interesting. BTW I think they are actually "Seley" hoppers,
despite the spelling on the box

Maybe I expect less from resin, having fought with some real bears in
the past, but I didn't think any one of those problems was something you
wouldn't expect to deal with in a limited run kit. Fit is always going
to be a problem - remember the rubber moulds are flexible and resin
doesn't have a perfectly predictable rate of shrinkage when curing. Even
some of Al Westerfield's kits need floors roofs and sides adjusting to
length.

I hope the following comments aren't entirely superfluous

I wanted to run the hoppers empty, but wasn't able to scribe in
acceptable detail on the wooden sides. Does anyone have a good
technique for doing so?<<

Scriber, square and straight edge is the only way. After you've trimmed
the castings, mark out the planks with a pencil - it's easier to erase a
pencil mark than unscribe the resin when you're laying out the sides.
Then scribe along your pencil lines: it helps if you get one of the
scribers that cuts a curl of material out of the slot rather than one
that just ploughs the surface. If you slip, goof or change your mind the
grooves can be filled with thick CA glue, given a squirt of accelerator
and sanded flat when it has cured; you could probably use bondo or
other concoctions but CA is quicker.

It pays to distress the insides a little bit with a saw blade or coarse
sand paper dragged along some of the planks and a bit of freehand
scribing to add a few splits and shakes - if you have ever seen the
inside of anything that has been used to dump coal then you'll be aware
just how thoroughly battered such things get

>>The worst aspect to me was
that the slope sheets did not butt up against the sides well. There
were big gaps between the castings, <<

Don't try to fill the gap with the slope sheets in place, but add a
strip of styrene to the casting before you glue it in place. Then file
down the edges flat and square until the part just fits between the
sides

Aidrian


Re: Resin Casting differences

Jeff Lodge <cvfanbratt@...>
 

The rubber molds made from the "master" only last for so many resin castings before they wear out. (Pulling the hardened resin pieces out of the rubber does gradually damage and distort the mold. Finer details will become "muddy".) For a kit that has a large production run, new rubber molds have to be made again and again. Logically, those casting made near the beginning of the mold life are going to be sharper than those near the end.

Jeff Lodge

Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
Paul, I have no answer to your question, for I have
never encountered castings as you have described.
Perhaps others on this list with greater knowledge
than I can respond.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- cobrapsl@... wrote:

please tell me why the detail definition is not
consistent. I have seen and
owned several of the same kits where the detail
looks great on one set of
castings and absolutely sucks on another.

---------------------------------
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Re: Returned mail: User unknown

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Mar 24, 2004, at 12:44 PM, KACHINainc@... wrote:


In a message dated 3/23/04 2:28:51 PM, champ@... writes:

<< champ@... >>

Is this no longer the e-masil address for Champ Decals?
I think they've infected themselves with a virus. I have received a couple of these emails from them and others in the past few days that have been infected emails.

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Re: Arrival dates of C&IM Mather box cars

Rob Adams
 

Richard;

Thanks! You are right about the photo. I typed my original message from the office and didn't have access to my magazine references. For some reason, my recollection was of that photo being in the February 1991 issue of RMC, which contains an article by Martin Lofton with several photos, and Chuck Yungkurth drawings of the much different AC&Y 3000-series Mather cars. I also have the August 2003 RMJ , which has your article and the photo I initially referenced. I hate these dilemmas...For a layout set in mid-1936, I can almost talk myself into making the stretch. In the absence of photographic contradiction, a scheme documented in October, 1937 may be safe. Especially since it is a distinctive paint scheme.

As always, I appreciate your assistance. Thanks again.

Best regards, Rob Adams

Richard Hendrickson wrote:


My 7/33 ORER shows 200 Mather box cars in the CIM 8000-8199 series, and
they're also listed in Al Westerfield's 7/35 ORER on CD. How they were
painted at that time is anybody's guess - I've never seen a photo of one
from earlier than the 9/38 photo that was published in RMJ (NOT RMC). In
1933 they would almost certainly have had channel end sills, KC air brakes,
vertical staff hand brakes, and Mather Andrews trucks. The P2K model is
dimensionally correct and could be back-dated fairly easily, but paint
color is a dilemma. The car in the 9/38 photo had a 10/37 reweight date,
however, and was presumably repainted yellow at that time.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520



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Re: Magnification aid

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Ted,
While not easy to store I use common magnification glasses. I have a
range from 1.25 to 3.75. Never have found a 4.0. While bulky they are
cheap ranging from 1 to 3 dollars (look for sales).

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Modeling a Well Used Gon

jaley <jaley@...>
 

On Mar 23, 9:45am, ELDEN GATWOOD wrote:
I am experimenting right now with "tromp
l'oeil" (sp?) to see if I can fool myself into believing that it is
actually
dented and all without doing it for real. I spent a weekend using
watercolor pencils to simulate that horseshoe-shaped bulging that abused
gen
service gons get, particularly in the center panels. I also used
various
colors to simulate dents, by pecking the surface. I think it has merit.
Has anyone experimented with this at all?
You could make a decal from a color photo, and apply that. I *thought*
there was an article on doing this in a recent MR (a light green caboose,
IIRC) but I can't find the reference in the online index.

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Arrival dates of C&IM Mather box cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Rob Adams writes:

I'm looking at adding one or more Mather box cars to my 1934-3ight
car roster and would like to determine when the C&IM Mather cars joined
the road. I have the RMC issue from the late 80's early 90's and it
includes the photo of a C&IM car in the yellow/orange paint reported to
be taken in 1938 or 39 . Can anyone shed more light on the details of
the C&IM's Mather cars early history and would they be reasonably close
matches for the Proto 2000 model's dimensions and lettering? (I am
aware that some detail changes like brakes and end sills would be
warranted.) Thanks in advance.
My 7/33 ORER shows 200 Mather box cars in the CIM 8000-8199 series, and
they're also listed in Al Westerfield's 7/35 ORER on CD. How they were
painted at that time is anybody's guess - I've never seen a photo of one
from earlier than the 9/38 photo that was published in RMJ (NOT RMC). In
1933 they would almost certainly have had channel end sills, KC air brakes,
vertical staff hand brakes, and Mather Andrews trucks. The P2K model is
dimensionally correct and could be back-dated fairly easily, but paint
color is a dilemma. The car in the 9/38 photo had a 10/37 reweight date,
however, and was presumably repainted yellow at that time.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Resin Casting differences

Paul Lyons
 

In a message dated 3/24/2004 3:57:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,
YahooLists@... writes:
As you can see, there are a great number of things that can make one casting
better or worse than another. My suggestion - if the detail of a particular
casting is not good, contact the manufacturer and see if they'll exchange
it/replace it.



Pete
Pete-Your suggestion sounds reasonable, but you obviously have not done any
business with Sunshine Models where it can take up to four just to get the kit.
Paul Lyons
Oceanside, CA.


Re: Resin Casting differences

Pete Brown <YahooLists@...>
 

It could be a number of things.



Resin models are typically cast using RTV rubber. The number of high-detail
pulls you can get from a rubber mold depends upon a number of things
including the quality of the rubber used, and the amount of undercut in the
castings. To remove undercuts, you have to flex the rubber more and
therefore it shortens the lifetime of the mold. Removing any casting from
the rubber shortens its lifetime.



It could be the mold release chemical and/or how it was applied.



It could be temperature. How Polyurethane Resin (PUR) cures is highly
dependent on temperature. Most resin casters heat their molds for that
reason.



It could be the PUR itself (old), or it could be how the PUR was mixed.



It could be how the PUR was poured and whether or not it was degassed.



As you can see, there are a great number of things that can make one casting
better or worse than another. My suggestion - if the detail of a particular
casting is not good, contact the manufacturer and see if they'll exchange
it/replace it.



Pete



_____________________________________________________
Pete Brown - Gambrills, MD (Near Annapolis)
Visit my personal site : http://www.irritatedVowel.com
(wallpaper, western maryland ry, .net, photography, model rr)



_____

From: Andy Carlson [mailto:midcentury@...]
Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 2:37 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Resin Casting differences



Paul, I have no answer to your question, for I have
never encountered castings as you have described.
Perhaps others on this list with greater knowledge
than I can respond.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

--- cobrapsl@... wrote:

please tell me why the detail definition is not
consistent. I have seen and
owned several of the same kits where the detail
looks great on one set of
castings and absolutely sucks on another.


Arrival dates of C&IM Mather box cars

Rob Adams
 

I'm looking at adding one or more Mather box cars to my 1934-36 freight car roster and would like to determine when the C&IM Mather cars joined the road. I have the RMC issue from the late 80's early 90's and it includes the photo of a C&IM car in the yellow/orange paint reported to be taken in 1938 or 39 . Can anyone shed more light on the details of the C&IM's Mather cars early history and would they be reasonably close matches for the Proto 2000 model's dimensions and lettering? (I am aware that some detail changes like brakes and end sills would be warranted.) Thanks in advance.

Best regards, Rob Adams


Re: Modeling a Well Used Gon

Scott Pitzer
 

Could something like this become a "master" for reproduction? It would be a start for further modification using thick ACC and painting tricks. Or even "as is" if you don't worry that your car will have the exact same bulges as everyone else.) It would save a lot of people a lot of time.
I suppose the resin molding/casting process would be very challenging with an oddly shaped master, and it can't have a flat back like typical kit parts.
Getting this in styrene would be asking too much (say, from the maker of a gondola kit, providing an "option" like some military kits have "battle damaged" parts...)
Scott Pitzer
=========

-----Original Message-----
From: John Boren <mccjbcmd@...>


The March 2004 issue of Model RailroadING has an article on exactly this
topic. The author, Jeff Eggert, uses .001 inch shim brass sheets which he
hammers in a jig

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