Date   

Re: Early 1900's Wood Freight Cars

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

Maybe the best book on the subject is RAILWAY CAR CONSTRUCTION by William
Voss, published 1892, and fortunately reprinted by the Orange Empire Railway
Museum, Perris CA, in 1999. Price, about $25.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

----- Original Message -----
From: "behillman" <chris_hillman@msn.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 12:19 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Early 1900's Wood Freight Cars


I'm sure someone in the group can quite easily answer this question.

What cyclopedias/books are available that show accurate wooden car
construction, including the frames, sides, everthing actually.

I want to begin building exact "G" scale models of wooden freight
cars, cabooses, etc.

Also, when did all-wood, general car-construction tend to cease.

Paul Hillman


Early 1900's Wood Freight Cars

James Eckman <FUGU@...>
 

STMFC@yahoogroups.com wrote:

From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>

From: "behillman" <chris_hillman@msn.com>
Subject: Early 1900's Wood Freight Cars

I'm sure someone in the group can quite easily answer this question.

What cyclopedias/books are available that show accurate wooden car construction, including the frames, sides, everthing actually.
*The American Railroad Freight Car" edited by John H. White Jr.
*If you are interested, you must get this book. Best general wooden freight book.

Voss's book on Car construction is good and the early Railroad Cyclopedia's are great.

http://home.comcast.net/~ronin_engineer/railbooks.html#booksfreightcars

I want to begin building exact "G" scale models of wooden freight cars, cabooses, etc.

Also, when did all-wood, general car-construction tend to cease.
It was mostly over by the early 1900's but some nutcase of a railroad did order a big batch of them in 1920? I think this was the Southern.

From: "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@worldnet.att.net>

"Also, when did all-wood, general car-construction tend to cease."

Someone here will certainly find an exception, but generally, all-
wood construction (i.e., no steel centersill, no steel underframe) of freight cars was killed off by the end of World War I. All-wood, truss-rod cars simply weren't robust enough to meet the increased traffic demands brought on by the war.
I think that the increased car sizes along with the increasing difficulty of finding high quality lumber played a big role in this as well since the wooden frame pretty much was not produced after 1910 or so.

Jim


Re: scanning freight car slides & negatives

Don Strack <donstrack@...>
 

Andy Carlson wrote:

If you are doing only 35 MM film, you can
find a USB/firewire model for under $600.00 on the
net.
I use a Minolta Dimage Scan Dual II, from J&R Camera for $299. It does 35mm
in batches of four, and takes about 5 minutes for each batch. I use Ed
Hamrick's VueScan for the scanning software. I scan at 1200dpi, which
produces TIFF files of about 15 meg each. The high res scans have been used
successfully as high quality, half page photos in the slick-paper UPHS The
Streamliner magazine. Here is a sample:

http://www.utahrails.net/gallery/weber-echo2/up_gp30_action_tunnel_9_7_1986_
bek

Don Strack


Re: CGW PS1's

Tim O'Connor
 

Clark or Gene,

What style doors were on CGW 5601-5800?

Clark Propst wrote
I've looking at the three series of CGW PS1's. It appears that
the early carbody 93000 series and the newer 5000 series have US
Gypsum running boards. The 5600 appear to have Apex. Is this correct?

5001-5450 - USG
5451-5600 - Apex
5601-5780 - USG
93001-93500 - not listed on equipment diagram. As I look at a
picture of CGW 93245, I'd have to guess USG BUT ...

Gene Green


Re: Early 1900's Wood Freight Cars

John Degnan \(RailScaler\) <RailScaler@...>
 

Paul,

I have been through this very same discussion with quite a few folks in the past about G scale... and in all honesty, its a waste of time! G... whatever it is... is what it probably always will be due to the mentality of the various manufacturers. Therefore, I determined that 1/32 scale (which is actually I scale (as in "eye") (also called Gauge 1) is the best way to go if you gotta have large trains, and if you don't mind scratch-building... which I don't, and you don't seem to. 1/32 scale is extremely easy to model in due to how it can be 'scaled out' using a standard, household ruler (rule) (3/8" = 1 scale foot), and is supposedly the smallest scale that can be modeled in where detail doesn't have to be sacrificed. There are a few manufacturers out there who are making 1/32 scale stuff... see links below :

http://www.southernsteamtrains.com/ <--- UNBELIEVABLE MODELS!!! (If you can afford them)

http://www.fine-art-models.com/ <--- UNBELIEVABLE MODELS!!! (If you can afford them)

http://www.accucraft.com/ <--- UNBELIEVABLE MODELS!!! (If you can afford them)

http://www.marchesmodels.com/

http://www.marklin.com/scales/maxi/

http://www.galtran.com/

http://www.gaugeone.org/

http://www.dingler.de/main.html

http://www.bockholt-lokomotiven.de/en/index.html

And have a look here for more scales info : http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/scales.htm

Good luck.


John Degnan
RailScaler@comcast.net
From Railroading To Religion... John's World on the Web :
http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/welcome.htm
I'm primarily an HO and S scale modeler/collector, but I occasionally build something in 1/32 for a shelf-display.
=============================================

----- Original Message -----
From: behillman
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 8:28 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Early 1900's Wood Freight Cars


Bob,

Thank you for addressing my NEXT question of building in "G" "scale"
versus "gauge".

The scale question is one to be thought about, but I like the
larger "scale" size in general and need to figure out what to do
about "scaling'.

Perhaps there should be a (G)NMRA(?) to determine standards??

It is like, again, the early American railroads with 6 foot, etc.,
gauges, until the 4'- 8 1/2" gauge was established for "standard
gauge".

But, first of all I would like to assemble more information on
actual prototype car construction, and then go from there with the
greater question of "scale".

Paul Hillman



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bob Webber <rswebber@c...> wrote:
> You'll never do it. There is no "G" scale (that is really adhered
> to). There is a "G" gauge.
>
> Which "G" scale would you be working in? 1/32? 1/29? 1/24?
1/22.5?
> 1/20.3 (which is "F" scale)? 1/18? All are scales that run
on "G"
> gauge.



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Re: Early 1900's Wood Freight Cars

Bob Webber <rswebber@...>
 

At 07:28 PM 4/26/2004, you wrote:
But, first of all I would like to assemble more information on
actual prototype car construction, and then go from there with the
greater question of "scale".
Paul Hillman
The most readily available information on wood freight car construction is going to be D&RGW narrow gauge cars - simply because they have lasted in their semi-original (if they can be called that) state for so long. The construction details and methods are identical - which is why I suggest Hartford, because in that scale/gauge/ size? you'll find that the kits have the best information as to construction details as well as kit details.

The reason I say that these are the most readily available is that you can find the plans down to the nuts and bolts level rather easily, and people have been making contest grade models of them for some time - there is nothing like a stock car in that size! But even a simple flat car can be fun, and there is at least motive power to run with it. Of course, there is motive power for the large scale standard gauge too - BUT, the steam power for those scales are mostly late steam and would not be likely seen toting an all wood car around.

BTW, Hartford now has passenger car kits too. Now, if you want to just dip a toe in - Hartford makes some of the original 1880's two axle cars that will at least give you the flavor of the beast you're looking at. Maxwell and others have plan packs for specific models and are on the web. Aside from that, White, Gregg and the reprints of the car encyclopedias of the 1880's and earlier are going to be the best bets.


Re: CGW PS1's

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Thanks Gene and Tim for your input.
Clark Propst


Re: C&O boxcars series 5400-5499

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Gene Moser wrote:

I have castings for the Deco ends and Creco doors for the C&O numbers
5400-5499, a sub series from 4000-5499. What would be a good starting
point for the
sides and roof for a car in that series?
Gene, I built one of these box cars several years ago. I bought a C&O
Viking roof Red Caboose kit marketed by Des Plaines hobbies. Still
available?? I cut the ends off the model and changed the number to the
correct series and painted the ends and doors black.
I would always run the car next to a flat car to show off the neat ends on
our modular railraod at train shows.

I am a "two foot is good" modeler, so a "looks okay" would work.
Me too, simply because I can't see anymore!
Clark Propst


Re: Early 1900's Wood Freight Cars

Paul Hillman
 

Bob,

Thank you for addressing my NEXT question of building in "G" "scale"
versus "gauge".

The scale question is one to be thought about, but I like the
larger "scale" size in general and need to figure out what to do
about "scaling'.

Perhaps there should be a (G)NMRA(?) to determine standards??

It is like, again, the early American railroads with 6 foot, etc.,
gauges, until the 4'- 8 1/2" gauge was established for "standard
gauge".

But, first of all I would like to assemble more information on
actual prototype car construction, and then go from there with the
greater question of "scale".

Paul Hillman



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bob Webber <rswebber@c...> wrote:
You'll never do it. There is no "G" scale (that is really adhered
to). There is a "G" gauge.

Which "G" scale would you be working in? 1/32? 1/29? 1/24?
1/22.5?
1/20.3 (which is "F" scale)? 1/18? All are scales that run
on "G"
gauge.


Re: C&O boxcars series 5400-5499

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Apr 26, 2004, at 3:48 PM, steamgene@aol.com wrote:

I have castings for the Deco ends and Creco doors for the C&O numbers
5400-5499, a sub series from 4000-5499.   What would be a good
starting point for the
sides and roof for a car in that series? I am a "two foot is good"
modeler,
so a "looks okay" would work.   
Gene:

Deco end cars were 5400-5499. You'll also need a Viking roof casting
from Des Plaines Hobbies in Des Plaines. IL. Your best bet for the car
body is the Intermountain 1937 AAR car as it used separate ends and
roof. However, you'll need to do a little file work to get the Des
Plaines roof to fit into the IM car body.

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Re: CGW PS1's

Gene Green <lgreen@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Clark Propst" <cepropst@n...> wrote:
I've looking at the three series of CGW PS1's. It appears that
the early carbody 93000 series and the newer 5000 series have US
Gypsum running boards. The 5600 appear to have Apex. Is this correct?
Thanks,
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa
5001-5450 - USG
5451-5600 - Apex
5601-5780 - USG
93001-93500 - not listed on equipment diagram. As I look at a
picture of CGW 93245, I'd have to guess USG BUT ...

Gene Green


Re: scanning freight car slides & negatives

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I've been postponing investing in a serious scanner until
the critical improvements in quality vs price came into
line. Nikon introduced the Coolscan 8000 a while back and
although quite expensive ($1150 current low street price)
it looked like the ticket for me (up to 6x9 negatives and
4.2 dynamic range and 4000 dpi). Now they come out with the
9000 which is basically the same with a dynamic range of
4.8 which is incredible, almost too good to be true. So I
was wondering if anyone here has used the Nikon Coolscanners
and what they thought of them, especially whether the software
is easy to use and what the learning curve looks like.
I am pleased with my Nikon Super Coolscan 5000. It can certainly do any slides or 35 mm negatives for any publication need we will have. It's not terribly fast but does a fine job. Learning curve: under an hour; probably under 20 minutes if you've used scanners before.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Early 1900's Wood Freight Cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Paul Hillman wrote:
I'm sure someone in the group can quite easily answer this question.
What cyclopedias/books are available that show accurate wooden car
construction, including the frames, sides, everthing actually.
All of them up to, say, 1912. And also look for Train Shed No. 29, William Voss's book, Freight Cars, 1892. It's a wonderful source.

Also, when did all-wood, general car-construction tend to cease.
Well, what do you mean by "all-wood?" Do you include truss rods? The NWP built at least one flat car in their own shops in 1924 which was all-wood except for truss rods and details.
But generally, the steel underframe (or, as Richard H. said, the steel draft sill) came in very strongly circa 1905 as the new, larger locomotives with potent air brakes and knuckle couplers were pulling apart those old wood underframes. You can, of course, find exceptions to any rule and I wouldn't doubt that some backwoods operation somewhere built all-wood equipment as late as WW II or later. But if you want a realistic date, I'd say 1905 to 1910.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Color of auto frame loads

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Brantner wrote:
I am doing some gondola auto frame loads; circa 1950.
I would think that they too would be painted before
shipping. Does anyone know just what color they might
have been painted? A primer gray seems to be the most
likely.
Bruce, there are color photos from several areas showing them as gloss black.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: scanning freight car slides & negatives

Andy Carlson
 

The Polaroid Sprintscan 4000 has been frequently cited
by various reviewers as being the speediest of the
4000 dpi scannners, and has among the highest rated
software. If you are doing only 35 MM film, you can
find a USB/firewire model for under $600.00 on the
net.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Clinchfield RR boxcar ends

Andy Carlson
 

--- Jerry Glow <jerryglow@comcast.net> wrote:


http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/boxauto/crr5307.html

Anyone interested in doing this car and are looking
for ends, I have 5 sets of Intermountain ends (3/4
IDE). Postpaid, I am asking $1.75 pair. These fit the
IM '37 AAR 40' boxcar.
I also have some IM diagonal panel roofs available for
$1.50 pair, postpaid. These fit the IM boxcars as this
is their intended use. Deduct $0.40 if shipped with
the ends.
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Color of auto frame loads

Fred Swanson <fredswanson@...>
 

Imagine if you will a 1958 black cadillac stationwagon heading to the
cemetary on a bright sunny afternoon.You need sunglasses to look at
the paint job. Frames are not that shinny. They are painted with a
satin finish. At least that has held true when I exposed parts of
the frames to 1937, 1955 and 1959 Chevy trucks when I was restoring
them.
Fred Swanson

-- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Brantner <sfcoyote_2000@y...>
wrote:
I have been following the discussion on the steel beam
loads. I was especially interested in the color of
the beams, i.e. the painting of them before shipment.


I am doing some gondola auto frame loads; circa 1950.
I would think that they too would be painted before
shipping. Does anyone know just what color they might
have been painted? A primer gray seems to be the most
likely.

Bruce

=====
Bruce R. Brantner, Sr.
Coyote Trails RR
Coyote Div. of SF RR




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Re: Early 1900's Wood Freight Cars

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

Steel underframes, or at least steel draft sills, had been almost
universally adopted by ca. 1910, and I doubt that any major car
manufacturer built standard gauge wood underframe cars after that date.
I'd put the primary cutoff around 1913, as there was still some lingering
wood center sill construction done into the early Teens for roads that
were too poor or too ornery to pay for steel frames.

David Thompson


Re: scanning freight car slides & negatives

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

I have an ED-4000, and it is slow on 35mm slides.
--
Brian Ehni


From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
Reply-To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:48:38 -0400
To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] scanning freight car slides & negatives

I've been postponing investing in a serious scanner until
the critical improvements in quality vs price came into
line. Nikon introduced the Coolscan 8000 a while back and
although quite expensive ($1150 current low street price)
it looked like the ticket for me (up to 6x9 negatives and
4.2 dynamic range and 4000 dpi). Now they come out with the
9000 which is basically the same with a dynamic range of
4.8 which is incredible, almost too good to be true. So I
was wondering if anyone here has used the Nikon Coolscanners
and what they thought of them, especially whether the software
is easy to use and what the learning curve looks like. One
caution I have read is that anyone who wants to scan 120
(Brownie) negatives has to buy a $200 glass film holder for
these scanners. Also, reviewers consistently say it is slow,
but I wonder if that is true of any 4000 dpi scanner?



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Re: Color of auto frame loads

Bob Webber <rswebber@...>
 

At 02:47 PM 4/26/2004, you wrote:
On my frequent trips from Columbus, OH to Bellevue, OH working as a conductor for NS, we pass an auto frame manufacturing plant. This plant, located at Bellevue, OH, ships frames and they are all painted gloss black. There are literally hundreds of them behind the plant and every single one that I have seen is black. Also, we have a train that hauls these frames and I have put this train together for it's trip from Bellevue to Cols. Again, all the frames I have seen are gloss black...
I wonder though if as postulated before, this is a regional/manufacturer preference? I thought that some Dodge or other Chrysler division frames were a turquoise blue - just as engine blocks are/were different colors, I *thought* so to were some frames. I am certainly NOT saying that this is the case, I am asking more than anything else. I only remember black gloss frames myself. But - were AMC's black? Dodge? I don't know, but I remember seeing blue frames in some wrecking yards when the body was off the frame.

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