Date   

Re: Give me a brake

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I bought them, thanks Al.
Clark W Propst

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan C. Welch" <acwelch@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, September 22, 2003 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Give me a brake


At 09:38 PM 9/21/2003 -0500, you wrote:
I want to back date a couple of Bowser GLa hoppers Ben Hom was nice
enough to provide me with. I'm making them M&StL, xCRR they have K type
brakes. There are two parts to the brake unit. One beside the other. I'm
thinking of just cutting a Tichy K brake part in two and gluing the two
pieces side by side. Is there a better way?
Thanks all,
Clark Propst
Hi Clark:

Tichy does make a split K set, where the reservoir and brake cylinder are
separate parts. This does produce a better result.

Al








Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: sugar beets (was Southern Pacific Mystery Photo)

Tim O'Connor
 

Some oil rigs along the coast itself are now gone; others are on
offshore platforms a ways out. Sugar beets are gone from California
AFAIK but are still raised in a few places like Idaho, just like sugar
cane is still raised in Loosiana and a very few places in Hawaii.

Tony Thompson

Tony, you've got to get your nose out of the library and get out
more!

"California's 2002 sugar beet production is estimated to be 1.97 million tons, 23 percent above 2001.
Planted acreage is estimated at 50.2 thousand acres, up 8 percent from last year. Harvested acreage,
estimated at 49.9 thousand acres, is 12 percent above 2001. The yield, at 39.5 tons per acre, is 11 percent
above 2001. Crop condition and yields were reported to be excellent this season."

"Nationally, the 2002 sugar beet production is revised to 27.7 million tons, 8 percent above 2001. Area
harvested totaled a revised 1.36 million acres, 9 percent above the previous year. The revised yield,
at 20.4 tons per acre, is 1 percent below the 2001 yield."


Re: handbrake ratchets

BlackDiamondRR@...
 

Hello,
Read the recent comments about "all" handbrakes having ratchets. Not
true....the handbrakes made by the W. H. Miner Co. have no ratcheting feature.
On the railroad we call them "forever" brakes because they take "forever" to
wind on and 9 out of 10 times when fully tightened don't hold squat. In my
opinion their use should be outlawed.

Modeling the LV, DL&W, and PRR in S scale in the 50's....

Bud Rindfleisch


Re: car selection

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

ed_mines wrote:

If I was a new shipper and I wanted to ship something by rail if I
called up the railroad what questions would they ask me regarding
selection of the car? Routing? Who says what kind of a car a load
should be shipped in? The originating road? The shipper?

I know that old, worn out cars near retirement are used for
unpleasant loadings like hides. If I want a new car with a clean
interior would I pay more? How about a 50 ft. car? If I wanted and
paid for an average car might a better one show up? Is it likely that
the car that showed up would be from the originating railroad and
that the originating road would return foreign road cars as empties?
Ed,

Once again, Rule #1 of the AAR's Code of Freight Car Service Rules in the Late Steam Era was "Home Cars shall not be used for the movement of traffic beyomnd the limits of the home road when the use of other cars under these rules is practical." The effect of this Rule was to give precedence to loading foreign car empties. Thus, the home road would not be returning foreign road cars as empties if practical loads for them were available.

The reason for this rule was to reduce non-revenue producing empty car miles as well as to reduce the amount of cars which had to be switched, classified and hauled over the road. Thus, under this Rule, home road cars should be considered as a kind of strategic reserve to be released for loading only when all other practical alternatives had been exhausted.

As a result of the application of this Rule, "per diem" charges would increase slightly, but that increase was infintessimal against the potential cost of extra empty car miles, and in the extreme example, increasing the capacity of yards, track & number of cars owned.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Early 1900's Wood Freight Cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

John Degnan wrote:
Do you have any photos of that flat car? If so, can you scane them and send me a few copies?
John, you don't want to see it right now. Those fine oak sills and stringers, and decking, have all warped and twisted something incredible. The comment by a CSRM person was, "Well, it got left out in the rain once," to which I responded, "Gee, so do most working flat cars." Somebody at CSRM doesn't understand lumber, or something. Maybe someone on the list knows more about what happened.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Tank car unloading

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gene Moser wrote:
All things are possible. Around 1990, give or take two years, while
spending the night at the Visiting Officers' Quarters at Defense General Supply
Center in Richmond, Virginia, I started taking pictures of a PS-1 boxcar and what
was probably a USRA 40 foot flat car. The boxcar still had a roof walk and
full ladders -- both of them with U.S. Army reporting marks. A security type
objected to me taking pictures of them.
Imagine if you did it now. You'd be in Guantanamo in three shakes of a lamb's tail, and not back on this list for years, if then.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: PRR G31 Gondolas

Garrett W. Rea <Garrett.Rea@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Thomas Olsen <tmolsen@U...> wrote:
List,

In reply to Eldon Gatwood's plea for a G31 urethane kit: I think
that
you will see the Rail Classics G31 series in brass before anyone
else
does it in a urethane kit. I have been after Martin Lofton to do
these
cars in kit form for quite a while, but so far he is so far backed
up in
orders and with other projects, that it may be a brass car first.

Tom Olsen
Actually, this could go either way. As I posted earlier, I have seen
the test shots of one in resin the builder is working on boxing up
the kits and getting decals right now as I type this, but this state
of limbo has been going on for a while....time will tell tho.

Cordially-

Garrett Rea
Nashville, TN


Re: ICC Annual Reports (was Moody's Industrials 1958)

Dave Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

Don, was the list of commodities cited the same as what the ICC used or
something different? And is the info of received-from and delivered-to
somple "other railroads" or are each one cited by name (with data)? I'm
quite curious about WP and SP interchanges with the Rio Grande in 1944, 48,
50, and 56.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----
From: Don Strack [mailto:donstrack@...]
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:57 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] ICC Annual Reports (was Moody's Industrials 1958)


Tim Gilbert wrote about the ICC Blue Books:

Another "weapon" in my arsenal are the ICC's Blue Books or more properly
called "Annual Report on Statistics of Railways in the United States."
(After 1953, these were called Annual Report on Transport Statistics in
the United States.") These can also be located by searching the
bookfinder site.
Just today, I was looking at a very similar product. These are the Utah
State Public Service Commission railroad annual reports. They are typeset
forms, with either typewritten or handwritten responses to the same
questions as are in the ICC annual reports. I would imagine that every state
has similair products, which would come in very handy if you are looking for
intrastate information. For the reports here in Utah, they are readily
available as next-day (or maybe same-day afternoon) deliveries to the Utah
State Archives Reading Room.

For example, for 1934, I noticed that UP (not OSL or LA&SL) interchanged
6700 carloads of coal to other carriers, whilst terminating over 28000
carloads in the state. There is no indicator of where the coal came from, or
where it went to, but these numbers give us a backdoor understanding of
carloadings within one state (in this case, it was all in wonderful GS
gondolas, likely in Utah Coal Route GS gons). For those with an interest in
other Utah roads, yes, there are reports for Bamberger, Utah Railway, Carbon
County, and even Utah Idaho Central. Oh, the wonder of it all!

Don Strack
http://utahrails.net





Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: FS: Moody's Industrials 1958

Mark P.
 

If you don't want to shell out the money, you might check your local library. The Fort Wayne, IN public library has microfiche for all Moody's from 1911 on (if only I could get the microfiche printouts to work!). The Columbus, OH public library has many hard-copy volumes, at least as early as 1910, and allow copying.

I have been using these to help learn what the Toledo & Ohio Central hauled - almost 90% coal! Now, if I could only figure out what was hauled on the St. Marys branch, as it is far from the coal fields.

Mark Plank

----- Original Message -----
You may be able to find better prices and variety after searching for
Moody's Railroads (pre-1955) or Moody's Transportation (post-1955) at
http://bookfinder.com/

--
___________________________________________________________
Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm


Re: ITC history requested

Ed Hawkins
 

On Thursday, May 20, 2004, at 02:53 PM, David Jobe, Sr. wrote:

Here's a bit more to add to your information from Mike Fortney who replied
on IT list.

"ITC boxcar series 400-499 were acquired by lease 11/3/63 from Chicago
Freight Car Co. Cars were originally PS-1s built for the Reading RR,
were rebuilt with strengthened under door side sill for ITC. Lease
expired 11/2/74.
David,
The acquisition from Chicago Freight Car Co. makes sense to me as they were into this in a big way at that time. However, Mr. Fortney's information is not correct.
I can say with certainty that the ITC box cars in question are not PS-1s. For starters, the first PS-1 was built in 1947 and this car was a former RDG car was built 1946. Secondly, RDG never bought any new PS-1s.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Southern Pacific Mystery Photo

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

But someone said the area to the right is now all built up , , ,
Not exactly. A few houses in a group; there were a FEW even back then.

and that to the left is now full of oil rigs, which probably don't ship in
tank cars and what about the sugar beet traffic? Is that gone now?
Some oil rigs along the coast itself are now gone; others are on offshore platforms a ways out. Sugar beets are gone from California AFAIK but are still raised in a few places like Idaho, just like sugar cane is still raised in Loosiana and a very few places in Hawaii.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Southern Pacific Mystery Photo

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

On May 20, 2004, at 12:31 PM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:
What do you mean "again"? You mean I'm supposed to READ all
those books I have stacked on the floor?? Sheesh...
Only if you want the information, Shawn, only if you want the information.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: ITC history requested

itc_725 <emfour@...>
 

David,
The acquisition from Chicago Freight Car Co. makes sense to me as they
were into this in a big way at that time. However, Mr. Fortney's
information is not correct.
I can say with certainty that the ITC box cars in question are not
PS-1s. For starters, the first PS-1 was built in 1947 and this car was
a former RDG car was built 1946. Secondly, RDG never bought any new
PS-1s.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
Ed,
I stand corrected, ITC 8400-8459 series boxcars were the rebuilt
PS-1s, leased from Darby Co. in 1971 and painted in the ITC
yellow/green letter/red trucks scheme.

Mike Fortney


Re: car selection

Greg Martin
 

ed_mines@... writes:

If I was a new shipper and I wanted to ship something by rail if I called up the railroad what questions would they ask me regarding selection of the car? Routing? Who says what kind of a car a load should be shipped in? The originating road? The shipper?
Ed you didn't say what you were shipping, I don't mean to be snippy but that would be the first determinng factor. But if you neeed a boxcar they would have you meet with a "glad-hander" or marketing rep. Do you need a car that is insulated for products like cannned goods or paint??? Could you be more specific?

I know that old, worn out cars near retirement are used for unpleasant loadings like hides. If I want a new car with a clean interior would I pay more?<
Again, all boxcar cars are for clean and dry loading, unless you are shipping something nasty like hides... No you would normally ship (in our era) on a per hundred weight so you might have to sweep the car clean (say brick dust, bagged cement or the like)so you could load paper. Paper demands a high quality car and most paper cars are kept in that service say versus lumber loading, ect.

How about a 50 ft. car? If I wanted and paid for an average car might a better one show up? Is it likely that the car that showed up would be from the originating railroad and that the originating road would return foreign road cars as empties?<
At the time unless you had a product that was extremely light and required a high cubic footage why would you neeed a 50-foot car over a 40-foot car. Cars moved on a tarriff (ICC governed tarriffs) based on per hundred weight.

I know that if I had a siding I would call up the railroad that serviced the siding, but what if I loaded on a team track?<
You would call the Railroad that owned the team track you were loading from. That is who woulld supply you the equipment. The Railraod might ask you the destineation in case they wanted to apply a destination carriers car to the order, but they might not care and just give you any car they had in the area. TYHe railroads would not move a destination carriers car into the area from afar, they would just send you whatever was handy. That's the reality...

Then I would have the choice of a couple of railroads.
Only if the team track was open to reciprical switching, otherwise you are on a "closed switch" unless you were willing to pay more for a line haul to "your" favored carrier. But you would be able to pick the routing. Deregulation was the death of the bridge carriers... That is why the so many mergers were organized in the late 70's and early eighties and why they continue today. Bridge carriers kept reps. in many regions of high traffic to "glad hand" their way into "your" business. This kept their revenues up by encourageing "you" to use their favored routing so they could get the highest portion of the haul. We now call this "jointline rates". The difference is they are generally higher than online traffic. That's why Transloaders of today want and strive for locations with reciprical switching or "jointline" service. But it also creates rates in todays markets that make a haul from the Pac Nor West to a closed destination like Portland to Las Vegas (UP to UP) higher than going to Chicago... Portland to Sioux Falls/City on the BNSF about five hundred bucks higher than Chicago, what are you going to do? Truck It? Go Figure!

Ed Mines
Greg Martin


Re: Mill Gondolas In Interchange

John Boren <mccjbcmd@...>
 

This raises the question of what sort of steel CF&I has produced
at Pueblo, Colorado over the years other than rail that might have negated
the need for steel from the east. I don't have a clue. Does anyone know?
Don,

The CF&I at Pueblo never produced sheet steel products. CF&I was originally
a rail mill and merchant bar mill, and in the 1950s expanded into seamless
steel oil field tubing. A company map from 1974 (sorry, I know its beyond
our era, but it's the only map I have) lists the following structures which
might be relevant:
Seamless tube mill
Angle Finish & Shipping
11" Bar mill
Continuous Rod mill
Barb wire room
Wire drawing room
Spike mill
Rail anchor plant
25" mill
Tie plate & angle bar mill
12" & 14" mill
Rod mill

Hope this helps some.
Jack Boren


Re: F&C heritage kits I have

Don Valentine
 

My Lord, Ed, you are either not as critical as the rest of us or are in an
extremely mellow mood today. I'll single out one or two of these cars to
demonstrate why, in additon to the comment Richard H. has already made with
regard to F & C instructions, or lack thereof. I'll finish off with what I
have been told by people who were there is the story behind F & C.

Quoting ed_mines <ed_mines@...>:

I haven't been too impressed with the few F&C kits I bought
(including the Seley hopper)but some of the other kits they've made
are pretty nice.

I have most of the Yankee Clipper kits and the B&M single sheathed
box car stands out. I have some Hojack yards kits (was that the name
of the kits from the hobby shop in Syracuse)? I remember the CNJ gon
similar to a PRR GR hopper and the NYC 40 ft. steel gon similar to
(or built from) to a USRA gon. Both pretty nice.
I, too, have most of the Yankee Clipper kits and have known Bill Dulmaine
personally for some twenty-five years. F & C really burned him out, which is
just one reason you don't see him offering any new kits. But the B & M single
sheathed car will only do as a stand in until something better comes along,
hopefully in the near future. The worst error with it was with the ribbed roof
version until I advised Bill that there were two many ribs and in the wrong
locations, after which F & C corrected it and issued new roofs. Hope you have
a "good" one if you have the ribbed version. When compared to a Westerfield
the quality of the casting leaves a lot to be desired.


The Steam Shack single sheathed box cars were nice too.
Which one? The CV end door version is not complete on the end with the
Camel door and this was never corrected though pointed out.

I have the CNJ/B&O hopper with 8 side ribs which was (is) offered by
the Anthracite society. Like other hopper kits it's not so easy to
get together but it has a lot less parts than Westerfield's hoppers.
It was worth the $20 or so I paid.

I'd buy any of these in a plastic bag for $12.
What you get in a bag is not the same from my experience as the kit in
the box. As an example, the Rutland gons that were built up at home from
flat cars were one of F & C's best kits when done for Mike and Randy of the
Rutland Car Shops. I believe those are still available under the F & C label
now as well but the bagged version of the same car has no detail on the
inside of the car other than the floor, as Sharon pointed out to me last
fall. If you are going to add a load that should not be a problem, however,
depending on wether the load will "hide" the inside of the sidewalls.


I've heard that Sunshine kits die when the "rubber" (rubber mold)
dies. Can't a new mold be made from the masters? Is it too
expensive? Has anyone ever got a resin kit from a mold that was worn
out?
Who ever gave you this idea????? The rubber molds for such cars are good
for about 20 to 30 pours at best, depending on the intricacy of what is being
cast. Any good caster (not molder as Tom Madden has pointed out) would always
make new molds from the original masters. In fact some will make several rubber
molds from the same master at the outset so more than one kit can be cast at one
time.


Athearn trucks look like the mold has seen better days (haven't bought
anything Athearn in 10 or 15 years).

Which one? I purchased 2500 pair of AAR sideframes from Athearn a year
ago and they were fine.


Some years ago RMC ran an article about the house at Gulf Summit on the
Erie. About that time, or shortly thereafter, Steve Funaro, then still
living on Long Guyland (sorry you New Yoikers!) walked into Willis Hobbies
in Mineola with a model of the house that he had cast himself. Al Ford, who
owned Willis, asked him if he could cast more. When Steve advised in the
affirmative Al took him into his office, sat down to discuss the cost of
casting the parts, threw in some numbers for items purchased from others,
instructions, boxes, etc, gave Steve his first order and F & C was born.
Anyone in the NYC or Long Island area can walk into Willis and ask if they
think I am kidding about this. But it is important to realize that a lot of
small ventures get started like that.

About five years ago I spoke with Steve and asked him when he was going
to start using a decent resin for his kits. When he finally raised the
issue of not knowing where to get the better stuff I told him where to get
the same material that Al and Marty seem to be using for their kits, which
IMHO is far superior to what Steve and Clair Gilbert of Sylvan use. The
better resin costs more, which is the only reason I can think of why Steve
has not made the change. Oh well, at least his maters have gotten somewhat
better in the last three to four years. Not Frank Hodina's quality (the best
IMHO) but better. The Rr-11 Santa Fe reffer that Frank did for Marty is far
and away my favorite resin kit even though it is not of a local prototype.

Don Valentine


ICC Annual Reports (was Moody's Industrials 1958)

Don Strack <donstrack@...>
 

Tim Gilbert wrote about the ICC Blue Books:

Another "weapon" in my arsenal are the ICC's Blue Books or more properly
called "Annual Report on Statistics of Railways in the United States."
(After 1953, these were called Annual Report on Transport Statistics in
the United States.") These can also be located by searching the
bookfinder site.
Just today, I was looking at a very similar product. These are the Utah
State Public Service Commission railroad annual reports. They are typeset
forms, with either typewritten or handwritten responses to the same
questions as are in the ICC annual reports. I would imagine that every state
has similair products, which would come in very handy if you are looking for
intrastate information. For the reports here in Utah, they are readily
available as next-day (or maybe same-day afternoon) deliveries to the Utah
State Archives Reading Room.

For example, for 1934, I noticed that UP (not OSL or LA&SL) interchanged
6700 carloads of coal to other carriers, whilst terminating over 28000
carloads in the state. There is no indicator of where the coal came from, or
where it went to, but these numbers give us a backdoor understanding of
carloadings within one state (in this case, it was all in wonderful GS
gondolas, likely in Utah Coal Route GS gons). For those with an interest in
other Utah roads, yes, there are reports for Bamberger, Utah Railway, Carbon
County, and even Utah Idaho Central. Oh, the wonder of it all!

Don Strack
http://utahrails.net


Re: Meat Reefers

Greg Martin
 

In a message dated 5/20/2004 4:52:53 AM Pacific Standard Time, ZOE@...
writes:


Greg:

I need to finish mine. What color did we decide on? I think I would be
inclined to go with a very dirty red. Comments?

Mont Switzer
Well, Mont I did go back to Oxide Red roof as Jim Singer's color photo showed
but the next one will be green... I did weather the roof I would say heavily
... at least for me.

I will attach a shot for you privately but that's because the list will
strip it out ... publicly 3^)

Greg


Re: Paint, not as simple as it looks

Andy Carlson
 

Seems to be a lot of opinion that scale plays a part
in color selection. Maybe I can change to Z scale, and
paint all of my freight cars off-white. Glad life can
be so simple...
-Andy Carlson
CA


Re: ADMIN: Moderated postings

jaley <jaley@...>
 

On May 20, 4:26pm, asychis@... wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ADMIN: Moderated postings
In a message dated 5/20/2004 3:23:49 PM Central Standard Time,
jaley@... writes:
The rest of you may notice a flood of really old emails; there is
a huge backlog of moderated postings, and I'm going to release all
those
emails that I think are appropriate for the list (and delete the rest).
Wow! Just like Uncle Fidel! The prisoners are free, the prisoners are
free!
:^)

Jerry Michels
Yep. This is why everyone should behave while on this list: you don't
want your messages to end up in Purgatory like these (or deleted like the
several hundred you didn't see).

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley jaley@...
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533

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