Brian Ehni wrote:

The one time I tried to politely point out their error, I was told, in
essence, that they did not care.

Well said, Brian: this is their response to nearly all input, particularly most prototype data, though I really think in recent years they have moderated a bit. Bill Wischer seems to be trying to do a little better, though whatever the "arrogance chemical" is in the water in that part of Wisconsin, hasn't abated.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

On Jun 1, 2004, at 9:18 AM, Andy Miller wrote:

Detail Associates also makes a styrene gon end which I have used to
upgrade
a lot of my stand in gondolas to get interior corrugations.  And don't
forget that the P2K gon kits come with two sets of ends, leaving you
with a
spare set.  The RTR crowd is out of luck, but they probably don't
care.

Tichy also sells the ends of their Dreadnaught drop ends as separate
parts.

Regards,
Ted Culotta

On 1-Jun-04, at 12:04 PM, Garth Groff wrote:

Dear friends,

The Sylvan web sites lists the following part: Mill Gondola Ends DP-0059: $3.95 CDN, $3.25 US. HO-Scale

The listing is found at: http://www.isp.ca/Sylvan/detail.htm

Has anyone here ever used these parts? I am wondering if they might be useful for replacing the PRR style ends that come with Eastern Car Works' 65' AAR mill gondola.

I haven't used them, but I believe these are probably a re-release of the old Dan Kirlin parts (originally released under the Canadian Model Railway Parts Guild name?). Some years ago, Clare Gilbert (Sylvan) purchased the patterns and rights from Dan Kirlin for his various ends/roofs/doors etc., intended to convert U.S. prototype cars to those built by various Canadian builders which had their own unique ideas in terms of these parts.

If so, these gondola ends were intended to replace the PRR ends that you mention on the ECW gon to make it a better replica of cars built by Canadian Car & Foundry in 1958 for CNR.

Ian & Katherina Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@...

Garth;
I was wondering the same thing, plus what the Tichy mill gon ends look like.
But they may not be usable as-supplied for 65-foot gons. The PRR G26 end
supplied in the ECW kit looks like an early "dreadnaught" drop end as also
supplied on some other cars, but there are many more cars that did NOT have
drop ends like this. That early end has those two big "X"s on the outside,
but sometimes you see them with the X facing in, making them look very
different. There is a definite need for the later Dread (and other!)
gondola ends, particularly a three-rib fixed end and a PS 3-rib end.

I cut down a pair of P2K (Greenville gon kit extras) late Dread drop ends
for use on one of my projects. Those 65-footers are considerably narrower,
so there was a lot of filing of the pieces, but once glued back together,
they looked very close to the prototype I was doing (PRR G33A).

Elden Gatwood

Cannonball Car Shops also did a plastic version of the old Red Ball kit. I
built one of those, and by replacing/rebuilding many of the parts it came
out pretty well. But I recently finished another wagon top box from a West
Shore Line kit and I like it a lot better. It has a one-piece body that gets
you off to a flying start.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
MODEL RAILROADER Magazine
262-796-8776, ext. 461
Fax 262-796-1142
asperandeo@...

Detail Associates also makes a styrene gon end which I have used to upgrade
a lot of my stand in gondolas to get interior corrugations. And don't
forget that the P2K gon kits come with two sets of ends, leaving you with a
spare set. The RTR crowd is out of luck, but they probably don't care.

Regards,

Andy Miller

Dear friends,

The Sylvan web sites lists the following part: Mill Gondola Ends DP-0059: $3.95 CDN, $3.25 US. HO-Scale

The listing is found at: http://www.isp.ca/Sylvan/detail.htm

Has anyone here ever used these parts? I am wondering if they might be useful for replacing the PRR style ends that come with Eastern Car Works' 65' AAR mill gondola.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Yes, I agree. Though I don't have the sunshine car to compare it
to, I am also VERY happy with the cars that I purchased. As far as
the cast-on grabs: zip, zip, and they're gone. As for the horizontal
ribs, the only mistake that Mr. Schmidt made was to show photos of
the test shot on the original web site. It's night and day between
the test shots and the production castings. The brake gear is like an
Accurail car: the major components are there, missing the rods,
pipes, and bellcranks. Since I like to cut off the cast rods from
P2K, IM, BL, et al, this is actually closer to what I want to start
with anyway. The roof casting drops right in place... hardly any gap
between the roof and the sides. Since I glued the roof on before
painting, this wasn't an issue anyway, however if you want to paint
first so you don't have to mask for the silver roof, there should be
absolutely no problem tacking down the roof with a couple spots of
ACC after the paint dries. The paint's still drying, so I can't speak
for the decals yet, but they are certainly sharp looking and distinct
while on the backing paper.
I hope that they sell well enough to cover the cost of tooling:
selfishly, I want some short ribbed cars too!
Phil Buchwald



--- In STMFC@..., <twencl@c...> wrote:

Clark, you are correct about the new model but I am on this list

and I do not waste any time modeling the 80's. Try mid-70's, there
is a big difference! <grin>

To answer Brian's second question ...
During a conversation I had with J.G. Schmidt, the proprietor of

RIB SIDE CARS www.ribsidecars.com, he indicated that if this initial
offering is successful then other variations might be possible. I
have no knowledge of specific future plans at this time and like
everyone else could only speculate what may follow.

Here's a message from the MILW list reviewing the new rib side

boxcar:

>From: Mike Faletti
>Date: Tue May 25, 2004 12:09 am
>Subject: Re: Hiawatha box - my impressions


> I built two of his first kits last week, and am VERY happy

with the

> results. George has produced a very credible model that

compares quite

> favorably with the Sunshine kit, the main difference is

that George used

> cast on grabs (but free standing ladders) and slightly

simplified the

> underframe details, but he also did a better job on the

ribs - check out

> his web site for some nice pics of the model. My standard

is for all

> cars to have separate grabs, full brake detail, etc. so I

took the time

> to upgrade all the grabs and complete the break gear, as

well as modify

> the cars to reflect prototypes from the 70's. This was very

easy, as the

> grabs are all in locations that are possible to remove

without excessive

> effort. Of course, one other problem needed addressing with

a 70's era

> car: rotted side sheets. George is probably going to start

foaming at

> the mouth when he sees all those carefully machined ribs on

the bottom

> half of one car scraped off and replaced with a flat sheet

to simulate a

> late rebuilt car... ; ) Credit is also due George for

having one of

> the few roofs that actually FITS without sanding and

scraping! The car

> also comes with some very nice decals, and it is about time

someone did

> this.
>
> Every kit has compromises, and most of the ones with this

kit were aimed

> at keeping the cost down and are easily fixed by those

seeking to match

> P2K/Genesis/IM models. My only real disappointment was

having cast on

> doors. It's become quite the fashion lately on most models,

but a string

> of ribsides with busted open paper grain doors would have

been quite

> cool!
>
> I'm certainly looking forward to his future releases.
>
> Mike Faletti
>

Regards,
Tom Wencl

Tim;
Your analysis is dead on. Yes, there definitely seems to be a relationship
between the economy and their rebuilding/refurbishing practices. There was
a whopper of a recession in '58, there was also a depressed economy into
1940, and another mild recession in '54, at least.

And yes, they did have their share of relics; the X29 being one. There were
still tens of thousands of these guys around, and they were not all that
popular with anyone by then. They appear to have been the first cars
side-lined during downturns, but I also remember a yard full of them, all
dead-lined, in the 60's. The X31s were also being rapidly "obsoleted" by
newer designs. Nevertheless, the PRR eventually built some "tanks". The
article by Rich Burg on the 1958 rebuilds provides some really interesting
perspective on their problems with old equipment.

And as fun as it is poking fun at the PRR, they did build some of the
long-lasting freight cars ever seen. The F30A, G36 to G42 gondolas, X50 to
58 series boxcars, G39 ore cars, and others come to mind.

Elden Gatwood

I haven't looked into fixing the Atlas reefer with these but I may try
thinning them down, and either "skive" off the originals or just use the
elongated tips on an Intermountain R40-10 to more correctly represent the
hinges on an ART reefer.

Jerry in Fla

Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 14:18:34 -0400
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: Fixing the Atlas reefer


Could these be used to repair the Atlas 2-hinge reefer
and change it to a more modern 3-hinge style?

http://www.tichytraingroup.com/index.php?page=view_product.php&id=390&catego
ry=Freight+Car+Parts

These lead alloy panels were then glued to a solid wood block. The
resulting car requires two hands to lift it onto the track ;-)

Regards,

Andy Miller

Jace,

Paul's last name is spelled "Dolkos." He wasn't a B&M modeler (in some
ways he still isn't) -- he simply found the B&M presented an
outstanding theme for his beautiful layout. His main influence was Phil
Hasting's photography of the region.

Before this layout was started Paul had a fairly complete free-lanced
railroad called the "Dusquene" -- that was featured in MR back in the
80s.

Marty

As delivered, all the Milwaukee Shops built ribside box cars equipped
with Barber S2 trucks.

John Greedy

Branchline's 50 ton truck is a fine model of a Barber S2.
Red Caboose also made one to go with their GS gondolas.

As delivered, all the Milwaukee Shops built ribside box cars equipped
with Barber S2 trucks.

John Greedy


--- In STMFC@..., "Bill C." <pennsysdaddy@y...> wrote:

I own 7 MDC pre-decorated models, of the Milw. horizontal ribbed

40'

boxes. Three were identical design custom paint jobs by Walthers,
from back in 1989. The rest are MDC stock paint. None have yet to

be

built,(you all know how that is, I'm sure). Needless to say, it

took

a long time to collect these cars, all with different numbers, and
decoration differances. Some are done in the Electrified banner,
others sport only the tilted more modern herald, and so on. It's a
nice set, even know the cars details are old fashioned, by todays
standards.

What I would like to know is, did any of these Milw. Road 40' rib
side cars ever ride on National B-1 50 ton trucks, the same that

are

offered by Life-Like Proto? Any info on this would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Bill Civitello

Thats why I use a "blowgun" to remove as much excess water of the cleaned
model to miminize deposits.

Jerry in Fla

-----------original msg --------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:45:20 -0400
From: ljack70117@...
Subject: Re: Metal Primer

All soaps and detergents leave a residue unless you are using soft
water. Some times you can not see the residue.
Thank you
Larry Jackman

The original Red Ball wagon top box car kit required the assembler
to bend about 2 dozen flat metal panels into the characteristic
wagon top pattern. not likely this will be released as is in plastic.

The detailing (rivets etc.) could be described as "coarse".

Ed Mines

In regard to Mal's reference to Scalecoat painted engines from 30 years
ago: the toughness of the finish is because the Scalecoat used 30 years
ago had a lead base which has long since removed from the paint
formula. I have engines that were painted back in the middle 60's and
70's with the lead-based Scalecoat and the stuff is almost
bullet-proof. This seems to be true for all the paints manufactured
today.

The first thing that I do before putting on the finish coat is to prime
the piece with Floquil zinc chromate. After the prime coat is dry, then
I finish the job with Scalecoat. I have always used Scalecoat-I on
everything, be it brass, plastic or urethane and have never had it
damage the plastic or urethane surface. The secret is to spray it wet,
but not so heavy that it runs. In mixing for spraying, I use a 50-50
mix of paint and thinner. The nice thing about Scalecoat (whichever the
version) is that it is the most forgiving paint that I have ever used.

Over the years, I have had my share of disasters, but never from using
this paint. Once I was doing a NYC Pacemaker box car using Floquil and
sprayed it too heavy and managed to craze the side of the car. Another
time, I was baking a boiler from a PFM PRR L1 2-8-2 and was not watching
what I was doing, set the temperature up too high, and managed to make a
kit out of it. About 15 years later, I managed to do the same thing to
a Gem PRR B6sb. It was fun stripping the parts down, putting them
together and having to repaint them. Everyone has a few foul-ups over
time, they just won't admit to the really dumb ones. I took quite a
ribbing from my friends over making kits of two engines over a space of
fifteen years. They were right: I was supposed to know better!

So, it is just a matter of watching what you are doing and taking care
to properly thin the paint and watch how heavy your paint stream is
coming out of the brush. Actually, if you can raise the air pressure up
to about 50 psi, you will still cover what you are painting adequately,
but will actually use less paint. And if you are baking a brass piece,
make sure you have the right temperature, as Mal has said (150-170
degrees) and you will be okay.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...

Indian640@... wrote:

I own 7 MDC pre-decorated models, of the Milw. horizontal ribbed 40'
boxes. Three were identical design custom paint jobs by Walthers,
from back in 1989. The rest are MDC stock paint. None have yet to be
built,(you all know how that is, I'm sure). Needless to say, it took
a long time to collect these cars, all with different numbers, and
decoration differances. Some are done in the Electrified banner,
others sport only the tilted more modern herald, and so on. It's a
nice set, even know the cars details are old fashioned, by todays
standards.

What I would like to know is, did any of these Milw. Road 40' rib
side cars ever ride on National B-1 50 ton trucks, the same that are
offered by Life-Like Proto? Any info on this would be greatly
appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Bill Civitello

From talking to George Bishop I've learned that the formulation for
Accu-Paint is based upon the [silk-screen] inks originally used for
the SMP line of decals.

Mal,

Originally, yes. But George later switched to a new ink supplier in
California and eventually stopped printing his own decals. This has
been posted before but I'll post it again. Back in 1997, one of the
FCL list members had Accupaint thinner analyzed and came up with:

40% M.E.K.
35% ACETONE
12% PROPANOL
13% DIACETONE ALCOHOL

Note, no butyl alcohol at all. I suppose it's possible the formula
has changed with more stringent environmental regulations, but from
a quick search it seems that all of the above (including butyl alc)
are common ink ingredients.

Tim O.

Clark, you are correct about the new model but I am on this list and I do not waste any time modeling the 80's. Try mid-70's, there is a big difference! <grin>
To answer Brian's second question ...
During a conversation I had with J.G. Schmidt, the proprietor of RIB SIDE CARS www.ribsidecars.com, he indicated that if this initial offering is successful then other variations might be possible. I have no knowledge of specific future plans at this time and like everyone else could only speculate what may follow.

Here's a message from the MILW list reviewing the new rib side boxcar:

>From: Mike Faletti
>Date: Tue May 25, 2004 12:09 am
>Subject: Re: Hiawatha box - my impressions


> I built two of his first kits last week, and am VERY happy with the
> results. George has produced a very credible model that compares quite
> favorably with the Sunshine kit, the main difference is that George used
> cast on grabs (but free standing ladders) and slightly simplified the
> underframe details, but he also did a better job on the ribs - check out
> his web site for some nice pics of the model. My standard is for all
> cars to have separate grabs, full brake detail, etc. so I took the time
> to upgrade all the grabs and complete the break gear, as well as modify
> the cars to reflect prototypes from the 70's. This was very easy, as the
> grabs are all in locations that are possible to remove without excessive
> effort. Of course, one other problem needed addressing with a 70's era
> car: rotted side sheets. George is probably going to start foaming at
> the mouth when he sees all those carefully machined ribs on the bottom
> half of one car scraped off and replaced with a flat sheet to simulate a
> late rebuilt car... ; ) Credit is also due George for having one of
> the few roofs that actually FITS without sanding and scraping! The car
> also comes with some very nice decals, and it is about time someone did
> this.
>
> Every kit has compromises, and most of the ones with this kit were aimed
> at keeping the cost down and are easily fixed by those seeking to match
> P2K/Genesis/IM models. My only real disappointment was having cast on
> doors. It's become quite the fashion lately on most models, but a string
> of ribsides with busted open paper grain doors would have been quite
> cool!
>
> I'm certainly looking forward to his future releases.
>
> Mike Faletti
>

Regards,
Tom Wencl