Date   

helium car CORRECT markings

Earl Myers <emyers5@...>
 

Gents;
Anybody know what the correct owner/leasor markings are for the helium cars and how many in the WW2 era??
Earl Myers


ERIE Train N 78 Marion to Kent 3-16-31

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I have this information as an Excel spreadsheet.
If anybody's interested, please contact me off
list. Mr Tuson, Mr Gilbert, I am awaiting your
call . . .

SGL



ERIE Railroad Company

Train List

Departure: Akron OH

Date: 3/6/1931

Time: 12:20 PM

Arrival: Kent OH

Time: not noted

Train: N 78

Engine 3327

Conductor: J G Miller Could be J C
Miller

Sequence Mark Adj Car No. Commodity
Tons Destination ORER Desig
Description IL IH Doors CF
CAPY Type Region Notes
1 B4 (Big 4) 91861 Soap 46

2 Erie 91019 Mdse 27

3 HV 34974 Fnc pipe 36
"""Fnc is very clear"
4 MStL 24848 Flour 44

5 ART 22002 Cabbage 44

6 CStPM-O 58224 Grease 42

7 CMStP 62431 Bucket 20

8 CNW 47730 Imps 35

9 CBQ 116319 Feed 48

10 CBQ 111517 Shgls 42

11 SRL 17908 Meat 39

12 Erie 65051 Dairy 36

13 Erie 111835 Mdse 25

14 Erie 96741 Mdse 28

15 Erie 68030 Mdse 29

16 Erie 98974 Mdse 25

17 Erie 91701 Mdse 28

18 CMStP 712429 Feed 41

19 SRL 19863 Ds Pltry 37

20 SRL 18893 Meat 39

21 CSVX 218 Alcohol 48
"Not sure about the ""X"" it's in lower case, is
this wine?"
22 CRL 5356 Meat 38

23 ARL 13142 Ds Pltry 38

24 ARL 14195 Ds Pltry 36

25 ARL 12704 P.H.P. 45

26 MRLX 9773 P.H.P. 45

27 MRLX 9022 P.H.P. 45

28 PFE 31066 Apples 43

29 PFE 14204 Apples 44

30 NADX 3009 Hams 44

31 CRL 6406 Lard 45

32 CRL 1149 Meat 38

33 CRL 1111 Meat 39

34 CMStP 507941 Flour 47

35 CMStP 89950 Hides 39

36 URT 75506 Meat 42

37 SRL 1276 Eggs 40

38 PFE 19705 Apples 46

39 B4 (Big 4) 45403 Meat 41

40 Ill C 155440 Corn 68

41 SL-SF 160737 Hides 41

42 AT-SF 121336 Flour 44

43 MStL 24136 Flour 42

44 Mo Pac 40140 Plp Brd 35

45 CRL 7704 Meat 37

46 JDPX 1279 Meat 42

47 ARL 14797 Meat 38

48 ARL 10058 Meat 37

49 ARL 15107 Meat 38

50 SRL 17295 Meat 40

51 ARL 14663 Meat 39

52 CRL 1006 Meat 37

53 CRL 5546 Meat 39

54 CRL 5478 Meat 37

55 CRL 7654 Meat 37

56 CRL 7651 Meat 37

57 CRL 5308 Meat 38

58 SRL 1435 Meat 44

59 SRL 19177 Meat 41

60 SRL 16052 Meat 44

61 ARL 14405 Meat 42

62 SRL 16780 Meat 40

63 CRL 1072 Meat 46

64 CRL 7539 Meat 38

65 PFE 30551 Apples 45

66 PFE 37963 Apples 46

67 NADX 6112 Eggs 45

68 SRL 1208 Eggs 42


Re: Kadee #118 top shelf coupler

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

I don't think they are a steam-era design<
I was told "some" shelf couplers would fit my era. I don't remember the
entire dissertation but hopefully someone will jump in here that does.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Kadee #118 top shelf coupler

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

While I know many don't like them I might point out that McHenry has a
AAR standard E shelf coupler. These are lower shelf. They are coming out
with a upper and lower shelf coupler around Christmas.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Kadee #58s Was; BLI Hopper mods. #58s

Richard Dermody <ddermody@...>
 

Denny Anspach wrote:

Many people do not recall that the Athearn coupler boxes were NOT
originally designed for the X2F or but instead were designed for
their own ring-shank cast metal dummy couplers. I do not recall how
many years Athearn sold their new injected molded cars with the
dummies before they started including the X2F coupler instead.
Denny,

I can't remember if the very first Athearn (ca. 1957) plastic kits came with
metal dummy couplers (I want to say no, but can't prove it), but they
certainly had NMRA RP-25 couplers by the time of the first review in MR of
July 1957 and the Athearn ad in the same issue - both mention or display the
NMRA RP-25.

That same issue had a Kadee ad for their new quick adapting couplers for the
"ATHERN" (sic) plastic freight cars. This had the formed bronze spring but
was the straight pin Kadee (pre Magne-Matic) uncoupling pin.

I have some of the Athearn ring-shank dummies you refer to, but I believe
they came with earlier metal kits. The last inclusion in a kit I remember
was with the Athearn (Globe) F-7 dummy units, of the gold-painted, $.98
variety.

Dick


Re: BLI Hopper Mods

Don Valentine
 

Quoting Andy Harman <andy10@...>:

At 08:45 PM 7/14/2004 -0400, you wrote:
And then Denny wrote that the MKDs came out in
1959.

That means I was even tykier than I thought, musta
been about 9 or 10 . . .
I was born in 57, but I don't remember anything with Kadees until about
64.
Up until that time, my dad's rolling stock (metal Athearn, MDC, and
Mantua
mostly) had Mantua hook-and-loop couplers, and mine (Athearn plastic,
some
Mantua/Tyco, AHM, Varney) had horn hooks. I remember when my dad
"discovered" Kadees, and I was fascinated that they made them to fit
different coupler pockets. It seemed like fitting them into my Athearn
cars was a real pain, the bronze spring plate was wider than the box.
At
any rate, Kadees were a luxury.... some stuff never got them at all.
In
72, after my dad died and I built my first 4x6 semi-permanent layout, I
decided to go to Kadees on everything new - pretty much never turned
back
although I probably still have a few oddballs with horn hooks laying
around.

I'm not sure how dad found out about Kadees, or why he never heard of
them
sooner - we always went to the same hobby shop. Maybe they just hadn't
really caught on yet. I just remember him putting them on an MDC metal
box
car and showing it to me, as a "brand new thing" circa 1964... and I
thought it was the coolest thing I ever saw.

Kadees never did conquer all the world, especially in scales other than
HO. Charlie Schwarm, an O-scale old-timer around here who passed away a
few years ago, used nothing but MDC knuckle couplers. I think he may have
even cast his own, long after they were out of production.

And then you guys know about Guilford Mack, of Tiger Valley models -
who still makes his own Mantua loop couplers :-)
Couplers are a funny thing, Andy. I know of at least two Master Model
Railroaders, both now deceased, who were still using Mantua loop couplers
into the late 1960's, in one case, and early 1970's, in the other case.
I think they both had so much equipment they just didn't want to change.

Don Valentine


Re: Not a Fowler

Don Valentine
 

Quoting James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>:


...but a Dominion clone built by ACF for Wabash.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/wab75699asw.jpg

Now that's an interesting car! And it does appear to have all the
characteristics of a Dominion car. I am well aware of the Dominion type
cars on the Soo, Erie and NC&StL but this is a new one. What more can
you tell us about this great find, Dave?

Don Valentine


Re: BLI Hopper Mods

Don Valentine
 

Quoting Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@...>:

Don "older than dirt" Valentine sez:


I can't even
recall the number of what I believe may have
been the first
Kadee coupler box.
This was the one with the small pin that fit
into a slot in
the coupler shank
that, in turn, had two springs with round
inserts inside them
that were
installed fore and aft of said pin. Even a young
buck like
you, Denny, should
remember that one (-: but may have overlooked it
in your post.
Don, 'at's a numbah foah.

I 'member usin' them when I was a mere tyke of 12
or there'bouts. Had the straight pin for the
mechan'c'l ramp, don'cha know?

Well, Schuyler, you know how it is. Somedays it is hard to count
that high. But I gather you mean you were about twelve months when
us old duffers were using the "ought 4's". Thus I'm surprised you
could tell a straight pin from a diaper pin. I know, just annutha
wiz kid! (-:



Don Valentine


Kadee #118 top shelf coupler

David Soderblom
 

Kadee has just come out with a #118 Type F shelf coupler in HO. When were these first used? Were gthey used on other than tank cars?

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD


Re: TP boxcar

Jim Ogden <sjogden@...>
 

Hi Eric,

Looks can be deceiving-- this is not a car rebuilt with steel sides but an ACF builder's photo from 1926 or so. The official T&P folio sheet says it features 1 1/2 X 5 1/2" T&G yellow pine sheathing on the sides. Also note the way the dimensional data is arranged and the use of older style stencilling on the car to help date the photo. The car builders went to great lengths to have the horizontal sheathing appear this way but weather quickly made the wood swell in spite of their good intentions. Give the car a winter in Detroit and a summer in Abilene and the wood grain will be very visible.

However, when similar cars were rebuilt with steel sheathing in the fifites, they got the rounded style numerals (sort of like a skinny version of the UP numerals) which is another tip off to the age of the photo.. Now if there was only a way to fill in the half inch gaps between the boards on the MDC/Roundhouse cars we would be in business.



Jim Ogden



I'll take 'because it's a rebuilt as a steel sided car' for $1000 Mr Trebeck.


Eric

[pass]



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Re: BLI Hopper Mods

Andy Harman <andy10@...>
 

At 08:45 PM 7/14/2004 -0400, you wrote:
And then Denny wrote that the MKDs came out in
1959.

That means I was even tykier than I thought, musta
been about 9 or 10 . . .
I was born in 57, but I don't remember anything with Kadees until about 64.
Up until that time, my dad's rolling stock (metal Athearn, MDC, and Mantua
mostly) had Mantua hook-and-loop couplers, and mine (Athearn plastic, some
Mantua/Tyco, AHM, Varney) had horn hooks. I remember when my dad
"discovered" Kadees, and I was fascinated that they made them to fit
different coupler pockets. It seemed like fitting them into my Athearn
cars was a real pain, the bronze spring plate was wider than the box. At
any rate, Kadees were a luxury.... some stuff never got them at all. In
72, after my dad died and I built my first 4x6 semi-permanent layout, I
decided to go to Kadees on everything new - pretty much never turned back
although I probably still have a few oddballs with horn hooks laying around.

I'm not sure how dad found out about Kadees, or why he never heard of them
sooner - we always went to the same hobby shop. Maybe they just hadn't
really caught on yet. I just remember him putting them on an MDC metal box
car and showing it to me, as a "brand new thing" circa 1964... and I
thought it was the coolest thing I ever saw.

Kadees never did conquer all the world, especially in scales other than HO.
Charlie Schwarm, an O-scale old-timer around here who passed away a few
years ago, used nothing but MDC knuckle couplers. I think he may have even
cast his own, long after they were out of production.

And then you guys know about Guilford Mack, of Tiger Valley models - who
still makes his own Mantua loop couplers :-)

Andy


Not a Fowler

James D Thompson <jaydeet@...>
 

...but a Dominion clone built by ACF for Wabash.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/acfx/wab75699asw.jpg

David Thompson


Re: BLI Hopper Mods

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Regarding Kadee #4's, mechanical style . . . I
wrote:


I 'member usin' them when I was a mere tyke of
12
or there'bouts. Had the straight pin for the
mechan'c'l ramp, don'cha know?
And then Denny wrote that the MKDs came out in
1959.

That means I was even tykier than I thought, musta
been about 9 or 10 . . .

SGL


Re: BLI Hopper Mods

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: newrail@...
[mailto:newrail@...]

Don "older than dirt" Valentine sez:

I
can't even
recall the number of what I believe may have
been the first
Kadee coupler box.
This was the one with the small pin that fit
into a slot in
the coupler shank
that, in turn, had two springs with round
inserts inside them
that were
installed fore and aft of said pin. Even a young
buck like
you, Denny, should
remember that one (-: but may have overlooked it
in your post.

Don, 'at's a numbah foah.

I 'member usin' them when I was a mere tyke of 12
or there'bouts. Had the straight pin for the
mechan'c'l ramp, don'cha know?

SGL


Re: Kadee #118 top shelf coupler

CBarkan@...
 

I think, single shelf couplers may have first come in in the 1950s. Perhaps
that what someone told you.

Chris

In a message dated 7/14/04 10:08:36 PM, atsf@... writes:

<< >I don't think they are a steam-era design<

I was told "some" shelf couplers would fit my era. I don't remember the

entire dissertation but hopefully someone will jump in here that does. >>


Re: Seattle Car and Foundry

eabracher@...
 

The Yosemite Valley RR had several box cars built by Seattle Car and Foundry
in 1906. Anyone know of drawings for these cars other then the one jack
Burgess did for the NG Gazette in 1996? He does not show any underbody details
and needlebeams. These box cars had six truss rods.

eric


Re: Kadee #118 top shelf coupler

CBarkan@...
 

Do you mean double-shelf coupler? If so they were made mandatory on DOT spec
tank cars in 1978-79. I don't know how long thay had been around before
that, but I don't think for very long. I don't think they are a steam-era design.

Chris

In a message dated 7/14/04 9:23:32 PM, drs@... writes:

<< Kadee has just come out with a #118 Type F shelf coupler in HO. When
were these first used? Were gthey used on other than tank cars?

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD>>


Re: Kadee #58s Was; BLI Hopper mods. #58s

Don Valentine
 

Quoting Denny Anspach <danspach@...>:


Don Valentine writes-

....the first Kadee coupler box.
This was the one with the small pin that fit into a slot in the coupler
shank
that, in turn, had two springs with round inserts inside them that
were
installed fore and aft of said pin. Even a young buck like you, Denny,
should
remember that one (-: but may have overlooked it in your post.
Of course, in absolute terms, you are correct, Don, but only when one
refers to the "original" mechanical Kadee couplers of the 1950s (c.
1951?) (:-)

The slotted coupler shanks with the two springs for and aft of a
center post was indeed their original standard (and it continues on
today essentially unchanged as MKD #4). Kadee was only a small player
then, and they in turn adopted this type of coupler shank for their
new couplers from other model suppliers of the same time, the most
well known to us today was Ulrich (MDC too, I believe). If my memory
serves, the Devore and MDC couplers also used this same shank, and
the Varney couplers were designed to be easily adapted to this
centerpost type of box.

Although not abandoning their original box/coupler shank combination,
when Kadee developed their new line of magnetic couplers c. 1959,
they also at the same time developed new the folded sheet bronze
springs that have become so familiar to us today. These were designed
to fit the Athearn boxes, which were significantly wider than the
old Kadee boxes designed for the slotted shanks. Furthermore, the
Athearn boxes had in their center a relatively large round hollow
post could not accommodate the slotted shanks.

The pretty-well-done PFM and Kemtron "universal" coupler boxes were
principally designed to accommodate both the original mechanical and
subsequent magnetic Kadee #4 couplers.

Many people do not recall that the Athearn coupler boxes were NOT
originally designed for the X2F or but instead were designed for
their own ring-shank cast metal dummy couplers. I do not recall how
many years Athearn sold their new injected molded cars with the
dummies before they started including the X2F coupler instead.

I still have a pile of the dummy couplers. Crude, but when painted
with thick paint, they looked good (they were small).

Who continues to use Kadee #4s today? Well those of us who delight
in restoring to new use old cars from the '50s; and an unknown number
of you out there who love the springy slack action that results from
the actions of a string of these cars. However, attempting to insert
a tiny filler piece inside one of the tiny coupler shank springs (to
reduce run-out), and then inserting these springs in place for and
aft of the coupler box post while holding the whole assembly together
is a balancing act not for the faint hearted- and I avoid these
couplers whenever I can do so.

For awhile, Kadee marketed both the old mechanical and new magnetic
couplers side by side. I have a feeling that this lasted only as long
as their inventory allowed.

MKD-4 it is, Denny! Thanks. Not being where all one's "stuff" is makes
it hard to check such things.

Don Valentine


Re: Kadee #58s Was; BLI Hopper mods. #58s

Doug Brown <brown194@...>
 

I missed a few words. :-(


I believe that only one centering spring is/was used on the MKD-4
(Magnetic Kadee Delayed, now just No.4), MK-4 (magnetic but no delay
feature) and the K-4 (mechanical knuckle pin, non-magnetic) couplers.
The K-4 and the MK-4 both used a stiffer spring without the filler
piece. The MKD-4 used a lighter spring with the filler to prevent the
spring from
collapsing under load. The projections on the side of the coupler box
prevented the shank from going deeper into the box. The spring was
located between the end of the shank and the pin in the box. Spring
pressure kept the shank projections against the box projections, keeping
the coupler centered. Some couplers of that time had longer slots and
used two stiff springs that did not center the coupler. I will look at
the early ads to see which way the original worked.

Doug Brown

-----Original Message in part-----
From: Denny Anspach [mailto:danspach@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 3:42 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Kadee #58s Was; BLI Hopper mods.


Who continues to use Kadee #4s today? Well those of us who delight
in restoring to new use old cars from the '50s; and an unknown number
of you out there who love the springy slack action that results from
the actions of a string of these cars. However, attempting to insert
a tiny filler piece inside one of the tiny coupler shank springs (to
reduce run-out), and then inserting these springs in place for and
aft of the coupler box post while holding the whole assembly together
is a balancing act not for the faint hearted- and I avoid these
couplers whenever I can do so.










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Improved Kadee #58

Tim O'Connor
 

This appears to be a drawing of an improved
#58 -- the "gap" has disappeared.

http://www.kadee.com/html/58lgrs.jpg