Date   

Re: Globe Freight Car Models (was Kadee #58s)

Park Varieties <parkvarieties@...>
 

From the "For What It Is Worth" Department:

To the best of my knowledge, Athearn never marketed any of the Globe metal cars under the Athearn brand name.

Globe Models was started in 1943 by Frank Taylor (former editor of Model Railroader) and Carl Traub. Material shortages during WWII kept them from really getting off the ground but their first AAR box car kit with factory painted sides was issued in March, 1948. Reefers, double door auto and stock cars soon followed with their final new product offering being the single, double and triple dome tank cars in 1950. Frank Taylor sold his interest in the business to Carl Traub in 1950 and in July, 1951 Traub sold the Globe Models trademark and product lines to Irv Athearn. At that time a very few kits assembled from existing inventory might have been issued under the Athearn label but unlikely. It is my understanding that the Globe tooling was never run in production by Irv - he just saw an opportunity to eliminate a competitor. You have to be careful about descriptions on eBay; many people do not really know the differences between Globe and Athearn cars. Any comments or corrections of this info. welcomed.
Frank Brua

----- Original Message -----
From: benjaminfrank_hom
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 11:29 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Globe Freight Car Models (was Kadee #58s)


Charlie Vlk wrote:
I don't think there were any "Globe" plastic freight car kits, but I
might be wrong because Irv apparently established the Globe label to
distance the cheap plastic stuff from the standard Athearn cast and
stamped metal freight car line...

Not exactly. Athearn did market some of their metal kits under the
Globe label -

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&rd=1&item=2257198525&category=484

- but they also offered a stock car kit with plastic sides that was
pretty close to UP Class S-40-10. The problem with the early stock
car kits was that the plastic used was dimensionally unstable, and
the sides shrank with age. I've got a couple stock car carcasses
where the sides have shrunk considerably. They did correct this
later (I've got another one of these cars MIB with good sides);
however, this did nothing but feed the fire in the "plastic vs metal"
debate during the 1950s.


Ben Hom


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Re: TP Boxcar

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

On Jul 15, 2004, at 11:04 AM, Beckert, Shawn wrote:

Jerry,

Are you thinking of "Mr. Surfacer" by Gunze? The military
model guys use it to fill cracks and pits after puttying,
but I don't know how well it would fill grooved siding on
boxcars without cracking. It's my understanding you have
to sand and fill repeatedly with it as well. Ugh...
Mr. Dissolved Putty is the stuff you want. Mr. Surfacer is a good primer. When I was building aircraft models, I used to add Squadron Green to MEK to come up with a soupy putty. By the way, I would rather scratchbuild the sides than putty and sand the grooves.

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Re: Kadee #4s (was: Kadee #58s) #4s

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Don Valentine wrote:
"How about when you view a single car from the side, Ben, or the cars
of a train as we usually see them. The effect then is considerably
different, though I cannot dispute your point when a car is viewed
only from an end."

That is true - my point is that using just the #58 coupler isn't
going to solve all of your appearance woes. You need to consider the
appearance of the draft gear, or the entire model for that matter. I
get a kick out of watching people slap #58s into unmodified Athearn
40 ft boxcars and then declare the job done.


Ben Hom


Re: TP Boxcar

Shawn Beckert
 

Jerry,

Are you thinking of "Mr. Surfacer" by Gunze? The military
model guys use it to fill cracks and pits after puttying,
but I don't know how well it would fill grooved siding on
boxcars without cracking. It's my understanding you have
to sand and fill repeatedly with it as well. Ugh...


Shawn Beckert


Re: Kadee #4s (was: Kadee #58s) #4s

Andy Harman <andy10@...>
 

At 01:06 PM 7/15/2004 -0400, you wrote:
How aboiut whejn you view a single car from the side, Ben, or the cars
of a train as we usually see them. The effect then is considerably different,
though I cannot dispute your point when a car is viewed only from an end.
The same can be said about code 88 or other narrow tread wheels. They go to waste tucked under the sill of a modern box car, but in an end view of a hopper car, they make a world of difference.

Andy


Re: BLI Hopper Mods

Andy Harman <andy10@...>
 

At 10:45 PM 7/14/2004 -0400, you wrote:

Couplers are a funny thing, Andy. I know of at least two Master Model
Railroaders, both now deceased, who were still using Mantua loop couplers
into the late 1960's, in one case, and early 1970's, in the other case.
I think they both had so much equipment they just didn't want to change.
If I had a well established layout today, and no plans to do a major makeover, I'd probably stay with Kadee 5's for everything just to remain compatible. But lacking a real layout, and even though I've got tons of rolling stock, only a small percentage of it is really "grade A" in that it is up to my standards and fits my era, I can dabble a bit. But I will end up making a choice at some point - either the operability between different brands and styles of couplers will improve, or one brand will emerge a clear winner. Right now, I'm using 58s but I'm not beyond backtracking. However, once layout construction starts - a year or two away I'm afraid - I will probably weigh my options and go with my best gut feel. If I had to make that choice today, it would be the 58/78 head and whatever draft gear works.

Andy


Re: BLI Hopper Mods

Andy Miller <asmiller@...>
 

I just installed 58's on two new freight cars I am building in my hotel
room, and they do not have the gap! I often build car kits when traveling
on business. Its better than anything on TV.

Regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Schuyler Larrabee [mailto:schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 10:17 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] BLI Hopper Mods




-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Miller [mailto:asmiller@mitre.org]
good looking coupler. The Kadee 58 has a
noticeable gap
between the knuckle and the "fist", which is why
I have
stopped using them.
Andy, I've read (right here!) that Kadee's revised
the 58 so as to reduce the gaposis problem.

I haven't seen them, though, so can't give any
first-hand info.

SGL





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Re: Kadee #4s (was: Kadee #58s) #4s

Don Valentine
 

Quoting benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@worldnet.att.net>:


FWIW, my $.02 on the #58 - I think it's wasted when you mount it in
the "Athearn standard" #5 coupler pocket, because now it really draws
attention to the fact that the draft gear is too wide and shallow. I
feel that the net improvement in appearance is zero.

How aboiut whejn you view a single car from the side, Ben, or the cars
of a train as we usually see them. The effect then is considerably different,
though I cannot dispute your point when a car is viewed only from an end.

Don Valentine


Re: Kadee #4s (was: Kadee #58s) #4s

Joe Binish <joebinish@...>
 

Ben et al,
I have to agree that the 58 in the wide/shallow dg looks silly, but the
closer to correct 58 looks good when coupled to another in a freight train.
We have not noticed any operational problems on my buddy Rich Remiarz's GN
layout, although we haven't opped lately, as Rich keeps tearing up the track
work to make it "better!"
Joe Binish


Re: B&O S1 and S2 stock/sheep cars????

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ben Hom said:
Not on the Class S-1 and S-2 stock cars ("stretch" M-26
conversions). The scheme that Tim describes was applies on a group
of leased 50 ft stockcars converted from rebuilt Santa Fe double-
sheathed auto boxcars. I don't have much more detail on these cars
save a nice color photo of NISX 4026 from Bob's Photos, which shows
this car after its lease on the B&O expired, still in the aluminum
and blue scheme, but with the B&O lettering painted out.
Immediately after the B&O lease ended, the cars were leased to SP for at least two years, but I don't know when that lease ended.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2942 Linden Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


WLE 30000-30049 and 30050-30149

Ted Culotta <tculotta@...>
 

I remember some discussion of this recently, but I don't recall that there was resolution. Does anyone know much about these groups of auto cars? The only photo I have seen shows a small part of 30137. The end is a 5/5/5 Murphy with a large blank area at the top and additions to the ends to increase the width. The roof looks to be a Viking roof.

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Re: Globe Freight Car Models (was Kadee #58s)

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
I don't think there were any "Globe" plastic freight car kits, but I
might be wrong because Irv apparently established the Globe label to
distance the cheap plastic stuff from the standard Athearn cast and
stamped metal freight car line...

Not exactly. Athearn did market some of their metal kits under the
Globe label -

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?
ViewItem&rd=1&item=2257198525&category=484

- but they also offered a stock car kit with plastic sides that was
pretty close to UP Class S-40-10. The problem with the early stock
car kits was that the plastic used was dimensionally unstable, and
the sides shrank with age. I've got a couple stock car carcasses
where the sides have shrunk considerably. They did correct this
later (I've got another one of these cars MIB with good sides);
however, this did nothing but feed the fire in the "plastic vs metal"
debate during the 1950s.


Ben Hom


Re: Kadee #58s Was; BLI Hopper mods. #58s

Charlie Vlk
 

Off topic for STMFC, but the first Athearn flat plastic kits for passenger
cars were, like the F7s, sold under the "Globe" brand. I don't think there
were any "Globe" plastic freight car kits, but I might be wrong because Irv
apparently established the Globe label to distance the cheap plastic stuff
from the standard Athearn cast and stamped metal freight car line (many may
not know, like Varney, was started in Chicago which was a hotbed of early
model manufacturers).
Ye gads, Garth, you've reminded me that I bought NEW kits with ring-style
dummy couplers!!!!
Charlie Vlk


Re: Kadee #4s (was: Kadee #58s) #4s

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Denny Anspach wrote:
"Who continues to use Kadee #4s today? Well those of us who delight
in restoring to new use old cars from the '50s; and an unknown number
of you out there who love the springy slack action that results from
the actions of a string of these cars. However, attempting to insert
a tiny filler piece inside one of the tiny coupler shank springs (to
reduce run-out), and then inserting these springs in place for and
aft of the coupler box post while holding the whole assembly together
is a balancing act not for the faint hearted- and I avoid these
couplers whenever I can do so."

From an operational standpoint, I really liked the old #4s. This
spring design gave it a reliable centering action superior than that
provided by the stamped leaf spring of the #5.

FWIW, my $.02 on the #58 - I think it's wasted when you mount it in
the "Athearn standard" #5 coupler pocket, because now it really draws
attention to the fact that the draft gear is too wide and shallow. I
feel that the net improvement in appearance is zero.


Ben Hom


Re: B&O S1 and S2 stock/sheep cars????

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Bill Basden asked:
"B&O S1 S2 Stock and sheep cars.

I need to know what number series these cars carried during there
life time?

Was the color basicly Box/freight car red, or did they ever run with
a more reddish color like the round roof cabooses?"


Tim O'Connor replied:
"The S-1 series as far as I know, was 113100-113407."

Correct. Additionally, the S-2 series was 114000-114066.


"The cars were painted alumimum or very pale blue, with a blue stripe
with the words LIVESTOCK SPECIAL BALTIMORE & OHIO. Quite striking!"

Not on the Class S-1 and S-2 stock cars ("stretch" M-26
conversions). The scheme that Tim describes was applies on a group
of leased 50 ft stockcars converted from rebuilt Santa Fe double-
sheathed auto boxcars. I don't have much more detail on these cars
save a nice color photo of NISX 4026 from Bob's Photos, which shows
this car after its lease on the B&O expired, still in the aluminum
and blue scheme, but with the B&O lettering painted out.

The S-1 and S-2 conversions had the billboard "B & O" with the small
ampersand plus reporting marks. All of the photos that I have access
to are black and white, but I'd go with the oxide red recommended by
Chris barkan last month. I have never seen any B&O freight car from
the late 1950s - early 1960s painted in their reddish caboose color.

See Richard Burg's "The Last Stand of Stock cars in the East" in the
January 1993 issue of Railroad Model Craftsman for more information
on these plus the late 1950s - early 1960s PRR, Erie, and Wabash
stockcar conversions.


Ben Hom


Re: TP boxcar

jerryglow2
 

I believe Tamyia makes a liquid filler product which I had often
toyed with applying to a model too fill the seams. Anyone ever
thought of or tryed this?

Jerry in Fla

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Ogden" <sjogden@w...> wrote:
..... Now if there was only a way to fill in the half inch gaps
between the boards on the MDC/Roundhouse cars we would be in business.



Jim Ogden


Re: Kadee #58s Was; BLI Hopper mods. #58s

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Dick,

When I was very young, I had an early Athearn plastic kit for a streamlined coach (the sides, ends and roof were all separate). It came with metal ring dummy couplers.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Richard Dermody wrote:

I can't remember if the very first Athearn (ca. 1957) plastic kits came with
metal dummy couplers (I want to say no, but can't prove it), but they
certainly had NMRA RP-25 couplers by the time of the first review in MR of
July 1957 and the Athearn ad in the same issue - both mention or display the
NMRA RP-25.

That same issue had a Kadee ad for their new quick adapting couplers for the
"ATHERN" (sic) plastic freight cars. This had the formed bronze spring but
was the straight pin Kadee (pre Magne-Matic) uncoupling pin.

I have some of the Athearn ring-shank dummies you refer to, but I believe
they came with earlier metal kits. The last inclusion in a kit I remember
was with the Athearn (Globe) F-7 dummy units, of the gold-painted, $.98
variety.

Dick


Re: Kadee #118 top shelf coupler

Tim O'Connor
 

The Type F that existed in the 1950's was a "tightlock"
design. It prevented cars from uncoupling as a result of
vertical motion. I can't imagine how Kadee could make a
good looking Type F tightlock that worked with existing
Kadee #5's. But a shelf coupler is relatively easy when
compared to that!

I don't think they are a steam-era design<
I was told "some" shelf couplers would fit my era. I don't remember the
entire dissertation but hopefully someone will jump in here that does.

Jon Miller


Re: B&O S1 and S2 stock/sheep cars????

Tim O'Connor
 

B&O S1 S2 Stock and sheep cars.

I need to know what number series these cars carried during there
life time?

Was the color basicly Box/freight car red, or did they ever run with
a more reddish color like the round roof cabooses?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Bill Basden

The S-1 series as far as I know, was 113100-113407. The cars
were painted alumimum or very pale blue, with a blue stripe
with the words LIVESTOCK SPECIAL BALTIMORE & OHIO. Quite
striking!


Re: TP boxcar

Brad Bourbina <bbbourb@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Ogden [mailto:sjogden@worldnet.att.net]
Subject: Re: [STMFC] re: TP boxcar
"Now if there was only a way to fill in the half inch gaps between the
boards on the MDC/Roundhouse cars we would be in business."

Eh...putty, sand, repeat. Putty, sand, repeat.
Brad Bourbina
Vice-President MPHS

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